Qantas mainline brings 717’s in house

[Angle of Attack]

Just heard QF have bought National Jet Systems entire 717 fleet from Cobham Aviation.
Dont have a link to a report yet, it just scrolled across on a business report I was just watching.

[RENURPP]

It’s in the AFR

[LostWanderer]

Does that include Cobham pilots as well or are the flying roles going to mainline?

[bangbounceboeing]

Great news for the 717 drivers. Hopefully their seniority carries through onto the mainline seniority list.

[Icarus2001]

How can QF buy a fleet that they already own?

[Jc31]

They aren’t going to mainline. Qantas has bought the operation and will be setting up a new entity just like network sunstate or eastern. Cobham drivers will be employed as a group entity rather than as a contractor. Good news for the Cobham guys and girls!!

[kingRB]

How can QF buy a fleet that they already own?

they bought the AOC

[LostWanderer]

They aren’t going to mainline. Qantas has bought the operation and will be setting up a new entity just like network sunstate or eastern. Cobham drivers will be employed as a group entity rather than as a contractor. Good news for the Cobham guys and girls!!

So there is basically no real changes, Just a different name to operate under instead of Cobham? I’m not overly familiar with their ops so maybe there is more to it.

[blubak]

They aren’t going to mainline. Qantas has bought the operation and will be setting up a new entity just like network sunstate or eastern. Cobham drivers will be employed as a group entity rather than as a contractor. Good news for the Cobham guys and girls!!
Mainline pay & conditions??😫

[Livinthedream320]

Story is behind a Paywall. Can someone cut and paste it here.

[Colonel_Klink]

I wonder what the thought process is behind QF doing this.

I would have thought the way the 717 operation is currently set up is the cheapest way of doing things. It was always easy for Cobham to say ‘No money in the contract, can’t afford pay increases’.

Or is this a brand new world where QF are going to start bringing back all that has been outsourced over the last decade and a half?.😂

[WillieTheWimp]

Story is behind a Paywall. Can someone cut and paste it here.

Clear your cookies/internet data and try again.

[Flava Saver]

Or is this a brand new world where QF are going to start bringing back all that has been outsourced over the last decade and a half?.😂

Haha, imagine that. No more Swissport, Aerocare...all one big happy family post COVID 🤔🤣

[WillieTheWimp]

Qantas brings regional fleet back in-house

Qantas will take the operation of 20 Boeing 717 aircraft running regional routes back in-house with the purchase of Cobham Australia's National Jet Systems.

The acquisition, which the airline announced on Wednesday afternoon, ends 15 years where National Jet Systems had operated the fleet on behalf of regional subsidiary QantasLink.

QantasLink chief executive John Gissing said the acquisition provided it more certainty for the future.

"The B717s provide us with [the] flexibility to service many segments of the domestic market, including regional routes, fly in fly out operations or more frequencies to capital cities. These are the kind of routes where travel demand is likely to recover first [from the COVID-19 pandemic]," he said.

"Importantly, this is a back-office change which our customers won't notice."

It comes after Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce laid out the airline's plans to ramp up its operations after the pandemic, which forced it to fly just 5 per cent of operational capacity (https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p54faa) on Tuesday.

At a media briefing on Tuesday, he said masks and sanitising wipes would be provided to passengers, who will also be encouraged to limit movement around the cabin.

But the middle seat will still be in use as customers begin booking flights again.

"All of these procedures, all of these changes will be in place from the 12th of June, with expectations that we could see domestic travel with border restrictions significantly resuming from July onwards," Mr Joyce said.

The acquisition also follows an internal strategic review of the operations at Cobham, which commenced in the middle of last year.

Cobham Aviation Services chairman Kim Gillis said the company was proud of its partnership with Qantas.

“This outcome is testament to the exceptional levels of service and safety the B717 pilots, cabin crew and support staff have provided to Qantas over the years – I am sure many of them will see this as being brought 'home'," she said.

Neither party disclosed the terms of the agreement. But Qantas said the deal was not material and replaced a 10-year contract for National Jet System's services signed in 2016.

Qantas will also take on National Jet System's employee liabilities, though most have been temporarily stood down like many Qantas employees during the pandemic.

Cobham will continue to operate four freighter jets on behalf of Qantas freight.

[airdualbleedfault]

Great news for the 717 drivers. Hopefully their seniority carries through onto the mainline seniority list.

That is some funny 5hit right there, I haven't laughed so much since somebody said Rex were going to compete against Qantarse and Virging :}

The reality is a captain stubing uniform (if they don't already have one) and staff travel. Then next time anyone in the group wants a pay rise "we'll get Network/Jetstar/NJS/QLINK *enter any name here *to do it"

[hillbillybob]

Great news for the 717 drivers. Hopefully their seniority carries through onto the mainline seniority list.

why would it?

network doesn't
sunnies doesn't
eastern doesn't
EFA doesn't

[Harbour Dweller]

Reuters - U.S. private equity group Advent buys UK's Cobham for $5 billion (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1UK0NA)

Cobham also said it had started a strategic review of its aviation services business in Australia.

It was not clear how the buyout would affect the review.

It appears we have clarity now

[RENURPP]

The reality is a captain stubing uniform (if they don't already have one) and staff travel.

had both of those for quite some time!

[AmarokGTI]

Were any 717 crew on paid sick leave?

[Section28- BE]

'Qantas will take the operation of 20 Boeing 717 aircraft running regional routes back in-house.....'

They outweigh an F-Truck and there is 'only' 20x of them in 'this' Gig/Deal............., could 'one' get another gross/or more of 'em....????

Does, 'anybody' still support the Propulsion & Avionics packages......??? and how does, the pressure-vessel/hull system work?????

Just askin :rolleyes:, got me stuffed- have a really great day.
Rgds all
S28- BE

[Bignose101]

Could you please repeat that in 'english'

[altocu]

Great news for the 717 drivers. Hopefully their seniority carries through onto the mainline seniority list.

Hilarious.

[Ragnor]

Meet your new project sunrise crew when it gets going.

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

They outweigh an F-Truck and there is 'only' 20x of them in 'this' Gig/Deal............., could 'one' get another gross/or more of 'em....????

Does, 'anybody' still support the Propulsion & Avionics packages......??? and how does, the pressure-vessel/hull system work?????

Just askin :rolleyes:, got me stuffed- have a really great day.
Rgds all
S28- BE
Doesn’t matter. They’ll all be flying 320s soon.

[Capt Fathom]

Maybe they’ll call it Impulse Airlines! :}

[normanton]

Great news for the 717 drivers. Hopefully their seniority carries through onto the mainline seniority list.
HAHA!

The end of QF seniority list is not where you want to be right now.

[neville_nobody]

They outweigh an F-Truck and there is 'only' 20x of them in 'this' Gig/Deal............., could 'one' get another gross/or more of 'em....????

Well there's a few being parked by Delta if they want some more. Maybe QF are replacing some 737 flying post covid??

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton1/2020/05/17/delta-will-cut-717-operating-fleet-by-50-67-due-to-covid-19/#4c48d5c452d2 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton1/2020/05/17/delta-will-cut-717-operating-fleet-by-50-67-due-to-covid-19/#4c48d5c452d2)

Any idea what the big picture is here?? How many AOCs does one airline actually need? Good news for empire building management I guess they get to duplicate everything again!

[aussieflyboy]

As was mentioned in another thread, the 717s are the Fokker replacement.

Network will be the 320 operator and NJS will be 717 operator. Expect a bunch more 717s over the next few years.

[Transition Layer]

QF Management following the old expression...never waste a crisis!

As if there wasn’t enough downwards pressure on terms and conditions :*

[RickNRoll]

As was mentioned in another thread, the 717s are the Fokker replacement.

Network will be the 320 operator and NJS will be 717 operator. Expect a bunch more 717s over the next few years.

Perfect. Replace a very old plane with an old plane.

[aussieflyboy]

Perfect. Replace a very old plane with an old plane.

The 717s are early 2000s, same as a bunch of QFs 737s...

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

The 717s are early 2000s, same as a bunch of QFs 737s...

I think he meant the 717s replacing F100s

The Network F100s are early ‘90s builds.

[aussieflyboy]

I think he meant the 717s replacing F100s

The Network F100s are early ‘90s builds.

QF was hardly going to replace them with C Series. The 717 as a replacement makes sense.



Does, 'anybody' still support the Propulsion & Avionics packages......??

Engines supported and still being made by Rolls (Global Express and G5) and Avionics by Honeywell (VIA2000 is in C5 Galaxy and 777)

[601]

they bought the AOC
You cannot buy an AOC.
You have to buy the entity that has been granted the AOC.
If the entity is a natural person, the AOC cannot go anywhere as you cannot buy a person.

[Blitzkrieger]

I think some of my friends on the 717 will sleep a little easier tonight knowing they are bound for new management and a vastly different culture. The 717 has plenty of life in it yet and so do the crews who fly them now.

[industry insider]

Aussieflyboy

As was mentioned in another thread, the 717s are the Fokker replacement.

Ironic really since the Fokkers replaced the 717s in WA a few years ago.

[B772]

The timing of this move could be fortuitous for QF and disastrous for VA. QF could use the the low cost B717 to compete with VA on the East Coast routes charging fares VA could not match. The ACCC would be powerless to prevent this.

[Asturias56]

It's good news for the drivers but it really is a pretty grim aircraft - the design is well over 50 years old and so there's only a couple of Operators left - I don't think they have much passenger appeal TBH

[Capt Claret]

It's good news for the drivers but it really is a pretty grim aircraft - the design is well over 50 years old and so there's only a couple of Operators left - I don't think they have much passenger appeal TBH

The DC9 and 737 both started their life in 1963, so if the 717 is a grim aircraft based on its original design age, so too is the 737.

I think you might be surprised at the passenger appeal.

[LostWanderer]

I think he meant the 717s replacing F100s

The Network F100s are early ‘90s builds.

So what happens to the F100 drivers/717 drivers in this scenario? I can’t imagine them doubling up on crews if it’s a replacement, especially how things are going to be into the future with demand.

Have they actually confirmed no redundancies for anyone?

[cloudsurfng]

My guess is there will be quite a few redundancies from multiple fleets and ranks within the group. This includes 717/f100/320/380/747. How that is done remains to be seen. Alternatively, expect an indefinite period of stand down....much cheaper.

as far as the 717 being in house, it doesn’t really change anything. Your T’s & C’s won’t change, there is no magic path to mainline if that’s what you desire, and it’s no more of a threat to sunrise/320 etc than it was or wasn’t before. If anything, the company will use the 717 pilots as a threat to network and vice versa.

and as someone said...the bottom of any seniority list at the moment is not somewhere you want to be! Although I fear we may soon find out that in this particular covid world, your position on the seniority list matters not...all that matters is what fleet you’re on.

[Mud Skipper]

The Question in my mind is who actually owned the 717's and were the lease payments being made or were they out of pocket.
With Qantas taking direct control, payments are now OK and the back room owner is happy again?

[Ragnor]

My guess is there will be quite a few redundancies from multiple fleets and ranks within the group. This includes 717/f100/320/380/747. How that is done remains to be seen. Alternatively, expect an indefinite period of stand down....much cheaper.

as far as the 717 being in house, it doesn’t really change anything. Your T’s & C’s won’t change, there is no magic path to mainline if that’s what you desire, and it’s no more of a threat to sunrise/320 etc than it was or wasn’t before. If anything, the company will use the 717 pilots as a threat to network and vice versa.

and as someone said...the bottom of any seniority list at the moment is not somewhere you want to be! Although I fear we may soon find out that in this particular covid world, your position on the seniority list matters not...all that matters is what fleet you’re on.

Redundancy off what 320? if you're talking about JQ I very much doubt it, JQ will come back strong over the next 12 months and QF need them to keep any competitor at bay in the leisure market. As for the 717s they have business class? seems like a very good strategic move by AJ as demand for QF seat could be low due to higher cost with the much much cheaper Cobham crew they can still compete in the same market with a 100 seat jet and still offer business class.

[Check_Thrust]

Cloudsurfing:
there is no magic path to mainline if that’s what you desire

I doubt that anyone involved on the 717 at Cobham see this as opening a “magic path” to mainline. I dare say that there would be a fair percentage of crew on the 717 that actually have no desire to move into mainline as they are happy with the type of flying they are currently doing. I’d say the majority of crew on the 717 would be more pleased with the fact that they will no longer be working for a contract company and that their future employment appears to now be more secure than being subject to the fear of losing the contract when it comes due.

Mud skipper:
The Question in my mind is who actually owned the 717's and were the lease payments being made or were they out of pocket.
With Qantas taking direct control, payments are now OK and the back room owner is happy again?

Qantas are the owners / lessors of the 717 (about 50% are owned), not Cobham. Cobham handles the crewing of the aircraft, not the ownership or leasing of the aircraft.

[Chad Gates]

Good for the QJet Boys and Girls as they won’t be thrown onto the scrap heap.
But seriously everyone, this changes nothing, to anybody. Some 717 drivers can sleep a bit easier but that’s about it. There will be no sudden expansion of the fleet and they aren’t going to use them to fly Sunrise, JQ, project Abracadabra or anything else. Seriously. I would doubt any money was even involved.

[Flava Saver]

Quite a fan of the 717, the 2/3 pax config, quietness especially up front etc.

BUT, my biggest concern is how unreliable they have been during 2018/2019. The cancellations on the east coast were ridiculous, bags always being left behind and the blow back from p*#@ed of punters made it known too. What will be done to ensure better reliability going forward? It’s all well and good these gooses saying “right route right plane”.... but no good when it gets cancelled and everyone get chucked on a 737 6 hours later on a recovery flight.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

BUT, my biggest concern is how unreliable they have been during 2018/2019. The cancellations on the east coast were ridiculous

Any machine shown enough neglect will fail. Hopefully the 717 passengers will
be shown some respect and these airframes will be maintained as opposed to kept flying, a very big difference.

[RENURPP]

Quite a fan of the 717, the 2/3 pax config, quietness especially up front etc.

BUT, my biggest concern is how unreliable they have been during 2018/2019. The cancellations on the east coast were ridiculous, bags always being left behind and the blow back from p*#@ed of punters made it known too. What will be done to ensure better reliability going forward? It’s all well and good these gooses saying “right route right plane”.... but no good when it gets cancelled and everyone get chucked on a 737 6 hours later on a recovery flight.
bags being left behind? If that happens, it’s due to baggage handling issues not weight restrictions.

as for unreliable, QF weren’t providing adequate engineering/spare parts. If that doesn’t change then I expect reliability won’t change.

[Pearly White]

Maybe they’ll call it Impulse Airlines! :}
Impulse purchase, more like!

[Air Ace]

Alliance next? Nothing like a Qantas monopoly for Virgin Mk II to compete with.

[Section28- BE]

Ex 'neville...': 'Any idea what the big picture is here??'

Broadening the base, tooling up to go after the feed-in/thinner end of the market/traffic.....??? as mentioned by 'B772'.

Extract here (my bolding):
The B717s provide us with [the] flexibility to service many segments of the domestic market, including regional routes, fly in fly out operations or more frequencies to capital cities. These are the kind of routes where travel demand is likely to recover first [from the COVID-19 pandemic]," he said.

Rgds
S28

[Arctaurus]

Expect more mainline routes for the 717 until the pax numbers get back to some sort of normality

[Flava Saver]

bags being left behind? If that happens, it’s due to baggage handling issues not weight restrictions.

Well Qantas ground staff must be lying to the public then. AND to the staff travellers that get bumped off on flight close out when there’s been in excess of 15 spare seats. Happened on multiple multiple occasions with friends and family I know of. I assume there’s plenty more that have been affected as well.

[Pimp Daddy]

Seriously. I would doubt any money was even involved.

It would be interesting to know who instigated the deal - was it a case of the new Cobham management (the old CEO departed very soon after Advent's takeover) saying to QF "we want out of this" and QF taking the opportunity?

[davidclarke]

It's good news for the drivers but it really is a pretty grim aircraft - the design is well over 50 years old and so there's only a couple of Operators left - I don't think they have much passenger appeal TBH

I think you will surprised. The 3/2 setup is popular with pax and offers a wider seat. The reality is no one want to sit in the middle seat.... no one!

Strategically smart to bring the operation in house. With Delta disposing of their 717s now would be the time to buy say 50 dirt cheap frames. Expand with another 20 and park the other 30 in the desert, now you have cheap spares for the next 15 years.
Make network all 320 and retire the F100 as the 717 can now do the work. Divest in alliance as the accc was never going to let them take control anyway.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Well Qantas ground staff must be lying to the public then. AND to the staff travellers that get bumped off on flight close out when there’s been in excess of 15 spare seats. Happened on multiple multiple occasions with friends and family I know of. I assume there’s plenty more that have been affected as well.

Which locations did this occur at? Canberra in summer is about the only place where this is likely to happen but not as often as you suggest. I can attest to the fact that the 717 crews have been very accommodating to QF staff travellers with jumpseat travel always being available when the cabin is full.

[f1yhigh]

Not trying to detail the thread here, but what aircraft has a better business case between the F100 and 717? I'm curious because I have no idea were people are getting the idea the 717 will replace the network F100s from.

[airdualbleedfault]

When the 71 was introduced at NJS, at some of the North WA strips in summer it was basically an 80 seater, but I wouldn't have thought that would be the case on the east coast (pretty rare)

[RENURPP]

Well Qantas ground staff must be lying to the public then. AND to the staff travellers that get bumped off on flight close out when there’s been in excess of 15 spare seats. Happened on multiple multiple occasions with friends and family I know of. I assume there’s plenty more that have been affected as well.
all I can say is that some one is stretching the truth.
All 717s on the east coast have the engines converted (chip changed basically) every summer which means no significant restrictions on weight. Maybe they bulk out on occasions, but gee that would be rare and I can’t imagine it happening on Canberra Brisbane sectors. The pax mainly carry briefcases.

[RENURPP]

Not trying to detail the thread here, but what aircraft has a better business case between the F100 and 717? I'm curious because I have no idea were people are getting the idea the 717 will replace the network F100s from.
Dreaming. Guess work, pprune talk.

[Icarus2001]

but what aircraft has a better business case between the F100 and 717?


Well the 717 has 25% more seating capacity for around the same costs. 125 vs 100 passengers.

[wotsitdoin]

I think this is a clever move. Qantas would have probably wanted to get the 717's up and going again soon to get the domestic market rolling. But how do you justify to all the stood down mainline pilots that contractors flying Qantas planes will be earning a pay packet before them? Answer, bring them in house.

[crosscutter]

Advent International, the private equity firm who acquired Cobham put the sale sign up on the Australian passenger operation at the start of this year. Qantas ‘won’ the process, and probably they were the only bidder. QF have a strategic place for Cobham (right aircraft, right route 🤮).

Qantas did not pursue a takeover...Cobham was up for sale and unless QF came to the party, Advent would possibly shut down the operation.

Covid-19 recovery will mean the 717 will continue to have its place in markets previously flown by the 737. Nothing has changed. What did change was the possible risk of a new owner or more likely no owner. Qantas now retain control. They had no choice.

[LostWanderer]

I think this is a clever move. Qantas would have probably wanted to get the 717's up and going again soon to get the domestic market rolling. But how do you justify to all the stood down mainline pilots that contractors flying Qantas planes will be earning a pay packet before them? Answer, bring them in house.

That is what I was wondering about, is there some assurance that the 717s won’t be flown by the stood down and potentially redundant mainline drivers of soon to be retired or long grounded fleets? None of the articles seem to be very clear on what sort of “entity” will actually fly them in the future.

As you alluded to, I can’t imagine it will be sunshine and rainbows at QF when the senior mainline guys who could be out of a job are given marching orders and the new kids on the block start getting paid those Qantas dollars. But unprecedented times are upon us so anything is possible at this stage, hopefully no one gets shafted here. I’d be assuming a totally seperate company within the group on a seperate seniority list is the only option to keep the operation cheap and the wages down.

[RENURPP]

That is what I was wondering about, is there some assurance that the 717s won’t be flown by the stood down and potentially redundant mainline drivers of soon to be retired or long grounded fleets? None of the articles seem to be very clear on what sort of “entity” will actually fly them in the future.



Time to don our tin hats folks,,

[crosscutter]

The new Cobham is a subsidiary. There is no basis for displaced Mainline pilots to then displace subsidiary pilots. It won’t happen. There just can’t be recruitment into a lower cost subsidiary whilst a Mainline pilot is retrenched. If any group needs to don tin foil hats, it would be Jetconnect. I can’t see how they can operate one flight until all Mainline 737 pilots are back on line, although it’s far from clear cut.

[Pimp Daddy]

That is what I was wondering about, is there some assurance that the 717s won’t be flown by the stood down and potentially redundant mainline drivers of soon to be retired or long grounded fleets? None of the articles seem to be very clear on what sort of “entity” will actually fly them in the future.

The transaction and ongoing operation is no different to when Qantas bought Network. Qantas have purchased the Cobham business unit "National Jet Systems" which holds the B717 AOC and employs the crew who operate them.

There will be some jiggery pokery behind the scenes excising any relevant CAMO/Operations/Safety/Quality functions from shared departments within Cobham.

What happens going forward with Cobham Engineering support at various bases will have to be figured out as well.

[Going Boeing]

I hope that Qantas finally spends some money restoring the interior of the B717’s - they’ve been looking very shoddy for a long time.

[Lapon]

Wow alot of paranoid conspiracy theorists here :rolleyes:

Nothing is going to change with the new ownership structure that couldn't have happened before anyway. Qantas will use the aircraft however they want and will pay the crews directly vs via Cobham.

A win for the 717 crews but but otherwise ops normal.
Qantas were already calling the shots on the operation and the crew all had QF staff numbers previously.
Any tardiness in the operation is entirely QF doing as they own majority of the frames, determine the spares inventory, even determine the crewing levels and run the day of operations, I believe they even did half of the maintainance having taken most of it from Cobham years ago.

For all the naysayers, the only people with the potential to loose from this are some back.office and management types in Adelaide, even so it would be reasonable to assume many will be absorbed into the rest of the Cobham operation .

[Lapon]

That is what I was wondering about, is there some assurance that the 717s won’t be flown by the stood down and potentially redundant mainline drivers of soon to be retired or long grounded fleets? None of the articles seem to be very clear on what sort of “entity” will actually fly them in the future.

As you alluded to, I can’t imagine it will be sunshine and rainbows at QF when the senior mainline guys who could be out of a job are given marching orders and the new kids on the block start getting paid those Qantas dollars. But unprecedented times are upon us so anything is possible at this stage, hopefully no one gets shafted here. I’d be assuming a totally seperate company within the group on a seperate seniority list is the only option to keep the operation cheap and the wages down.

The articles are pretty clear it's the existing 717 crews. Common sense would back that up incase you were wondering whether QF would get rid of a bunch of trained crews to do what..... train new ones all over again?
NJS have thier own EBA and operate as a subsidiary, there is no ability to have people move in displace anyone.
Playing the subsidiaries against each other is also going to be no different to the past, infact Cobham 717 crews did pretty well out of thier last EBA.
In one guise or another NJS has been working for Qantas for about as long as Qantas have operated 737s so no need for panic.

[Section28- BE]

So- have, a 'Tin' Hard-Hat to hand..............., for want of a 'term'!!!!!

Question (e.g. what Mr 'Lapon' is talking about/has said).- 'Whom' may 'own' these 'fcukers' (all the way back, since Gerry and Geoff, had a meal/feed....together), and then/therefore, 'whom' per-chance- 'may' have 'had' a commission to operate the fcukin things.............. of times, 'recent'...?????

Just a question, all good/Ta
Rgds
S28

[RENURPP]

National Jet Systems started operating the BAe 146 Australian Airlines in 1990
National Jet Systems was sold to Cobham in 1999.
in late 2019 Advent bought Cobham, which includes NJS.
recently, (like 2 days ago) we discovered Qantas bought NJS, a small pRt of Advent/Cobham.

NJS began operating BAe146 for Australian Airlines (now Qantas).
Qantas made the decision to change from 146 - 717 in 2005.

Through those changes pilot conditions were determined by their current agreement.the conditions will be as per your current agreement. You may notice a slight change in format on your payslip, nothing else, it will stillsay National Jet Systems!

Initially AWA now the current EBA.
NOTHING has changed for the employees except the owner Advent - Qantas and hopefully a little more security. You were ALWAYS employed by NJS!

People dreaming they will be fast tracked to mainline are doing just that “dreaming”.
the best template is Network. Look at their progress and you will probably get an idea of the NJS progress, minimal at best.

In the future, yes maybe changes. COVID may/will create the biggest opportunity for more or less aircraft.

As far as conditions are concerned, look at your current agreement, that’s what you agreed to with NJS. You are still employed by NJS,

as for other entities taking NJS jobs, can’t happen.

[Lapon]

National Jet Systems started operating the BAe 146 Australian Airlines in 1990
National Jet Systems was sold to Cobham in 1999.
in late 2019 Advent bought Cobham, which includes NJS.
recently, (like 2 days ago) we discovered Qantas bought NJS

NJS began operating BAe146 for Australian Airlines (now Qantas).
Qantas made the decision to change from 146 - 717 in 2005.

Through those changes pilot conditions were determined by their current agreement.
Initially AWA now the current EBA.
NOTHING has changed for the employees except the owner Advent - Qantas and hopefully a little more security.

People dreaming they will be fast tracked to mainline are doing just that “dreaming”.
the best template is Network. Look at their progress and you will probably get an idea of the NJS progress, minimal at best.




In the future, yes maybe changes, no different to before. COVID may/will create the biggest opportunity for more or less aircraft.

Well put RENURPP.

The only significant change to career prospects will be the ability to apply for QF group positions as an internal applicant vs an external for those interested in moving.

[aussieflyboy]

Well put RENURPP.

The only significant change to career prospects will be the ability to apply for QF group positions as an internal applicant vs an external for those interested in moving.

NJS were already considered internal applicants due to the effect on the 717 operation when QF hired too many NJS crew. You’ll find now however a lot of NJS crew on the hold file won’t be interested in Mainline anymore.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Well put RENURPP.

The only significant change to career prospects will be the ability to apply for QF group positions as an internal applicant vs an external for those interested in moving.

if qantas mainline are hiring again before 2025 I’d be very surprised (that goes for most group airlines too).

[Lapon]

NJS were already considered internal applicants due to the effect on the 717 operation when QF hired too many NJS crew. You’ll find now however a lot of NJS crew on the hold file won’t be interested in Mainline anymore.

I only know from friends caught it in. They were never able to apply as internals, only as externals.

With all of the past hiring I would assume most who wanted to move have had a shot anyway.

[Asturias56]

The DC9 and 737 both started their life in 1963, so if the 717 is a grim aircraft based on its original design age, so too is the 737.

I think you might be surprised at the passenger appeal.

Maybe it's just me but when someone says DC-9 (or B -717) the picture that comes to mind is dark, crowded and uncomfortable. Maybe I flew on too many in the USA

[Lapon]

Maybe it's just me but when someone says DC-9 (or B -717) the picture that comes to mind is dark, crowded and uncomfortable. Maybe I flew on too many in the USA

Is that not every short haul airline pre-covid?
The welcome lack of a middle seat on one side was the only discernable difference I had ever noticed.

[RENURPP]

Maybe it's just me but when someone says DC-9 (or B -717) the picture that comes to mind is dark, crowded and uncomfortable. Maybe I flew on too many in the USA

have a look at these pics. There are some that include the business class seats. The second link is the flight deck. It’s a little more modern than a DC-9 which is the 3rd link.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=cabin+qantas+b717&client=safari&hl=en-au&prmd=isnv&sxsrf=ALeKk00i9pFt3FPHvU8BMXcXOVPVx5C5XA:1590098020186&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjRr5rd-MXpAhWBaCsKHTJVCxIQ_AUoAXoECBUQAQ&biw=414&bih=719&dpr=2#imgrc=Np7gSzW7kSRzSM

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=qantas+b717+cockpit&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari#imgrc=dVyUhpc8B9JwNM:
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=dc-9+flight+deck&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari#imgrc=R9dzyxt3gl-sNM:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/815x653/33230d03_ce43_479c_ba71_07e42692ec0a_03ec561bcc27d2897a0565b 5971153c0bfa5bd9c.jpeg

[Brakerider]

Eastern should’ve been flying these Jets in-house since their arrival. Another knife in the back to the long serving Link pilots, many of who had plenty of jet time pre 1989.

[Lapon]

Eastern should’ve been flying these Jets in-house since their arrival. Another knife in the back to the long serving Link pilots, many of who had plenty of jet time pre 1989.

Why is that? Why, Easterns and not Sunnies, or mainline?

As RENURPP said the entire thing was an evolvution from the old National Jet using thier own 146 fleet.
If you think think someone else 'should have' had the operation you must know something the powers that be dont, or it is nothing more than sentiment you speak with.

[RENURPP]

Many of the ex Sunstate/Eastern and MAINLINE guys are flying “these jets”. They applied for and were successful, good on them.
i struggle with the idea that you join a company that operates Dash 8’s then complain, whinge and moan when you don’t get to “fly jets”.
if you want to fly jets, apply to a company that operates them.
if you want to drive trucks apply to a trucking company.
NJS took ownership/lease of their first 146 on the 23rd June 1990.
Eastern Australia Airlines became a wholly owned subsidiary in 1991 moving up to Dash 8’s.

[JoeTripodi]

Cue the Qlink cadet bedwetters expecting to “get some jet time before joining Mainline” with this announcement.

[Southern handler]

all I can say is that some one is stretching the truth.
All 717s on the east coast have the engines converted (chip changed basically) every summer which means no significant restrictions on weight. Maybe they bulk out on occasions, but gee that would be rare and I can’t imagine it happening on Canberra Brisbane sectors. The pax mainly carry briefcases.

From the ground in CBR yes it does happen on the CBR BNE route in summer with some regularity. There are still a number of frames whose engines are not setup for hot summers on the east. Bulk out is rare but having weight issues and freight and staff off is a regular thing.

And when they break they often break for quite some time line a day or two

[Lapon]

From the ground in CBR yes it does happen on the CBR BNE route in summer with some regularity. There are still a number of frames whose engines are not setup for hot summers on the east. Bulk out is rare but having weight issues and freight and staff off is a regular thing.

And when they break they often break for quite some time line a day or two

You will have to take that grievance up with Qantas as they pay/save on the derate decisions. Im sure Boeing/Rolls have designed the thing with more than enough power, but whether that is utlised is upto QF.

Ditto the breakdowns, if you want to sit and wait days for parts instead of carrying spares inventory then it is a QF commercial decision and not a failure of mr Boeing.

[cloudsurfng]

Perhaps a history lesson on how the initial flying was ‘awarded’ all those years ago when link/sunnies were in line would be relevant to brakeriders comment. Skullduggery at its absolute worst.

note this is not meant to be an attack on current 717 pilots.

[j3pipercub]

Feel free to provide said lesson cloud.

[QuarterInchSocket]

definitely interesting to wake up to, dare i say, good news, amidst the covid turmoil. fwiw, hopefully this acquisition gives some degree of certainty to the staff it impacts and the mainline operation. I do agree, from operational perspective, business as usual. setup will be like the many other subsidiaries of qantas group ie. network, jetconnect, jq qantas group owned but self managed etc
the rationale behind the purchase would make interesting discussion. whether its been in the pipeline for a while, or whether joyce has decided to act aggressively in an attempt to deter virgin 2.0, or whether he just needed the cobham fleet capability in his response plan to covid. I think obviously all of the factors at least have played their part rather than one specific reason.
Personally, i think is good news. Hopefully, no redundancies, and if there are, hopefully they are forecasted out a year or two from now.

[Icarus2001]

or whether he just needed the cobham fleet capability in his response plan to covid.

They already had the fleet capability, they owned and still own the fleet, now they own the AOC and company as well. It may have more to do with what Advent want than what QF want.

[Lapon]

They already had the fleet capability, they owned and still own the fleet, now they own the AOC and company as well. It may have more to do with what Advent want than what QF want.

Couldnt agree me with this comment, there is nothing to suggest it was something Qantas wanted, it is just as likely Advent forced Qantas hand.

NJS had already been sold to Cobham, who was then sold to Advent, and now it's been 'sold' to QF.
I cant see how anybody thinks this will lead to any radical operational changes that wouldnt have been possible before.

[Blitzkrieger]

I imagine the worst case scenario here would be that things only get better. The EBA will be honoured in its entirety devoid of the rubbery interpretations and thus the pilfering will stop. QF will also see the operation in its unfiltered state instead of the rosy, sanitised version of the Titanic like mass that it is/was.


Good luck all!

[R.Cruizo]

Hope the 717 troops get new management & new management pilots. A long overdue culture change required.

[Left 270]

Had the misfortune to fly on one of these sh1tboxes from CNS to BNE earlier this year. They are an embarrassment to Qantas. Walked out to a dirty, smelly antiquated piece of crap, and paid a premium price for it. Meanwhile, next bay across is a shiny new Virgin 738, operating the same route. Less money, waaaay better product.

There is no IFE. Wifi was unuseable. The service in economy was a small packet of biccies and a coffee that was best described as vile. Served by a sullen FA who wanted to be anywhere but where she was. At least it was on time and we made it alive.

This is a terrible product, for which Qantas should be ashamed. I've seen far better in mainland USA, and their product is awful too! My only thought is that they bought it for a fire sale price, or its April fools day. They're the only two possibilities.

I pax regularly in the 71, as with most other offerings.
71 is quiet up the front, IFE is via your own device, doesn’t have WIFI, it’s more roomy, better seating and I’d be very surprised to hear that you preferred the cabin service from the QF 73s.