Are you a fully fledged ATPL holder and yet don't have a job?

[Jetheat]

How many Wannabees are there who have a full JAA or CAA ATPL, and yet still looking for their first job?

If so, how long have you been waiting?

How many hours do you have?

Why do you think you haven't got a job yet?

Most pilots wait approximately 2 years before landing their first job.
I've been waiting 20 months!
How about you?

[ronchonner]

i wait only 3 weeks for my first paid job.
only loosers wait more than 6 months!
it s plenty of job in africa, usa, ...
you can wait now all your life to get a job, because no one is going to give a job to someone staying at home with only 300h and expired licenses!
so, instead to count the months you are waiting, you should kick your ass out and take the first job you find ,even if mom is not here for your little british cookies.
and what tell us you are a good employee?, did you work for a company before, what kind of experience do you have, do you fly passenger, cargo, night...what do you do to keep your IFR current?
it s plenty of guys like you, a bunch of pretentious guys dreaming to fly a big plane...next time i see a guy like you in my cockpit, believe me or not, you will clean my plane and the WC before to touch anything in my cockpit!we want PILOTS, not a bunch of idiots with JAR licenses.

no offence, ok?

[PropsAreForBoats]

"no offence........"?

[Dublinflyer]

Who is that person, every time I see a posting from him he is telling us how great he is or how much of a loser everybody else is.

Get a life pal.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Don't worry Df,

It's just Ronny winding himself up into a tizzy for a triumphant 100th post. We like to keep him around as a reminder there is a shallow end to the gene pool.

[Captain Spud]

Ron is obviously a wind up merchant and is taking the p*** ....--------- Isn't he???

[Whirlybird]

Who cares? (Is there a smiley for a big yawn?)

------------------
Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

[RVR800]

I reckon Ron has missed his vocation

He should be in comedy

A pilot's version of Alan Partridge

It's his arrogance and disrespect that make
him ( in these politically correct days )
such a hoot.

He always so angry .. Why ?

[Capt Wannabee]

What the hell are British cookies??

Has anyone else noticed the large varitation in flying hours, type of aircraft flown and sexuality mentioned in all of ronch's posts?

Do you think that really he is jealous and wants to have a JAR licence, actually just any old licence!

No offenze unk?

[This message has been edited by Capt Wannabee (edited 25 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Capt Wannabee (edited 25 April 2001).]

[Girt_bar]

Why don't you guys just ignore him??

Your reactions are exactly what he is fishing for.

[VFE]

We are just waiting to see Ronny go http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Lagoon/9161/animations/explodes.gif

No defense OK? (yes the spelling error was intentional!)

[socrates]

Ronchonner.

You appear to have NO respect and NO idea of what is involved in obtaining a flying position in the UK or Europe. Your over inflated ego does you no favours. Either put-up or shut up. Your posts ARE offensive, poorly written and immature. That very large chip on your shoulder would be better employed by McDonalds, rather than displaying it in a most unprofessional manner on this web site.

Your total ignorance of the job situation and what is involved in those circumstances only serves to demonstrate your own ignorance. Perhaps you would do better to learn exactly what is involved in obtaining a job ‘over here’ rather than procrastinating about how easy you find it in USA/Africa. If you are that wonderful then I suggest you ‘kick your ass’ over here and demonstrate how it’s done.

I know many pilots here in the UK, many employed and others not so fortunate; the difference is very little. At the end of the day it comes down to luck, but people do not moan about their misfortunes, they just move on to the next opportunity. As for the ridiculous comment about wishing to fly a ‘big plane’ nothing could be further from the truth. Pilots want to fly and that means ANY aircraft.

In my opinion you are a fool and should be removed from this forum, but that would not be in the ‘spirit’ of this web site. If you cannot make a constructive comment then please don’t comment at all.

Offended ? I hope so.

Perhaps you will now sit back and reflect on have your peers perceive you and if you want it spelled out to you in a language you can understand then maybe words of one syllable would be more appropriate.

[tunneler]

Just ban the ****er?

[G SXTY]

Glad to see Ronnie is still around – I assumed he’d been thrown off weeks ago.

Judging by the attention-seeking immaturity, incoherence and wildly fluctuating testosterone levels evident in his posts, I’d say he’s going through the early stages of puberty, and needs our help and understanding at this difficult time.

I reckon Ronnie is worth keeping in, if only to remind the rest of us just how well adjusted and articulate we all are. (A quick search though his 100 gems would cheer anyone up on the darkest of days).

Sorry your question’s been hijacked, Jetheat. I’m still at the student stage, but a year or two scratching around for that first job seems pretty commonplace. How do you manage to keep motivated / current / pay the bills etc?


------------------
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit pruning.

[Lard Beast]

Heya Tunny, how're they hangin' mate?

Don't knock ronny too much. I doubt whether he's even been to Africa and done anything he shoots his mouth off about.

As for the original question, I just got a job flying the heavy metal (finally) after years of stuffing around with the small stuff. No problems there as far as it goes but at 6'4" I really need a bigger flight deck.

[Strangely Brown]

Frozen ATPL + all the bits
400+ Hours
500+ Letters
200+ Phone Calls
12 Months on
Still flying a desk

[wysiwyg]

SB - I love the name! All the best with the job hunting.

[Strangely Brown]

Thankyouverymuch

[EI 666]

Ok... he/she/it is American.... need I say more?

Probably wears a stetson too :-D...

Oh yes, and learn to spell, and form syntactically correct sentences too. Is that pretentious enough for you?

[Ja]

someone puts up a serious topic and the response is bollocks

as regards ronch' then, as a public forum, if his/her's response offend then ignore rather than debate!

------------------
VNE or nothing

[madflyer]

I agree with Ja. Ignore ronch' (or have a good laugh and then ignore him/her) and let's get back to Jetheats Q!!!!

('Fraid I've got a long way to go yet but I'd be interested to know what others are doing in a position I'm going to be in, in a few years time).

------------------
MF

[Jetheat]

I had a serious question and Ronw@nker decides to turn it into a circus!

Back to the question,

After 20 months of waiting, I have managed to land me a job starting on Tuesday. Can't wait to get started.
So what I can say is, if you hang on and continue applying, you will strike it lucky also.
After 20 months of waiting, you start to think that you are flogging a dead horse and there isn't much hope. You start to give up and want to blame it on something else.
I really thought I would be the last person in the world to land a job since I've had bad luck throughout my life, so why should it change now. However, I kept flogging the (alleged) dead horse and suddenly there is light at the end of the tunnel.

How did I keep myself motivated?
Well, talking with other PPruners and listening to Pilot talk on the scanner. Also, I kept daydreaming of flying in the Right Hand seat of a passenger airline-This kept the dream alive. I didn't do much flying coz I didn't have enough money. I'm sure many of you are in the same situation. In all sincerity, all I can say is keep trying.

However, try this next time you land an Interview. It worked for me!
When you have an upcoming date for an Interview, don't tell anyone! No family or friends. Keep it to yourself until passing the Sim check. It seems supernatural and it defies logic but it worked for me - So no harm in trying it yourself.
If it works for you, send me an email and let me know of your success.


http://www.jetheat.co.uk/turbine.jpg

[ronchonner]

who is the idiot spending a fortune in UK schools, who is the idiot asking money to dad and mom for a UK flight school?
wo is the idiot who believes he will fly a big jet cus he has an frozen ATP with some ridiculous hours of twin engine,who is the idiot who don't want to learn any foreign language? who is the idiot thinkink to be sponsored by an EU airline?who is the british idiot?
I m not the idiot, I work hard, I fly often and i did nt paid all these crapy EU schools,I m an FAA pilot!!!

[G-LOST]

Yeah yeah yeah. You're my hero. XXXXX

[socrates]

hey, Grumpy,

Get the message:

Either show respect or..

G O A W A Y

[Loony_Pilot]

Ronchonner sounds exactly like a very disgruntled guy on my CAP509 course who buggered off to the USA after slagging everything CAA/JAA related into the Ground...

Wonder if its him....

[Luke SkyToddler]

* 1,041 hours, 25 minutes of flying time
* $NZ144,000 debt (about £45,000, but enough to buy a pretty substantial house where I come from!)
* 6 years, 1 month and 14 days from the first entry in my logbook (with a few breaks from flying in between times while I worked to save yet more cash)
* Two frozen ATPL / IR / FI ratings from two different countries
* 14,000 miles distance between myself, my family and most of my friends (for the past two years anyway)
* £721.28, my pay slip for the last MONTH's hard work at my instructing job ...
* 1 and a 1/2 shoe boxes full of rejection letters (too many to count!)
* 1 airline interview so far, which I'm the first to admit I made a total pig's ear of - never again!! (That rejection letter was by far the worst - so near and yet so far!)
* 0, the approximate percentage chance that I'm gonna give up on this until I'm surrounded by the shiny tube of my dreams!

Ronchonner, illiterate, pig ignorant, foul mannered baboons like yourself would be a disgrace to the profession - if for a single second any one of us thought you were part of the profession at all. Get back to your sad little deckchair and binoculars at whatever airport is unfortunate enough to have you hanging round its' runway, and don't bring your lame fantasies into this forum ever again! I meet enough w@nkers and dreamers at work without having them filling up my favourite website as well.

Congrats Jetheat on cracking the first job, keep a seat warm for me :)

[Dizzy]

Such a top quality question - such a poor response from us all by allowing Ronch to disrupt an otherwise cracking post???
Let's just have a laugh at Ronch by having a laugh at his posts, then let's still deal with the original question - please!
The people that actually answered the question - well done.
I don't have anything like an ATPL so I can't comment with authority - sorry!

"I am going to enjoy this!"

[rolling circle]

Small point of order, Mr Chairman, you can't obtain a JAA ATPL without getting a job (unless, of course, you have the money to pay for 500 hours flying on a multi-crew aircraft).

As for the idiot ronchonner, did anyone else notice that his french accent has suddenly slipped? Don't be too hard on the poor guy, he has just failed his fifth attempt at the FAA Commercial and is feeling very hurt. The fact that the rest of us could have done it while eating breakfast just makes it all the harder to bear.

As to the question wo is the idiot who believes he will fly a big jet cus he has an frozen ATP with some ridiculous hours of twin engine,who is the idiot who don't want to learn any foreign language? who is the idiot thinkink to be sponsored by an EU airline?who is the british idiot? I think its probably good old ronch......Don't you?


[This message has been edited by rolling circle (edited 26 April 2001).]

[Tor]

Congratulations JetHeat! (shouldn't the heat come out the other way of your engine though? :))

---

Please bear with me, but I'm going to try to reason with Ronchonner

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">who is the idiot spending a fortune in UK schools, who is the idiot asking money to dad and mom for a UK flight school?</font>

Ronchonner, I'll give it a try reasoning with you. First you must understand that not all Europeans are from UK. Secondly, didn't you have to pay for your licenses initially? Who paid the bill is in my opinion irelevant. Those who are fortunate enough to have wealthy parents, who wishes to sponsor thier young ones, lycky for them! The rest of us either borrowed the money, and have to pay every month, or has worked hard to save money for the education.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">wo is the idiot who believes he will fly a big jet cus he has an frozen ATP with some ridiculous hours of twin engine</font>

It's not my perception of the posts here that anyone expects to go directly to big jets. A turboprop would do - infact any paid job would do.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
who is the idiot thinkink to be sponsored by an EU airline?who is the british idiot?</font>

People hope to be sponsored and doesn't take it for granted. I would say that you are a bigger idiot if you don't give it a try - wouldn't you? The worst thing that can happen is that you infact get a sponsorship.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
I m not the idiot, I work hard, I fly often and i did nt paid all these crapy EU schools,I m an FAA pilot!!!</font>

Didn't you pay anything to obtain your FAA license? Or did you win it in the lottery?

Looking forward to your reply.

[This message has been edited by Tor (edited 26 April 2001).]

[purple haze]

knowing me knowing you ronchonner ahahhh
go home and have a wa*nk, you might change your attitude.

[This message has been edited by purple haze (edited 26 April 2001).]

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Ronwotsit,most days I smile when I see you posting.This post is not the place for your Rantings,for once wish the guy good luck.Jetheat has got where we all want to be and for that I say well done and enjoy!
Most of us cant go anywhere else to train as we would like a JAA licence.But having said that no one asked me to train to do this,no its not fair but like Jetheat we just have to get on with it...Jetheat have a whale of a time.

------------------
GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!

[schuler_tuned]

rumpchomper reminds me of the old black and white ww2 flicks- "berlin calling, hello tommy, why do you keep fighting, you know it's futile, we are the best, blah , blah, blah de blah......"
thing is, it's like the attention starved child that makes the adults laugh once, and then does it again and again, each time less appropriate and each time more annoyingly humourless. so hey , chomper, lay off the smarties (that's eminems in the big ole us of a),and try playing a different tune, your just too one dimensional.
jetheat- NICE GRAPHIC!
(rump, the blokes name was Whittle, English, you know)

[Capt Wannabee]

Have you got the grin off your face yet Jetheat??

How many hours did you have when they invited you for interview? Did you go integrated or self-improver?

Don't do too many barrel rolls on your first day!

[This message has been edited by Capt Wannabee (edited 27 April 2001).]

[socrates]

Now then;

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">‘who is the idiot spending a fortune in UK schools, who is the idiot asking money to dad and mom for a UK flight school?
wo is the idiot who believes he will fly a big jet cus he has an frozen ATP with some ridiculous hours of twin engine,who is the idiot who don't want to learn any foreign language? who is the idiot thinkink to be sponsored by an EU airline?who is the british idiot?
I m not the idiot, I work hard, I fly often and i did nt paid all these crapy EU schools,I m an FAA pilot!!!’</font>

In this case it appears that for once the FAA stands for Foul And Abusive.

By the way, the ‘idiot’ referred to is most probably now employed by BA, BMI, Airtours, SAS, KLM as they all spend money on sponsorship in the UK, whilst parents also provide financial support. I guess they all fly big jets (look mummy, ooo!) because they have got the minimum UK/CAA/JAA qualifications, though whether they speak foreign languages is a reflection on their additional abilities, not a pre-requisite to a flying career.

Yup, it’s a shame that the actual content of this thread has been lost courtesy of the ranting of this degenerate. Jetheat, congratulations on your success. I second Capt Wannabe’s thoughts; let the rest of us know what your experience level is, it will act as a form of moral support for those still searching.

[P. Jacobsen]

Who said what, when and where, is not so important. What's important is to take all those without a job serious when they ask for good advice. We've all been there, but unfortunately some of us tend to forget. I'm not sure it will put those of you without a type rating on track, but visit www.cockpitforum.com. (http://www.cockpitforum.com.) Check out some of the Crew Leasing Agencies listed. It may turn into something. I know for a fact that there are operators out there giving type ratings when and if they find "the right person". All the best.

[Jetheat]

Well, what can I say. I still haven't got the grin off my face, I'm smiling all the way to the skies.

Self Improver or Modular?

Well, here is my story if you are the least bit interested. I have completed an ATPL in the US as well as in the UK. (I can assure you that the ATPL had nothing to do with me being hired, nor did my hours)

I saved up £14,000 in the UK by slogging my ar$e off doing 12 hour shifts continuously for two years. Sold off everything. Got the 14k and said to my mum "See u in three years time". Off to sunny Florida I went.

As I was dedicated to learning how to fly, I spent all my time studying and flying. I became an Instructor within 8 months and by that time I had about $1000 left in my account. The 14k went towards flying and living. The best thing about flying in the States was that my 14k went a long way.
As soon as I had my Instructors licence, I started to instruct and make money. As we all know, an Instructors pay is never enough; I went to the local supermarket and got a job as a Camera Development person. This allowed me to pay for the rent whilst I built up my hours towards gaining an FAA ATPL.

As soon as I got the FAA ATPL, I returned to London, England after 3 long years. (Boy, I was glad to be back).

Now I had no money and yet I had to find a way to convert my FAA licence to a CAA one. How on earth are u meant to do that without borrowing money.
This is where luck came in: I found a job paying roughly £200-£300 per day.
So I worked on the weekends and on weekdays whenever I could whilst I started my ATPL Ground Studies at the London Guildhall University.
Of course, the studies were 5 times harder than what I had learnt in the States. The English CAA (now JAA) exams are very stringent. It wasn't just a case of memorising the book and then giving your test the next day with a 99% pass (as in the States).
In the UK, it was pure hardcore studying. You have to know your material. This is what diffrentiates the men from the boys, The amount and type of knowledge in your head!

However, after about 7-8 months, I had all the ground work out of the way and now it was onto the flying.
The scariest thought about flying in England is the cost. Especially if you fail and have to redo the whole exam again with more Instruction. The Seneca hire is approximately £4 a minute - About £300-£400 per flight. What happens when u are so near the exam and your money runs out? This was the predicament. Luckily, I passed before the money ran out (Thank God). I don't know what I would have done otherwise.
Well, after passing all the Ground and Flight exams, I was absolutely elated. I was now ready to tell all the airlines that I possesed a CAA and an FAA ATPL giving me the best of both worlds. How wrong was I?

I found out the hard way. Nobody cares if you have an FAA ATPL. They hardly care if you have a CAA one either. I believe its more about the type of time you have.

After I passed, I sent a perfect CV to virtually every single airline in the UK. Hell, I even bought a great presenter and sent the CV in that, incurring more expense.

Sadly, letter after letter, rejection after rejection, I didn't get anywhere.
I kept asking myself, I have 1550 hours, whats wrong with these people? Are they blind? Even people with less hours are being called up.
Eventually I got a break and I was called for an Interview with Aer Lingus.
Unfortunately, do to my actions or attitude at the interview, I was refused the job.
So I promised myself from that point onwards that, if ever I had another interview, I would conduct myself with the highest integrity and that I would ace the Interview.
I kept waiting and waiting. Nothing at all. Nothing.
After waiting for another 13 months, (13 MONTHS), I got called to City Flyer.
I aced the Interview but they said that I could only proceed to the Sim stage if I went and renewed my IR. This was another huge expense I had to go through. However, since flying is what it's all about, I went and renewed my IR for a cost of £1200. (Exam alone was £800). When I went for the Sim Check, I could tell, the Sim Examiner's behaviour, was not favourable to a young first timer. On top of that, I made a mistake in the sim by turning the wrong way which of course, led to my failure.
Not giving up, I continued my search and lo behold, after 2 months, another interview with KLM uk.
This time I decided not to tell anyone about my Interview until I had a result from the airline.

I passed the Interview and I passed the Sim Check 2 weeks later.

At that time, I was the happiest person in the world. All your training and efforts flash before your very eyes. 3 years in America, 1 year in UK training/conversion and then 20 months of hard frustration and waiting. This was the moment I had been waiting for, for so long. 4 years of hard work had just paid off! Imagine how you would feel. So now, I'm waiting to start training for the F50.Starting Tuesday. Relaxing till then.

I can't thank KLM uk enough for giving me this opportunity and I definately wont let them down coz this is what I've been wanting to do all along. And now that I have it, I wont let go!

http://www.jetheat.co.uk/turbine.jpg
(The bleed air pipes extend from the compressor and therefore the heat is coming from the correct end!)

[VFE]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us Jetheat. What a thoroughly fascinating story. You deserve everything your hard work has brought you and I hope you have a fantastic career. Your story, like so many, is an inspiration to all us wannabes.

All the best with your new job and here's to your future! :)

Best wishes, VFE.

[Slipslide]

Wow - that's determination!!!!!!

Just a question: £200-300 a day? (sales I take it) Could this be the worlds first OTE actually met.

[Low_and_Slow]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">I was absolutely elated. I was now ready to tell all the airlines that I possesed a CAA and an FAA ATPL giving me the best of both worlds</font>

I'm somewhat curious on this. The FAA has no multi-crew requirement, the JAA does (500 hours I believe). I was under the impression that the CAA also had the requirement (but what do I know, I'm a Yank :) ) Do they not have the multi-crew requirement? If they do, I find it hard to believe you got 500 multi-crew as an instructor with 1500 hours http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

Either way--good luck with the new job!!!

-me

[Mr Magoo]

Nice one jetheat but I'd take a SERIOUS look at your engines notes again and get your logo redrawn mate!!

I passed my IR this week and have just begun sending out letters and CV's - I wonder how many PFO's I'll get before the first serious job offer.

Oh, by the way that RonChon creature was slightly amusing at first but now needs the MAFF team setting on it for an appointment with the bolt gun!!

Magoo

[HollyDog]

Well done mate.

[Deep Float]

Guys, just ignore the ronchonner. After all, with a FAA license, he cant possibly be serious. Ask him ANY CAA/JAA exam question and he'll be running for the door.

Back to the question:
-UK license with 250 hrs (OATS, but no help to expect from there), since June 1999.
-Current licenses and and recent ME/IR experience (doesnt come cheap at over 250 quid an hour in the UK).
-Over 350 letters, 2 failed selections and for the rest negative replies, if at all.
-work as Flt Ops Controller for Corporate outfit but no chance there due insurance policies.

But at 34, can you still expect something?

I'd like to hear from other over-30's what their luck is like....personally, I'd fly anything, anywhere, and probably for free..

good luck to everyone

[tailscrape]

Jetheat WELL DONE!!!

A mate of mine went for the UK interview and said it was a bit of a nightmare, so well done. BRAVO!

A note for Ronchonner:

It is well known that the F in FAA stands for FAKE. TW?T.

Anyway, I am lucky:

Ex OATS, 1999-2000.

250 odd hours.

Just going on line on a Boeing.

I realise I am the luckiest bloke in the world. I was never that brilliant, but got through.So, to everyone it does happen if you are lucky. I wrote the letters and got all the PFO's you can think of and then suddenly BANG......it was all done and dusted in a matter of days. Right palce right time I think. No more than that.

So good luck everyone. I hope you all get the success you deserve.

And to you Ronchonner I hope you get the success you obviously have missed out on so far. Oh, and enjoy flying your 152 wherever you are.

(Sorry to everyone else for that rather arrogant last comment-but I think it is well directed.)

[rolling circle]

Low_and_Slow - There is no multi-crew requirement for issue of a CAA ATPL but, since nobody with any sense is going to put a CAA ATPL holder into the LH seat of a multi-crew aircraft unless he's got reasonable experience in the RH seat, it doesn't make a lot of difference.

In reality, a CAA ATPL without multi-crew time has about the same value in employment terms as a JAR CPL/IR with ATPL Theory credit. Except, of course, that the CAA ATPL is valid only on UK registered aircraft whereas the JAR CPL/IR is valid, in theory at least, on aircraft registered in any JAA member state.

[Intersection]

I've been waited a good six monthes for a first job, my mates still waiting it's just a case of luck i guess.

I look at it like this for every aircraft theres gotta be 4-6 pilots :)

[This message has been edited by Intersection (edited 28 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Intersection (edited 28 April 2001).]

[Jetheat]

VFE, Hollydog, Tailscrape - Thank you very much for your kind words.

Mr Magoo, this is the end part of an RB211 engine (The front part is missing) and so the picture stands correctly.

Sideslip, You hit the nail on the head. £200-£300 per day was in sales. Met the OTE.

Thanks to all who helped along the way. There are a lot of people who give out useful information.
Thanks again.

[Mr Magoo]

If the front end was missing then the engine wouldn't be working!!

QED

Magoo

[low flyer]

Deep Float - I tried contacting you but your eMail icon didn't work. I'd be happy to exchange tactics on finding a job - I'm in the same boat as you, by the sound of it - perhaps you could try mailing me.

[rg_vr6]

If we could all walk into a job after training, maybe the banks would give us wannabies a loan to fullfil our dream of becoming pilots......ah well, one day my pretty...............

[Cruise Alt]

Jet Heat. Well done. It is hearing news like this that keeps me going on those bad ‘let’s give it all up’ days.

And good advice not telling everyone about the interview. I was very lucky and managed to get a bmi interview a couple of months ago. I told every man and his dog I was so excited. Then spent the day before the interview in the local hospital with bad food poisoning. Foolishly I went ahead and needless to say the following letter was the all too familiar 2nd class one and I had to face al the how did it go questions. Guess It's my 'ego writing cheque's my body can't cash'.

Deep Float / Low Flyer

Sounds a familiar story. I am an OATS spring 99 grad. 31 and still looking. Email me at [email protected].

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif Cruise http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

PS as for ronchonner. He is just the internet equivilent of the nutter who sits next to you on the bus!



[This message has been edited by Cruise Alt (edited 16 May 2001).]

[Jetheat]

Just completed my first 3 weeks at KLM uk.

I must say, this is great.
I start Sim training coming week, cant wait!