Has Anyone Flown Commercially Lately?

[Buster11]

Have any of you taken a commercial flight recently? How were things like social distancing, masks, queuing, carry-on bag checking, departure lounge seating, boarding and on-board seating handled? I need to take a Ryanair flight to Dublin from Gatwick in the next month or so.

I heard the other day that, based on 2 metre spacing, an average boarding queue for a 747 would be around one kilometre.

[Load Toad]

Not since getting back from trips to Bangladesh & Thailand very early January. The Wife got back from China on 27th January. Since then 0. My Lad will be flying back to HKG from UK early in June & will be in self-isolation for 14 days.

If you fly - get used to the inconvenience and given this viruses ability to infect - wear a mask, take your alcohol wipes and avoid eating/drinking (apart from what you can carry on yourself). I'd want an empty seat next to me if possible.

[Tarq57]

Seems a bit bloody pointless to apply social distancing in the queue if you're then sitting half a metre or less from maybe 4 other people.

[Dan Dare]

Airport queues and security lacked logic or sense before C19. Don’t expect them to apply any now. You will sit shoulder to shoulder with a dirty stranger, but lip service will be paid in the security queue to keeping separate from the person ahead though you will be shoulder to shoulder with the oncoming snake ahead in the queue. You may be wearing a face mask, but you and your bags will be manhandled by security who may be wearing gloves, but the same gloves as when they touched the super spreader in front of you. Travelling will put you at additional risk and travellers will have to take responsibility for their own C19 safety because the airline, airport and other passengers won’t.

[Booglebox]

Have been flying Lufthansa short-haul through Frankfurt. Quite well organised with middle seats always empty. And always an A320NEO!

[aloominumtoob]

I'm probably stupid and thick, no doubt someone will be quick to jump in and tell me. However....... what is the use of an empty middle seat if everyone is breathing the same recirculated air?To thicko me, a bit like the Emperor's New Clothes. Elucidation, por favor.:confused:
alt

[PAXboy]

Individual choice seems to be the order of the day. Currently, I would only fly if it was a family life/death circumstance and I would seek out the best mask I could before departing.

[Mr Mac]

Buster11
I have flown short haul to and from Germany often via various transit points as direct route was not option. Masks gloves and sanitiser, no food on board. Queuing was not really an issue as so few people in terminals and or security (I have been on a Gulfstream with more passengers !).
On board separation in seats, with crew also masked etc so not a great experience. Temp checks on arrival (but not in UK). The quarantine which maybe imposed at the end of this month in UK may preclude my commute though, this being the UK Govt things may change when Boris wakes up Friday or next week. Our legal dept are currently checking on quarantines, as we have a multinational staff who all travel to a greater or lesser degree from Germany .
There maybe some airport testing available (like Austria) in which case that maybe an option. I must stress that the only people who are travelling appear to be Business related, tourism is not on the radar yet, though it is being discussed here judging by holiday requests starting to creep in ! If Boris goes through with quarantine with no airport testing option then I will be based in Germany for sometime !! Long haul maybe more of a challenge, and at the moment I am due out to Texas in June and Tokyo so we will see how that goes. Hope that helps, and gives you a picture of what to expect, but on the plus side as I said limited queuing and security even polite at Manchester.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

[Booglebox]

airport testing available (like Austria)
Works very well indeed!

[Denti]

Have been flying Lufthansa short-haul through Frankfurt. Quite well organised with middle seats always empty. And always an A320NEO!

They have since dropped the empty middle seat rule though, but require the passengers to wear a mask at all times. Sure, if there are not many passengers on the plane, they will keep the middle seat empty anyway.

[b1lanc]

Last time I flew was late January from East Coast to Las Vegas - less then 50% on each flight. Routed through Detroit, normally there are 4 departure boards full at 6pm local. Only two were filled and of the few pax in both DTW and LAS, many were wearing masks despite not knowing what good they may or not be at that time. I will fly if the company tells me to but reluctantly. I'll also pick my airlines and flights carefully. It doesn't help that United and Delta both pulled out of my close airport. That leaves American and Southwest with the airport authority saying flights are 10-20% full and the airport has dropped 95% pax since a year ago.

Recent 100% packed American 737 flights in the news haven't helped their case. Frankly, it amazes me that certain routes (NY-FL) are so full. Nothing is open on either end.

[rog747]

RYR's MOL said this week that his flights will go out full - @Buster11

Pax will need to wear masks and RYR will supply a mask if they do not have one.

Have fun!

[Booglebox]

CDG and FRA getting busier this week. I would guess double the number of pax / planes.

[PAXboy]

This in the Uk today: The Guardian newspaper. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/flying-long-haul-during-covid-19-air-travel-has-never-been-stranger)

Flying long haul during Covid-19: air travel has never been stranger

[Asturias56]

"Pax will need to wear masks and RYR will supply a mask if they do not have one."

Only £ 49.99 if you don't buy one in advance..................

[PAXboy]

Las Vegas' McCarran International Airport 'first' in the US to add PPE vending machines
[The Independent] Graig Graziosi The Independent15 May 2020
c/o Yahoo (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/las-vegas-mccarran-international-airport-195847764.html)

[b1lanc]

Las Vegas' McCarran International Airport 'first' in the US to add PPE vending machines
[The Independent] Graig Graziosi The Independent15 May 2020
c/o Yahoo (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/las-vegas-mccarran-international-airport-195847764.html)
Right next to the one-eyed bandits no doubt. Wonder if you have to win the PPE?

[WingNut60]

RYR's MOL said this week that his flights will go out full - @Buster11


What? Both of them?

And yet just last night I received an e-mail from Ryanair instructing me that my flight on 24 June had been cancelled and how I could lodge a claim for full refund.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1536x511/ryr_2e319b3a3be529907bdbcfbd3c475bc001bd97d2.jpg

[Load Toad]

I'm probably stupid and thick, no doubt someone will be quick to jump in and tell me. However....... what is the use of an empty middle seat if everyone is breathing the same recirculated air?To thicko me, a bit like the Emperor's New Clothes. Elucidation, por favor.:confused:
alt

There are videos you can search for that will show you how much extra viral load you'll get if you are sitting next to an infected person. You really want to be minimising your exposure anyway you can

[edi_local]

I had 5 flights in late February/Early March and since then haven't flown. I went out to KUL,via IST with a day stopover in IST, where they were checking temperatures on arrival and departure. Other than that it was all pretty normal. IST was fairly quiet, but then again it wasn't normal peak time and that airport is huge so always seemed quiet to me anyway. A few people wore masks on the flight to KUL, but no more than usual. I noticed staff in masks and gloves at KUL as well as temperature checks on arrival. Cabin crew from my flight were wearing masks walking through the terminal at KUL. A few days later I flew to SIN and it was a bit different. KUL was more or less desserted, lots of cancelled flights to China on the boards. Lots of questions about my travel history and a lot more people wearing masks, but being a flight within Asia, that is quite common to see. I popped a mask on so I didn't look out of place, really.

At the time restrictions on entering SIN were only in place for those who had been to China or who were showing symptoms, neither of whch applied to myself, but temperature checks and travel history questioning were in place at the border. My flight back via IST was cancelled due to an infected passenger being on the plane the night before, so the crew had potentially been exposed, the aircraft flew back to IST empty and I was rerouted on EK, which was a pretty full 777 on both legs and barely anyone wore a mask. SIN was not as quiet as was being reported at the time, I still found it to be a pretty busy terminal, with temperature checkers everywhere, whereas DXB was notably much quieter than usual. I think I had temperatue checks taken while in transit in DXB, but upon arrival into GLA, absolutely nothing was done, not even a single poster about coronavirus was displayed. My flight arrived at the same time as one from Tenerife, which at the time was one of the hotspots. The difference between what I'd seen in other arirports and what I saw at GLA was asotnishing, it was clear the UK wasn't taking anything seriously.

[wiggy]

FWIW with reference to the above the SIN situation changed very rapidly in Feb/March, certainly for flights to/from the UK/Oz..

Start of Feb it was temperature checks in the terminal..that was pretty much it..

8 weeks later no passengers were being allowed off the aircraft, (i.e; transit pax bound for Oz stayed on board), crew, who had to diesembark for flight time limitation reasons, were locked in at airport hotel...

Yes, the UK approach was (and perhaps still is) astonishing.


.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Yes, the UK approach was (and perhaps still is) astonishing.

To the best of my knowledge, the UK have been the only country to do NO checks on incoming passengers since the epidemic/pandemic was declared. It is most puzzling as to why they felt it was unnecessary to do at least a rudimentary control. I took several flights at the end of March and was checked all the way through until arriving at at LHR to nothing. Zero. Zilch.

[edi_local]

To the best of my knowledge, the UK have been the only country to do NO checks on incoming passengers since the epidemic/pandemic was declared. It is most puzzling as to why they felt it was unnecessary to do at least a rudimentary control. I took several flights at the end of March and was checked all the way through until arriving at at LHR to nothing. Zero. Zilch.

They weren't even asking people where they had come from or giving out leaflets. At EDI at the same time there was a few monitors showing what to do if you had symptoms and had returned from certain hotspot areas, but again, no enforcement or checking anyone had actually been anywhere. I remember calling the NHS helpline when I got back from SE Asia just to see if I had misunderstood the lackluster rules and if I had to actually do something but no, just tell them if I felt ill...by which time I could have spread it, although I was already keeping my distance from others to be on the safe side.

I think perhaps Belarus was doing very little, if anything as well, so we were in good company!

[edi_local]

FWIW with reference to the above the SIN situation changed very rapidly in Feb/March, certainly for flights to/from the UK/Oz..

Start of Feb it was temperature checks in the terminal..that was pretty much it..

8 weeks later no passengers were being allowed off the aircraft, (i.e; transit pax bound for Oz stayed on board), crew, who had to diesembark for flight time limitation reasons, were locked in at airport hotel...

Yes, the UK approach was (and perhaps still is) astonishing.


.

Yes, I went to Singapore at just the right time. It was still somewhat busy with tourists but even though it was my first visit I could tell the city was nowhere near what it's normal level would otherwise be, which was in a way, quite nice. I kept an eye on local news and within days of returning home I could see that the situation in Singapore started to go downhill quite rapidly, I was very lucky to get out before long haul cancellations really kicked in and serious disruption started.

[Vendee]

What? Both of them?

And yet just last night I received an e-mail from Ryanair instructing me that my flight on 24 June had been cancelled and how I could lodge a claim for full refund.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1536x511/ryr_2e319b3a3be529907bdbcfbd3c475bc001bd97d2.jpg

I got the same for a return flight starting 20th June. The 20 working days all looks positive until you read it carefully. The 20 working days starts from when your refund request is approved. That will probably take six months.

[pax britanica]

reading this and with some of the serious warnings about economic conditions in many parts of the world when this has died down (I wont say 'when its over') are airlines going to get hit with a double whammy. In pas recessions-particularly early on one of the first things corporations do is to cut travel costs. typically this involves travel approvals, across the board and banning or severely restricting business class travel a really big revenue source for airlines like BA and LH to name two.

this time around however there si the issue of Video /remote conferencing which has moved on in great strides from the 2008-10 era and so i wonder if there will be a permanent reduction in demand for Biz class which will have a serious impact on any 'rebound'. I think Ryanair have an easier recovery path than BA because even as passenger numbers climb again revenues are going to lag behind.

I hope this isnt the case, because the airline industry is already a risky enough investor proposition and indeed source of employment . I also-perhaps altruistically to believe that face to face contact (not a great phrase in these times) is not just important for business but for promoting global understanding and tolerance at a time when far too many politicians are seeking to do the exact opposite.

[edi_local]

I can't see business travel making a comeback in any serious way for a long time, if at all. Not only have we seen companies move to video conferencing pretty much scores the board, but working from home is now being made a permanent thing for many firms too. There won't even be offices to travel between in alot of cases!

Economy class will likely fare better as people will still want to travel for leisure and will be budget conscious now more than ever. Of course many use business class for their personal travels too, but is that market enough to prop up the Airlines that rely on the forward cabin being busy?

[Mr Mac]

Edi local
Do not get hung up on video conferencing, and even working from home. Currently there are limited options but when the option is available you find face to face meetings come back. I have seen this happen post 9/11 and in HK post SARS. Yes it takes time, but we are human not machines, and yes this has had a bigger impact world wide than those two events. However I have used video conferencing since the late 80,s and I have been told I am quite good at this, but I still have been asked to clock up many a thousand mile to see people and projects in person. Also I have flown on a regular basis over the last 3 months in Europe, and would say that the A/C are now starting to get fuller as various countries ease their lock down. Do not be so quick to write things off, humans are quite adaptable.

As for the working from home this may be more of an option for some, and indeed there maybe a balance of so many office days re working from home days. I would point out that from my own experience, and that of my staff, that we have found that if anything WFH leads to longer working days, as people either start very early with others working later, and some doing both. In this regard it maybe not quite so good for people, though admittedly the commute is far shorter, but I am unsure if it is healthier for the individuals involved. As a business we have many individuals and teams working world wide on their own, and we are discussing implementing some form of limiting the hours people are on line, as a monitor of some individuals on line work is showing some extremely long hours being worked and we are concerned about this. It is a balancing act.

Kind regards
Mr Mac

[edi_local]

Mr Mac,

I hope you are right and I am wrong. I just think that in addition to the all the People saying they are loving home working and video calls (whether they mean it or not)
​​​​​​, there are also many who are going to use this as an excuse to permanently curb flights for environmental reasons. I wouldn't put it past some governments to raise air taxes to more or less force people to stay where they are. It will be dressed up as a mix of doing it for the environment, the "we can't go back to how things were" mindset and the fact they will want to promote "staycations" to boost their own economies.
​​​​

[b1lanc]

Mr Mac,

I hope you are right and I am wrong. I just think that in addition to the all the People saying they are loving home working and video calls (whether they mean it or not)
​​​​​​, there are also many who are going to use this as an excuse to permanently curb flights for environmental reasons.
​​​​
Couldn't agree with you more. CNN just hired Greta as part of their COVID response coverage team. I have home-officed for decades in the past. I've also commuted cross country weekly to go to work for years. There are pluses and minuses. I work a lot more hours at home much to the better half's chagrin. In the past two months, I am more efficient at home then I have been at work in large part because 92% or my company is teleworking by mandate. There is nobody for me to go visit. I have unlimited access to capabilities that I can't get at work due to corporate IT policies. That's an indictment on corporate IT ineptitude more than anything else. The company has adapted and been forced to open up. There will be people who will find this attractive for the long term - I know some. But the majority of folks I work with believe they are safer at work then they are at the local grocery store and can't wait to get back.

I am also travel banned for the unforseeable future but since I am considered mission essential was told I'll be traveling cross country in mid June. Given my age, I'm not enthusiastic about that.

What I don't like is I feel like I've retired and if this is retirement, I guess I'll keep working but only if I can go into work. Who knows though, in the long term, I might benefit from this. I make time for daily treadmill whereas before my time was spent sitting on my butt driving to/from work. I eat healthier meals. I get more sleep. A lot less stress. That will be attractive to some. I'd say that 50/50 on who will want to continue or return to the old office.

[Adambrau]

I recently (a week ago) flew EWR-ORD-IAD-LGA on UA. The worst part is boarding because while they claim they board from the rear to the front, they still boarded military/GS/1K/F class pax first then everyone else by row number. Once boarding was complete we departed and few people left their seats. But boarding showed no social distancing is possible. My take was that flying is a miserable experience currently. But people are doing their best. I had to go for my SO's father's death - I just had to go. I work at JFK for a European carrier and I would not travel for any non-essential reason.

[b1lanc]

I recently (a week ago) flew EWR-ORD-IAD-LGA on UA. The worst part is boarding because while they claim they board from the rear to the front, they still boarded military/GS/1K/F class pax first then everyone else by row number. Once boarding was complete we departed and few people left their seats. But boarding showed no social distancing is possible. My take was that flying is a miserable experience currently. But people are doing their best. I had to go for my SO's father's death - I just had to go. I work at JFK for a European carrier and I would not travel for any non-essential reason.
Doesn't surprise me about UA. I don't fly them at all - that after being a loyal 1K flier and only flying UA since the 1950s. Personally, I am also of the same opinion. Unless non-essential, I will drive.

[redsnail]

I have airlined recently. First trip was London Heathrow to Stockholm Arlanda. T2 with SAS. Terminal was pretty quiet and only 2 shops open. Masks were available if you needed them. Which you did to board and fly. Social distancing was a challenge during the boarding and disembarking process. No service, just a bottle of water.

Return was Stockholm Arlanda to Heathrow via Frankfurt with Lufthansa. More shops were open in Arlanda but only 1 terminal was operational. Ironically, it was here where social distancing etc was being enforced. Masks required during boarding. Only water on the first leg. 2nd leg, water and a sandwich. Frankfurt wasn't nearly as busy as it usually is, a few more food shops were open.

Heathrow is now checking temperature on arriving passengers.

I believe Luton Airport will have vending machines with masks available for purchase. Heathrow, they were free.

[Interested Passenger]

i see the governments plan for people entering the country and self isolating for 2 weeks is as well thought out as the policy of asking illegal immigrants to report to a police station.

self isolate when get to where ever it is you are going, via public transport of course.

[SpringHeeledJack]

For me not being able to eat/drink on a typical EU flight sector would be no hardship tbh, and it has the benefit (if you've timed it well) of not having to use the lavatory onboard, thus reducing possible infection areas. The airlines, no doubt, would miss the revenue, but the CC would appreciate the reduction in workload and risk of infection as well. Most passengers other than diabetics etc don't need to eat on short sectors, it's mostly a Pavlovian response, Board Plane-----> Consume.

[Mark in CA]

What? Both of them?

And yet just last night I received an e-mail from Ryanair instructing me that my flight on 24 June had been cancelled and how I could lodge a claim for full refund.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1536x511/ryr_2e319b3a3be529907bdbcfbd3c475bc001bd97d2.jpg
Good luck with that. We applied for a refund in mid-March and have yet to receive a decision, although we did get this message in late March:

Due to the high volume of flight cancellations due to COVID 19, we are experiencing an unprecedented high volume of requests. We are currently working through the backlog and ask that you please bear with us.

Please do not resubmit your request.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Yours sincerely,
Ryanair Customer Services

[Paul Lupp]

Dare I say it..... Ryanair and customer services.... the ultimate oxymoron ?

[clareprop]

Given the propensity of some passengers to go into nuclear melt-down when confronted with regulations while flying, I predict there will be some juicy in-flight social media videos popping up over the next six months.


Major U.S. Airlines Announce Increased Enforcement of Face CoveringsPassengers who do not wear face coverings could have flying privileges revoked

WASHINGTON, June 15, 2020 – Today, Airlines for America (A4A), the industry trade organization representing the leading U.S. airlines, announced that its member carriers will be vigorously enforcing face covering policies, putting rigor around rules requiring passengers and customer-facing employees to wear facial coverings over their nose and mouth. This is one critical element of the multiple layers that A4A carriers are implementing to mitigate risk and protect passengers and crew.


Mask Enforcement When Flying (https://www.airlines.org/news/major-u-s-airlines-announce-increased-enforcement-of-face-coverings/)

[Mr Mac]

Clareprop
I do not think it helps over there with a certain Presidents attitude, and to a degree his followers views on masks.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

[clareprop]

Clareprop
I do not think it helps over there with a certain Presidents attitude, and to a degree his followers views on masks.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

Completely agree. Popcorn is in and I'm sitting back waiting for the show to begin:)

[clareprop]

And so it starts.... not a regular a******e. A special one with a point to prove.


Coronavirus: American Airlines passenger removed for not wearing mask (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53091426)

[Mr Mac]

Clareprop
Did you manage to get the Popcorn heated through ! It does not take long in the US for those "special ones" to emerge, though I did think it would have taken a little longer than 24hrs between our post and the AA incident.
Cheers
Mr Mac

[clareprop]

Did you manage to get the Popcorn heated through !

Large box, Mr Mac..large box.

[Asturias56]

" My take was that flying is a miserable experience currently"

I don't think its been fun for 20 years........................

[Mr Mac]

Asturias56
I think, to a degree, it depends where you sit on the A/C, and the airline. I have been flying long haul, man and boy, and I would say that given the comforts of an EK/SIN/LH A380 (my chariot of choice) v BCAL 707 (the chariot of my youth, from South America) I would take the 380 every time, though would not mind being a youth again, to do it all over again, with a few small changes of course ;)
Cheers, time for beers with staff in Munich in a bar tonight , yipeee !!!!
Mr Mac

[Asturias56]

I'd agree Mac - a BCal 707 from Kano was an interesting experience - or a 4 stop flight SQ-AMS in a DC-10

but you had more room, there was a lot less hassle - no security, no long check ins, planes that were rarely full and critically, the staff had status and saw you as a valued customer (I absolve NW Airlines & BEA from this)

Now we're handled like pigs at the abattoir

[PAXboy]

The day 'Personnel' became 'Human Resources'.
The day 'Passengers' became 'Customers'.
The 'new improved' soap powder is not usually better the 'old rubbish' one it replaces.

Name changes are almost always bad. When companies or their departments get renamed under the guise of promotion and such - it is almost always the opposite. The same is apparent when you get an email from a carriers Frequent programme that announces (in large letters) of the new benefits and advances - then the small letters tell you the truth.

[Asturias56]

The day 'Personnel' became 'Human Resources'.
The day 'Passengers' became 'Customers'.
The 'new improved' soap powder is not usually better the 'old rubbish' one it replaces.

Name changes are almost always bad. When companies or their departments get renamed under the guise of promotion and such - it is almost always the opposite. The same is apparent when you get an email from a carriers Frequent programme that announces (in large letters) of the new benefits and advances - then the small letters tell you the truth.
:D too true

[Mr Mac]

Aturias56
Kano was not somewhere I got to until the 1980,s when I spent some time in Lagos for my sins, so was on DC10 then, but still BCAL, I always felt sorry for the female cabin crew in the tartan uniform in the humidty down there. I do agree with you on space which came home to me when I walked around Duxford about 10 years ago and had a look in the VC10 interior with Mrs Mac. Both of us were surprised at the room in economy, I must have forgot the space we had, or I have got bigger !! Anyway as you say at least we do not have the multiple stops anymore.
Paxboy
Would not disagree with anything you said.

Kind regards
Mr Mac

[Asturias56]

Ah- when I flew from Kano it was a 707............... and space was fine - it as the passengers who made it ..."interesting"....

[Mr Mac]

Asturias56
The joys of Africa ! I once witnessed all the passengers on a regional 737 run around the A/C. and the winners got seats and got to fly, all due to overbooking. I was on a Swissair A/C just having a pre taxi drink at the time, and the different approaches to customer service was a little, stark shall we say.
Cheers
Mr Mac

[S.o.S.]

Lovely stories! Thank you folks. Any thread benefits from 'war stories'. I recall many moons ago, a thread about the old Aeroflot and their cabin service. One regional flight - the cabin crew wore their overcoats due to the low temperatures and served tea or coffee from two large flasks that were stored in the voluminous pockets of the overcoat!

[pabloc]

Lovely stories! Thank you folks. Any thread benefits from 'war stories'. I recall many moons ago, a thread about the old Aeroflot and their cabin service. One regional flight - the cabin crew wore their overcoats due to the low temperatures and served tea or coffee from two large flasks that were stored in the voluminous pockets of the overcoat!
sitting at the back half of the aircraft....SMOKING!!! 😂😂

[PAXboy]

My Uncle was a precise man (he qualified as a Barrister) and when th 747-100 was introduced, he said he had enjoyed the aircraft but of travelling in Economy, "If you do not wish to see the film [screen projection at the front of the cabin] and you wish to smoke - the Jumbo jet is a six seater aircraft."

Pabloc, he was referring to the very back rows of the main cabin!

[RevMan2]

Flew CAAC on a B707 PEK-HKG in 1982.
Food was excellent IIRC and I recall VERY CORRECTLY that beer was served in coffee cups, the bottles coming from an unsecured crate next to an emergency exit....

[occasional]

Just flown Malaga to Glasgow. Everything very relaxed and, much to my surprise, very few passengers. I was expecting there to be a lot of pent up demand but no sign of that. Almost all the passengers ended up filling in the quarantine form on arrival in Glasgow as there seems to be no way of communicating that it is required.
Next flight with BA who seem to be doing their best to make life difficult by chopping and changing the cancellations.

[b1lanc]

. Both of us were surprised at the room in economy, I must have forgot the space we had, or I have got bigger !!

I once thought the seat size had shrunk on 737s and 727s. Brought home the real truth when I met a friend for lunch and he picked me up in his wife's Corvette. Pulled into a parking space and two 65+ year olds could not extricate themselves from the car. He had to pull out of the spot so I could get out and then he couldn't get out when he pulled back in. Forget lunch - drove to the park and had a nice chat. Flight home was really tight!

[Squawk 6042]

My memory of arriving in Lagos in the early 2000s was seeing a very dirty Nigerian Airways DC10 partially sunk into the mud at the side of the runway.

More recently, earlier this week flew Manchester to Dar es Salaam via Doha with Qatar. No departures from MAN a good while to each side so security was a breeze – straight through with no queue. Aircraft was a quarter full A359 so plenty of room. Cabin crew wore full body suit including hood and goggles as well as masks. Full service provided.

Similar for the A320 DOH –DAR except this flight was full. On arrival in DAR, sign a form and temperature check. All handled efficiently.

Then a domestic flight on a Dash 8 Q400. Flight 90% full. Cabin crew wore masks and no service (usually a bag of cashew nuts and tea/coffee in a cardboard cup or alcohol). Temperature check on departure and arrival.

[Asturias56]

" a thread about the old Aeroflot and their cabin service. "

DOES NOT COMPUTE - DOES NOT COMPUTE DOES NOT COMPUTE

[SpringHeeledJack]

Not perhaps Aeroflot's direct fault, but several pairs of blue jeans went missing from a suitcase between flights whilst transiting Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport. Not amused at the other end...

[PAXboy]

This is not about any recent travel of mine but this report in a South African paper is very interesting in contrasting air travel in South Africa and the USA within the last week.
Business Live South Africa (https://www.businesslive.co.za/fm/opinion/2020-06-29-justice-malala-what-three-american-airports-taught-me-about-covid-19-and-political-leadership/?fbclid=IwAR0973jDPIJuwoWPOi3Baq6Z9q52bae6ofExWgfWRUwtsAJ9Aq Bk4C8PZwY)
The reporters name is 'Justice Malala' that is not a title, his given name is Justice.

What three American airports taught me about Covid-19 and political leadership

Measured against SA’s public health measures, the US’s efforts seemed negligent at best and criminal at worst
29 June 2020 - 06:00

Last Sunday I landed in Washington, DC, from SA, one of the nations Trump included in the class of “****hole countries”.

But I was immediately struck by how scarily lackadaisical the US government is about limiting the spread of the coronavirus compared to SA and, perhaps, other countries. Measured against SA’s public health measures, the US’s efforts seemed negligent at best and criminal at worst. It’s chalk and cheese, a true tale of two countries.

There are some introductory paragraphs before he describes travelling JNB to IAD and connecting to IAH then to LAX.

[Paul Lupp]

^
I suspect that "Justice (for) Malala" is a pseudonym..... if not, then it's highly coincidental at this time.
And didn't POTUS declare some months ago that the USA had conquered covid-19 and there was nothing to worry about? This may have gotten through to a majority of their population?

Hard to believe that just over 2 years ago I spent a week's vacation in DC, visiting many of the Smithsonian museums, the White House Visitor Center etc etc :-(

[PAXboy]

I have seen a lot of UK people in the last couple of weeks who have forgotten the meaning of 'social distancing' and, today, friends told me of one care home where staff still do not wear face masks.

[Load Toad]

Have they got PPE to wear? I've had to send masks from HKG to UK for a friend whose mother is terminally ill but the nurses who attend daily to help with palliative care don't have sufficient PPE for all the patients they have to visit.

[Hartington]

^
I suspect that "Justice (for) Malala" is a pseudonym..... if not, then it's highly coincidental at this time.
(
A bit of searching suggests you're wrong.

[Mr Mac]

Paxboy
Just go back of my first long haul flight, and cannot say it was much fun. Long check in time even in Business, and face mask apart from when drinking and eating. On the plus side terminals quiet, immigration quiet (on nodding terms now with them having flown through lock down), and the G&T and views are all still good. It was good to be getting back into a routine even if slightly different but will have to get used to it, as there will be a lot more between now and Christmas, to catch up on the last few months workload.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[Asturias56]

What sort of check in times did you face Mac? I've got some flying coming u and want to know how many days earlier I have to arrive.............

[Mr Mac]

Asturias 56
Well it used to be 1.5hrs in Business, but I was on 3hrs, and I was told they are trying to get 4 hrs ! I am not sure that time is required, as the terminals and flights are still quite quiet, but I guess they are planning for when there are more passengers. It will be a while before I get used to this type of service on long haul, somehow not too bad just going into Europe, but the longer hops are going to be a real pain. However with that length of check in times there is less chance of missing flights due to traffic issues on M62 /60, so one silver lining !!

Cheers
Mr Mac

[Asturias56]

Thanks - I suspect they'll make it as long as possible and we'll all sit airside for hours with nothing to do - much the same as post 911

[SLF3]

In 1982 the 20.30 AF to to Paris was the last flight out of T2. With cabin baggage you could check in on the gate 20 minutes before flight time, no checks prior. My dad used to aim to drop me at the terminal Sunday evening 30 minutes before departure. From memory it was a scheduled 1 hour but usually much quicker. There was an Air Cameroon (I think) flight arrived at the next gate in Paris around the same time. If they landed first, immigration took longer than the rest of the journey combined. Beat them and I was in bed in the 7th arrondisement by midnight.

[Asturias56]

Bloody Osama Bin Laden cost the world zillions in lost time and frustration

[SpringHeeledJack]

I flew intra-Europe in the last few days. Airports were like the Marie Celeste, actually a pleasure. The aircraft was full, which surprised me as I was under the impression that there was meant to be spaces between passenger, or is that now yesterday's news ? I wasn't on a holiday route, so was amongst single/pairs of adults etc. Overall a pleasant experience.

[Paul Lupp]

Reports in the British Press that there were just 3 immigration/passport desks open in LHR T5 at the start of this week-end, with queues taking 5 hours or more to get through, obviously compromising social distancing with the large numbers and bottlenecks at the desks. This seems totally unacceptable to me, surely the Home Office get the numbers of expected passengers from the airport/airline well in advance, along with expected arrival times, so they should have a very good idea of passenger numbers throughout the day

[redsnail]

I came back from Portugal last week via easyJet into Luton. Straight through the automatic gates, no questions asked about the PLF. Folks with children had to see a Border Force person. I can see how that can cause issues if there's a lot of families coupled with a lack of BF officers, it would be carnage. As was seen in Heathrow.
All the other airports I've operated into, like Biggin etc, have not asked to see the PLF. All they did was ask "have you filled in the PLF?". (We have) :)

[DaveReidUK]

I came back from Portugal last week via easyJet into Luton. Straight through the automatic gates, no questions asked about the PLF. Folks with children had to see a Border Force person. I can see how that can cause issues if there's a lot of families coupled with a lack of BF officers, it would be carnage. As was seen in Heathrow.
All the other airports I've operated into, like Biggin etc, have not asked to see the PLF. All they did was ask "have you filled in the PLF?". (We have)

Assuming that the online PLF is like API - in that you can't fly unless and until you have completed it - then whether you show evidence or not at the UK Border is largely irrelevant as your details will already be on the system.

The other explanation would be that the system simply isn't working. Surely not. :O

[xanda_man]

Flew EMA-CFU on 30th July and returned on 2nd Aug. A much different experience with both sides being a ghost town on the outbound leg. Strict enforcement of the Greece PLF on the way out in EMA with people being turned around at the gate. However no test for us on arrival in CFU which is supposedly pre-determined. Load was around 80-90%.

Return flight was a different story. CFU airport was actually quite busy with 6/7 outbounds back to varying destinations but the load was only around 50% on our RYR flight, if that, meaning a very spaced out flight. Again strict checking of the UK Gov PLF prior to immigration in EMA with several people taken aside to a dedicated area with ipads in booths where I guess they are made to fill them in there and then.

Overall a different but pleasant experience due to the quietness of the airports even though I know this is bad for the airlines/economy, obviously. Wearing a mask really isn't an issue for the duration either.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

What sort of check in times did you face Mac? I've got some flying coming u and want to know how many days earlier I have to arrive.............

I travelled on a large leisure airline from Manchester to Dubrovnik a week ago and saw no difference with check in times at all. Remember, just because an airline says check in “opens” 3 hours before departure doesn’t mean you have to be there then, most close check in about 30-45 minutes before departure, as long as you are there by then you’re fine.

[Mr Mac]

Johnny F@rt Pants
In July when I did the trip with Qatar that was what they were wanting. I have not done LH since, just hops into Germany and check in has been std 2hrs for these. I have more LH trips in Sept with EK from Manchester and Germany so will see what they are looking at then. The situation is fluid as we all know, and subject to change. The mask thing though is not fun on the long hops for me at least.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I have not done LH since, just hops into Germany and check in has been std 2hrs for these.

Whilst I appreciate that airlines open their check in 2-3-4 hours ahead and publicise that they would like you to check in at least 2-3-4 hours before departure, it isn’t a requirement. If the whole aeroplane load turned up at 2 hours to departure the last person to check in would probably be at 1 hour to departure. When I used to travel every week I knew each different airlines check in closing time, that was my target, get to check in just before the check in closed, straight to security, often to have to be pulled out and put to the front, then on to the gate to board the aeroplane, minimal time in the airport. Now that I am with the family I give myself a bit more time, but I am no slave to the 2 hour request, in fact somewhere between 60-90 minutes is what I go for.

[Paul Lupp]

^
Interesting....... I am due to fly LHR-TXL later this month.... a bit of an anomaly to find that Lufthansa do not fly this route !
2 hour check-in for a 2-hour flight will be interesting, having to wear an asphyxiant all the time (otherwise known as a face mask). Also LHR have cut right back on parking, and I noted yesterday that now, at any time of day or night you have to call for the transfer bus from long-term to terminal 5. Does this mean that passenger numbers are falling still further, or that passengers are simply avoiding LHR's own car parks??

[redsnail]

I returned to the UK on Thurs, Heathrow this time. I did the PLF about an hour before checkin. :) This time I used the automatic gates with no hassles. Travellers with children had to go through the "old school" gates and see a Border Force officer. They had to show their PLF.

[Jet II]

I flew back from Toronto last week on Air Canada and had the same experience - did the PLF the night before and went through the auto gates, didnt see a soul on entry to the UK..

[SpringHeeledJack]

I flew into the UK yesterday and neither the airline's online or check-in stages advertised the fact the PLF was necessary in an obvious way. It was rather like all the small print at the bottom of the screen at the end of a TV commercial, legally there, but somehow not.

I was surprised that they needed SO much information on the online form, it went on and on. It could have been half the length and been effective. A man within earshot was pleading with the gate staff to provide a way for him to complete the form as someone who didn't own a smartphone! He was getting very stressed and the staff were unable to help, it just didn't compute.....

[Paul Lupp]

I find it a very sad reflection on the UK that getting "back home" always seems to be the worst part of any travel. Having been born here (UK) and lived all my life here, why do we make it so long and stressful a process to return home after being away for a few days? Sometimes I have looked at the queues of "non-Brits" waiting to get into the UK at Heathrow and wondered just what sort of first impression they get when faced by lengthy queues to often woefully understaffed desks - this coming quite possibly after a long-haul flight where the last thing you want to do is stand in line for a few hours just to clear "formalities"

[PAXboy]

One of the ways you know that you are back home at LHR - the toilets are rarely clean.

[waito]

I'm hesitating to use public transportation. People seem to not care a lot with the rules anymore. Rush instead distance, impatience instead care.

[S.o.S.]

Waito Welcome to the Cabin of PPRuNe. Your anxiety is shared by many. I have found (here in the UK) that people are queuing properly distanced outside a supermarket - but when they go inside, they revert to 'Standard Operating Procedure' and forget.

[Pistonprop]

That's been my experience outside the UK too. Yesterday I had to shop at a busy time and was almost panicked by the near total lack of social distancing discipline (which had generally been good until lately). I felt like screaming, "Hey people, the virus is still very much around - show some sense"! Even the chatty neighbours are back to standard distancing I note too! This relaxation of basic precautions by many concerns me.

[SpringHeeledJack]

There does seem to be a 'forgetting' of the dangers when in more crowded areas, supermarkets, parents outside schools at pick up/drop off, queues for food/drink establishments. I had a business woman standing behind me in the queue for our flight the other day having a very animated conversation with mask lowered spewing possible virions out, seemingly oblivious to any effects. The queues for passport control at LHR were also more 'cosy' than I would've liked, people just in mindless mode trying to get through as quickly as possible. Much of our behaviour is autonomous in nature, but times have changed, for how long who knows, but changed times calls for changed behaviour.

[SLF3]

I’ve flown four sectors London - Italy. I’m not in a hurry to do it again. However you look at it, my risk of getting Covid is orders of magnitude higher travelling than my day to day life. Add in the issues of the potential need to quarantine either end, or deal with Covid at destination, and it just isn’t worth the trouble.

And it is stressful, time consuming and mindless.

in T5 at LHR, unmanaged and unnecessary ‘snake’ queues to check in (30 - 40 minutes) due to understaffed desks, while Multiple supervisors look on bored. Staff mask compliance 75% at best. Lip service social distancing arrangements in the terminal (just look at the random seat blockers and the security). Minimal sanitiser provision. Minimal food and drink options both on the ground and in flight. ‘We care about your safety, here is a tiny wet wipe.’ No paperwork tests on incoming passengers, I’d be amazed if the take up rate for the self declaration is much more than half.

bologna arrivals a time consuming zoo.

malpensa pretty good.

venice, 30 minute queue to get in the terminal. Terminal reconfigured for one way traffic but contradictory signage leads you to closed escalators and lifts. Car hire desks at the centre of a maze.

this industry is obviously in trouble, but it is also self harming.

[SpringHeeledJack]

You'd have thought that the Italians of all countries would have things well organised by now.

A curious question, why didn't you avail yourself of the train system in Northern Italy ? All your destinations are well covered by the system and perhaps less of a chance of exposure, that perhaps at airports is higher these days. Hopefully after the summer rush is over, the airports will get their act together and have a cohesive strategy to funnel the passengers in and out of their establishments with minimal stress and time consumption.

[Asturias56]

"why didn't you avail yourself of the train system in Northern Italy "

there have been some issues regarding trains with various Ministries issuing contradictory advice and rules. Its not much better than flying plus you have even longer exposure. With the UK Govt current quarantines flying is just about the only way to get to Italy without passing through France by train or car

[SLF3]

I did. Flew London / Italy, then cars and trains in Italy. Bologna / Milan and Bolzano / Verona / Milan by train. The trains are excellent, and on long distance trains (and the Malpensa 'express') alternate seats are blocked. Carriages are 'one way' (one door to enter, one to leave). Sanitiser everywhere, social distancing routinely practised at stations. Mask compliance 100%. Regional trains are not as strict but are comfortable and not that busy. Where I work, meeting rooms have restricted numbers and everyone wears masks except at their desks. Restaurants and hotels are well organised, hygiene measures well thought through, it varies but compliance levels much higher than in London.

Overall, Northern Italy is dealing with Covid far more effectively than the UK. As reflected by their numbers.

Whether they will be able to hold the line given the number of foreign visitors in the North is an open question, but it won't be for want of trying.

[Helol]

Paxboy
Just go back of my first long haul flight, and cannot say it was much fun. Long check in time even in Business, and face mask apart from when drinking and eating. On the plus side terminals quiet, immigration quiet (on nodding terms now with them having flown through lock down), and the G&T and views are all still good.
Cheers
Mr Mac

I note this was a long haul flight. My question is, what type of mask did you wear? I am referring to the comfort factor so one that is easier to breathe through, and all the rest of the comfort factors when wearing a mask. I am dreading wearing one for 10/11 hours when the time comes that I am able to fly again down to SA. I think I might need to be knocked out for the duration! Thanks.

[Mr Mac]

Helol
I use soft cotton masks which have ties that go behind my neck and the other loops behind my ears. The cotton does not rub on your skin as much as the paper alternatives, and is not so tight as the one which are used in chemical or dusty environment's. We use the latter at work, but in the environment's mentioned, but I would not consider wearing one for multiple hours on long haul flights. You are obviously allowed to remove them when eating and drinking, and I would suggest you chew very slowly and drink even slower or more often ;)
Cheers
Mr Mac

[PAXboy]

Here is another clver clogs:
Man avoids wearing face mask on Tenerife flight by making tube of Pringles last four hours (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tenerife-flight-pringles-hack-face-mask-a4539791.html)

It was on easyJet.

[Helol]

Here is another clver clogs:
Man avoids wearing face mask on Tenerife flight by making tube of Pringles last four hours (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tenerife-flight-pringles-hack-face-mask-a4539791.html)

It was on easyJet.

Does chewing gum count as eating :p;)

[Paul Lupp]

Well, I have survived to tell this tale....
LHR T5 to TXL Friday 28 August, return journey Friday 4 September.
No attempt at distancing by BA, both flights were full (maybe 1 or 2 empty seats, but middle seats were being used).
Plane boarded and deplaned by rows of 5 seats, from the back to embark and from the front to disembark. On landing both times , a few people did stand up and attempt to retrieve luggage fom overhead bins but announcements were made reminding them to stay seated until their row number was called.
Check-in time was 2 hours in advance of departure time but this was excessive due to reduced numbers at both airports; due to traffic issues on the M25 I arrived about 1 1/2 hours before departure from Heathrow and almost exactly the 2 hours at Tegel ... plenty of time to kill until boarding. Most but not all shops are open at Heathrow T5 but with a limit on numbers of people permitted at any one time (as expected) but this wasn't an issue... personally I find the barriers and security staff at the shop entrances off-putting (not just at Heathrow but in town centres too).

Tegel - on the basis that there are few passengers and that the airport is scheduled top close in the near future, not all the shops were open but I reckon that over half were. No facility to get "free" water from a fountain once through security/emigration. Only way would be to buy from kiosk or machine (TXL has its own, pratically unique way of doing things).

Immigration at Heathrow T5 is a farce, the queue snakes back and forth on itself so not possible to observe social distancing. No requirement to self-isolate when arriving from Germany, but those in the queue around you could be from countries where the virus is rampant. As per about 50-% of occasions, the auto-gate dd not work for me, so further queueing to see an Officer who was pleasant and efficient, and I was asked to show my Locator Form on my smart phone (and he scanned it). By the time this was dealt with, my case was already on the luggage belt. Only one exit was open to get into the terminal though, and of course it was the furthest one from where our bags were delivered.

Nevertheless, not too bad an experience at both ends... around an hour from airport to hotel in Berlin (by TXL bus then tram, both of which were about 1/3 full), and around an hour to get home from T5 (by my car).

My biggest concern was the passenger next to me on my return flight - wearing an athletics vest top, and shorts. Totally inappropriate clothing at the best of times IMHO, but in these times, potential for "fluid contact" via sweat from bare skin is much increased.

[Mr Mac]

Does chewing gum count as eating :p;)
Helol
If Bojo / Trump have anything to do with it probably yes, however in the real world in which the rest of us live, I would say no.:rolleyes:
Cheers
Mr Mac

[Mr Mac]

Here is another clver clogs:
Man avoids wearing face mask on Tenerife flight by making tube of Pringles last four hours (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tenerife-flight-pringles-hack-face-mask-a4539791.html)

It was on easyJet.
Paxboy
Unfortunately comes from near me as well :sad:
Kind regards
Mr Mac

[cjhants]

Flew LHR DLM. Out 6th back last night. T5 quiet but not as empty as I thought last week. Most people wearing masks, apart from a few young women who had their masks off to take selfies. Some BA CC walking around with masks around their necks, but mostly masked up. Outbound about two thirds full, back almost full.
BA catering was bottle of water, packet of crisps, biscuit.
Arrival at T5B last night, escalators u/s, so dozens crammed into lifts, so much for social distancing during rest of airport/ flight experience.
Border force staff just asked where we had come from, no checking of online entry form.
In Turkey, had temperature checked each time we entered hotel, most restaurants, coaches and on entering terminal at DLM. Must have had temperature checked about 50 times during week.

[Asturias56]

Talking to one of our guys yesterday - flew in to Venice from LHR with BA - LHR T5 quiet, flight 100% full but "very subdued" - everyone masked. Venice Airport totally empty but all buses etc running pretty much as normal

Thought the boarding by rows at LHR wasn't well organised - an electronic display rather than a BA girl yelling her head off would have helped - but disembarking by sets of 6 rows was apparently remarkably civilised

[togsdragracing]

A friend flew to Corfu from Leeds/Bradford this morning. I quote "Plane was full. Some people cannot understand simple instructions like "Please keep your mask on" and "Don't queue for the toilet"!"

[Pistonprop]

If you can't queue for the toilet then the cabin crew should be handing out numbered tickets! "Number 103 for the forward toilet please", etc. It is completely ridiculous and lacking all logic to seriously expect people not to queue for the toilets so as to ensure their rightful turn.

[wub]

Flew EDI to LHR with BA yesterday. They started boarding by seat row from the back but by the time they got to row 20 they gave up and it became the usual scrum to get on.

[PAXboy]

I find the same in supermarkets. Outside, people dutifully observe the distance markers but, once inside, revert to standard behaviour. The other week I was at petrol station and they have installed a Stop/Go traffic light at the door that counts people in and out. When I got there it was red. So I stopped. A man asked me if I was waiting, I started to say, "I'm waiting for the green light" but after "I'm waiting ..." he overtook me and went straight into the shop with no mask on.

[SpringHeeledJack]

They started boarding by seat row from the back but by the time they got to row 20 they gave up and it became the usual scrum to get on.

It's crazy, either do it, or not. These half-arsed efforts don't serve anyone at all.

I find the same in supermarkets. Outside, people dutifully observe the distance markers but, once inside, revert to standard behaviour. The other week I was at petrol station and they have installed a Stop/Go traffic light at the door that counts people in and out. When I got there it was red. So I stopped. A man asked me if I was waiting, I started to say, "I'm waiting for the green light" but after "I'm waiting ..." he overtook me and went straight into the shop with no mask on.

Shopping centre this afternoon, dutifully following the one-way arrows (very large, very obvious) like a good boy and there were groups of several people coming the opposite way seemingly oblivious to the cross-contamination risk. Strangely they were either ch*vs or other persons new to these shores. Couldn't care less it would seem. Makes me mad, but you can't change stupid, you only waste your time and energy trying to explain.