Australian Airlines - the latest

[Lifejacket]

G'day

AA is starting up in 2 months-a-roo.
What's the G O .... anyone?
I have a bit of an interest in scoring a job there.
Will they employ effo's directly?
Jeez, the silence is killin' me.
Is there any ****** out there who K-nows?
Yeah yeah, thanks in advance old sport(s).

LJ

[Keg]

Rumours only! ;)

Sweet for F/Os. They have a plenty.

Shortish of captains. Talk of localised lines whilst they train up those who want a command in CNS.

No direct entry at this stage.

You're welcome.

[Lifejacket]

Jeez Keg, you're on the ball mate. Well done old son. :) :)

[Lodown]

I suspect AA might get 10% or so of the market.
VB's share will remain unaffected.
QF's share to reduce 10% or so.

But still a few months away.

[Keg]

LOL. Lodown, Australian will get 0% of the domestic market. It'll be a whjile before Virgin are on the Cairns to Singapore, Hong Kong, Osaka, Narita etc routes!

[sprucegoose]

But only a while Keg.

[strobes_on]

Keg

I think you will find that QF wants to effectively "transfer" as much of QF domestic into Australian as it can. This reduces the mainline's operating cost base and provides the "low cost" Australian Airlines with extra capacity.

Dixon wants Australian to expand as quickly as possible. This is the vehicle that will confront Virgin head on and Corrigan and VB know that.

Maybe whispers of disagreement between Corrigan, Huttner and Branson are the first signs that Virgin's dream run to date is about to falter.

One of the rumours about Australian Airline's flight crew requirement is that they DON'T have enough Captains. But you are dead right about the F/O's.

The crewing is so tight that localised lines may not be possible once the full schedule gets up and running towards the end of November.

Inevitable schedule increases as Australian expands would tend to make the crewing requirement very interesting. This expansion will occur as rapidly as it can be set up. Even if this means outside or contracted crews.

Don't be fooled, Australian Airlines has a huge role in the QF master plan.

[Capt Coconut]

I think you'll find it will be a long time before AO considers any entry into the domestic market.It's not in the business plan and they will be flat out coping with the rapid expansion of the international routes and the opening of the southern base.
There was a shortage of current Captains apply however no shortage of F/O's wanting upgrade and they will be trained.They won't have a problem running locialised lines as the 4 original a/c are coming from Qantas.
As for the future who knows.At the moment all agreements are written around current QF pilots crewing the airline.

[Lifejacket]

G'day Strobos Maximus

Mate, from all the way over there in the Land of the Seppo (for the sensitive, this is not an insult) how do you know all that on AA?
Sounds like a good run down to me, so keep it comin'.
I just wanna job, and to see VB get their butt kicked, by whoever, wherever, but soon.
Don't want much in life.

LJ

[gaunty]

That is something that I just don't understand.

The ambition/desire to kick VBs butt and/or remove them from the skies.

I don't work for them nor have I, so far, had the pleasure of their service, although mrs and miss gaunty have and enjoyed it and they are QF FFs.

Competition in the market is what it is all about and they were there and propspering when there were TWO biggies.

They are still there and on all the evidence so far, prospering with a happy and fulfilled workforce.

They may not fit the old ideas about how things should work but hey, whatever they are doing and RB has shown that challenging the status quo is highly profitable, it is obvioiusly working.

I am here to tell you life would be reeaaaaaaaaaaally boring for everybody, including the folks at QF were there not competition of the type and calibre of RB ad VB, not to mention higher fares.

Dicko' knows that AA gets up and everybody wins, more jobs for all.

Or was that shortage of Captains mentioned here, imaginary.

[strobes_on]

Lifejacket

I don't want VB to fold. There has been too much of that. But they will face some huge competition once AO gets to full strength.

My info is from contacts back in OZ. The lastest info re shortage of Captains is pretty recent.

Looking at their web site schedule, once the operation is running to all destinations by the end of Nov, I reckon they would need around 30 - 35 crews.

Can any QF people say if 35 B767 captains are currently surplus to crew the operation ? They might cover it in the short term, but if it expands quickly, they may well have problems crewing it.

[Lifejacket]

Whoa

Gaunty, mate, easy there big fella.
Just said I'd like to see their butts get kicked.
And I would, but I'm not into seeing an increase of the gainlfully unemployed though.
Freshen up sunshine.
Go for a surf mate.



:)

[jakethemuss]

The requirement is for 25 crews, 26 next year once leave taking begins. Current F/O's will be trained up to take up Captains slots if not enough Captains apply which seems the case. Only domestic flying is CNS-OOL-CNS daily at this stage and is mostly for on-carriage from INTL flights ex Japan.

Australian will grow where opportunities for this type of product exist. Turkey has been rumoured as a possible future destination, major emphasis on the rumour part as they really have their hands full just getting what they've already got to do up and running.

Australian will be a vehicle for some Qantas pilots to take up an opportunity for promotion sooner than it would have occurred in mainline.

Qantas is currently employing about 8-12 pilots every four weeks. Promotional opportunities are abundant at present with around 6-18 months to F/O depending on whether you choose to go to 767 or 737. 737 being the more senior choice because of lifestyle issues on the 767, however life is improving on the 767 somewhat (Keg?).

Aipa securing Australian Airlines flying only helps to keep the promotional opportunities flowing and keep it in house. Well done I say.:) ;) :cool:

[Gnadenburg]

Gaunty

What don`t you understand?

Many here wanted AN out of the skies.

Revenge,bitternes or opportunity.The usual human virtues.

Me, I would be disturbed to see my many mates at VB out of work.Would genuinely like to see them rewarded for their efforts and dedication with a little more than a $1000 bonus.Working poor and all that.

Australian Airlines good luck too.Hope a different culture to some of the long-haul weirdos I`ve met.

[gaunty]

Life Jacket

Too cold for a surf but the walk did me good, thanks.:D

[Keg]

Strobes, 'rumours' to me are things that I have heard but haven't had confirmed by the manager concerned but may have second or third hand.

Your source is correct about the slots but anything beyond that is hypothesising and crystal ball gazing well into the future. As jakethemuss mentioned, Australian is working pretty hard to get it's Cairns op up and going and it'll be a while before they start working on other bases and other route structures let alone starting to consider domestic aviation.

Whilst I don't have anything in writing, the 'goss' (read between the lines) is that they aren't sure where they will be flying to in a couple of years time beyond the current ports they've announced. Everything esle is just management thinking aloud.

[strobes_on]

Just to bring this back to the top.

[strobes_on]

Keg,

My "source" has told me that QF is right now reconfiguring a number of 300 series 767's to all 'Y' class.

I would bet that while QF may operate these aircraft in the interim on the so called 'leisure' sectors, they will be destined to be repainted in AO colors in the near furure.

This is, I think, how QF will rapidly move AO into OZ domestic operations.

[rescue 1]

Agreed that AIPA have done a good job to tie up th B767 operation, but what of any further expansion on the Tasman or on Australian leisure routes?

Could Dickson secure a few Airconnex or Jetconnect crew and aircraft to fly these routes?

[The_Equaliser]

The initial aircraft for Australian Airlines were always planned to be a batch of current QF 767-300s. So the re-configuring is completely expected and is not some great conspiracy about to unfold. Disappointed?

[flipside]

It does add some spice to the topic now they are talking single class 767 on domestic leisure routes(leisure couls be anything thats not citiflyer)

[Going Boeing]

Strobes - I don't like to dissappoint you but "ALL AUSTRALIAN AIRLINES PILOTS WILL COME FROM WITHIN QF & THERE WILL BE NO DIRECT ENTRY PILOTS". Also the 4 initial B767-300's come from the existing fleet so the total number of B767 pilots has minimal change.
The single class configuration of AO B767's is set up for International operations which provides more leg room than the normal Domestic configuration so it is very unlikely for these aircraft to ever be used in a permanent domestic operation. This configuration is close to the max allowable number of pax due to egress restrictions.
The existing QF domestic configured B767's are not planned to be configured to single class config. These aircraft are mainly used on "City Flyer" routes which require a level of premium class seating. Up to 40 B737's will be reconfigured to single class for use on routes where there is virtually no demand for premium class, ie holiday destinations etc.

This information has been clearly stated by QF management and any speculation to the contrary is exactly that.

GB

[Al E. Vator]

........and of course Qantas management are to be trusted completely!:p

[Keg]

GB, just as an aside. Interesting to note that the AWAS contracts are due to finish in October and Australian which is due to start up in November is a tad short of Captains. Wouldn't surprise me if there are some short term contract crews while the others get trained up.

Nothing firm, just me putting two and two together although I hope I've stuffed up and have the answer as '5'! :eek:

[jakethemuss]

Localised lines will be built in CNS for the first few months of AO operations. These will be bid for by existing QF B767 Captains to cater for the training requirements of QF F/O's who are being upgraded to command to take up a CNS AO Captain position.
There is no requirement for localised F/O lines as the number of applicants far exceeded requirements.
ALL pilot positions will be filled from QF ranks, Aipa has secured this flying for its members. Here endeth the rumour.:D

[Keg]

Yeah Jake, heard that too. I'll believe it when I see it. I've been optimistic about it all so far. I'm a bit pessimistic about this particular side of it though! Time will tell. Hope I'm dreadfully wrong! :D

[Towering Cu]

Having been flying today, the company intam suggests localised CNS lines for 4 weeks of next bid period for both Captains and F/O's.:D :D

[SOPS]

for those of us, not in the know, what is a localised line?

[Keg]

Towering Cu, thank bloody goodness. :D Thanks for the heads up.

SOP, a 'localised' line is where you fly your roster from a different base station and in that respect your are 'localised' in another temporary base.

A 'localised' line also implies some degree of non permanance about it. IE, it is only for a short time and not a basing as such. All allowances will be paid whilst away from 'home' base.

Hope that helps, it's late so it may be a bit vague.

[Kaptin M]

Sorry if I appear to be "a stick in the mud", Keg, et al - however, to an outsider, it has always seemed that Australian Airlines was re-introduced to f@ck the salary/seniority/union line of the QF pilots.

As lowly as you guys see yourselves paid, there is a worldwide trend by airline managements to dispose of unionised pilot labour.
Australian Airlines is QANTAS managements' salvo into your (apparently unaware) AIPA midst.
Unfortunately methinks it has has been allowed to grow way too far beyond stopping it now, in spite of the warning calls aired here.

Keg, my friend, your command has been set back several years BECAUSE of Australian Airlines - unless AIPA takes a stand NOW!!

Don't be suckered in.

[Mud Skipper]

Australian Airlines is not the only snake in the grass.

Rumours are that Jetconnect is to get at least 3 of the old Australian 737-300's, can't see that much demand in NZ. You can probably expect to see them ply the Tasman.

Also rumours of 737-300 going to the new Australian Airlines, perhaps operated by sub contractor like National Jet?

Is AIPA a union or just a carreer path to managment?