EC 225 Crew question

[Jetscream 32]

Hiya,

Just wondering if any EC225 crews on here can offer constructive feedback on thoughts to flying the aircraft again in aerial work capacity - NO pax - ie would you take a job flying one again? Interested to understand pilot willingness to fly as long as the epicyclic gear mod has been done etc.

Thanks

JS

[Special 25]

I think you'll find most 225 pilots would still fly it - Aerial work, passenger work, VIP.

Its still probably the best aircraft out there!

[bigglesbutler]

Give me the keys and where, when and what are we doing? The 225 is still my favourite aircraft and I would happily fly it again.

si

[malabo]

Helped an operator round up some crews a short while ago, did not find any past pilots that would not fly it again, in an instant. Popular aircraft with both pilots and operators - except in the NS. Their loss.

[Jetscream 32]

Wow, thanks for that positive response - can’t get much fairer than that!

cheers -

[helicrazi]

I'd be hard pressed, whilst there are other options it wouldnt be my preference but never say never.

[jimf671]

The numbers, the numbers, the numbers. If anyone is looking for a large rotorcraft that has gone 12 years and over half a million CAT hours before its first fatality then they are going to struggle unless they get in a 225.

[Twist & Shout]

Great AC to fly - I hope I’m never asked to fly it again.
Airbus propaganda is worth nothing to me - It would be a sick feeling, the whole time airbourne, wondering if the MR was going to depart with no warning.

[Twist & Shout]

The numbers, the numbers, the numbers. If anyone is looking for a large rotorcraft that has gone 12 years and over half a million CAT hours before its first fatality then they are going to struggle unless they get in a 225.

The first “multiple” fatality? (Every time the MR comes off - everyone dies.)
How many years/hours between the first, and the second?

How many hours till the next one? (Rhetorical)

[MajorLemond]

Helped an operator round up some crews a short while ago, did not find any past pilots that would not fly it again, in an instant. Popular aircraft with both pilots and operators - except in the NS. Their loss.

Yeah nah. I doubt you'd have the same opinion when your warning panel lights up like a Christmas tree followed by the sound of rotors impacting the tail boom and the sheer horror experienced by all as you realise what's happening.

Who's loss is it then?
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[budgie2007]

I'd be reluctant to take it back into a hostile environment regularly taking off at MTOM with a full load of passengers, but if operating at lower weights and with solid land below to put it onto incase of an issue I'd be fine with it. It is a brilliant aircraft but I think the design ended up being pushed too far.

[Fareastdriver]

To much new wine in old bottles.

[Twist & Shout]

To much new wine in old bottles.

MTOW
7000kg (330?) - 11500kg

[Fareastdriver]

The 330C/Puma HC1, started off at 6,400kgs.

[P3 Bellows]

It was a fine aircraft. 147kts TAS at 10,000ft with full fuel and full load of PAX.

Then large lumps fell off the inside of the MGB and caused 2 aircraft to ditch as a result of failure (indications) of the emergency lube system. Then the head came off the Norwegian aircraft and it was the same failure mode as the Bond L2 where the head also came off the aircraft.

After the Norwegian crash, Airbus Helicopters told untruths regarding the nappy pins holding the MGB on and blackened the CHC engineers name before the truth came out.

At that point it was no longer a fine aircraft.

Anyone who says they loved it and would happily fly it again are clearly not thinking too deeply about the facts.

I flew it for many years and appreciated its abilities but I would never fly one again.

[Bravo73]

Hear, hear.

[212man]

P3. I thought (without trying to search reports on my phone) that it wasn’t really an indication problem. One factor was that the P3 (P2.5?) bleed air used to pressurise the glycol was coming from engines at low power, Vy in descent, rather than cruise - which was a wrong assumption by ECF when setting the thresholds for the warning. Plus tolerances in the transducers were greater than expected.

[nomorehelosforme]

Interesting comments from pilots prospective, any ideas how many 225’s are still grounded, returned to lessors or to Airbus and the costs involved? Additionally what applications are the ones currently flying tasked to?

[Jimmy.]

Interesting comments from pilots prospective, any ideas how many 225’s are still grounded, returned to lessors or to Airbus and the costs involved? Additionally what applications are the ones currently flying tasked to?

In Brazil I saw 2 225 flying offshore for a short period of time after the 2015 grounding was over and after that they were flying external loads for other customers.

[berlioz]

Spain still uses the 225 in they´re SAR operations. I believe they have 2 SAR bases with the 225.

[BluSdUp]

I was just reading the local paper and it reminded me it has now been 4 years.
I was looking for the old original tread , but I could not find it, so I impose on this one.
I am on the Boeing 737-800 and the older types had the rudder hardover and the latest and greatest they had to call the Max!! Just to hint how fare they stretched the old beast.
I did learn a thing or two about gears and such as the Turøy accident unfolded. And even more about "Aviation Politics" if I could use that phrase.
Anyway.
I got plenty of time on my hands now until this Corona madness blows over,,,! So I shall make a point of visiting the crash site , as there is a Memorial there in the form of a wopping great bolder with a tiny house on top off it . The bolder is a classic round granite stone found on top off one of the islands nearby, formed by the ice and dropped by the ice as it retreated!
Somewhat bizarre,I think, but very powerful statement indeed.( In Norway we tend to find long pointy stones and upend them , pointing skywards, called a bauta.)
The Monument has all the names on it and the tiny house on top, has 13 windows of gold.
I wish You all safe sailing and now I shall have a good zigar and think of the Pax and Crew of Turøy!
RIP

Kind Regards
Cpt B

[jimf671]

The first “multiple” fatality? (Every time the MR comes off - everyone dies.)
How many years/hours between the first, and the second?

How many hours till the next one? (Rhetorical)

Back in 2012/13 after the 225 ditching incidents, I dug into the numbers for large rotorcraft accidents. Based on what I found, it looks very like helicopters are dangerous. Who knew eh?

Since then, what are clearly the two safest large rotorcraft ever built, the S-92 and the 225, have done a lot of work and been involved in further incidents, one just yesterday. What is as clear as it's ever been is that if you do all the work then you'll have all of the accidents. Anyone fearing flying in a 225 or S-92 needs to take a much closer look at the alternatives in order to bring a proper sense of realism about helicopters. Some will put their faith instead in the new super-mediums and I am sure we all hope that faith is justified.

[Twist & Shout]

Back in 2012/13 after the 225 ditching incidents, I dug into the numbers for large rotorcraft accidents. Based on what I found, it looks very like helicopters are dangerous. Who knew eh?

Since then, what are clearly the two safest large rotorcraft ever built, the S-92 and the 225, have done a lot of work and been involved in further incidents, one just yesterday. What is as clear as it's ever been is that if you do all the work then you'll have all of the accidents. Anyone fearing flying in a 225 or S-92 needs to take a much closer look at the alternatives in order to bring a proper sense of realism about helicopters. Some will put their faith instead in the new super-mediums and I am sure we all hope that faith is justified.

Statistically safe.
But potentially a fatal flaw. One that is proven, and can not be detected or mitigated by the Pilot.
Flying along, enjoying the AFCS, trying not to thing about the MR system departing.

Thinking about “strapping an EC225 on” - Watch the video of the MR falling by it’s self. Look carefully at the collective movements on the FDR. Until things are clearer.

[megan]

what are clearly the two safest large rotorcraft ever built, the S-92 and the 225, have done a lot of work and been involved in further incidentsDon't forget SAS's favourite, the mighty Chinook, reliable as any machine, but had one fatal accident in the North Sea due to failure in the forward transmission.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5422fdb840f0b61342000861/2-1988_G-BWFC.pdf

[bigglesbutler]

Watch the video of the MR falling by it’s self.

I can't help but wonder at human nature, what if that video had never been recorded? Would the 225 have been as lambasted as it was and put aside? The video sent chills down my spine and still does but I would like to know what Airbus have done to the gearbox other than remove the "bad" bearing design.

Stay safe and healthy everyone.

Si

[P3 Bellows]

what if that video had never been recorded? Would the 225 have been as lambasted as it was and put aside?

Ahh the YouTube generation. If it’s not recorded it counts for nothing. Sadly, I have read all 4 accident reports and I have a vivid imagination. I’m guessing a lot of others can still use their imagination to think what the last few seconds would be like.

[RVDT]

Granted the 225 and/or the 332 is not great in the MGB department.

It is only a scaled-up version of an Alouette gearbox as the concepts are pretty much the same.

Of course, the alternatives in this size of aircraft aren't actually much better as has been proven.

Better, faster, cheaper - pick two?

[Twist & Shout]

Sure - the video of the MR system in flight was chilling, and I’m sure Airbus wish it didn’t exist.
Only a very small part of the big picture.
With no disrespect, or making light of obvious terrible tragedy. The fact that everyone on board, perished with no warning or chance, and that could happen on the next flight, is the issue, for many.

[Evil Twin]

I only flew the 225 for a couple of years and it is a great aircraft but I would NEVER fly it again. Much of my reasoning for that is Airbus Helicopters attempts to lay blame at the feet of others in the immediate aftermath, further, then failing to come up with a reason for the failure and then a satisfactory solution.