Mildura Rednecks wreck our fair go reputation

[Judd]

Bad news travels fast. Mildura police need to stop these bogans once and for all. Pity the unsuspecting students copping this racist attitudes by a few redneck idiots.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-24/mildura-flying-school-chinese-students-laser-pointers-jam-radios/12181800

[currawong]

Uh, yeah.....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-29/australian-military-aircraft-targeted-with-lasers-in-scs/11158452

[The Bullwinkle]

Uh, yeah.....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-29/australian-military-aircraft-targeted-with-lasers-in-scs/11158452
Two “Wongs” don’t make a “White”! :=

[Pinky the pilot]

Two “Wongs” don’t make a “White”!

Originally said by Arthur Caldwell IIRC.

[exfocx]

Uh, yeah.....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-29/australian-military-aircraft-targeted-with-lasers-in-scs/11158452
Curra, I don't know how you managed to conflate two different issues. One is a military problem between different countries and how they view who has what rights and the other is how dickheads behave towards others in our own country!

[j3pipercub]

How the hell does a civillian aircraft cunducting flight training IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM have similarities to anything going on the the South china Sea.

I am in no way condoning what china are doing there but ffs, lasering training aircraft is somehow tit for tat ok because they have chinese students?

[dr dre]

When you've got bogan idols like Clive Palmer (https://www.miragenews.com/palmer-blasts-wa-government-for-allowing-chinese-control-of-australian-airports/) and bogan rags like the Daily Mail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5219045/Beijing-owned-airport-NSW-increase-flights-1000.html) stirring up nonsensical hate towards training of Chinese pilots it's no surprise things like this are going to happen. Just an extension of racist attacks against those of Asian appearance in Australia since the media decided to fear-monger over coronavirus.

It's no wonder the Chinese don't just totally withdraw investment in Australian aviation given the nonsense they're being subjected to by the locals. They should be courted. They (and some other foreign owned companies) are the only ones putting money into Australian GA. I wonder how many Aussies (most of them quite young and new in their careers) are kept employed because of instructing Chinese students? No Australian seems to want to invest in GA. Could anyone look a newly graduated Grade 3 Instructor in the eye and tell them they're being made redundant because they shouldn't be training Chinese pilots in this country?

[TBM-Legend]

Well, I've exercised my free choice and now only buy Chiko Rolls in lieu of Spling Lolls!.

[JustinHeywood]

Ah, where would the Green Left be without the ABC to alert them of the latest bogan ‘atrocity’.

No racism, hatred or bigotry in the inner-city, no sir.

[Colonel_Klink]

When you've got bogan idols like Clive Palmer (https://www.miragenews.com/palmer-blasts-wa-government-for-allowing-chinese-control-of-australian-airports/) and bogan rags like the Daily Mail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5219045/Beijing-owned-airport-NSW-increase-flights-1000.html) stirring up nonsensical hate towards training of Chinese pilots it's no surprise things like this are going to happen. Just an extension of racist attacks against those of Asian appearance in Australia since the media decided to fear-monger over coronavirus.

It's no wonder the Chinese don't just totally withdraw investment in Australian aviation given the nonsense they're being subjected to by the locals. They should be courted. They (and some other foreign owned companies) are the only ones putting money into Australian GA. I wonder how many Aussies (most of them quite young and new in their careers) are kept employed because of instructing Chinese students? No Australian seems to want to invest in GA. Could anyone look a newly graduated Grade 3 Instructor in the eye and tell them they're being made redundant because they shouldn't be training Chinese pilots in this country?


Michael West Media is another one jumping on this bandwagon as well.

Now that CAE appear to be ceasing operations at Tamworth due to Coronavirus we will see the sort of impact these flying schools (read Chinese investment) have on a regional towns (and the overall economy).

[Sunfish]

The trouble is that you have to get out of bed very early to make sure you don’t get screwed by overseas investors.

[Blueyonda]

I never imagined a CEO could also be a “Mayor” in the same sitting. Hmmmm? Wouldn’t there be a conflict of interest here? Potential for subterfuge. I would like to hear from the students. Get the allegations first hand.

If there was withdrawal of Chinese students or reduction (local economic downturn) as a result of the virus, wouldn’t it be better to blame alleged local racists as apposed to a world pandemic? Just thinking out loud.

[Paragraph377]

What ever happened to the airport CEO, the ‘Garden Gnome’ Bill Burke? He is normally a very loud and proud control freak of his airport. I believe he snuck out the door quietly not too long ago. Maybe working for a Chinese consortium?

[Gnadenburg]

We need to stamp out the racism. As we need mainland Chinese investment and capital so our economy isn't crippled and we can spend money on expensive American defence equipment so some can live their fantasy that we will have to fight them.

But really, bogans are a national tragedy. A failure of our opportunities and education

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

And, a question.......

Did the affected aircraft have 'Aussie' or 'Chinese' instructors aboard?

Just curious is all.......

Cheers

[dr dre]

And, a question.......

Did the affected aircraft have 'Aussie' or 'Chinese' instructors aboard?

Just curious is all.......

Cheers

Virtually all instructors and staff members at any of these “Chinese” flying schools are Australians or westerners. For the generally flat economies of rural towns they provide an important source of skilled employment.

[SOPS]

Oh really? I thought harmless, larrikin bogans are part of the very "fair go" culture in the thread topic. Maaaaate… they're quintessentially Aussie, like vegemite, ANZACs and Dawn Fraser.

I'd be quite happy to see the Chinese pull all their money (and virus) out and hand back the farms, dairies, infrastructure, etc the short term thinkers here have sold them.

I didn't know bogans understood VHF radios. Given they know the frequencies, understand single duplex jamming and have radios these "rednecks" might in fact be your winged brethren voicing their patriotic beliefs. Depending on how things turn out (unlikely) you might be eating your words in the future as a collaborator!

I do not condone lasing aircraft........... but I've been lased flying into third world places plenty of times and it's no big deal. You see it coming and have time to look away. Report it to the tower for the benefit of those behind and move on. These laser pointers are 'blink safe' at close range and do nothing other than distract at longer ranges. And it's probably good training for these Chinese pilots given the places they will eventually fly to!

The bigger safety hazard would be the constant and overpowering fetid stench of rotting fish in unflossed teeth being breathed in close confines.

where is the like button?

[zanthrus]

Muttley Crew and SOPS. Ditto :ok:

[Pinky the pilot]

What Muttley Crew said!:ok:

[halas]

Third world? Hell, I've been lasered on final into Heathrow.

Oh. Hang on. I see what l have done there.

halas

[Eagle Eye 9]

Pointing a laser towards an aircraft is an offense! In case you didn’t know that Muttey Crew.
Looks like there are Rednecks everywhere amongst us. Grow up and argue fairly.

[Octane]

Uh, yeah.....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-29/australian-military-aircraft-targeted-with-lasers-in-scs/11158452

Can you use someones own laser to designate them as a target? Maybe a lockon would make them think :-)

[deja vu]

Boo hoo! You guys are amazing, sounds like most have never been north of the Murray. Racism!..this will be like water off a Peking ducks back. I spent 20 years living in China, I can tell you about racism, this is laughable.

Yes, this is a country of bogans, always has been, always will be. Just look at what we watch on TV or who we hold up as heroes. What is more offensive are those who see themselves as better than your average bogan.

And this myth about having a reputation of giving others a "fair go", dream on.

[das Uber Soldat]

Pointing a laser towards an aircraft is an offense! In case you didn’t know that Muttey Crew.
Looks like there are Rednecks everywhere amongst us. Grow up and argue fairly.
An admin seriously approved this post?

[dr dre]

I'd be quite happy to see the Chinese pull all their money (and virus) out and hand back the farms, dairies, infrastructure, etc the short term thinkers here have sold them.


Brushing aside the fact China is actually Australia's 9th biggest foreign investor, 35% of our trade is with China. Enough rubbish directed at them and they may actually take you up on that offer and cease their trade and sending of students to be educated in this country. And as a nation we'd be stuffed. Expect a large drop in wealth and living standards amongst all Australians.

In an Aviation context I'd gather a large proportion of flying training is conducted for Chinese students. Their aviation market is growing, and will continue to grow in the long term post Corona. A lot of Flying Instructors are employed to train those Chinese students. If they pull their students out then a lot of Instructors will be made redundant.

So I'll repeat my question from earlier in this thread:

Is anyone here prepared to look a young flying instructor in the eye and tell them they should lose their job because they personally don't want Chinese trainee pilots in the country?

[currawong]

Can you use someones own laser to designate them as a target? Maybe a lockon would make them think :-)

Erm, yes.

However state players (of which both parties here were signatories) are bound by the UN 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons/ 1995 Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons.

http://www.weaponslaw.org/instruments/1980-convention-on-certain-conventional-weapons/

Blinding laser weapons | Weapons Law Encyclopedia (http://www.weaponslaw.org/weapons/blinding-laser-weapons)

Bogans will be bogans, sometimes the problem can be alleviated with jail time.

State players that have promised not to, but do it anyway, are a different animal.

[oicur12.again]

I'd be quite happy to see the Chinese pull all their money (and virus) out and hand back the farms, dairies, infrastructure, etc the short term thinkers here have sold them.



OK, well, good luck then if that happens. China is worth more than double to Australia than its second biggest trading partner. Without China, Australia is knackered.

The Chinese kids learning circuits and bumps in Mildura have ZERO to do with government policy from Beijing, trade, investment.

Its sad the idiots abusing them dont spend the time studying up on global economics and neo liberalism, they may learn who the real enemy is.

[dr dre]

I'm glad we're all agreed on gettting rid of their investment in this country. We don't need it or them. It might hurt a bit... for a while. But we'll live.


You’ll live but look at Argentina or Greece to see what Australia’s economy will look like. It’ll hurt for a while- yeah a few decades perhaps.

For the record I don’t agree with getting rid of Chinese investment or trade at all. With a recession looming Australia will need it to survive.

[Sunfish]

It’s worth noting that of the first 56 cases, 14 came from China, 42 from the USA.

[Lead Balloon]

Without China, Australia is knackered.Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

And before you say “it’s a fact”, it is, in fact, a choice made by a few and thrust on the many. It may be that the many are willing to sacrifice self-sufficiency and instead rely on a communist dictatorship in return for ‘economic prosperity’, but the many weren’t asked. And despite the ‘economic prosperity’ the actual standard of living of the many in Australia has been going backwards for quite a while.

The flying training schools churning out foreign pilots remind me of the folly of allowing exports of herd cattle to China. Short term gain in return for a business grave in the long term.

[Gnadenburg]

Oh really? I thought harmless, larrikin bogans are part of the very "fair go" culture in the thread topic. Maaaaate… they're quintessentially Aussie, like vegemite, ANZACs and Dawn Fraser.

I'd be quite happy to see the Chinese pull all their money (and virus) out and hand back the farms, dairies, infrastructure, etc the short term thinkers here have sold them.

I didn't know bogans understood VHF radios. Given they know the frequencies, understand single duplex jamming and have radios these "rednecks" might in fact be your winged brethren voicing their patriotic beliefs. Depending on how things turn out (unlikely) you might be eating your words in the future as a collaborator!


The bigger safety hazard would be the constant and overpowering fetid stench of rotting fish in unflossed teeth being breathed in close confines.


Nothing cute about heckling, racist bogans. And by the looks of your post you have close family associations with them.

Trouble is, the future will require smart Australians, to secure and grow our economy, as well as negotiating and working within complex national defence pacts with new allies as the rise of China goes who knows where? Our traditional western military reliances are not enough. Our new allies, trading partners, investors in our economy and tourists who fall in love with our country, will be persons of colour. Our traditional western military reliances are not enough.

Racist bogans will need to wake up to these realities and generate a genuine patriotism. Otherwise their kids will be the white trash of Asia too.

And don't pull the ANZAC crap. It's a bit like Godwin's law on feverish debates of anything Australian. Sure know plenty who fought who wouldn't be proud of racist bogans who heckle the vulnerable and who feel painting their face and running around, draped in the Australian flag, once a year, constitutes an unquestionable patriotism.

[Flaming galah]

Came for the casual racism, stayed for the insightful analysis.

[oicur12.again]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

And before you say “it’s a fact”, it is, in fact, a choice made by a few and thrust on the many. It may be that the many are willing to sacrifice self-sufficiency and instead rely on a communist dictatorship in return for ‘economic prosperity’, but the many weren’t asked. And despite the ‘economic prosperity’ the actual standard of living of the many in Australia has been going backwards for quite a while.


I agree, a choice made by the wealthy and powerful clique that run our country all in the name of cheap manufacturing. We were not consulted but make no mistake, we love to participate.

Are you suggesting we should be self sufficient from China or the global market place in general? If just China, why?

When we were selling lots of cars to Saudi Arabia were you concerned that it was to a "dictatorship" also?

What do you think the outcome would be were Australia to vote on withdrawing from trade with China? "Hand the flatscreen telly back and go out and start making flat screen telly's Trevor!"

Wow, have we strayed a long way from the topic.

[Gnadenburg]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

And before you say “it’s a fact”, it is, in fact, a choice made by a few and thrust on the many. It may be that the many are willing to sacrifice self-sufficiency and instead rely on a communist dictatorship in return for ‘economic prosperity’, but the many weren’t asked. And despite the ‘economic prosperity’ the actual standard of living of the many in Australia has been going backwards for quite a while.

The flying training schools churning out foreign pilots remind me of the folly of allowing exports of herd cattle to China. Short term gain in return for a business grave in the long term.

Any reliance on China needs to be assessed on national security grounds. But how is training pilots at the most elemental civilian level a national security threat?

In a decade, forecast trade with Indonesia and India will be significantly greater. Do we pull the pin with these guys because bogans don't like Asians or colours on our city streets? Do we not increase military cooperation with both those countries, or Japan for instance, as a counter to an aggressive China?

China in some ways is trying to do what the Japanese navy could not do in 1942. Isolate Australia from a weakened America so its rise in the Pacific is unfettered. We will need a strong economy, as well as a sense of decency, beyond the ridiculous notion above of bogan fair go, to face the upcoming challenges.

[dr dre]

Trouble is, the future will require smart Australians, to secure and grow our economy, as well as negotiating and working within complex national defence pacts with new allies as the rise of China goes who knows where?


There in lies the problem. We’ve never valued intelligence, academia or book smarts in this country. We salivate over dumb sports “stars”, cashed up tradies and pollies who “speak like a true blue Aussie”. “Academic elite” is a term of scorn in Australia. In Asian society it’s the highest thing someone can aspire to. One look at the Australian media and political landscape and you see all of them pandering to the lowest common denominator. Asian society values higher education and learning.

Lee Kwan Yew was right. Australians are the “poor white trash” of Asia.

In an aviation context the one thing we can promote (basic flying training for foreign students) is attacked by locals afraid of the “Yellow menace” and populist politicians who claim these flying schools are a backdoor for a Chinese invasion. Media scaremongers about it and then politicians pander to those easily influenced by the scaremongering.

[kingRB]

Racist bogans will need to wake up to these realities and generate a genuine patriotism. Otherwise their kids will be the white trash of Asia too.


i'm sorry did you just call out racism while in the same breath referring to another group as "white trash" ?

[Hoosten]

I believe he/she was paraphrasing? Big difference.

Oh yeah, I'm with Lee.

[Lead Balloon]

I agree, a choice made by the wealthy and powerful clique that run our country all in the name of cheap manufacturing. We were not consulted but make no mistake, we love to participate. Do “we”? On what basis do you presume to speak for everyone? I think you’ll find that this pandemic has resulted in a lot more of “us” questioning the value of the “love affair” (to extend your metaphor) with China.

Are you suggesting we should be self sufficient from China or the global market place in general? If just China, why?Not just China, but at least China because it is a communist dictatorship and Chinese companies are ultimately the tools of a communist dictatorship. You may have missed the news reports of Chinese companies in Australia directing their employees to vacuum up as many medical supplies as they could get their hands on in Australia then shipping them to China earlier in the year. China’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of Australians.

When we were selling lots of cars to Saudi Arabia were you concerned that it was to a "dictatorship" also?Yes. The ruling elite there are barbaric animals. I will rejoice on the day that their oil runs out (or can’t be sold) and they have nothing left but sand to sell.

What do you think the outcome would be were Australia to vote on withdrawing from trade with China? "Hand the flatscreen telly back and go out and start making flat screen telly's Trevor!"Perhaps the standard of living of the average Australian would be better if, instead of being mature aged babies, they understood that throwing last year’s flat screen TV and other devices onto the ever-growing piles of e-waste at the rubbish tip is good for the likes of billionaires like Gerry Harvey and his counterparts in other countries, and few else.

[machtuk]

China is our largest trading partner, ya can't just turn off a tap, go to bed wake up the following day and go about business as usual! We have dug a hole so deep in this matter that there is no way out!
Our way of life revolves around 'choice'!

[Lead Balloon]

China could chose to ‘turn off the tap’. China’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of Australians.

[Gnadenburg]

I believe he/she was paraphrasing? Big difference.

Oh yeah, I'm with Lee.


Thank you.

Aussie, Aussie, Aussie.

Oiy, Oiy, Oiy.

[Gnadenburg]

China could chose to ‘turn off the tap’. China’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of Australians.

Yes. This is significant. But you don't have to be racist to understand and work to counter the threats of the CCP. COVID has been the wake up call that reveals our economic vulnerability. Poor defence planning has left us militarily vulnerable in the medium term too.

Building alternative trading partners and defence pacts won't be white. Will racist bogans accept this? Or will all of a sudden Indians or Indonesians be the flavour of their vitriol and vilification?

[ExtraShot]

44 odd posts and still no evidence that is was actually ‘Aussie Bogans’ or ‘Mildura Rednecks’ that are carrying this out...

Anything of substance?

[JustinHeywood]

There in lies the problem. We’ve [Australians] never valued intelligence, academia or book smarts in this country..... Asian society values higher education and learning.

... Australians are the “poor white trash” of Asia.

.

Never understood this argument. We're supposedly the "poor white trash" who don't value education
YET our universities are (until recently) absolutely full of Asian students hankering for an "Australian" education.

Perhaps there's a bit more nuance to the facile "we're all dumb racist bogans" meme.

[oicur12.again]

“On what basis do you presume to speak for everyone?”

On the basis that EVERYONE has a face planted in a cheap mobile phone surfing the net for the latest deal on a flat screen TV wearing a shirt that will be replaced next month for the princely sum of $20 and has bought into the wonders of free market neo liberal capitalism at its finest.

I think the way we are slaves to capitalism in the west is fundamentally flawed and we are about to find out the hard way just how flawed. However the genie is out of the bottle, several generations have been grown up thinking debt based consumption and perpetual economic growth is the norm and they are not about to volunteer to step back to a hand me down lifestyle.

“but at least China because it is a communist dictatorship and Chinese companies are ultimately the tools of a communist dictatorship.”

Most Chinese companies manufacture stuff for American and German and Australian companies and are no more or less subject to the diktats of the Government than companies in America, Germany and Australia are.

Some industries in ALL countries are closely controlled by their respective Governments, that much we can expect. My wife spent several years as an executive for a tech company here in silicon valley where it is widely understood that the big tech companies such as Google, Apple and Facebook are very closely tied to Washington, the DOD, DARPA, CIA etc.

“China’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of Australians.”

And Australia’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of China. And America’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of Australians.

“I will rejoice on the day that their oil runs out”

I will too and look forward to it with baited breath.

“Perhaps the standard of living of the average Australian would be better if, instead of being mature aged babies, they understood that throwing last year’s flat screen TV and other devices onto the ever-growing piles of e-waste at the rubbish tip is good for the likes of billionaires like Gerry Harvey and his counterparts in other countries, and few else. “

I tend to agree, see my comments above regarding the problems inherent with capitalism. But good luck convincing the average consumer that they should stop consuming.

“they also have the least similar culture or regard for anyone else's culture or even territorial rights.”

And the English did? The French? The Americans?

“YET our universities are (until recently) absolutely full of Asian students hankering for an "Australian" education.”

No, they are hankering for an education.

[Gnadenburg]

44 odd posts and still no evidence that is was actually ‘Aussie Bogans’ or ‘Mildura Rednecks’ that are carrying this out...

Anything of substance?


Indeed. False Flag not unlikely with the CCP.

With bogan racism playing into their hands. Australia will need to be a lot smarter than this.

[aussiebushflyer]

Have flown in/out of Mildura 6 times in the last 4 weeks, all Sundays, including the day of this incident and can, confirm 2 cases of radio interference. The first about 3 weeks ago was 3 calls over 15 mins of "Annoying planes go away its Sunday", the most recent illegal calls last Sunday involved some extremely racist remarks made towards students of the school and Instructors, ranging fro Go Away to Burn the Chinese like the Jews. All incidents were reported to CASA by myself. At one Stage an inbound REX flight told the person via radio they were notifying local police.

[currawong]

Have flown in/out of Mildura 6 times in the last 4 weeks, all Sundays, including the day of this incident and can, confirm 2 cases of radio interference. The first about 3 weeks ago was 3 calls over 15 mins of "Annoying planes go away its Sunday", the most recent illegal calls last Sunday involved some extremely racist remarks made towards students of the school and Instructors, ranging fro Go Away to Burn the Chinese like the Jews. All incidents were reported to CASA by myself. At one Stage an inbound REX flight told the person via radio they were notifying local police.

It would be right and proper for those responsible to be before a magistrate.

I think we can probably all agree on that, if nothing else.

[Lead Balloon]

“On what basis do you presume to speak for everyone?”

On the basis that EVERYONE has a face planted in a cheap mobile phone surfing the net for the latest deal on a flat screen TV wearing a shirt that will be replaced next month for the princely sum of $20 and has bought into the wonders of free market neo liberal capitalism at its finest.It’s ironic that you capitalised your most inaccurate overstatement.

I think the way we are slaves to capitalism in the west is fundamentally flawed and we are about to find out the hard way just how flawed. However the genie is out of the bottle, several generations have been grown up thinking debt based consumption and perpetual economic growth is the norm and they are not about to volunteer to step back to a hand me down lifestyle.I agree.

“but at least China because it is a communist dictatorship and Chinese companies are ultimately the tools of a communist dictatorship.”

Most Chinese companies manufacture stuff for American and German and Australian companies and are no more or less subject to the diktats of the Government than companies in America, Germany and Australia are. Really? So if the Australian government issued a ‘diktat’ to - say - Qantas - to identify and sack all Uyghur employees and all homosexual employees, ya reckon Qantas would comply? Really?

Some industries in ALL countries are closely controlled by their respective Governments, that much we can expect. My wife spent several years as an executive for a tech company here in silicon valley where it is widely understood that the big tech companies such as Google, Apple and Facebook are very closely tied to Washington, the DOD, DARPA, CIA etc.No ****?

“China’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of Australians.”

And Australia’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of China. And America’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of Australians. No ****?

“I will rejoice on the day that their oil runs out”

I will too and look forward to it with baited breath. At least I know you’re a real pilot. It’s “bated”.

“Perhaps the standard of living of the average Australian would be better if, instead of being mature aged babies, they understood that throwing last year’s flat screen TV and other devices onto the ever-growing piles of e-waste at the rubbish tip is good for the likes of billionaires like Gerry Harvey and his counterparts in other countries, and few else. “

I tend to agree, see my comments above regarding the problems inherent with capitalism. But good luck convincing the average consumer that they should stop consuming. I don’t have to convince anyone. They’ll be convinced by reality that’s thrust upon them.

“they also have the least similar culture or regard for anyone else's culture or even territorial rights.”

And the English did? The French? The Americans? The English, French and Americans respect, protect and enforce our intellectual property rights and law of the sea rights, as does Australia theirs. The Chinese don’t. One of the reasons ‘the West’ has concerns about entering free trade agreements with China is that China does not respect intellectual property laws. All those Chinese student pilots in Australia will take back a copy of every piece of training material they can get their hands on. Slowly but steadily all those Australian flying training organisations will be replicated, to a lesser or greater extent, in China. They won’t get it anywhere near right the first time, but they are in it for the long game.

“YET our universities are (until recently) absolutely full of Asian students hankering for an "Australian" education.”

No, they are hankering for an education.Google “CCP influence in Australian universities”.

[dr dre]

Never understood this argument. We're supposedly the "poor white trash" who don't value education
YET our universities are (until recently) absolutely full of Asian students hankering for an "Australian" education.

Asians value education so much they are quite willing to move all around the world to get one.
And more so in culture. Higher education and learning is seen as the pinnacle of achievement. You’ll never find a tradie in Asia earning more than someone with university qualifications. And a pinnacle of respect. You’ll never find the average Asian person loudly exclaiming they know more than “Academic elites”, which I hear in Australia all the time.

Higher education and knowledge will be the most valuable human resource of the 21st century.



Lee Kuan Yew might've been right about trash but he presided over a nation which was, and still is, one step away from ****ting in the streets so what do I care what he thought. As pointed out earlier - if you want real racism, try Asia.

So the country that is probably the cleanest in the world, has a murder rate 1/4th of Australia’s, has a higher GDP per capita, a higher life expectancy and a greater high school graduation rate than Australia is “one step away from ****ting in the streets” according to your logic??

I’d lhate to see what you think of an actual third world country.

[Sunfish]

Lead Balloon: The English, French and Americans respect, protect and enforce our intellectual property rights and law of the sea rights, as does Australia theirs. The Chinese don’t. One of the reasons ‘the West’ has concerns about entering free trade agreements with China is that China does not respect intellectual property laws. All those Chinese student pilots in Australia will take back a copy of every piece of training material they can get their hands on. Slowly but steadily all those Australian flying training organisations will be replicated, to a lesser or greater extent, in China. They won’t get it anywhere near right the first time, but they are in it for the long game.


Bull****. Everyone who can steals Intellectual Property ALL THE TIME. I’ve watched them do it. Furthermore, even the Chinese will cease and desist if caught red handed and a big enough fuss is made. The Israelis are just as bad as the Chinese and Americans.

[Lead Balloon]

Gosh. So do the English, the USA and France steal IP as much as China does?

Yesterday a Chinese state media editor described Australia as “gum stuck to the bottom of China’s shoe”. A refreshingly honest expression of China’s attitude.

[dr dre]

Yesterday a Chinese state media editor described Australia as “gum stuck to the bottom of China’s shoe”. A refreshingly honest expression of China’s attitude.

Well, we are. Their GDP is 20 times higher and rising. Their population is 50 times higher. We need them more than they need us. There’s other deposits of minerals in the world. There’s other sources of food, other countries with universities and free space to operate flying schools.

It may upset some here to read this, but Australia is gum on the bottom of China’s shoe and they could easily pull us off and discard us. How many instructors will lose their jobs because China finds a new location to train their pilots? A lot of keyboard heroes here but none willing to admit the consequences of their desires on our nation.

[zanthrus]

F*ck China, their students, (who wreck our housing market), and their "investment in Australia"

I am happy to pay more for manufactured goods from anywhere in the world except from China.

They can all get stuffed!

[Lead Balloon]

Well, we are. Their GDP is 20 times higher and rising. Their population is 50 times higher. We need them more than they need us. There’s other deposits of minerals in the world. There’s other sources of food, other countries with universities and free space to operate flying schools.

It may upset some here to read this, but Australia is gum on the bottom of China’s shoe and they could easily pull us off and discard us. How many instructors will lose their jobs because China finds a new location to train their pilots? A lot of keyboard heroes here but none willing to admit the consequences of their desires on our nation.
Indeed, dr dre.

China could easily discard Australia. It may choose to do so. Do you have a ‘Plan B’ for that contingency?

All those instructors are digging career graves, if not for themselves for those aspiring to be instructors in the future. China will find a new location to train their pilots. It’s a place called “China”.

As I said before, all those Australian-trained Chinese pilots are taking the know-how back home. It’s like the Australian farmers who are exporting herd cattle to China. One day China will say thanks for the know how (and the cattle), we now have the critical mass to do this ourselves, and goodbye.

There are short-term gains from sucking up to China. A lot of keyboard heroes are not willing to admit the long-term consequences of doing so.

Some of us desire a thriving flying training industry that’s training Australians to meet the demands of what should be a thriving general aviation sector in Australia. Unfortunately for the long-term interests of Australia (and flying instructors), the place is run on the basis of the the laziest way to the quickest bucks (and cheapest flat-screen TVs).

[oicur12.again]

“It’s ironic that you capitalised your most inaccurate overstatement”

An over statement?

No ****, to use your highly evolved writing style.

“Really? So if the Australian government issued a ‘diktat’ to - say - Qantas - to identify and sack all Uyghur employees and all homosexual employees, ya reckon Qantas would comply? Really?”

No, I very much doubt it. Social issues such as LGBT rights and the treatment of ethnic minorities is not really what I had in mind when making my comment about the Chinese Government and their strategic relationship with private industry. I see it as no different to the relationship in Australia. Look no further than private contractors in Manus Island assisting the Government in significant violations of human rights.

“At least I know you’re a real pilot. It’s “bated”.”

At least I know you’re an Australian pilot, focussed on the completely unimportant.

“The English, French and Americans respect, protect and enforce our intellectual property rights”

It would be very naive to think we in the west comply with international IP law. Take a look at vault 7, learn about some of the malware programs designed by the CIA specifically to steal IP.

“…..and law of the sea rights, as does Australia theirs.”

Where do you think Australia stands when it comes to flying illegal combat operations in the Middle East? Do you think we give a **** about other countries sovereignty?

“One of the reasons ‘the West’ has concerns about entering free trade agreements with China is that China does not respect intellectual property laws.”

Read up about the Triffin Dilemma and learn why America has a massive trade deficit with China. It has nothing to do with IP.

“As I said before, all those Australian-trained Chinese pilots are taking the know-how back home”

Isn’t that the point of training?

[dr dre]

F*ck China, their students, (who wreck our housing market), and their "investment in Australia"


Any properties sold to Chinese were sold by Australians. Chinese students didn’t push the price of an average 4 bed family home in Sydney and Melbourne to over a million dollars so don’t blame them. Don’t blame foreigners at all because less than 10% of property sales in Australia are made to foreigners (Chinese or others). Blame the Australians who created a system that pushed housing prices to ridiculously unaffordable levels.

I welcome Chinese students. They are better behaved, more law abiding, more respectful, more polite than a lot of Australian students who’ll give you a lesson on being disruptive, lazy, unprepared and spending more time worried about how drunk they can get on weekends than studying. Those Chinese students allow thousands of aviation professionals to put food on the table, pay bills, have a roof over their heads and have a career in Aviation.

I can see now why there’s hate being directed over airwaves at Chinese trainee pilots, an easily influenced population fearmongered to the point they want to irrationally lash out at those they perceive as an enemy. I fear for the safety of those here who are of Asian appearance, whether they are Chinese, Australian or others.

[LexAir]

The flood of Chinese students into Australia is over and it it won't restart. Once this current batch of students is finished there will be little to no inflow of new Chinese students. They already have massive flying schools in China turning out 2000 pilots a year per school. The school at Chengdu - Civil Aviation Flying University of China - is an example. I have been there and it is not going away. the current situation will focus China more on domestic training utilising its current assets.

[dr dre]

Indeed, dr dre.

China could easily discard Australia. It may choose to do so. Do you have a ‘Plan B’ for that contingency?



The future (or by some metrics current) world power should be the market we aim to sell our products to the most. Our country is an Asian-Pacific one. Not a European or American one. Via the BRI China will dominate trade through Eurasia and the Pacific. All of Australia’s neighbours and trading partners. There’s evidence now that even traditional Chinese adversaries like Japan are warming their relationships with China. So either we join the Asia Pacific region fully or we become a pointless little outpost in the middle of nowhere.

Maybe a non Chinese trade pact could’ve been made via the TPP but the orange one decided to pull out so any chance of the waning world power having substantial influence in the Asia Pacific died at that point.

So my “Plan B” is to develop and strengthen our links to China and the Asia Pacific over any others. Not have ridiculous scaremongering directed against them by some elements of our government and media.

[Square Bear]

The Chinese Government has been ramping up its "World Order" for quite some time and seems to be using the current financial crises of other countries to ramp it up even more. This being seen in one instance by its Ambassador to Australia, Chen Jingye's latest effort in his boycott diplomacy in order to shape the minds of politicians and citizens alike. (Boycott diplomacy being that which links political disputes to specific consumer responses).

If the China / Australia relationship tracks way the Chinese Government indicate they want it too, it will be akin to the "battered wife syndrome" because Australia having the "audacity" to have a different mindset to both them and communism.

But as usual the apologist for everything that China does, those commentators who bag their own country because they can, and those that accept anyones piece of silver is good, will sprout that it would be racist not to accept this position, and that any financial benefit for themselves will worth the loss of any self respect.

What next, maybe cargo cult mentality for Australia?

[deja vu]

The flood of Chinese students into Australia is over and it it won't restart. Once this current batch of students is finished there will be little to no inflow of new Chinese students. They already have massive flying schools in China turning out 2000 pilots a year per school. The school at Chengdu - Civil Aviation Flying University of China - is an example. I have been there and it is not going away. the current situation will focus China more on domestic training utilising its current assets.
Good luck with ab initio training in Chengdu. I operated into there regularly for years, never were conditions anywhere near VMC. Australia will only be a training destination as long as China needs it, this was always the case.

[LexAir]

Does not stop them graduating 2000 pilots a year though. When I was there I visited the control tower and observed numerous "VFR" flights in less than VMC.

[Gnadenburg]

But as usual the apologist for everything that China does, those commentators who bag their own country because they can, and those that accept anyones piece of silver is good, will sprout that it would be racist not to accept this position, and that any financial benefit for themselves will worth the loss of any self respect.

I hope you are not suggesting, folks speaking up against bogan racists, makes them in anyways communist Chinese apologists?

The security and economic challenges for Australia moving forward are immense. We can not immediately decouple from China and why should we? However, few above who say chop them off now, seem aware of how China-dependent we are in so many critical areas of our society- this must change. This has been a security concern for a number of years and ignored.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-29/military-leaders-warn-australia-prepare-for-worse-coronavirus/12193228?utm_source=abc_news&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_content=link&utm_campaign=abc_news

[deja vu]

Does not stop them graduating 2000 pilots a year though. When I was there I visited the control tower and observed numerous "VFR" flights in less than VMC.
LOL. We are obviously talking about a different Chengdu, the one I'm talking about has heavy 100-200ton machines coming and going every 90 seconds all day long, no way there are bug smashers operating VFR in IMC conditions at a place like that, not even in China. Graduating 2000 pilots a year as what?, to what standard?, to what acceptable licence?

[Square Bear]

Gnadenburg

I don’t support racism, bigots or bullies in any way, in any race, so rest assured I am not calling those speaking up against racist bogans apologists for communist China.

[dr dre]

The flood of Chinese students into Australia is over and it it won't restart. Once this current batch of students is finished there will be little to no inflow of new Chinese students.

So why have they bought up all these country airports and flying schools with a long term view of training students in Australia if they have no intentions to send more??

Let me guess, it’s all a secretive Chinese plot to use these airports as a staging point for a backdoor invasion of the country???

And before anyone says even that suggestion is far too ludicrous for the conspiracy theorists.....:

Chinese controlled airfield

[ExtraShot]

folks speaking up against bogan racists

Still waiting for the proof these are ‘redneck’ and ‘bogan’ racists...

It could be any number of other things.
-Bored School Kids
-someone who’s mentally ill or deranged
-someone trying to garner sympathy for their business that hasn’t been welcomed into the community
​​​​​​-and yes, it could just as likely be certain entities attempting using our society’s well know introspective hypersensitivity to our own ‘racism’ against us
- or yes, it could be moronic ‘bogans’

but no one has provided any proof for or against any of these.

[Lead Balloon]

Some seem not to comprehend the current mood of the Australian Federal government - supported by large swathes of the community - and the current mood of the Chinese government. The Australian government is pissing the Chinese government off, knowing that the Australian government is pissing the Chinese government off. And that’s notwithstanding that members of the party in power in Australia (like the opposition) take generous donations from Chinese - what’s the term for them - ‘colourful characters’ and understands full well the economic benefits of a positive relationship with the Chinese government.

If you think that the Australian government is going to allow a return to ‘business as usual’ for foreign investment from Chinese entities and entry of foreign nationals any time soon, and be overwhelmingly supported by the electorate in doing so, I’d urge more research. And it’s always open to the Chinese government to wipe the Australian gum off its shoe.

Nothing to do with tin foil hats and conspiracy theories. Australia’s abject vulnerability as a consequence of matters that should be but are not in its control has been brought into stark(er) relief by C19.

[packapoo]

Is this why there is a large, self contained facility at Mildura set up and ready to take refugees from Australia's East Island in an attempt to kick off the NRL season?
Seems some of the, cough, cough, not so local teams may also utilise the facility.
Guessing it was previously home to trainee pilots.

[rodney rude]

Dr Dre you make very valid and strong, logical points. China IS very important to us, but they are like your beautiful 8 year old son who is going off the rails. You love him, you need him in your life, but he is a very naughty boy and you have to tell him so. You have to provide discipline, education - but most importantly, you have to mold him into a solid corporate citizen, someone who has a valuable contribution to make to society and someone who follows the rules of life. And this is where China fails. They are a very important global player. Their contribution to our economy is massive and imperative. Look at aviation = where would the flying schools of Australia be without these Chinese students?

BUT BUT BUT - does that all mean we just let China do what it wants? What they are doing in the South China Sea with the Spratleys and other islands. To just move in and build bases illegally and basically say to the world "well what are you gunna do about it?" - and they get away with it. They gaoled doctors who were reporting COVID - and then lie about it. And they now threaten Australia because we are pushing for an enquiry. Come on.... really??. They know they screwed up, but they threaten anyone who wants to see what happened, why it happened, and how we can prevent it again. Clearly they have something to hide. These are NOT the actions of a solid world citizen - we must protect our economy, but nothing must stop China from being held to account for terrible behaviour in a world context.

I note in a very early post on here a quote from the ATSB about Mildura - "nothing to see here, there's only been 4 reports in the last year." (those figures are not correct, just can't be bothered going back and finding it). But whatever the number is - very typical of a USELESS organisation. Our company alone has submitted about a dozen reports over the last 6 months alone about the dangerous situation that Mildura has become. Good old ATSB - never let truth get in the way of your incompetence.

[NumptyAussie]

Still waiting for the proof these are ‘redneck’ and ‘bogan’ racists...

It could be any number of other things.
-Bored School Kids
-someone who’s mentally ill or deranged
-someone trying to garner sympathy for their business that hasn’t been welcomed into the community
​​​​​​-and yes, it could just as likely be certain entities attempting using our society’s well know introspective hypersensitivity to our own ‘racism’ against us
- or yes, it could be moronic ‘bogans’

but no one has provided any proof for or against any of these.

So, you are waiting, on a rumour web site, for someone to provide you with proof?

[LexAir]

LOL. We are obviously talking about a different Chengdu, the one I'm talking about has heavy 100-200ton machines coming and going every 90 seconds all day long, no way there are bug smashers operating VFR in IMC conditions at a place like that, not even in China. Graduating 2000 pilots a year as what?, to what standard?, to what acceptable licence?
There is more than one airport in that area. To what standard and to what acceptable licence? Well there is the question!

[ExtraShot]

So, you are waiting, on a rumour web site, for someone to provide you with proof?

The title of the thread suggests ‘Mildura Rednecks’ aren’t giving people the Aussie ‘fair go’, while denying from the very first post, said ‘Mildura Rednecks’ with said ‘fair go’.

Ironic.

[poteroo]

“On what basis do you presume to speak for everyone?”

On the basis that EVERYONE has a face planted in a cheap mobile phone surfing the net for the latest deal on a flat screen TV wearing a shirt that will be replaced next month for the princely sum of $20 and has bought into the wonders of free market neo liberal capitalism at its finest.

I think the way we are slaves to capitalism in the west is fundamentally flawed and we are about to find out the hard way just how flawed. However the genie is out of the bottle, several generations have been grown up thinking debt based consumption and perpetual economic growth is the norm and they are not about to volunteer to step back to a hand me down lifestyle.

“but at least China because it is a communist dictatorship and Chinese companies are ultimately the tools of a communist dictatorship.”

Most Chinese companies manufacture stuff for American and German and Australian companies and are no more or less subject to the diktats of the Government than companies in America, Germany and Australia are.

Some industries in ALL countries are closely controlled by their respective Governments, that much we can expect. My wife spent several years as an executive for a tech company here in silicon valley where it is widely understood that the big tech companies such as Google, Apple and Facebook are very closely tied to Washington, the DOD, DARPA, CIA etc.

“China’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of Australians.”

And Australia’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of China. And America’s long term plans are not implemented for the benefit of Australians.

“I will rejoice on the day that their oil runs out”

I will too and look forward to it with baited breath.

“Perhaps the standard of living of the average Australian would be better if, instead of being mature aged babies, they understood that throwing last year’s flat screen TV and other devices onto the ever-growing piles of e-waste at the rubbish tip is good for the likes of billionaires like Gerry Harvey and his counterparts in other countries, and few else. “

I tend to agree, see my comments above regarding the problems inherent with capitalism. But good luck convincing the average consumer that they should stop consuming.

“they also have the least similar culture or regard for anyone else's culture or even territorial rights.”

And the English did? The French? The Americans?

“YET our universities are (until recently) absolutely full of Asian students hankering for an "Australian" education.”

No, they are hankering for an education.

I'm less convinced about the 'education' aspect. Only a couple of Aussie universities rank in the top 20, or even 50, in the world. There are/were over 200,000 Chinese uni students paying good money for an 'education' here. Whether they do so for the education per se, or for the very generous potential for post degree working 'rights', plus the migration potential, is debatable.

If you follow the current 'tertiary education' debate, then you'd have read (Prof.) Peter Van Onselens' section in the last Weekend Australian. He is certainly not a current government supporter - rather, quite a critic. Yet, in his own words..............

But the comparative advantage Australian universities have enjoyed has been built on location, location, and location. That is, the lifestyle benefits of studying here, and experiencing Australia, alongside the potential to migrate Down Under once you are finished.
The backdoor visa system for foreign students at the completion of their studies has been the dirty little secret of the success of Australias' 2nd largest export sector. It is why so many students in our region have chosen Australian universities over universities in other parts of the world. Migrate to a great place to live, and not too far from home.

There you go: quality of education, or a better place to live? It's done via a visa and an airline ticket, rather than USD10,000, and a leaking fishing boat!

The discussion about Chinese aviation studies students pales into insignificance against the numbers involved in the greater tertiary sector, where the real money is being made. A cessation of flying training of Chinese pilots will make barely a ripple on the industry. The possible disappearance of the majority of the Chinese at Australian universities will create a massive black hole in our export income, and this seems to have been overlooked in recent times by our intemperate federal government. Loss of students won't be about 'racism' or the actions of a few ignorants, it will be by CCP policy and directions to the Chinese citizenry.

happy days,

[dr dre]

China IS very important to us, but they are like your beautiful 8 year old son who is going off the rails. You love him, you need him in your life, but he is a very naughty boy and you have to tell him so.

For that analogy to be correct the child would have to be 50 times larger than the parent and about 2000 years older.

Most Australians (and westerners) forget they are dealing with a history, culture and people who go back a lot, lot longer than Australia has been around. The thought our little minnow of a country is going to influence them in any way is hilarious.

Just to put that comparison in context, it would be like a nation the size of the Solomon Islands or the GDP of PNG dictating how Australia should act. Australians would be pissing their pants laughing if either one of them tried, but that’s how Australians are acting here to a country of comparative size.

[ExtraShot]

It doesn't matter anyway because Gnadenburg thinks the aircraft were lasered by agents of the Chinese Communist Party who are here to destabilise our system by impersonating rednecks.

I did indicate that is a possibility. Not saying it’s likely but I’m the absence of information to the contrary it’s the same as accusing ‘bogans’ outright, or whatever else for that matter.

[International Trader]

Aah, Muttley Crew, I can still smell that stench and only those who have experienced it will ever know what we mean.

A couple of 'off' radio calls and a few lasers, get your hands off it!
I have had that in Australia.
I experienced far worse in dealing with some people in Asia and in one particular part of Asia.

Mildura wrecks our 'fair go reputation'- Bul--it!
Westerners are seen as soft and known to buckle the moment the "racist' card is played.
As I was often told in dealings in China and other parts of Asia ; 'you cannot do this or that ( even though you are entitled to ) because, you are not Chinese'.
The university study ploy is an old scam that will come back to bite us on the behind as will foreign investment.


I could say so much more .

[JustinHeywood]

Most Australians (and westerners) forget they are dealing with a history, culture and people who go back a lot, lot longer than Australia has been around. The thought our little minnow of a country is going to influence them in any way is hilarious.

Just to put that comparison in context, it would be like a nation the size of the Solomon Islands or the GDP of PNG dictating how Australia should act. Australians would be pissing their pants laughing if either one of them tried, but that’s how Australians are acting here to a country of comparative size.

Really? I think most Australians are quite aware that China is a big nation and an old culture. It is also a repressive totalitarian state, also a fact known to most Australians (and Westerners). Just because people don't see things your way does not mean that they're stupid.

The fact that we are relatively small does not mean that we can't or shouldn't speak up when we feel the need to do so, particularly when China's actions have a direct effect on us.

Anti-Chinese sentiment has been around since at least the gold rushes. But I don't think that the current concern about the increasing influence of China can be dismissed as racism.

China has been by far the largest foreign investor in Australia for the last several years and is the largest foreign owner of agricultural land. Personally, I'm happy to sell China our products, but not happy that they own so much of our land and resources. I believe that most Australians (and Westerners) believe that under the Xi regime they have not been good global citizens, and their aggressive expansionism is a cause for real concern for those of us in the Pacific.

[golder]

Come on guys. It's a click bait story. How the fuk can the wanka kids, tell if it's an aussie or chinese student flying the plane. Or even if it was even a student training flight, at a busy country airport.

[deja vu]

There is more than one airport in that area. To what standard and to what acceptable licence? Well there is the question!
I would suggest you are making all this up. Only other airports around would be military as is all the airspace. Are you familiar with the terrain around Chengdu,? it's completely unsuitable for training. But please go ahead and tell us all the name of the airport where you visited the tower.

[LexAir]

What possible motive would I have for making this up?
The training airport is located at Guanghan, which is only 14 miles from Chengdu.
You will note I named the institution which utilises the airport in question. If you would care to do your research instead of calling me a lier you could have confirmed this. You may have flown into Chengdu but you are clearly ignorant about the broader Chinese aviation scene beyond the civilian commercial airports.

[NumptyAussie]

The monologue above,by Mutt, reminds me of the British Empire...

[prickly]

The monologue above,by Mutt, reminds me of the British Empire...
Your 10 word response suggests you would need reminding, .........constantly.

Motley....anyone with any direct or significant contact with those in question would have to give you 10 out of 10 for your last post.

[prickly]

Muttley, you obviously have some personal experience as I do. Love your work. Sadly you can't fix stupid or the PC warriors.

[dr dre]

May I further correct your analogy?
Yes, your kid would be 2000yo but he spent the first 1950 years as a mongoloid no one cared about, sitting in the back corner of the classroom, picking his nose and urinating on the floor without shame.

It’s going to be so easy for China to dominate the West when those “defenders of Western Civilisation” come up with rubbish like this.

A mongoloid no one cared about. China was quite advanced in the fields of science, manufacturing, astronomy, innovation, economics, trade, art and engineering, especially ahead of Europe in the Dark Ages. Ask Marco Polo if he thought of the Chinese as “Mongoloids”. He admired them as far back as the 13th century and saw them as more civilised than Europeans. Most of European age of exploration was to find better trade routes to the Chinese economy. Napoleon certainly saw their future power and capability. I think some very important people in world history cared a lot about China.

sitting in the back corner of the classroom. In fact quite a few historians hold the view that China was the quietly dominant world power up until the beginning of the “Century of Humiliation”, and all we are seeing now is the final step of a rise back to their previous status.

Like I’ve said Westerners truly don’t know enough about China to judge it properly, because if you think of their place in the global order for the majority of the last 2000 years as “picking their nose and urinating on the floor without shame” you truly don’t know what you are talking about.

[NumptyAussie]

[QUOTE=prickly;10769134]Your 10 word response suggests you would need reminding, .........constantly.

11 words....

[Square Bear]

I call dr dre out as having racist Tendencies himself, he has gone past the point of debate, seemingly to have taken on a role of an fanatic to the point of extolling a belief that indicates that China is “in the final step of a rise back to their previous status” ....of the dominant world power (slightly paraphrased, but dre’s words all the same).

What this political hijack to do with Professional Aviation in the Australian, New Zealand and Pacific Aviation region is beyond me and, at least in IMHO, is better suited to another rambling chapter of “the little red book” as published circa 1966, or at the very least Jet Blast.

再见

[Lead Balloon]

It’s going to be so easy for China to dominate the West when those “defenders of Western Civilisation” come up with rubbish like this.

A mongoloid no one cared about. China was quite advanced in the fields of science, manufacturing, astronomy, innovation, economics, trade, art and engineering, especially ahead of Europe in the Dark Ages. Ask Marco Polo if he thought of the Chinese as “Mongoloids”. He admired them as far back as the 13th century and saw them as more civilised than Europeans. Most of European age of exploration was to find better trade routes to the Chinese economy. Napoleon certainly saw their future power and capability. I think some very important people in world history cared a lot about China.

sitting in the back corner of the classroom. In fact quite a few historians hold the view that China was the quietly dominant world power up until the beginning of the “Century of Humiliation”, and all we are seeing now is the final step of a rise back to their previous status.

Like I’ve said Westerners truly don’t know enough about China to judge it properly, because if you think of their place in the global order for the majority of the last 2000 years as “picking their nose and urinating on the floor without shame” you truly don’t know what you are talking about.
You are correct, dr dre. China is probably the biggest economy on the planet (and has been for a while recently, after definitely being so during most of the 19th century). China is and almost always was an extraordinarily powerful military and technological country.

The fact remains: The extent of Australia’s engagement with China remains a choice (for now). That engagement has enormous monetary benefits, but it still comes at a cost. Lots of Australians are questioning whether the cost is worth the benefits. Many are saying: No.

It may be that some of that many will return to mature-aged baby status when confronted with the prospect of more expensive goods and services in return for increased national self-sufficiency. We’ll see when folks vote.

If I had to bet folding money I’d bet on the mature-aged babies swaying the politicians (many of whom don’t need to be swayed) to return to the ‘quickest buck made in the laziest way’ trading arrangements. So: There’s probably going to be a return to the foreign student rivers of gold eventually. Yay!

[oicur12.again]

“BUT BUT BUT - does that all mean we just let China do what it wants? What they are doing in the South China Sea with the Spratleys and other islands. To just move in and build bases illegally and basically say to the world "well what are you gunna do about it?" - and they get away with it.”

The Chinese have no less a claim to the Spratleys which are 500 miles away from China than the English do over the Falklands which are 8000 miles from England or the Americans over Guam which are 5000 miles from America.

America officially has over 800 bases worldwide in over 80 countries and as was recently discovered by accident it has troops conducting military operations in 20 countries in Africa alone along with the more high profile wars being fought in the Middle East and soon to be South America.

The US has been involved in military operations in over 50 countries since WW2 and since the country was founded in 1776 has been at war every single year except 7.

Can we say China comes even close to this with its SEVERAL foreign military bases.

“That engagement has enormous monetary benefits, but it still comes at a cost”

It comes at a cost being “engaged” with the US too by being strong armed into spending horrendous amounts of money on US weapons (one of the highest/GDP of the developed world) and then being conned into supporting war crimes while fighting US resource wars on the other side of the planet in countries that pose zero threat to Australia.

[dr dre]

It comes at a cost being “engaged” with the US too by being strong armed into spending horrendous amounts of money on US weapons (one of the highest/GDP of the developed world) and then being conned into supporting war crimes while fighting US resource wars on the other side of the planet in countries that pose zero threat to Australia.

Absolutely.

It’s hypocritical for Australia to attack China’s human rights record. I don’t see China invading too many countries recently sparking conflicts that kill millions after a campaign of lies. I don’t see Chinese special forces murdering unarmed farmers in Afghanistan and then lying about it, unlike our own “SAS heroes”. China does have human rights issues but let’s not pretend Australia is without fault.

Now back to the issue at hand, how to ensure Chinese trainee pilots are able to feel welcome and safe in Australia despite any racist abuse they cop. I hope anyone who can identify those in the community who would perform such disgusting things would dob them in to them in to the relevant authorities. Otherwise struggling local towns will lose a business supporting skilled employees, causing them to struggle further. I don’t think the way Chinese students have been spoken to and treated counts under the so called “Aussie Fair Go”.

[Iron Bar]

“A mongoloid no one cared about. China was quite advanced in the fields of science, manufacturing, astronomy, innovation, economics, trade, art and engineering, especially ahead of Europe in the Dark Ages.”

They certainly were advanced, until our mate Chairman Mao, his red guards and the cultural revolution sorted that.

Artists, teachers, professors, economists, scientists and doctors all dispatched as enemies of the communist good. Corrupt party members and mythical economic claims then became and still is the way of China

The once advanced society has been destroyed and replaced by a criminal, malignant, incompetent CCP. The place is now an Orwellian state run by the bastard progeny of the Great Leap Forward.

[KABOY]

Can we say China comes even close to this with its SEVERAL foreign military bases.


It seems you are losing perspective with this statement.

China has now become the master of chequebook diplomacy, by taking overseas national strategic assets and bringing them under state control. Sri Lanka, Cook Islands, West Africa. You do realise these are now becoming indebted states, military bases are not required. What do you think the 'Belt and Road' project is?

The socialist beliefs that China espouses are only there to keep their citizens in a belief that their wealth is being generated from them, not the capitalist economies which China has capitalised on under their socialist labour models.

Do you believe that China adopts first world labour laws? Socialism needs Union recognition, is China adapting this model?

Nationalistic attitudes are now taking over, China and their information control doest work outside their borders, it only creates resentment and further divide.

Tell me, who are the lesser racists? China or the West?

[oicur12.again]

“You'd prefer it was the other way around? “

My preference is neither super power, past or present, engage in large scale warfare in order to spread their reach.

“China has now become the master of chequebook diplomacy, by taking overseas national strategic assets and bringing them under state control.”

Yes, they have, I am not denying that at all.

My comment was in reply to rodney rude suggesting that China should not be permitted to build its bases some 500 miles from its front door, I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy.

I totally agree, China is extending its reach more and more every day and I am not suggesting that this will be problem free.

However, unlike America and its lackeys such as Australia who have gained the spoils of globalization through the barrel of a gun, the Chinese appear at this stage to be doing it with “cheque book diplomacy” and so far the body count appears to be zero.

Perhaps thats not important to you as (white) Australia has never suffered at the hands of aggressive empire, it has always been the little kid egging the bully on from a position of safety.

But ask someone from Iraq or Syria or Yemen or Honduras or Vietnam or Laos or Cambodia how they feel about American “capitalism” and I guarantee you they would choose “cheque book diplomacy” every time.

“Do you believe that China adopts first world labour laws?”

No, of course they don’t, its one of the reasons why western companies move their manufacturing facilities there.

They are fully aware of poor labor standards and health and safety levels and only ever change things when the press occasionally penetrate the system and embarrass them. Even then they return to their old ways as soon as the spotlight goes away. Our entire system of consumption is predicated on exploiting workers in the third world.

“Tell me, who are the lesser racists? China or the West?”

Neither. The west has a pretense of not being racist however racism is a fact of life in the west from casual racism in the street to deeply embedded in Government policy.

[Half Baked]

OICUR12

Spoken like a true socialist who resides in the world's largest capitalist market.

The very fact that every luxury you have enjoyed throughout your very priveged life has been garnished through your apparent disdain for western values I find extremely hypocritical.

And btw, no one on this site, past nor present, was here in 1770 nor 1788, so let's stop with the anti white Australia rhetoric shall we! I'm not ashamed of my heritage; nobody here was responsible for what happened way back when, but there seem to be many left wing inner city social elite white apologists here!

You can't rewrite history, although the curriculum in this country via subterfuge of the the likes of those mentioned above, is hellbent on espousing a different version!

[Ladloy]

OICUR12

Spoken like a true socialist who resides in the world's largest capitalist market.

The very fact that every luxury you have enjoyed throughout your very priveged life has been garnished through your apparent disdain for western values I find extremely hypocritical.

And btw, no one on this site, past nor present, was here in 1770 nor 1788, so let's stop with the anti white Australia rhetoric shall we! I'm not ashamed of my heritage; nobody here was responsible for what happened way back when, but there seem to be many left wing inner city social elite white apologists here!

You can't rewrite history, although the curriculum in this country via subterfuge of the the likes of those mentioned above, is hellbent on espousing a different version!

Jesus, surprised you didn't use the term snowflake in there. I love when people believe any disagreement means the person must be a socialist or communist. **** off to the USA if you're going to act like that.
Oicur is definitely not picking a side and showing both super powers engage in the same questionable acts. There's no winner here if Aus picks USA or China and we should dance on the line and capitalise on both.

[machtuk]

Jesus, surprised you didn't use the term snowflake in there. I love when people believe any disagreement means the person must be a socialist or communist. **** off to the USA if you're going to act like that.
Oicur is definitely not picking a side and showing both super powers engage in the same questionable acts. There's no winner here if Aus picks USA or China and we should dance on the line and capitalise on both.

well said! -)

[oicur12.again]

“Spoken like a true socialist who resides in the world's largest capitalist market.”

Incorrect on both counts but if applying simplistic labels helps you sleep at night then feel free.

“…apparent disdain for western values”

I am not really sure what “western values” you think I have displayed a disdain for?

Perhaps you could provide some insight.

“…showing both super powers engage in the same questionable acts.”

This is pretty much the crux of what I am getting at but I do find it troubling that so many people in society are blinkered to the atrocities committed in our name by our Government.

[KABOY]

However, unlike America and its lackeys such as Australia who have gained the spoils of globalization through the barrel of a gun

Can you clarify how globalisation has been established through the 'barrel of a gun' ? If anything it has been established through the third world laws and low labour cost that countries such as China. Vietnam, Cambodia offer.

The west has a pretense of not being racist however racism is a fact of life in the west from casual racism in the street to deeply embedded in Government policy.

Is this the same as the racist policy that has locked out global business establishing companies without submitting to handing over intellectual property, or agreeing to joint ventures where the state takes effective control of any foreign investment?

I believeChina is creating racism globally, and their reluctance to share information with this pandemic only highlights their contempt for western values.

Should we discuss Uighurs and their non racist handling by China? I don't see many western governments adapting this policy.

[Gnadenburg]

“BUT BUT BUT - does that all mean we just let China do what it wants? What they are doing in the South China Sea with the Spratleys and other islands. To just move in and build bases illegally and basically say to the world "well what are you gunna do about it?" - and they get away with it.”

The Chinese have no less a claim to the Spratleys which are 500 miles away from China than the English do over the Falklands which are 8000 miles from England or the Americans over Guam which are 5000 miles from America.

America officially has over 800 bases worldwide in over 80 countries and as was recently discovered by accident it has troops conducting military operations in 20 countries in Africa alone along with the more high profile wars being fought in the Middle East and soon to be South America.

The US has been involved in military operations in over 50 countries since WW2 and since the country was founded in 1776 has been at war every single year except 7.

Can we say China comes even close to this with its SEVERAL foreign military bases.

.



Not a fan of simple contrarian arguments.

After WW2 the peace had to be won by rebuilding Europe and Asia and countering communism. Most of the heavy lifting was done by the US and a key to Bretton Woods and the Marshall Plan was the US military permitting thriving trade to see the rebuilding of Germany and Japan for example, in the face of hostile communism. Yes, the US had thousands of military bases abroad. Many have now closed.

Guam is American soil. And in strategic terms, keeping the sea lanes to Korea and Japan open since the end of WW2 allowing those countries to thrive. The 9-dash line and Spratlys was claimed in 1947 by the communists who had been hiding in the hills from the Japanese occupiers during WW2. Chinese ambitions in the South China Sea are unreasonable and conflict with many nations. American military bases in the Pacific permit treaty obligations of a de-militarised Japan for example. They've permitting thriving trade imperative to Australia and there's even the irony that oil shipment stability provided by the US Navy has permitted the rise of industrial China.

Then Cold War was horrific in many parts and as was the conduct of the US and its allies. Ostensibly, the moral compass was lost in some Cold War conflicts, though I'm not sure dozens of North Korean states would be so great today in an alternative.

COVID 19 has been an insight into how future conflict with China may play out if Australia caught up. It's not pretty. Government planners have had an insight into modern day Blitzkreig with critical national supply threatened and the power of cyber warfare ( both security and influencers ) with actions that would render our military ineffective ( and the US military severely constrained ). With the internet and economic coercion, China can do what the Japanese navy could not do in 1941 ! Isolate key players from the US and divide up the Pacific. Wake up Australia!

However, racism against Chinese plays into the CCP hands with their army of internet influencers. Always needs to be quashed by us as a society.

[oicur12.again]

“Can you clarify how globalisation has been established through the 'barrel of a gun' ?”

The entire way of life in America can only exist as a result of the US selling its debt in the form of US Treasuries, debt that now stands at almost 25 trillion and growing more rapidly every year.

This creates an imperative whereby large scale trades, particularly oil, must be conducted in US dollars, a status quo that has existed since the gold window closed in 1971 thereby turning the US dollar into a de facto oil backed currency.

This recycling of petrodollars provides oil producing countries such as Saudi Arabia with weapons, expertise and training on the clear understanding that all oil will enter the market priced in US dollars. The proceeds of these sales will be returned to the US in the purchase of US treasuries thus enabling US debt to grow without inflation affecting domestic consumers with the bulk of inflation being exported to countries with fixed exchange rates.

Hence the term coined by then Treasury Secretary John Connally in 1971 “The dollar is our currency, but it’s your problem”.

Its a false economy whereby American citizens are easily swayed into thinking the spoils of western capitalism are the result of a clever, innovative hard working society when it is in fact far from it.

Any country attempting to solve this “problem” by dedollarization will be met with force or as history has shown, all fiat hegemonic currencies are backed up by men with guns.

Iraq, Libya, Venezuela, Iran and possibly Saudi Arabia if they don’t continue to play the game have or will be subject to this show of force when having the arrogance to leave the reservation and become independent of the greenback.

Were global financial markets permitted to freely operate then US fiat would slowly return to the value of zero, which historically every fiat currency has done and the US consumer would see a considerable drop in lifestyle as a result.

Conflict in the Persian Gulf is largely about defending the dollar and is just one example of how the US and its allies employ force in order to coerce the global market into operating in a US friendly manner.

To quote Professor Michael Hudson, an authority on the history of debt:

“The solution [to the problem of maintaining the demand for dollars] turned out to be to replace gold with U.S. Treasury securities (IOUs) as the basis of foreign central bank reserves. After 1971, foreign central banks had little option for what to do with their continuing dollar inflows except to recycle them to the U.S. economy by buying U.S. Treasury securities. The effect of U.S. foreign military spending thus did not undercut the dollar’s exchange rate, and did not even force the Treasury and Federal Reserve to raise interest rates to attract foreign exchange to offset the dollar outflows on military account. In fact, U.S. foreign military spending helped finance the domestic U.S. federal budget deficit.”

Maybe next time we can talk about how the US uses its military to access natural resources, cheap labor and to create markets for US products. Think about South America.

“Is this the same as the racist policy that has locked out global business establishing companies without submitting to handing over intellectual property, or agreeing to joint ventures where the state takes effective control of any foreign investment?”.

You may notice at no stage have I suggested that China is not racist, merely that they are no more racist than we are.

“Should we discuss Uighurs and their non racist handling by China? I don't see many western governments adapting this policy.”

I suggest you take a look at the criticism leveled at the Australian Government handling of boat people recently and of the US Government handling of refugees at the border where asylum seekers, some young children, have literally died in cages.

[normanton]

Oh boy what a mess.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Iraq, Libya, Venezuela, Iran and possibly Saudi Arabia if they don’t continue to play the game have or will be subject to this show of force when having the arrogance to leave the reservation and become independent of the greenback.

’Becoming independent of the greenback’ is certainly a novel description of the 1979 Islamic Revolution and what ensued.

[West Coast]

Brushing aside the fact China is actually Australia's 9th biggest foreign investor, 35% of our trade is with China. Enough rubbish directed at them and they may actually take you up on that offer and cease their trade and sending of students to be educated in this country. And as a nation we'd be stuffed. Expect a large drop in wealth and living standards amongst all Australians.

In an Aviation context I'd gather a large proportion of flying training is conducted for Chinese students. Their aviation market is growing, and will continue to grow in the long term post Corona. A lot of Flying Instructors are employed to train those Chinese students. If they pull their students out then a lot of Instructors will be made redundant.

So I'll repeat my question from earlier in this thread:

Is anyone here prepared to look a young flying instructor in the eye and tell them they should lose their job because they personally don't want Chinese trainee pilots in the country?

Has Beijing offered you party membership yet?

[oicur12.again]

"’Becoming independent of the greenback’ is certainly a novel description of the 1979 Islamic Revolution and what ensued."

Iran didnt cease transactions in the greenback for several decades after the revolution.

[kingRB]

oicur try putting a [ quote] before the text you are quoting and a [/ quote] after it (without the spacing inside the brackets) - makes it a lot easier for us to read

[KABOY]

The entire way of life in America can only exist as a result of the US selling its debt in the form of US Treasuries, debt that now stands at almost 25 trillion and growing more rapidly every year.

This creates an imperative whereby large scale trades, particularly oil, must be conducted in US dollars, a status quo that has existed since the gold window closed in 1971 thereby turning the US dollar into a de facto oil backed currency.

You seem to have lost track of the last decade with emerging economies and trade.

You have gone completely off topic with your petrodollar rant. Let's talk about peak oil, renewable energy and the fact America has become a net exporter of oil thanks to shale. The Petrodollar is under attack, forget weaponising Saudi Arabia who has now sat down with the Russians to scale bag production and stop the next negative oil price, which looks like occurring again when the next WTI contracts fall due.

Anyway, let's look at the definition of globalisation.

the process by which businesses or other organizations develop international influence or start operating on an international scale.

So you do realise there are other economies, not just the USA who engage in global trade. The greatest influencer has now become China, exporting deflation for the past decade. There are no guns in globalisation, just economies like China who are modernising their military thanks to global trade and now making territorial claims way beyond their own borders and deemed unlawful by an international tribunal.

Have you taken into account the Vietnamese sailors that have drowned from Chinese coast guard vessels patrolling this disputed area under the jurisdiction of the CMC. But that's not a bodycount in your language right? Drowning when your vessel is rammed is death by natural causes.

[Subversive1]

Indeed, dr dre.

China could easily discard Australia. It may choose to do so. Do you have a ‘Plan B’ for that contingency?

All those instructors are digging career graves, if not for themselves for those aspiring to be instructors in the future. China will find a new location to train their pilots. It’s a place called “China”.

As I said before, all those Australian-trained Chinese pilots are taking the know-how back home. It’s like the Australian farmers who are exporting herd cattle to China. One day China will say thanks for the know how (and the cattle), we now have the critical mass to do this ourselves, and goodbye.

There are short-term gains from sucking up to China. A lot of keyboard heroes are not willing to admit the long-term consequences of doing so.

Some of us desire a thriving flying training industry that’s training Australians to meet the demands of what should be a thriving general aviation sector in Australia. Unfortunately for the long-term interests of Australia (and flying instructors), the place is run on the basis of the the laziest way to the quickest bucks (and cheapest flat-screen TVs).

Enjoying the read, strongly agree with you.

Good points from Muttley too. China is everybody's largest trading partner at the moment. You can see their impact in the Pacific and Africa particularly. This is unsustainable. IMHO, they have gone as far as they can go, as long as they remain a militarist, expansionist, communist state. Covid is causing much of the world to withdraw supply chains from China and the CCP face growing isolation as a result of the economic crisis that has resulted. China's relative importance will slip as more open, more ethically aligned and increasingly prosperous democracies such as India and Indonesia rise. The CCP hegemon gorilla is likely to face economic and military containment from alliances that have already been formed, led by the other big hegemon 800-pound gorilla.

[oicur12.again]

You have gone completely off topic with your petrodollar rant. Let's talk about peak oil, renewable energy and the fact America has become a net exporter of oil thanks to shale. The Petrodollar is under attack, forget weaponising Saudi Arabia who has now sat down with the Russians to scale bag production and stop the next negative oil price, which looks like occurring again when the next WTI contracts fall due.

The importance of the petrodollar should not be underestimated, it’s decreasing robustness is driving the gradual de dollarization of global trade which will in turn have a profound impact on the US economy and those of close US trading partners.

Peak oil will occur, that much is for sure however it will be at a point way past the use by date of the petrodollar and past the point of peak demand also.

While it is true that America has become a net exporter of oil, this does not have much relevance to the importance of the petrodollar system and it certainly has not freed the US from being completely reliant on imports.

The shale boom has seen US oil imports decrease less than 20% overall with fluctuations up and down over the past six years.

There is a vast difference in the usability and refinability of oil imported into the US and exported from the US.

More importantly, even with the bounce back in crude prices as a result of production cuts in KSR and Russia, the price will remain low enough to see most fracking in the US disappear.

Make no mistake, the US is completely import dependent.

So you do realize there are other economies, not just the USA who engage in global trade. The greatest influencer has now become China, exporting deflation for the past decade. There are no guns in globalisation, just economies like China who are modernising their military thanks to global trade and now making territorial claims way beyond their own borders and deemed unlawful by an international tribunal.

I am not suggesting that guns are employed by all participants in global trade at all times. However, history has shown that violence is a reasonably constant factor in the growth of empires, America included. Maybe do some reading about American corporate interests in South America, take a look at Guatemala or Chile for example and tell me wether you think there are no guns in globalization. Ask someone from Colombia or El Salvador or Honduras. Or oil producing countries in the Middle East. Do you still think the invasion of Iraq was about WMD?

Do you think the territorial claims China has over the Spratleys, largely uninhabited islands on their doorstop, come even close to the territorial expansion made by America? Or England? Past and present.

[West Coast]

Get it 012, “US bad. China, well, have you seen what the US did...”

[JustinHeywood]

Get it 012, “US bad. China, well, have you seen what the US did...”

Perfect summary of this thread.

[Gnadenburg]

Irrelevant since you busted the Chinese Communist Party sneaking agents into country Victoria to yell racist abuse at their own students and try to blame it on salt of the earth Mildurans. The biggest "false-flag" operation since the Tea Party. Good work, Gnads.

Their plan didn't work anyway as no one but you and Dre seem to give a rat's if anyone yells at Chinese on the radio.

Odd rants from you. At best that was a satirical comment in relation to someone who just kept asking for a "who dunnit" evidence of boganism.

Your last comment is deplorable. You seem to have a position as an apologist for racist heckling in this country. It's not a fair go, it's not even funny and thankfully, you even get kicked out the footy for such carry on these days.

As I said prior, Australia's future is based around trade and security alliances with countries that aren't always going to be white.


these "rednecks" might in fact be your winged brethren voicing their patriotic beliefs. Depending on how things turn out (unlikely) you might be eating your words in the future as a collaborator!

You see I was hoping this oddly satirical. Or just a One Nation rant. Otherwise I'm happy John Winston took away your guns.

[Gnadenburg]

I still can't buy all the simple anti-USA sentiment.

I'd invite some folks to go back to 1943. Start with the Ploesti raids. Then Potsdam. The rebuilding of Europe and Asia after WW2, oil demand and security in the face of the rise of communism. Then Arab nationalism. It's a complex mess. But run alternative histories. The US made plenty of errors and injustices. They were not the only guilty party. Their allies too and their enemies.

[dr dre]

I still can't buy all the simple anti-USA sentiment.

I'd invite some folks to go back to 1943.

The problem is some are stuck in 1943. It's just an acknowledgement about the games all superpowers play. (Btw I love pointing out how much of the victory of the allies in WW2 was achieved not mostly via Americans but via the far bigger sacrifices of the Soviet Union and China.)

Irrelevant since you busted the Chinese Communist Party sneaking agents into country Victoria to yell racist abuse at their own students and try to blame it on salt of the earth Mildurans. The biggest "false-flag" operation since the Tea Party. Good work, Gnads.

I love how racist conspiracy theorists always pull the "false flag" card when one of their own is caught being stupid.

As I said prior, Australia's future is based around trade and security alliances with countries that aren't always going to be white.


Of the top 15 export markets of Australia (I would classify aviation education as an export of Australia's education to the world) majority Asian nations comprise 88% of our export markets. So I would say our present economy is based around non-white trade markets, and the future for Australia's economy can only be more Asian. All demographic and economic trends point to this. Unless you're under the illusion Hanson is about to sweep in to power and reset the clock back to the 50's nothing can be done about it.

[Hoosten]

Oh, I don't know, call me naive but when it comes to being lied to from a politician I'd rather it be in a democracy where there's a fair to middling chance that the turds lieing will be discovered and them being held to account rather than in a totalitarian state where if they don't like you calling them out on their lieing you, a) get sent to a gulag for re-education, b) you disappear, are murdered and your organs harvested just in case old mate Xi needs them, c) end up in just a plain ole jail for months/years without charge or trial while they mess with your head.

I kinda like living in a society where the internet and media are not censored (apart from d!ckhead Zuckerburg's brand of censorship).

It helps to separate the good Chinese folk from the CCP. I had a 27 year old student that knew nothing about Tiananmen Square until he arrived in Australia. He also happened to be one of the funniest and personable blokes I've met, wanted the same things out of life for himself and his family. Will be a lifelong friend.

Perhaps if the rest the rest of the world didn't demand the US be the World Police (f@ck yeah) and stopped whinging when they did & didn't intervene we'd be all sweet? Yeah/Nah, evil has a nasty habit of gaining the upper hand when neutrals stand around and watch.

[oicur12.again]

Got it 012, “US bad. China, well, have you seen what the US did…”

The US is behaving exactly like most empires before them, its nothing new. From the early pioneers at the start to conspicuous consumption at the end and all the trappings in between including an over extended military with a debilitating defense budget to an ever growing gap between rich and poor to the de basing of its currency.

The US is little different to the Roman empire and it doesn't make them “bad”, just predictable.

still can't buy all the simple anti-USA sentiment.

I'd invite some folks to go back to 1943.

The economic imperatives in 1943 bear no resemblance to the factors the US is dealing with today, mostly as a result of the closing of the gold window in 1971. America moved from from an industrial economy to a financialised economy, a sweet ride for many but only made possible by the widespread but short lived deployment of worthless fiat currency and global hegemony.

Oh, I don't know, call me naive but when it comes to being lied to from a politician I'd rather it be in a democracy

I agree, which is why I dont live in China.

where there's a fair to middling chance that the turds lieing will be discovered and them being held to account rather than in a totalitarian state

I also agree, although it would be nice if the “turds” were “discovered” and “held to account” BEFORE lying their way into wars that destroy nations and kill hundreds and thousands of innocent people instead of AFTER, as is most usually the case.

[Muttley Crew]

Oh, I don't know, call me naive but when it comes to being lied to from a politician I'd rather it be in a democracy where there's a fair to middling chance that the turds lieing will be discovered and them being held to account rather than in a totalitarian state where if they don't like you calling them out on their lieing you, a) get sent to a gulag for re-education, b) you disappear, are murdered and your organs harvested just in case old mate Xi needs them, c) end up in just a plain ole jail for months/years without charge or trial while they mess with your head.

I kinda like living in a society where the internet and media are not censored (apart from d!ckhead Zuckerburg's brand of censorship).

It helps to separate the good Chinese folk from the CCP. I had a 27 year old student that knew nothing about Tiananmen Square until he arrived in Australia. He also happened to be one of the funniest and personable blokes I've met, wanted the same things out of life for himself and his family. Will be a lifelong friend.

Perhaps if the rest the rest of the world didn't demand the US be the World Police (f@ck yeah) and stopped whinging when they did & didn't intervene we'd be all sweet? Yeah/Nah, evil has a nasty habit of gaining the upper hand when neutrals stand around and watch.
I could probably get drunk with you but you read like a bit of a bogan and Gnads would look down his nose at you and sniff with disdain.

I love how racist conspiracy theorists always pull the "false flag" card when one of their own is caught being stupid.
That was Gnads on about the false flag. Careful throwing around words like "stupid" as they have a way of biting you on your own arse, as you've just demonstrated. I love how the phony-informed on here catch themselves out in their attempts to appear as intelligentsia.


Hey, Juud… any word on the status of our "fair-go reputation" after all the hoo-hah in Mildura?

[Hoosten]

I also agree, although it would be nice if the “turds” were “discovered” and “held to account” BEFORE lying their way into wars that destroy nations and kill hundreds and thousands of innocent people instead of AFTER, as is most usually the case.

Good point that.

[Hoosten]

I could probably get drunk with you but you read like a bit of a bogan and Gnads would look down his nose at you and sniff with disdain.

Haha (laugh icon). I dunno what Gnads is on about most of the time. Total bogan by the way (thumbs up icon)