Kingsford Smith Airport Curfew

[Fluke]

Why not stand it down, at least temporarily as a show of support for the airlines and airport ? With world air travel currently on its knees it would send a much needed message of support. I know the politics are messy but the NSW public have shown incredible tolerance battling the covid-19 virus. This change could be justified as getting our aviation and tourism industries back up and running.

[Paragraph377]

Why not stand it down, at least temporarily as a show of support for the airlines and airport ? With world air travel currently on its knees it would send a much needed message of support. I know the politics are messy but the NSW public have shown incredible tolerance battling the covid-19 virus. This change could be justified as getting our aviation and tourism industries back up and running.
Many of us have been asking that for years, please remove the curfew! The curfew itself costs the Australian economy billions of dollars in lost revenue per year. And why? Because a bunch of super rich prats don’t want their sleep disturbed, plus they have the money and political connections to ensure the curfew remains. And the politicians are too scared to act becuase they will lose votes, elections and their ringside seats at the taxpayer trough. For all intents and purposes Sydney is our (unofficial) Capital. It’s the go to place for business, tourism and anything else you can think of. Whether we like it or not, it is what it is. The contraints are ludicrous and outdated. It’s 2020 FFS, time to modernise our Country.

[halas]

Better talk to the leader of the federal opposition, AnAl.

YSSY and it's amazing technicolour regulations are his baby.

hala

[Toruk Macto]

Where do I sign ?

[Ragnor]

This is madness, I love the curfew I don't sign on before 05:00 and I know I will finish before midnight. unlike my counter parts in ML who sign off at 01:00 and sign back on at midday for another flogging. Unless stickily international carriers only then yeah maybe and it would free up more domestic slots during the day.

[Ascend Charlie]

The Labor electorates are the ones under the flight path, and their voting power will stop any attempt to change the state law - and it is a law, nothing to do with CA$A or ASA.

[Maggie Island]

Not entirely sure what the go is at the moment, but pre-rona it appeared that just about everyone applying for ad-hoc dispensations late at night were having em granted.

Hopefully this indicates state govt are amenable on the issue!

[das Uber Soldat]

Yeah yeah nah. Keep the curfew thanks. As much as I'd just love JQ to roster us to finish duties at 3am like the ML boys get, ill pass.

[Like This - Do That]

At the last census there were over 180000 people in the Inner West LGA. And another 150000 in Bayside. Those are LGAs in Sydney directly affected by aircraft noise. Throw in Canada Bay, Hunters Hill, Burwood, Lane Cove ..... give it up, gents, the horse has bolted on this one. Too many people affected if the curfew were to be lifted.

[edited to add] And before anyone asks I don't live in any of those LGAs and wouldn't be affected ....

[patty50]

Anti curfew idiots bang on constantly about the economic benefits of a few hundred people flying somewhere in the middle of the night. It’s minuscule.

Remember Qatar said they wouldn’t fly here until it was gone and now they’re the biggest international carrier in Sydney!

MILLIONS of people are impacted by aircraft noise in Sydney, we don’t give a f*ck about giving the ME3, Singapore and Cathay more convenient landing times on overnight flights.

[BNEA320]

the fines should go. No airline currently want to land in SYD after 2100 in case they get stuck there (with exception of QF, VA etc. who can switch aircraft for, say a flight SYD/MEL at 2200).

If a flight from anywhere which was scheduled to land at SYD at 2200, but was delayed & hit headwinds & arrives SYD at 2315, it should not have to pay massive fines.

If I was on that aircraft & thought the aircraft might be turning around, I'd literally have a heart attack & aircraft would have to land ASAP.

It all comes down to aircraft utilisation. If airline can use an aircraft more hours a day, their unit costs drop. No one yet knows what will become of the old VA, but if less aircraft flying, then airlines need a leg up & be able to schedule flights in & out of SYD closer to 2300.

Lastly, how many new aircraft are quiet, very quiet ?

[neville_nobody]

An interesting little exercise will be to look at the nights where there was chaos at SYD and they have 10+ departures post curfew to see how many noise complaints were generated. Personally I think there should be a curfew but they need to reign in the current system. This business of flying for 15 hours and then diverting interstate to sit around for 8 hours to then fly back to Sydney needs to stop.

If they can actually build the new West Sydney Airport it will probably be the best solution for all. At least carriers can divert to an airport in the same city.

[ShandywithSugar]

Drive to Blue Emu through 5-6pm traffic to sign on for the 2005AEDT SYD PER to return landing at 0605AEDT SYD and driving home through - you guess it.

[machtuk]

An interesting little exercise will be to look at the nights where there was chaos at SYD and they have 10+ departures post curfew to see how many noise complaints were generated. Personally I think there should be a curfew but they need to reign in the current system. This business of flying for 15 hours and then diverting interstate to sit around for 8 hours to then fly back to Sydney needs to stop.

If they can actually build the new West Sydney Airport it will probably be the best solution for all. At least carriers can divert to an airport in the same city.

What's the bet that the new Syd drome will also have restrictions placed on it? We are too weak a nation to make sensible decisions for the whole community not just the influential in corrupt Govt circles!

[The Shovel]

Wrong, there would be no huge demamd for International flights wanting to land after 11pm or take off before 6am. They would be happy with some flexibility under the current rules.
Most of Europe have curfew restrictions, and whilst SYD is no LHR, it is still just as reasonable for a curfew to be in place.
Domestically, there would be a bigger desire for flights within the curfew period. But not to the point that the ecoomy is loosing Billions as a result of it.
(if your arguement had any weight, then ALL your other arguments about the airport price gouging {which are 100% correct} fall over. )

That being said, the issue is not the curfew, it is the-:
Noise sharing Runway direction requirement,
The Use it or Loose it requirement of the hourly movement cap,
The Inflexibility of the curfew period.

The runway direction should be most appropriate based on environmental conditions.

If the airport movements are restricted for some reason due, then the airport should be able to catch up those lost movements over the subsequent hours. Personally there should be no Cap at all, and the Cap is where the airport is losing money.

There should be a flexible 1hr period either side of the curfew to ensure unforseen circumstances do not unduly ground a flight overnight costing an airline $100,000's. There could be very clear guidelines about how that flexibility can be applied.
ie: aircraft goes Tech during a turnaround, it can be fixed and still depart.
ie: An aircraft scheduled to land at 6am is running early due to winds, shouldn't have to hold and waste fuel (burn those aweful CO2 emissions) because the environment allowed the aircraft to fly faster.
ie: weather in MEL /BNE restricts movements due to their runway configuration. If a "scheduled" flight is late through no fault of its own, it can continue to SYD. Instead of sending the aircraft around on late final cause it wont touch down untill 23:00:05 local time.

When has common sense and logic ever prevailed in life.

[Ascend Charlie]

but pre-rona it appeared that just about everyone applying for ad-hoc dispensations late at night were having em granted.

Well, they wouldn't give me one.

I was waiting at KSA for Tom Cruise to arrive in his Gulfstream from NZ, to carry him to the Boss's farm in the boonies. Tom was due at 2130, and Boss was getting impatient - he didn't like waiting for anybody. Customs and Immigration were waiting around too. Late departure, headwinds, it looked like I might not get out before 2300. I rang the dispensation people and asked for permission to leave after 2300.
"What's the reason?" she asked.
"Plane delayed, headwinds, not his fault."
"Sorry, no dispensation."
"But it's Tom Cruise!"
"Doesn't matter" she said, "Unless it's a medical emergency, you will stay on the ground."
"It WILL be a medical emergency!" I replied, "If we don't take off, my Boss will tear my @rse out!"
"OK, wait till he does that, then call me, but otherwise, you stay on the ground."

Luckily the plane arrived, Customs and Immigration did their thing in a blur, and we taxied at 2255.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Why not stand it down, at least temporarily as a show of support for the airlines and airport ?
How many flights are wanting to come in during the curfew at the moment? Temporarily lifting the curfew when no one wants to come is not sending a message to anyone. Are SYD knocking back international requests because they are outside hours? There's no overseas tourism, curfew or no curfew. Aussies can't leave, arrivals get locked up for 14 days.