Netjets Europe fires 25% of pilots

[no nonsense]

Netjets Europe seems to be in big trouble loosing the Berkshire Hathaway fundings and therefore disposing their Falcon fleet and firing 25% of their pilots.

Good time for the owners to join other EU operators; seems they are more sensible and robust.

[Delta12]

Netjets Europe seems to be in big trouble loosing the Berkshire Hathaway fundings and therefore disposing their Falcon fleet and firing 25% of their pilots.

Good time for the owners to join other EU operators; seems they are more sensible and robust.

Oh really ?
Like VJ who entered this crisis already loaded with huge amounts of debt ?
Look left and right and get rid of your pink sunglasses mate ;)

[EatMyShorts!]

- 15 Falcon 2000EX EASy
- 3 Citation XLS
- 120 pilots
- 50 cabin crew

Further details to follow, depending on what can be shared and what not, at this point in time.

[TheHack]

Wow! Didn't expect that one!
As no other "big player" in the Biz Jet sector is making redundancies for now, either Netjets knows more or its just worthless to be part of the Berkshire Heathaway group...:ooh:

[Aso]

Good time for the owners to join other EU operators; seems they are more sensible and robust.

If there is one company that will remain and is sensible and robust it is NetJets... The fact that they have redundancies make me worry more about the others out there...

[Right Hand Thread]

what is the source of this information?

I've been approached by several Falcon pilots seeking work and confirming they've been laid off.

[Delta12]

If there is one company that will remain and is sensible and robust it is NetJets... The fact that they have redundancies make me worry more about the others out there...

Spot on ! You nailed it

[eiffel]

What is the source?... It seems nothing has been officially published ….
How many guys exactly?

[EatMyShorts!]

Read my previous post.

[Opsbeatch]

Wow! Didn't expect that one!
As no other "big player" in the Biz Jet sector is making redundancies for now, either Netjets knows more or its just worthless to be part of the Berkshire Heathaway group...:ooh:

None that you know of...

OB

[EatMyShorts!]

And, no, I do not think that Netjets will go under. They are just trying to cut their fixed cost, albeit not the way it should be done (firing people according to their fleets and not according seniority).

[TheHack]

None that you know of...

OB
oh sorry. Yes you'r right, not that i know of.
I got friends flying for varios operators (Vistajet, Air Hamburg, IJM....) most of them are in short-time work, yet still employed... as far as i know!
I was just wondering why Netjets (claiming to be "the biggest and best one") are one of the first to reduce their workforce by 25% while others uses short-time work to reduce their cost and still be set up if the business picks up again.
I wonder if Netjets is just playing it safe if the business doesn't pick up or if they know more? I think we will just see it in future who had been the smart one...

[EatMyShorts!]

It's always about who's the boss and what his vision or the lack of vision is. Firing people is one thing, but firing people outside the order of seniority is another. A lot of very senior people are being let go and are deeply shocked. I guess it's all about getting back up on their feet and get going. There will be jobs at some point, but they probably won't be as comfortable as in Netjets.

[3wheels]

It's always about who's the boss and what his vision or the lack of vision is. Firing people is one thing, but firing people outside the order of seniority is another. .

Nothing unusual about that.
The boss will get rid of people he doesn’t get on with first, followed by those on the highest salary, whilst still able to meet commitments.
The days of “first in last out” don’t exist any more and haven’t done so for a long time.

[TheHack]

Nothing unusual about that.
The boss will get rid of people he doesn’t get on with first, followed by those on the highest salary, whilst still able to meet commitments.
The days of “first in last out” don’t exist any more and haven’t done so for a long time.

Depends if there is any policy like "first in last out" is in place. I think you'll need a good reason to divert from policies. Obviously it's the disposal of the Falcon fleet... or is it just because the demography is quite high in this company, as far as i know... i hope i do not trigger anyone, to make you sure, im not defending this whole situation nor think that this is fair at all.

Nevertheless, there must be really something bad going on if you are one of the first "big one" who fires people with this well advertised Berkshire Heathaway background.
I can imaging that there's even a damage to the brand itself in the eyes of the current and future aircraft share holders. Like, "NetJets looses trust and founding of Berkshire Heathaway"(which is greatly advertised, at least to my knowledge) so why would i buy a aircraft share at a company at high risk?
Same goes for crew. Yes, obviously they offer a really nice package but in the first sight of a crisis you have a great chance of beeing fired, regardless of seniority number... and you can't count on the huge background as well...
So, i think there is anything big going on if they risk all of that. (Please correct me if im wrong with my thoughts).

[3RDi]

Business aviation executives webinar

https://privatejetcardcomparisons.com/2020/04/15/private-jet-charter-and-jet-cards-to-see-big-boost-post-covid-19/amp/

[TheHack]

Business aviation executives webinar


Thank you for your link. That makes sense as well.
So why the hell is Netjets laying off 25% of their crew?? I just get more and more confused...

[EatMyShorts!]

Nobody understands it. NOW is the time to look for good deals for new aircraft, they should be getting cheaper and cheaper. Use the crisis to get read for the end of the crisis and then emerge stronger.

[3RDi]

Nobody understands it. NOW is the time to look for good deals for new aircraft, they should be getting cheaper and cheaper. Use the crisis to get read for the end of the crisis and then emerge stronger.

Please share these good deals. Give a rundown or List price vs Market averages instead of being ambiguous and vague. Lots of “wishy-washy” unsubstantiated comments. Have you had any discussions with aircraft owners and clients?

[EatMyShorts!]

I am just a stupid pilot, we pay our managers a lot of money to do this kind of stuff, to have a vision, a strategy. Not to just panic and cut costs the easiest way, while there are better ways to achieve almost the same.

And of course, RIGHT NOW there are not so many good deals yet, but sooner or later manufacturers will be more willing to offer good deals that would make a good investment into the future. It's like with regular shares, buy low, sell high, don't stay behind the power curve.

[JHansell]

Of course there are good deals to be had right now, the price of business jets is rock bottom like any other asset. For the same reason a terrible time to sell Falcons.

From asianaviation.com - covid-19-business-aviation-tries-to-weather-the-storm

"As for deliveries, Dolski says some OEMs are halting production or slowing down completions and that could have an impact on deliveries. But, he added, “with the limited and constantly changing number of places to fly, a number of new owners are not concerned with delaying acceptance of their aircraft and in fact would prefer delaying the outflow of funds toward an asset that they cannot utilise for the intended purpose. Preowned aircraft prices are dropping so it is a good time to buy. This being said, non-distressed sellers are pulling their aircraft off market until the market bottoms out. Some high-net-worth individuals whose personal finances have been negatively impacted by the COVID impact will try and see if they can exercise an out clause in their aircraft purchase agreement after a force majeure period has passed in order not to take delivery of their aircraft.”

[TheHack]

I am just a stupid pilot, we pay our managers a lot of money to do this kind of stuff, to have a vision, a strategy. Not to just panic and cut costs the easiest way, while there are better ways to achieve almost the same.

And of course, RIGHT NOW there are not so many good deals yet, but sooner or later manufacturers will be more willing to offer good deals that would make a good investment into the future. It's like with regular shares, buy low, sell high, don't stay behind the power curve.

And exactly thats the question. We know from every crisis before that it CAN be a chance as well!
The thing is, NetJets either doesn't see chances in future or it is just panicking...
The fact that Berkshire Heathaway does not fund NetJets anymore is a bit worrying because if they want they can easily effort it. Berkshire Heathaway got a CASH! ammount of 128 BILLION dollar. So either both are not expecting any chances here. For whatever reason. Or it is as eatmyshorts said, NetJets is just panicking because they lost their funding.

[Oh gaim]

And exactly thats the question. We know from every crisis before that it CAN be a chance as well!
The thing is, NetJets either doesn't see chances in future or it is just panicking...
The fact that Berkshire Heathaway does not fund NetJets anymore is a bit worrying because if they want they can easily effort it. Berkshire Heathaway got a CASH! ammount of 128 BILLION dollar. So either both are not expecting any chances here. For whatever reason. Or it is as eatmyshorts said, NetJets is just panicking because they lost their funding.

Apart from their Insurance businesses, all BH companies have been told to expect no cash injections.

[JHansell]

Appalling behaviour by NetJets Europe management. There were at least 3 alternatives to redundancies - ask Berkshire Hathaway for money, borrow money (their debt used to be USD 1.9bn at its peak, now it is zero) and seek state aid like everyone else. They refused to do any. Then they reneged on a deal with the union and offered a disgustingly low redundancy package - based on UK statutory minimum, which is nothing, Surely time to escalate this to Berkshire Hathaway or the press ?

[TheHack]

Appalling behaviour by NetJets Europe management. There were at least 3 alternatives to redundancies - ask Berkshire Hathaway for money, borrow money (their debt used to be USD 1.9bn at its peak, now it is zero) and seek state aid like everyone else. They refused to do any. Then they reneged on a deal with the union and offered a disgustingly low redundancy package - based on UK statutory minimum, which is nothing, Surely time to escalate this to Berkshire Hathaway or the press ?

Sure, off to the press with this! Disgusting behavor of the "Worlds biggest and best" Bizjet operator then... pretty sure its worth a story!

[EatMyShorts!]

The only issue with this would be that this would scare current and potential customers away from the company = lower or no chances to be re-hired after the storm. As angry as many are, we should keep cool.

[JHansell]

The only issue with this would be that this would scare current and potential customers away from the company = lower or no chances to be re-hired after the storm. As angry as many are, we should keep cool.

And let them get away with it again and again ??? Is it worth to be rehired by such an unethical company ? Anyway a complaint to Berkshire Hathaway would not be seen by customers. By the way I believe they already wrote to customers telling them about the redundancies anyway.

[TheHack]

The only issue with this would be that this would scare current and potential customers away from the company = lower or no chances to be re-hired after the storm. As angry as many are, we should keep cool.

I know... i wouldn't do it either...
But things like this will sooner or later be picked up by the media anyways. It's NetJets, huge and market leader and every compeditor is interested what they are doing.

[Delta12]

Do you guys really think that NetJets Owners do give a damn ?
These guys mostly run businesses as well & find themselves in similar situations now.
Fair, unfair, unfortunate ! That does not matter in the end !
its a business and not charity.

If Buffett keeps its pockets closed, the reason probably is that he soon wants to shop around a little as opportunities arise left and right.
NJ is, as it always was, backed by Berkshire Hathaway.

For NJ customers it is and always was a safe bet, NJ will never let their customers down ever !!!

[deing]

If all the Falcons are going, how do they deal with the owners who bought shares in a Falcon 2000?
A Challenger 350 is not quite the same while a Global is much bigger

[EatMyShorts!]

Upgrades to Global at the price of the Falcon. Good move, real cost-savings :)

[Delta12]

Apparently they did not sell Falcon shares for quite a while already (according to their website).

so customer base on this AC type rather low.

Falcon is extremely expensive, age & maintenance

[LGW Vulture]

I'm afraid that some of the quotes on here prove beyond doubt that some Posters know Jack about this business.Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt.......edited for Grammar Fascists.

[TheHack]

I'm afraid that some of the quotes on here prove beyond doubt that some Posters know Jack about this business.Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt.......edited for Grammar Fascists.

So, share your knowledge with others. Maybe others have different experience in the business than you got.
Just quoting something that states "you guys have no clue" doesn't help...
I know thats how forums work sometimes but just stating "you are fools" without any fact to supports your statement is just trolling around.

[His dudeness]

......edited for Grammar Fascists.

What about the capital letters here ? Is that correct spelling ?

[JHansell]

Do you guys really think that NetJets Owners do give a damn ?
These guys mostly run businesses as well & find themselves in similar situations now.
Fair, unfair, unfortunate ! That does not matter in the end !
its a business and not charity.

If Buffett keeps its pockets closed, the reason probably is that he soon wants to shop around a little as opportunities arise left and right.
NJ is, as it always was, backed by Berkshire Hathaway.

For NJ customers it is and always was a safe bet, NJ will never let their customers down ever !!!

I don't think Owners like the constant instability. What does that do to customer service ? I believe many Owners have complained over the years to senior management about this. Also Buffett had to intervene in 2015 due to the potential (and actual) reputational impact with Owners.

[JHansell]

Apart from their Insurance businesses, all BH companies have been told to expect no cash injections.

Yeah that's what management says.... how convenient.

[no nonsense]

They treated the employees exceptionally unfair the way they did in recent years with lay offs for no obvious reasons and completely ignoring any agreements made with a totally useless union.
The way you treat your employees is also the way they treat the owners. It’s the companies mentality.

[FZRA]

What's the point in a seniority system, whereby for example a Challenger rated Captain must join as a Citation/Phenom FO, when during a crisis they sack one fleet regardless of seniority?

[Klimax]

I feel sorry for the NJE crew (and others) falling victim to the apparently proposed layoffs. Hopefully there will be jobs to be had at some point not too far away and hopefully some clients will come out stronger than before and elect to have their own jet with a decent management company and not sharing it with other people. It's not bad having to deal with only one client and not different ones all the time. Best of luck to you all.

[happyjack]

If you know anything about NetJets Europe management you must surely know that they are a bunch of greedy tw@ts getting rich at the expense of everyone else? Including the owners.There is a very long history of throwing any previous employment agreements straight in the bin whenever it suits them. Their employment model makes it very difficult indeed for anyone to challenge this. (Chance or by design?) Well I know.

How many of previous laid off pilots ever got re-employed? I would hazard a guess at none?

As a previous line pilot they are not at all interested in your circumstances. They will willingly throw you under a bus if it suits them so make no mistake....

I have witnessed their DOFO state to a Judge in Court that they are invincible, can do whatever they like, and there is no Juristiction on Earth that can touch them!

Well that didn't work out too well in the long run for them!

You have employment rights. I know. I put them there with this vile company. Portuguese Law will prevail. But only if you chase it.

[JTF]

I have heard rumors that somehow the cuts were not out of seniority order and that a couple of the union leaders knowingly voted for a package that included themselves in the furloughs/ redundancies/ whatever they are calling the job cuts. I asked about this on another board and the only person who had any idea said he or she wasn't allowed to say- weird for an anonymous message board, especially with so many cuts that it would be pretty hard to be know who spoke.

[Red Goose]

JTF, your information is correct.

[733driver]

I have heard rumors that somehow the cuts were not out of seniority.....

The bold bit confuses me. What do you mean by "not out of seniority"? Not according to seniority or according to seniority? I'm not sure the person who responded to you necessarily understood your question correctly either.

[binzer]

Outside of chopping the whole fleet (Falcon) it was seniority (lifo) by fleet requirement.

[CREAMER]

Everyone talks about the 'Berkshire Hathaway Money' as though it was some sort of security blanket. I suppose not. After advertising themselves as Alpha they have come up Beta, ready to be kicked around. The money is either not there or someone in the USA panicked. Does brand mean anything these days? If so Berkshire's will be in the gutter unless someone does something fast.

[no nonsense]

Imagine if BA would get rit off the A380's and fire all the 380 pilots irrespective of their seniority. That would be interesting....
Well at Netjets Europe this is possible.
Eventhough there is the CLA

[Oh gaim]

Imagine if BA would get rit off the A380's and fire all the 380 pilots irrespective of their seniority. That would be interesting....
Well at Netjets Europe this is possible.
Eventhough there is the CLA
BA may well do exactly that.

[EatMyShorts!]

BA are trying it, didn't you read about it on the respective thread? UK law sucks and basically allows it, if deviation from LIFO results in less lost jobs than sticking to a contractual seniority based redundancy policy.

[no nonsense]

That's exactly my point. They try but will never succeed....

[JHansell]

BA are trying it, didn't you read about it on the respective thread? UK law sucks and basically allows it, if deviation from LIFO results in less lost jobs than sticking to a contractual seniority based redundancy policy.

Yes UK law sucks. So why don't you go to the French courts ? They have accepted claims from French ex-NJE pilots in the past.

[no nonsense]

So it looks that all crew members are shafted by by both the company (Netjets) and Skyshare union (again).

Shame on you Netjets.

Shame on you worthless union.

[Delta12]

One needs to understand what power the union actually has.
They need to be consulted, and then the company can still go whatever route they want to go.
The union is not to blame here, not at all.

[what next]

The union is not to blame here, not at all.

If they are so powerless they shouldn't take their members money in the first place. Or at least tell them upon joining that the membership is useless.

[Delta12]

Sorry, but absolute bollox.
They achieved a lot in many other regards. Even during these unfortunate redundancies it was good to have the union in place.
The cost per year for the membership you can completely disregard, it is insignificant.
You simply can not judge it as an 'outsider'

[what next]

Hello!

They achieved a lot in many other regards.

Maybe. But not this time. We were only about a month into this crisis when NJ already dumped one quarter od their staff. This is not how THE showcse company in our industry should behave. There are plenty of other ways to survive such a crisis economically. Lots of smaller and less financially stable companies have not laid off a single pilot yet. A union which stands in silence and lets this happen is, I repeat myself, totally useless. You must not be an company insider to understand that. The union must be there for you when it matters most. And this is when your job itself is in danger.

Regards and goof luck
Max

[Delta12]

Max,
I appreciate your Frustration.
But there is no logic to blame the Union, for something they absolutely do not have any power in.
Blame the management team but not the Union.

[733driver]

Hello!



Maybe. But not this time. We were only about a month into this crisis when NJ already dumped one quarter od their staff. This is not how THE showcse company in our industry should behave. There are plenty of other ways to survive such a crisis economically. Lots of smaller and less financially stable companies have not laid off a single pilot yet. A union which stands in silence and lets this happen is, I repeat myself, totally useless. You must not be an company insider to understand that. The union must be there for you when it matters most. And this is when your job itself is in danger.

Regards and goof luck
Max

Max, I often find myself agreeing wth you posts but not this time. Not at all. In the UK unions have very limited power. That's true for BALPA at BA, easyJet etc as well as for the union at NJE. Unions do not decide how many get fired. In the Uk they don't even help decide who is selected and why. They are only consulted. It's not a negotiation. If there is a redundancy policy in place it would normally(!) be expected to be followed but in these exceptional circumstances companies can probably get away with a lot, even in court. Unions in the UK can and do negotiate over pay, hours and holidays and they can go on strike for any of these as long as a majority of the membership has voted in favor in a postal ballot. So within that framework, and even beyond it, the union has been a great success and has earned the members (and non-members) their minimal union dues a hundred times over and more. But in this situation they are relatively powerless, unfortunately. That is not to say that not having a union would be better. The opposite is true. It's very important that there is a recognized union and a CBA especially because there are managers such as the one currently in charge at NJE.

[Delta12]

Well said 733driver.
I am completely fed up with the UK. I would love to see our company to move the contract out of this country.
Labour law is a joke really. Statutory pay laughable. The list goes on and on unfortunately.

[EatMyShorts!]

1 year too late for this. And no more curry in the near future for me, as it would create negative vibrations. The entire situation is shameful for Netjets and completely unnecessary, one or two top managers are completely destroying the morale, the heart and the soul of this company. They did not even try to mitigate the joblosses, it's a disgrace and unforgivable, owners are now aware of it.

[Delta12]

Well,
Owners will not care too much I am afraid. They read newspapers as well, job cuts where ever you look at.

[no nonsense]

Well owners do care. They spent a lot of money buying shares in an unstable company. Will it still exist next year ? What will happen to my shares ?

There are a lot of unknown factors in the (near) future but one seems to be pretty clear..business aviation demand will increase big time.

And that's the weird thing. Why would a company get rid of an entire fleet in a market that is predicted by everyone in this sector to surge....

I don't see any logic in this strategy and for sure I don't sympathize.

[Delta12]

Complete Bollox,
I would trust my money for sure NetJets more than Vista and the likes.

I hope, for all of us, that as you say demand rises back quickly.

[Down in front]

Complete Bollox,
I would trust my money for sure NetJets more than Vista and the likes.

I hope, for all of us, that as you say demand rises back quickly.

Hopefully - though it makes for very poor PR in the sense of the financial strength of a company if one has made 25% of staff redundancy (with no attempt to access the state money available throughout Europe to avoid exactly that outcome) and the other made no cuts whatsoever.

Not that I believe it was done for financial strength reasons, more of a BA-style opportunism to adjust the terms by a president who has said outright that he objected to the CBA before Covid came along

[Delta12]

On top of that, yes it seems NJ is the only one of the few big players that laid off staff.
But (unfortunately) I am not convinced it stays like that. Every Pilot without a job is bad news for all of us.
I wish the market rebounds quickly, as that would mean as well that all that were made redundant could be rehired in position and seniority.
If they wish obviously.

[EatMyShorts!]

Most crew laid off now will not be eligible for re-hire in old rank, salary and (partial) seniority, because they are being blackmailed into signing a letter to not take any legal against the company. No signature, no re-hiring. And most people doubt that there will be re-hiring within the given time-frame. It's a nasty situation, driven by ego and numbers, not by ethics and morale.

[Delta12]

I would sign. There is no case in this one that would stand a chance in court.
Even though I appreciate that feelings boil high and the situation being affected feels completely wrong and unfair.
I just think there is nothing to win in court that’s worth giving away the rehire option.
But hey, I am not a lawyer so....

[no nonsense]

Interesting to hear that a member of the executive board of the Union just got re-hired....MJ...so unfortunate he can not reply as a kicked out pprune member....

Unbelievable what game they played in this Skyshare union. I am sure they will meet a lot of friends in the FBO's in the future.

[Delta12]

Interesting to hear that a member of the executive board of the Union just got re-hired....MJ...so unfortunate he can not reply as a kicked out pprune member....

Unbelievable what game they played in this Skyshare union. I am sure they will meet a lot of friends in the FBO's in the future.

I know MJ as I flew with him on the line. He is for sure a character, but sure as hell not a bad person !!!

The rehire policy is clear, no idea why you want to twist & turn it to shed some bad light on the union.

But hey, keep going, just grabbing a beer and some popcorn...

[EatMyShorts!]

A small number of pilots took voluntary redundancy and this saved an equal number of pilots from the Falcon fleet, according to seniority. He was lucky along with a few others.

And re court cases: it'll be worth the fight for a decent lump sum and not the joke that they are paying us now for being fired outside the line of seniority. If people saw a realistic chance to come back, they would have signed. But obviously people do not trust management anymore and in the past most court cases against Netjets resulted in favour of the ex-employees.

[His dudeness]

From the outside it looks a lot different from the last time, where - whilst disliking the company Netjets for trying to take my job away - I thought they were fair in relations to the work force.

As for the courts: there is saying in German, going roughly along the line of:

"on the high seas and in front of a court you are in gods hands".

Good luck in outlawyering a company of this size...

[happyjack]

It has nothing to do with the size of the company. BA is much bigger and many have gone to law with successful results against them over the years. It has everything to do with the structure of the company quite deliberately designed to deny workers their rights. Look at the previous posts... "sign this statement to say you will not take legal recourse or no re-employment."
Netjets Europe has been an employment scam from day one. It still is. Quite honestly I am astounded that all these EU countries allow this psudo employment model to continue.

[Delta12]

It has nothing to do with the size of the company. BA is much bigger and many have gone to law with successful results against them over the years. It has everything to do with the structure of the company quite deliberately designed to deny workers their rights. Look at the previous posts... "sign this statement to say you will not take legal recourse or no re-employment."
Netjets Europe has been an employment scam from day one. It still is. Quite honestly I am astounded that all these EU countries allow this psudo employment model to continue.

Wow ! That is a terrific statement to call NetJets a scam !! I am flabbergasted big time.

What about this:

In Europe there is hardly no small BIZ Jet operator where you are not 24/7/365 on call !

I flew with guys from Vista that said, if there is no plan for the next day, you are considered to be available all day.

THAT is absolute crap ! Modern slavery at its best !

NetJets always and ever in my 13 years of employment respected the law, I was never asked to cut corners. They always adhered to the governing laws.

[happyjack]

"Wow ! That is a terrific statement to call NetJets a scam !! I am flabbergasted big time."

Read my comment again? I called their employment a scam.

[EatMyShorts!]

I guess we will see more comments by laid off Netjets crew once all the administrative items have been completed and the "compensation" has been paid out...

[Journey Man]

Forgive my ignorance, but what’s NetJet Europe’s model? Do they own and operate, or are the fractional owners on the hook for the monthly costs through the shutdown?

It will be interesting to see how the owned/leased fleets fair. Is Vista predominently leased?

[pilot dude]

What happened with the orders for the lattitude and longitude that netjets had. Will any of those come instead of the F2000? And if so, can the 2000 pilots come back on those?

[Journey Man]

What happened with the orders for the lattitude and longitude that netjets had. Will any of those come instead of the F2000? And if so, can the 2000 pilots come back on those?

Wasn’t NetJets the big order Textron needed for the Hemisphere as well? I think it was a big Longitude commitment at the same time. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Hemisphere and how NetJets proceed with those commitments. I’m not convinced Textron are capable of matching the likes of Gulfstream, Bombardier or Dassault in that sector, particularly in terms of tailored cabin fits and quality control. But no doubt the Hemisphere will be cheap in comparison.

You would think a fractional would be the ideal vehicle to mop up the touted occasional users of bizav who are expected to cause a bump in the market post-COVID19. Fingers crossed for the F2TH crew.

[733driver]

Wasn’t NetJets the big order Textron needed for the Hemisphere as well? I think it was a big Longitude commitment at the same time. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Hemisphere and how NetJets proceed with those commitments. I’m not convinced Textron are capable of matching the likes of Gulfstream, Bombardier or Dassault in that sector, particularly in terms of tailored cabin fits and quality control. But no doubt the Hemisphere will be cheap in comparison.

You would think a fractional would be the ideal vehicle to mop up the touted occasional users of bizav who are expected to cause a bump in the market post-COVID19. Fingers crossed for the F2TH crew.

The Hemisphere development has been suspended due to problems with the Silvercrest engine. The Longitude order still stands I believe and NetJets US have already started taking delivery.

And by the way, it's not just Falcon crews who are being made redundant. So good luck to all of the affected colleagues.

Fractional is a good alternative to full ownership and charter for those who use a private jet 50 to maybe 200 hours or so a year. The occasional user is better off chartering or buying a card. Someone who flies say 400 hours a year is probably better off with their own, managed aircraft.

[JHansell]

I have heard that NJE senior management have awarded themselves a pay rise following the recent management restructuring.... supposedly increased responsibilities... I thought in the consultations with the Union they claimed there was no money in the pot ? Shame on them...

[Mike Oxbig]

Very provocative name, Mr Hansell, on a NetJets redundancy thread!

[EatMyShorts!]

The real Hansell would have been proud of the current President of NJE.

[EatMyShorts!]

So, it looks like Netjets is making a u-turn to re-hire all crew that have been made redundant. Let's celebrate only when we have signed the contracts.

[no nonsense]

Yes they had an excellent vision on the future. Hire and fire optima forma. Complete financial madness.

[pilot dude]

Will all come back or have they taken other jobs. There where at least 4 Falcon companies hiring in the last four months

[EatMyShorts!]

We do not know yet...

[Delta12]

I bet most come back. Besides the ones who wanted to leave soon anyway.
Its still a great company with good Work/Life balance and renumeration.

[Globally Challenged]

I bet most come back. Besides the ones who wanted to leave soon anyway.
Its still a great company with good Work/Life balance and renumeration.
The money is crap but somewhat offset by the lifestyle if that is what you need. But calling it good is a stretch.

[Klimax]

I bet most come back. Besides the ones who wanted to leave soon anyway.
Its still a great company with good Work/Life balance and renumeration.

Too bad that job security is basically non existent in Netjets Europe - after what we've just witnessed and also looking back to the previous firing rounds. Seniority should matter in a company like NJE, but it obviously means little anymore.

[733driver]

The money is crap but somewhat offset by the lifestyle if that is what you need. But calling it good is a stretch.

The money is most certainly not crap if you compare it to other light and midsize jet pilot jobs in Europe. Sure, more money to be made elsewhere on Gulftsreams and Globals but the truly good jobs are few and far between.

[733driver]

Too bad that job security is basically non existent in Netjets Europe - after what we've just witnessed and also looking back to the previous firing rounds. Seniority should matter in a company like NJE, but it obviously means little anymore.

Couldn't agree more.

[Klimax]

The money is most certainly not crap if you compare it to other light and midsize jet pilot jobs in Europe. Sure, more money to be made elsewhere on Gulftsreams and Globals but the truly good jobs are few and far between.

You're certainly right IF put in the perspective of light and midsize jets in Europe - I did indeed make my benchmark according to the Large Cabin segment (BD700/4/5/650/F7X etc.) where the salary at NJE is comparatively low when up against most management company gigs. The only other major player in this segment is low baller Vista Jet that pays equally cr@p.

[EatMyShorts!]

NJE pays way better than Vista and the pay is the same across all fleets. So, even if you end up on a Light Jet (Phenom 300) you'll make the same base pay as a Global driver who had started the day/week as you. And the guys on the Light and Midsize Jets fly a loooooot and thus make another chunk of money as productivity bonus, regardless of the profitability of the company. The top pilots make about 1 extra monthly salary this way.

I think most people in NJE are aware that the money is good, but not fantastic and they happily trade in some money for
- a good roster of 6/6 or 7/6
- being based at home or wherever they wish
- normally a short commute

The only worrying component is now the fact that in hard times the company, or at least one person, does not care for previously agreed policies and that, according to UK law, even the union could not do much about it. Next year will provide NJE-crew with a new contract outside the UK, let's what it will look like and how the relationship between management and the union will evolve. At the moment it looks like moderate forces within NJE have won in recent weeks and that's why people are getting re-hired.

[Mike Oxbig]

So the top management has changed again. The (ex) president escorted from his office on Friday by the Security Manager and all those made redundant invited back. What a complete waste of money and (especially for those made redundant) emotional energy.

[Aso]

So the top management has changed again. The (ex) president escorted from his office on Friday by the Security Manager and all those made redundant invited back. What a complete waste of money and (especially for those made redundant) emotional energy.

Well make sense to get rid of the guy who mismanaged this whole thing...

[Klimax]

NJE pays way better than Vista and the pay is the same across all fleets. So, even if you end up on a Light Jet (Phenom 300) you'll make the same base pay as a Global driver who had started the day/week as you. And the guys on the Light and Midsize Jets fly a loooooot and thus make another chunk of money as productivity bonus, regardless of the profitability of the company. The top pilots make about 1 extra monthly salary this way.

I think most people in NJE are aware that the money is good, but not fantastic and they happily trade in some money for
- a good roster of 6/6 or 7/6
- being based at home or wherever they wish
- normally a short commute

The only worrying component is now the fact that in hard times the company, or at least one person, does not care for previously agreed policies and that, according to UK law, even the union could not do much about it. Next year will provide NJE-crew with a new contract outside the UK, let's what it will look like and how the relationship between management and the union will evolve. At the moment it looks like moderate forces within NJE have won in recent weeks and that's why people are getting re-hired.

All quite true, including that the money is not fantastic. It's actually off by some 20-40% when compared to rotational managed aircraft in the the large cabin segment (not the small stuff) in Europe. Why anybody would stay a FiestaJet is beyond me as well.

[Aso]

Why anybody would stay a FiestaJet is beyond me as well.

Fiestajet... LOL

Until mid march you were right and everybody was looking around... At the moment... It is a very good place to stay for another 3 or 4 years...

[EatMyShorts!]

Fiestajet is nice LOL

A lot of people are happy to trade in money for job-stability. Money's not everything in life and if you cannot make a good life from 130.000 EUR a year then you won't be able to enjoy life with 200.000 EUR a year.

[Klimax]

Fiestajet is nice LOL

A lot of people are happy to trade in money for job-stability. Money's not everything in life and if you cannot make a good life from 130.000 EUR a year then you won't be able to enjoy life with 200.000 EUR a year.

That’s very true. However, you can retire a couple of years earlier when the house is paid off and the pension investments you made with those 70k pay difference a year are paying off. But you’re right, if it’s only for casual spending..

Job stability went out the window at NJE when they sacked the whole Falcon fleet pilots. Doesn’t matter how long, or short, time you’ve spend with NJE. Wrong fleet - and goodbye, just like that.

[redsnail]

press article (https://expresso.pt/economia/2020-08-28-Elton-DSouza-ex-TAP-e-afastado-da-lideranca-da-NetJets-Europe-ao-fim-de-um-ano)

"Elton D´Souza, ex-TAP, is removed from the leadership of NetJets Europe after one year

28.08.2020 at 18h17

Linkedin
Pinterest

Link:

Elton D´Souza, the manager who left TAP shortly after winning one of the controversial performance awards, was invited to leave the leadership of NetJets, where he had joined about a year ago
Anabela Campos

Anabela Campos

Elton D´Souza, former director of TAP's revenue area, hardly warmed his chair at NetJets. One year after taking over the leadership of NetJet Europa, a private jet company headquartered in Paço de Arcos, Nelson D´Souza was removed from office.

The NetJets statement on the departure of Elton D´Souza, to which the Expresso had access, does not give the reason that justifies the departure, but it is done in a hostile tone, implying that the manager is not welcome in the company, and that its management lacked transparency.


"Elton D´Souza is leaving as president of NetJets Europe, and he will never join the company again", explains Adam Johnson, chairman of the board and president of NetJets worldwide, in a note announcing the resignation of the manager, and says that he will be replaced by the company's executive director, Christian Luwisch.

Adam Johnson stresses that the departure of Elton D´Souza is an "opportunity to contribute to greater collaboration, transparency and alignment in the relationship between NetJets USA and Europe". The president of NetJets also stresses that it is also an opportunity to build a "sustainable culture of trust, accountability, and respect" as determined in the 20/20 flight plan.

Elton d´Souza was one of the managers brought to TAP by David Neeleman, when the North American investor became a shareholder in the Portuguese carrier, from whose capital he is leaving.

The manager was at TAP for three years and seven months, and when he left the company he was the leader in the revenue area.

It was known to have been one of the two highest performance awards attributed by TAP in 2019, related to the financial year 2018, a year of losses, a decision that deserved open criticism from the Minister of Infrastructure. Elton D´Souza had received a prize of 110 thousand euros."

Not the usual "leaving to spend time with their family" quote.

[Klimax]

Another clown leaving the NJE circus! So much responsible for the covid-19 mess mismanagement. He will not be missed - according to all groups of employees.