RAF planes await order to set off to collect PPE from Turkey

[Lyneham Lad]

Article on The Guardian website this afternoon.

RAF planes await order to set off to collect PPE from Turkey (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/20/raf-planes-await-order-to-set-off-to-collect-ppe-from-turkey?CMP=share_btn_link)

Three RAF planes waiting to pick up a shipment of 400,000 protective gowns and other equipment urgently needed for the NHS remain on the tarmac at Brize Norton because the kit has yet to be released by Turkey (https://www.theguardian.com/world/turkey).

[GeeRam]

A400 ZM416 currently is in decent about 30nm NW of Istanbul.

[TCAS FAN]

If the A400 is “pre-positioning”, why does the other A400 and C17 not pre-position, if not to Turkey, possibly Akrotiri, unless UK gov does not believe that all the kit will be provided?

[Out Of Trim]

If the A400 is “pre-positioning”, why does the other A400 and C17 not pre-position, if not to Turkey, possibly Akrotiri, unless UK gov does not believe that all the kit will be provided?

Why would you send aircraft before their load is ready to be collected? They can still be used for other commitments until needed. ;)

[TCAS FAN]

Why would you send aircraft before their load is ready to be collected? They can still be used for other commitments until needed. ;)

Short flight to Istanbul, saving time on outbound positioning flights (are the loads not urgent?) and crews rested so that the aircraft could operate Akrotiri/Istanbul/Brize in a normal duty day.

[cessnapete]

BA have flown multiple return trips to Shanghai with B777 bringing in PPE in Holds, and cabin loaded. Carry double LR augmented crew.
No layover, 2 hour turnaround and straight back. Gets the kit to the UK in 28 hrs.

[deltahotel]

BA 777s (and 747s) have proper rest facilities on board.

[Rheinstorff]

BA have flown multiple return trips to Shanghai with B777 bringing in PPE in Holds, and cabin loaded. Carry double LR augmented crew.
No layover, 2 hour turnaround and straight back. Gets the kit to the UK in 28 hrs.

And no shortage of crews available due to reduced levels of activity, which is a bit different to an Air Mobility Force that is still in heavy demand.

[falcon900]

So why not have BA pick up the PPE from Turkey.....?

[cessnapete]

Yes sorry, my post not meant as criticism of RAF. But the airline appears has more spare capacity and proven flexibility of operations, than the RAF, in respect of this urgent requirement.

[Asturias56]

" Air Mobility Force that is still in heavy demand"

Doing what? Nothing is happening out there..............

[Lyneham Lad]

Update in The Guardian.
Turkish PPE flight: only 'slim' chance goods will arrive in UK today (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/turkish-ppe-flight-only-slim-chance-goods-will-arrive-in-uk-today?CMP=share_btn_link)

[unmanned_droid]

" Air Mobility Force that is still in heavy demand"

Doing what? Nothing is happening out there..............

At least one A400M has been near Bristol on a number of evenings in the past week or so. Unmistakable sound.

[Asturias56]

They seem to have been taking the opportunity to visit a number of civvie airfields - Luton as well..................

[bunta130]

" Air Mobility Force that is still in heavy demand"

Doing what? Nothing is happening out there..............

Other than covering standing commitments in terms of resupplying garrisons and troops deployed.......and carting stuff around for NHS/aeromed etc. Pretty normal tasking, I'd say. Maybe a bit of trg too.....

[Wycombe]

ZM416 just airborne from Istanbul by the looks as RRR4995

[Dockwell]

BA have flown multiple return trips to Shanghai with B777 bringing in PPE in Holds, and cabin loaded. Carry double LR augmented crew.
No layover, 2 hour turnaround and straight back. Gets the kit to the UK in 28 hrs.

Virgin are doing the same 3 x a week with a 787

[sangiovese.]

Virgin are doing the same 3 x a week with a 787

Virgin were doing it 19 days before BA even got slightly organised...

[Del Prado]

C-17 just departed that direction though I’m not sure of destination.

[falcon900]

At the risk of sounding cynical, is the use of the RAF for this task not just a PR stunt to make it look like the Government are pulling out all of the stops?
In truth the deployment of a military aircraft fo the trip to Turkey probably made it marginally more difficult from an administrative perspective, and the task could easily have been completed by the civilian airfreight sector, which is demonstrably still operational and effective if the fruit (South America) and vegetables (Africa) in my fridge are anything to go by.
Come to think of it, would it not be better to outsource the procurement of PPE to Tesco/Asda/Sainsburys who seem to be able to manage their supply chains rather well?
Ps Interesting that NHS Scotland managed to charter a 747 to bring in a load of PPE in to Prestwick at the weekend.

[Ken Scott]

At the risk of sounding cynical, is the use of the RAF for this task not just a PR stunt to make it look like the Government are pulling out all of the stops?

RAF AT is already paid for, sitting on the apron and the crews probably need the hours, so why not use them for an urgent task rather than getting them to fly empty airframes around for training whilst paying a civil company to fly the loads?

[safetypee]

The military forces have a role as an 'aid to the civil power'; so use them.

The current situation is a 'civil', sociological war, where principles of war still apply.

'Operation Rescript', 'Operation Broadshare'.

The lads and lasses are doing their bit; take a positive viewpoint, get outside and clap them opposed to following tabloid negativity.

[ExAscoteer2]

RAF AT is already paid for, sitting on the apron and the crews probably need the hours, so why not use them for an urgent task

What urgent task are you going to achieve with a Hawk exactly in support of this crisis?

[Ken Scott]

That would depend on whether you considered a ‘Hawk’ to be part of ‘RAF AT’...?

[ExAscoteer2]

Ah misunderstood. I read your post as RAF Aerobatics Team!

[Ken Scott]

And you with the handle, ‘ExAscoteer’...!!

[gijoe]

The military forces have a role as an 'aid to the civil power'; so use them.

No they don't.

[topgas]

No they don't.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2015-to-2020-government-policy-military-aid-to-the-civil-authorities-for-activities-in-the-uk/2015-to-2020-government-policy-military-aid-to-the-civil-authorities-for-activities-in-the-uk

[ExAscoteer2]

No they don't.

In UK yes they do.

[falcon900]

I was given to understand that the RAF airlift capacity had other calls on its time, but even if it was sitting idle, the cost benefit analysis relative to what surplus civilian capacity could have been chartered for would make interesting reading. Anyway, the assertion that there is marginal capacity which can be considered to be available at a discounted rate / free will no doubt provide for much opportunistic future deployment.
But I am reassured to learn that PR wasn’t involved.

[racedo]

If anything shows how incompetent and inept this Govt is then it is this. The crew does as is told but yet again they are being led by donkeys.

[gijoe]

In UK yes they do.

I say again, no they don’t.

[gijoe]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2015-to-2020-government-policy-military-aid-to-the-civil-authorities-for-activities-in-the-uk/2015-to-2020-government-policy-military-aid-to-the-civil-authorities-for-activities-in-the-uk

Precisely - last time I looked it was an A not a P.

...but don’t want to let that get in the way of someone that probably retired many years ago and knows it all.

[deeceethree]

gijoe, why didn't you think to make your point obvious at the outset, instead of indulging in the to and fro of Yes and No? It was only the semantics that seemed to bother you, A versus P, so why not just get that out in the open right away? But instead you resorted to an entirely unnecessary tit for tat - why?

[ExAscoteer2]

Precisely - last time I looked it was an A not a P.

...but don’t want to let that get in the way of someone that probably retired many years ago and knows it all.

1. You don't know when I retired.
2. You are arguing semantics.
3. Your pathetic attempt at insult is water off a duck's back.

You know where you can stick it.

[Asturias56]

Ladies, ladies - please put away the handbags...................... it adds nothing to either the argument or the thread.

[Coltishall. loved it]

Ladies, ladies - please put away the handbags...................... it adds nothing to either the argument or the thread.

Hence why normal people don't do Facebook etc.

[TEEEJ]

C-17 and A400M outbound/inbound Istanbul.

https://twitter.com/air_intel/status/1253353990995222529

[TEEEJ]

Well done to all! C-17 ZZ175 now back at RAF Brize Norton. :ok:

A400M ZM417 has left Istanbul heading for Brize.

https://www.radarbox.com/data/registration/ZM417