Wizz Air announces 1,000 redundancies as it cuts 19% of workforce

[samca]

Just to put everybody on the loop. Good luck to all the Captains and First Officer that did Wizzair what it is today.

​​​​​​https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/breaking-wizz-air-announces-1000-21862310

[Banana Joe]

Concerning the pilot group, is it just floaters and contractors in general that were made redundant or also some on local contracts?

[dirk85]

Concerning the pilot group, is it just floaters and contractors in general that were made redundant or also some on local contracts?

Also local contracts. They didn't use seniority either. Redundancy were based on crew "performance", whatever that means. Line training Captains with 15 years seniority were let go, together with recently made Captains or junior FOs...

[RexBanner]

Are these 1000 pilot redundancies (surely not) or company wide? I’m not going to lie and say I enjoyed my time at Wizz (for other reasons) but there were almost exclusively good guys there, best of luck to all those who this effects, horrific times.

[dirk85]

It's about 265 pilots, 700 cabin crew, and the rest office staff.

[RexBanner]

“Performance reasons”. :yuk: The perils of not having a Union I suppose, they can chop whoever they don’t like.

[samca]

“Performance reasons”. :yuk: The perils of not having a Union I suppose, they can chop whoever they don’t like.
I think with contractors they just apply seniority maybe. Locals contract has been taking in consideration “performance”. Maybe here BCs opinión of every base has been the point more significative. There is people fired with more than 6 years, even 10 years and also new joiners. A mix of everything. Nobody knows how this list has been created. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[truckflyer]

Also local contracts. They didn't use seniority either. Redundancy were based on crew "performance", whatever that means. Line training Captains with 15 years seniority were let go, together with recently made Captains or junior FOs...

I hear Captain over 15.000 hours, no disciplinary issues, let go, how is that possible. I am wondering if they been looking to let the higher earners go. Awful times.

[nightstopmonster]

As one of the captains affected it seemed that pilots were simply chopped from bases where there were aircraft reductions, so a pilot from the 'wrong' base would go irrespective of his/her time served. Hence some line trainers went from the more affected bases along with new joiners at others.
An FO who I joined with last year thankfully still has his job. He was working in a different country and the axe didn't fall on his area. I don't think that performance played much of a part of the selection even though it's mentioned in the redundancy criteria. Wrong place and you were out on a last in/first out basis from what I can make of it. Purely academic however, the whole situation sucks. Particularly disappointing from a company thats as cash rich as Wizz Is.

[Brix]

There are two kinds of airlines in this world. Those who use the rule of fear and those who respect their employees.

It's not awful times, it's awful companies.

[samca]

There are two kinds of airlines in this world. Those who use the rule of fear and those who respect their employees.

It's not awful times, it's awful companies.
Yes. Is the best quote I have read for a long time.
here is not a matter of cash, liquity or survival of the company. Is a matter of lack of Emotional Intelligence of the management and shareholders.
but... life is a two ways street and how you treat people they will treat you. And is very easy to treat good people in the good times but you also have do it in the times “less profitable” let say.

[Meester proach]

As one of the captains affected it seemed that pilots were simply chopped from bases where there were aircraft reductions, so a pilot from the 'wrong' base would go irrespective of his/her time served. Hence some line trainers went from the more affected bases along with new joiners at others.
An FO who I joined with last year thankfully still has his job. He was working in a different country and the axe didn't fall on his area. I don't think that performance played much of a part of the selection even though it's mentioned in the redundancy criteria. Wrong place and you were out on a last in/first out basis from what I can make of it. Purely academic however, the whole situation sucks. Particularly disappointing from a company thats as cash rich as Wizz Is.


best of luck,could well be joining you shortly

[turbine100]

There are two kinds of airlines in this world. Those who use the rule of fear and those who respect their employees.

It's not awful times, it's awful companies.

They are an awful company.

Didn't they pay poorly with no good benefits such as retirement. Employ through some agencies with poor contractual terms with questions marks around taxation models.

They are most likely not able to gain some of the Government furlough to help employees in some countries like the U.K in how they structure their employment model.

Best of luck for those affected with this

[Klimax]

Easy come - easy go.

[A321drvr]

Latest rumor is that the base captains were given a free hand (and a number besides all confair ppl) on who to let go in their respective bases. From then on it was down to each and every one of them to do the "cleansing", no questions asked.

Same was done on the cabin side by the base managers.
​​​​

[truckflyer]

Considering also the base pay is only 1/3 of your pay, it's pretty misleading when they say flight crew have only taken a few percentage pay cut, it's rather a 70% pay cut in reality.

Best of luck to all involved.

[Klimax]

What and awesome company. Why wouldn't everybody want to work for such an employer. Yikes.

[samca]

What and awesome company. Why wouldn't everybody want to work for such an employer. Yikes.
If they act like this with 1.5B liquity, imagine the day that they go to a tougher situation what can they do...

[Klimax]

If they act like this with 1.5B liquity, imagine the day that they go to a tougher situation what can they do...

No wonder they've functioned more or less as a stepping stone for better options. Unfortunately, now, they might no longer have a recruitment problem when travel picks up again.

[PilotLZ]

Any idea what happened with the numerous NTR cadets in training or waiting for the OCC?

[nightstopmonster]

Any idea what happened with the numerous NTR cadets in training or waiting for the OCC?

All I can tell you is that the 150 hour cadets that I went through my initial groundschool training with this winter were let go on Tuesday.

[PilotLZ]

The ones from the pilot academy doing the CPL course? Or already doing the type rating?

[nightstopmonster]

They had passed their type ratings and had just started line training.

[samca]

OCC guys waiting for the sim after finishing the type rating continue employed. Strange but...

[Banana Joe]

Permanent 30% paycut for current flight crews, is this confirmed?
​​​​​​

[PilotLZ]

OCC guys waiting for the sim after finishing the type rating continue employed. Strange but...
Were they assigned to different bases than the ones who got terminated during line training? Maybe Wizz air decided to keep more people in the bases where greater demand is forecast. Especially if said people are local as the benefit of living at home can outweigh one's will to jump ships even in the long-term run, when the market does improve.

[samca]

Permanent 30% paycut for current flight crews, is this confirmed?
​​​​​​
No, is around 19%

[samca]

They didn't start the line training. They just finished the Type Rating and were waiting for the OCC and line training... all of them still employed.

[PilotLZ]

We'll probably never know for sure, but it sounds like the criteria for letting people go definitely had nothing to do with LIFO. Perhaps more like a combination of individual performance and forecast demand in a given base. Plus Confair/floating.

[FlexToga]

Base Captains had a lot of hand with this issue and did the dirty job for the company. After they revealed a list with all fired pilots, I could see a very diverse group of pilots, from LTC who were in the company for more than 10 years, CAPT, F/O and cadets. I personally know some guys that are on that list and I can say they weren't the favorites of the base. They included as well a lot of guys from Confair and floating. Lots of Italians have been fired...looks like the company has been waiting for them. From my point of view they knew to who to fire long time ago.

[truckflyer]

Wizz have a blacklist, if you refuse to work on days off when they call you up etc., than you get put on their blacklist, and also for other things you end up on the blacklist.

[Banana Joe]

As an Italian who tried to join the company not so long ago, I am really curious to know why allegedly lots of Italians have been fired. Is anybody willing to expand on that?

[booze]

As an Italian who tried to join the company not so long ago, I am really curious to know why allegedly lots of Italians have been fired. Is anybody willing to expand on that?

I have no idea however 134 local (Polish, Bulgarian, Hungarian, etc.) guys were let go.

[PilotLZ]

Base Captains had a lot of hand with this issue and did the dirty job for the company. After they revealed a list with all fired pilots, I could see a very diverse group of pilots, from LTC who were in the company for more than 10 years, CAPT, F/O and cadets. I personally know some guys that are on that list and I can say they weren't the favorites of the base. They included as well a lot of guys from Confair and floating. Lots of Italians have been fired...looks like the company has been waiting for them. From my point of view they knew to who to fire long time ago.
This probably means that the doors are now permanently closed for these guys, even when demand picks up and the company starts hiring again. Why would you hire someone who has already been labelled as a troublemaker and blacklisted if you can instead choose someone else who is happy to play by the rules if that means a paycheck and hours in the logbook? And there will be no shortage of potential candidates for any flight deck role for the foreseeable future.

[dirk85]

This probably means that the doors are now permanently closed for these guys, even when demand picks up and the company starts hiring again. Why would you hire someone who has already been labelled as a troublemaker and blacklisted if you can instead choose someone else who is happy to play by the rules if that means a paycheck and hours in the logbook? And there will be no shortage of potential candidates for any flight deck role for the foreseeable future.

Wishful thinking. Not all those fired were troublemakers. Many good guys were let go as well, and there is no reason they won’t be hired back in favour of a newbie that nobody knows.
And remember that real troublemakers were let go on a regular basis even before coronavirus if company had half a decent reason: there is no union in Wizzair and company has no mercy.

[RexBanner]

Not always true Dirk, there were massive CRM issues with two of the local Captains in Vilnius in my time there to the extent that virtually half of the FOs had complained and refused to fly with them. The base captain there at the time even emailed HQ in BUD to ask rostering for those people not to be paired together. One was even on a command blacklist from his previous airline due CRM and safety issues. The company couldn’t get rid (at the time - I don’t know what’s happened since) as they were struggling to recruit pilots.

[FlexToga]

As an Italian who tried to join the company not so long ago, I am really curious to know why allegedly lots of Italians have been fired. Is anybody willing to expand on that?

Good question, and some guys were asking the same thing, I heard int he past from different pilots that some Italians left the company in bad conditions without respecting the contract and so on... who knows if that's true or not...but the thing is in that list there were quite a lot of Italians.

[FlexToga]

Wishful thinking. Not all those fired were troublemakers. Many good guys were let go as well, and there is no reason they won’t be hired back in favour of a newbie that nobody knows.
And remember that real troublemakers were let go on a regular basis even before coronavirus if company had half a decent reason: there is no union in Wizzair and company has no mercy.

Correct of course not all of them were troublemakers, but I know 4 from that list that they were on the target from long time ago by some base captains, (A couple of them called to the office for tea and cookies several times ). Others I knew they will be on that list due to their poor CRM, for example one of them from the main base and with more than 10 years of service in the airline.

[truckflyer]

Not always true Dirk, there were massive CRM issues with two of the local Captains in Vilnius in my time there to the extent that virtually half of the FOs had complained and refused to fly with them. The base captain there at the time even emailed HQ in BUD to ask rostering for those people not to be paired together. One was even on a command blacklist from his previous airline due CRM and safety issues. The company couldn’t get rid (at the time - I don’t know what’s happened since) as they were struggling to recruit pilots.

One of them, the only one i know of, I met his ex girlfriend last summer, and he had just been fired a month earlier.
I asked her why, and she told me you know why, apparently he was exactly the same in their relationship as he was on the flight deck, a real miserable .........!
So it took them 6 years to get rid of the bald Mr CRM. To be fair, over all the years, none I have met have been anything close to how he was.

Curious you could PM who was the other. :)

[truckflyer]

Good question, and some guys were asking the same thing, I heard int he past from different pilots that some Italians left the company in bad conditions without respecting the contract and so on... who knows if that's true or not...but the thing is in that list there were quite a lot of Italians.

Well there was a time they did not want Dutch, British or Italian, because as soon as they got better job offers they left, if you treat your employees like crap you get very little loyalty in return.
There was guys paying back their TR 1000 Euro a month for 18 months, living on crumbles, and than they still bonded you for another 18 months, despite you had paid them back 18.000 Euros, the TR cost them nothing, as was provided by Airbus as part of the aircraft purchases, and even if they had paid for it, it would not cost 36.000 Euros, but that's what they bonded you for over 3 years that time.

It went so far that they threaten to not release security reference letters to new employees if you left, which is not legal, as people were escaping as soon as they got half decent offers from other companies.

[FlexToga]

Well there was a time they did not want Dutch, British or Italian, because as soon as they got better job offers they left, if you treat your employees like crap you get very little loyalty in return.
There was guys paying back their TR 1000 Euro a month for 18 months, living on crumbles, and than they still bonded you for another 18 months, despite you had paid them back 18.000 Euros, the TR cost them nothing, as was provided by Airbus as part of the aircraft purchases, and even if they had paid for it, it would not cost 36.000 Euros, but that's what they bonded you for over 3 years that time.

It went so far that they threaten to not release security reference letters to new employees if you left, which is not legal, as people were escaping as soon as they got half decent offers from other companies.
100% correct.

[Flying Clog]

Reading all of the above, good riddance to Wizz Air.

[giggitygiggity]

Well there was a time they did not want Dutch, British or Italian, because as soon as they got better job offers they left, if you treat your employees like crap you get very little loyalty in return.
There was guys paying back their TR 1000 Euro a month for 18 months, living on crumbles, and than they still bonded you for another 18 months, despite you had paid them back 18.000 Euros, the TR cost them nothing, as was provided by Airbus as part of the aircraft purchases, and even if they had paid for it, it would not cost 36.000 Euros, but that's what they bonded you for over 3 years that time.

It went so far that they threaten to not release security reference letters to new employees if you left, which is not legal, as people were escaping as soon as they got half decent offers from other companies.
Excuse me splitting hairs, but it's never free, it's just part of the deal. If they didn't have the type ratings included, then they can get a cheaper deal. Assuming 12 pilots per aircraft, even at 20k it would cost 240k. Airbus isn't a charity.

[dirk85]

Not always true Dirk, there were massive CRM issues with two of the local Captains in Vilnius in my time there to the extent that virtually half of the FOs had complained and refused to fly with them. The base captain there at the time even emailed HQ in BUD to ask rostering for those people not to be paired together. One was even on a command blacklist from his previous airline due CRM and safety issues. The company couldn’t get rid (at the time - I don’t know what’s happened since) as they were struggling to recruit pilots.

One of those 2 Captain was fired almost one year ago for reasons unrelated to coronavirus, the other one is still in the company as we speak, and survived the axe now.

[dirk85]

One of them, the only one i know of, I met his ex girlfriend last summer, and he had just been fired a month earlier.
I asked her why, and she told me you know why, apparently he was exactly the same in their relationship as he was on the flight deck, a real miserable .........!
So it took them 6 years to get rid of the bald Mr CRM. To be fair, over all the years, none I have met have been anything close to how he was.

Curious you could PM who was the other. :)

I know that guy, and I would not take the word of the recent ex wife as the holy bible. I flew with him countless times, yes, he was not the easiest guy in the world at times but if you cannot adapt to these kind of personalities I would suggest you might struggle with a lot of other people.
People are such snowflakes these days, and trust me, you will find many particular personalities in this business, grow a pair and deal with it (not specifically addressed to anybody in particular here).

[truckflyer]

I know that guy, and I would not take the word of the recent ex wife as the holy bible. I flew with him countless times, yes, he was not the easiest guy in the world at times but if you cannot adapt to these kind of personalities I would suggest you might struggle with a lot of other people.
People are such snowflakes these days, and trust me, you will find many particular personalities in this business, grow a pair and deal with it (not specifically addressed to anybody in particular here).

Excuse me, the guy was breaking SOP's all the time, and I am not talking about small unimportant details, we talking about things that can make you creating a big black hole in the ground.
I don't need his ex to confirm what I saw with my own 2 eyes. Things like continuing below minimum on Cat 1 approach, that was one of many safety related incidents with him.
Grabbing the thrust lever into TOGA while still lining up on the runway.
Maybe the time you flew with him he had got so many warnings that he had mellowed, but before you I can promise you he was a danger for safety.

Every approach R.O.D of + 6000 ft/min if he could, he is supposed to be an airline pilot, providing a comfortable flight for all passengers, not a flight for his own ego to see how great he is.

[dirk85]

I am assuming you filed ASRs for all this stuff, right? Because if you didn't you are no better than him, while if you did, knowing Wizzair safety department he would not have been in the company for as long as he did.

[truckflyer]

I am assuming you filed ASRs for all this stuff, right? Because if you didn't you are no better than him, while if you did, knowing Wizzair safety department he would not have been in the company for as long as he did.

You seem to be pretty righteous and presumptuous. Get of your high horse, and don't assume I did nothing.

After that he had little meeting in BUD, only because he applied to become a trainer, which was turned down for obvious reasons.
He still stayed there for many years after.

[brushcounsel]

I am assuming you filed ASRs for all this stuff, right? Because if you didn't you are no better than him, while if you did, knowing Wizzair safety department he would not have been in the company for as long as he did.

Hahaha. Wizz Air safety department is a joke and most people working there know it. It's just that you haven't been in bases, where the real cowboys are still flying after years in the company.

[dirk85]

You seem to be pretty righteous and presumptuous. Get of your high horse, and don't assume I did nothing.

After that he had little meeting in BUD, only because he applied to become a trainer, which was turned down for obvious reasons.
He still stayed there for many years after.

That's ironic, coming from the guy that just slandered someone on a public forum without that guy being able to defend himself, and judging by your reaction, you have no proof of what you are saying either because you filed no report.

Who's being presumptuous now?

[dirk85]

Hahaha. Wizz Air safety department is a joke and most people working there know it. It's just that you haven't been in bases, where the real cowboys are still flying after years in the company.

Not my experience, and for the record, I have seen quite a few bases, including by the looks of it, some of those where all this cowboys were flying.
And once again, unless you filed multiple ASRs or brought these things to the attention of the CAA I would say you don't have any leg to stand on, and are actually exposing yourself to a lot of legal troubles, should Wizzair read this forum.

[truckflyer]

That's ironic, coming from the guy that just slandered someone on a public forum without that guy being able to defend himself, and judging by your reaction, you have no proof of what you are saying either because you filed no report.

Who's being presumptuous now?

What makes you believe I did not file a report?

I actually wrote a 4 page A4 word document report which was fully supported by BC. All was sent through the right channels.

As I told he had a small meeting in Bud, and that was it.
Most others complaining, did not make a report.

I refused to fly with him after we did a Cat 1 approach, and he reported visual while we was not, and continued to fly for 2-3 seconds before we became visual.
That after spending the whole flight arguing about the amount of fuel, as he refused to take extra fuel for another Cat 2 airport.

I still have copy of the report and the weather report of that day. It was a big lesson early in my aviation career.

I also had the pleasure to see live the interaction with Rexbanner a few times, and I can say what he says is 100% correct.

I have not given his name, I am not lying, I am not talking about hearsay, these are facts based on personal experience. And it was well documented in multiple reports to the company.

However I did hear from others later that he did get slightly better, so maybe that's why you was lucky and met the improved version.

Management was aware of this even when we joined, as during a meeting after some time joining, FO's was asked if all was ok, and we all said yes, but... and he knew straight away without anyone mentioning the name who it was.

He had been blacklisted from Command in a previous company, that was common knowledge provided by BC.

[RexBanner]

I knew I’d get a bite out of Truckflyer :ok:

[dirk85]

Kudos to you then, most people never wrote any report, yet feel the need to complain publicly, which is not smart or coherent.

[brushcounsel]

And once again, unless you filed multiple ASRs or brought these things to the attention of the CAA I would say you don't have any leg to stand on, and are actually exposing yourself to a lot of legal troubles, should Wizzair read this forum.

I did file some ASRs. And I don't know about you, but in my book if you had to involve CAA in safety issue, the airline's safety department has long failed in their job. Not too worried about legal issues, it's all documented in their system.

You keep defending Wizzair, but isn't it funny - we don't read about such issues with any large European airlines here. Just Wizz.

[truckflyer]

Kudos to you then, most people never wrote any report, yet feel the need to complain publicly, which is not smart or coherent.

Well that was the problem, loads complaining but never making the report.
And I always told them to make a report, but I don't know how many did.

I do admit I did not want the guy to get fired, that was not something I took pleasure in thinking, and as I was very new in aviation it took a few "incidents" to build up, but it started to be to much, it was cumulative building up over months.
And seeing his name on your roster, you just dreaded every flight knowing that try to do your job in a professional way, and ignore the noise, but when it became real safety related I could not continue ignoring it anymore.

We all do mistakes, thats why we have CRM and SOP's, and as I said, besides him I never had any issues with anyone. I am guessing you were there later, and I did hear that he had improved, and I guess that was what I would have wanted. I was not looking to get him fired, but equally at the same time I am not looking to risk my life either.

The other guy on the contrary, I had a great relationship with, he did have some interesting stories if you managed to get him to talk, however the obstacle there was that he did not like to speak English that much. But he was a good guy, at least for my experience.

[SADDLER]

I know that guy, and I would not take the word of the recent ex wife as the holy bible. I flew with him countless times, yes, he was not the easiest guy in the world at times but if you cannot adapt to these kind of personalities I would suggest you might struggle with a lot of other people.
People are such snowflakes these days, and trust me, you will find many particular personalities in this business, grow a pair and deal with it (not specifically addressed to anybody in particular here).

Sensible comment by someone who is probably dead on to fly with.

[dirk85]

Rotten apples are everywhere, even in companies with better reputation on pprune than Wizzair. Wizzair is one of the biggest employers in Europe and plenty of pilots on this forum have worked or work there, and notoriously people unhappy or with bad stories are more vocal than happy people.
Wizzair standard is higher than people make it here, and judging by the number of people hired by other companies such as easyJe, BA or similar training managers tend to agree.
Smaller companies, especially in eastern Europe, but not only, are in my experience far worse under many aspects.

[Klimax]

You sound like the better knowing clown in the circus.

[TBSC]

if you refuse to work on days off when they call you up etc., than you get put on their blacklist No you don't. For other things with your own bosses you might (no clue) but nothing like that in OCC at all. Dispatchers couldn't care less, they just move on to the next call.

[truckflyer]

No you don't. For other things with your own bosses you might (no clue) but nothing like that in OCC at all. Dispatchers couldn't care less, they just move on to the next call.

Nope, it was like that before. Also you can see from the document regarding the guidance for making people redundant, and one of the points there was regarding working or not working on days off.

I can back up my statement on this, when you call crewing 3-4 months after refusing to working on a day off, and they remind you that they would like to help you out, like you helped them out 3-4 months earlier when you refused to work on a day off.

[samca]

No you don't. For other things with your own bosses you might (no clue) but nothing like that in OCC at all. Dispatchers couldn't care less, they just move on to the next call.
anyway there is no point to put people on a blacklist if they don’t want to work on their days off. And also it wouldn’t be fair to say that this pilots “performances” or whatever they want to call it are worst than other...

[PilotLZ]

There's no black and white way of quantifying a pilot's performance. Even something like number of FDM events per 100 hours cannot be an adequate measure of how well is said pilot doing his job as each and every event needs to be considered in context. When there are hundreds and thousands of pilots to consider, nobody will waste time analysing their flight history bit by bit. They will be looking for something that is more or less on the surface. Did you refuse to cooperate in a schedule revision? Did you use strategic sick leave to bridge blocks of days OFF? Were you involved in some trouble? Were there any reports concerning misconduct on your part? Did you fail a checkride some time ago? Did you try to set up some informal union or were you openly critical of the management? There you go... I've personally seen that happen in other carriers and I've heard stories of colleagues having experienced it in other carriers. You might be very good at flying planes, but if you piss off the wrong people, your going will be a matter of when, not of if.

[brushcounsel]

Wizzair standard is higher than people make it here, and judging by the number of people hired by other companies such as easyJe, BA or similar training managers tend to agree.

It is high, however the people which move to EZY, BA, etc. aren't the people who are topic of this discussion. Just because most FOs are sharp and good enough to move to greener grass, doesn't mean anything in this context.

Smaller companies, especially in eastern Europe, but not only, are in my experience far worse under many aspects

Wizz Air should be benchmarking themselves towards other larger players in Europe, not some mom-and-pop corrupt shop in the East.

[truckflyer]

I can recall sometimes they would start calling on a day off, non duty day, they would start calling 6 - 7 hours into rest time, if this wasn't replied you would start getting SMS messages and emails. I know of at least a couple of times this would go on all day, as they was desperate to get someone for a duty with missing crews.

This was breach of FTL's, but they did not care, this was repeated occurrence.

And they would offer you 30 Euros, which was equal 1 sector as compensation.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

In the end when people were leaving in droves, I remember they got so desperate they offered a guy 150 Euros, which still was was a pittance to work on your off day, but he also got the OFF day given back, which shows how much they moved from offering nothing, to at least doing something.

Back on topic though, my understanding from people in the know, it was left to the base Captains who that was let go.
If there was some wrong doing with regards to the letter of the law, let's hope the people who lost their jobs get the correct legal help and advice.

[TBSC]

Nope, it was like that before. Also you can see from the document regarding the guidance for making people redundant, and one of the points there was regarding working or not working on days off. I can back up my statement on this, when you call crewing 3-4 months after refusing to working on a day off, and they remind you that they would like to help you out, like you helped them out 3-4 months earlier when you refused to work on a day off. Again, there is no blacklist in OCC. It's one of the numerous Bravo Sierra things the crew believe without having the slightest clue how the OCC is working aside of rumours heard on galley FM. BC/BMs might have their personal list (number of days flown on off days, "strategic sickness" as someone mentioned can be checked in AIMS quite easily without any blacklist), no clue, not interested either, I was talking about OCC. Fake sickness-reporters, dodgers, notorious oversleepers, CRM-kings, "somehow I lost the flight plan/journey log/gendec" type of colleagues etc. are remembered though. If you were remembered by name 3-4 months later...
They never offered anyone 150 EUR for sure. Someone might demanded that amount and got lucky but dispatchers never "offered" such amount (and even this was a long time ago, it's stritcly limited for years now).

[dirk85]

Funny enough in my time in Wizzair I was never called on my days off. I might have seen maybe couple of missed calls from ops, but I am notoriously slow to answer the phone. I know in Romania it was a different story.
To be fair I was called 2 times only from standbies in 2 years, while in my current employer I get called 50% of the times, despite running a slightly higher crew ratio. Never understood why.

[truckflyer]

Again, there is no blacklist in OCC. It's one of the numerous Bravo Sierra things the crew believe without having the slightest clue how the OCC is working aside of rumours heard on galley FM. BC/BMs might have their personal list (number of days flown on off days, "strategic sickness" as someone mentioned can be checked in AIMS quite easily without any blacklist), no clue, not interested either, I was talking about OCC. Fake sickness-reporters, dodgers, notorious oversleepers, CRM-kings, "somehow I lost the flight plan/journey log/gendec" type of colleagues etc. are remembered though. If you were remembered by name 3-4 months later...
They never offered anyone 150 EUR for sure. Someone might demanded that amount and got lucky but dispatchers never "offered" such amount (and even this was a long time ago, it's stritcly limited for years now).

You mean like those non existing fatigue reports.

Not sure how long you worked for the company, but this is the way it worked.
Also regarding the Day Off payment, it's quite disgraceful that they don't offer proper pay for this, the 150 EUR was a one off, and even that amount is a pittance, than again some are happy to not value their OFF day.
Let's not forget the amazing leave system, where you don't get credit for your OFF days. Like in all other normal companies.

[RexBanner]

To be fair I was called 2 times only from standbies in 2 years, while in my current employer I get called 50% of the times, despite running a slightly higher crew ratio. Never understood why.

Because there’s no sick pay in Wizz plus the double whammy of also losing your sector pay. Hence the amount of people in Wizz you used to see coming in with streaming colds.

[Eurowest]

So how much is Wizz paying for their FO/CPT who decide to use their day off to work?

Even in my smaller airline our FOs get minimum of 200 euros up to 600 for night shift. That's not including the basic hour pay plus extras.

[truckflyer]

Funny enough in my time in Wizzair I was never called on my days off. I might have seen maybe couple of missed calls from ops, but I am notoriously slow to answer the phone. I know in Romania it was a different story.
To be fair I was called 2 times only from standbies in 2 years, while in my current employer I get called 50% of the times, despite running a slightly higher crew ratio. Never understood why.

Small base with few aircraft, everyone knows that if you report fatigue more than 2-3 times a year, you will be invited for a meeting in BUD. I can honestly not recall a single person ever reporting fatigue.
As for those calls on Days Off, they did happen, sometimes to go to other bases, or return from Days Off early to do duty as the base was constantly under crewed.

As for reporting "sick", that was the only way to report fatigue, and the company made money on that, because they deducted your salary for your sick day.

[dirk85]

I called fatigue three or four times in 24 months and never had the pleasure to fly to Budapest for any meeting. As for the sick pay a lot changed whether you were on Confair or local contract, I called sick maybe once and I don't recall any deduction, but then again one day of base salary would have made almost no difference on a normal salary so I might not have noticed anyway.
Despite flying less hours and having more days off and hp days I am far more fatigued in my orange airline than I ever was in Wizz, probably due to the higher number of sectors and busier airports. Or me getting older maybe.
The number of fatigue reports are not comparable also for another reason, especially on the cabin crew side: the work ethic in Eastern Europe was definitely different than here in my experience, and before you mention the fear of losing on salary, a UK easyJet cabin crew struggle to make ends meet more than a RIX or VNO Wizzair cabin crew, given the slavery kind of money they all get in both companies and the relative cost of life.

[Flying Clog]

This bottom feeding airline sounds like a cockroach that refuses to die.

[BarryMG]

Gyus, let's not spread misinformation here.
First of all - the bonus for flying from OFF is currently around 60/100/200 EUR for FO/SFO/CPT respectively. So 150EUR for flying from off is nothing special.
Second - if you are on local contract, you get all the sick pays etc. as per the local law. So don't blame the company, blame the local NHS. If you're on Confair, YOU are responsible for paying taxes, health insurance etc. wherever you seem appropriate. So again, if you don't get a proper sick pay, blame either your NHS wherever you're paying taxes, or blame yourself for dodging payments. Also nobody forces anybody to go on Confair, you can always go local and get proper health insurance.

I'm not saying Wizz is perfect, far from it - but at least please get the facts straight.

[PilotLZ]

And let's not forget that in the region where most Wizz air operations take place there are loads and loads of other airlines, mostly small and not widely known, which do not pay any extra for working on what has initially been designated as a day off. You simply get a roster revision and you either take it as read or face the ugly consequences. So, on the grand scheme of things in that part of the world, a €60 bonus for working on a day off is not a bad offer.

[truckflyer]

Gyus, let's not spread misinformation here.
First of all - the bonus for flying from OFF is currently around 60/100/200 EUR for FO/SFO/CPT respectively. So 150EUR for flying from off is nothing special.
Second - if you are on local contract, you get all the sick pays etc. as per the local law. So don't blame the company, blame the local NHS. If you're on Confair, YOU are responsible for paying taxes, health insurance etc. wherever you seem appropriate. So again, if you don't get a proper sick pay, blame either your NHS wherever you're paying taxes, or blame yourself for dodging payments. Also nobody forces anybody to go on Confair, you can always go local and get proper health insurance.

I'm not saying Wizz is perfect, far from it - but at least please get the facts straight.

"bonus" for day off, that is anyway a joke of a payment, "real" airlines give you 300 - 1000 Euros a day to work a day off. NAS FO's would get 500 Euros.

As for the tax system, do you really want to go there? Local or Non - Local, you are paying taxes to Switzerland? WTF? You are "self employed" in Confair contract, at same time you get a Swiss employment contract. Very nice......
And than a friend of mine working now at Wizz, was surprised and disappointed why Wizz was getting help from the Hungarian government.....
Well 5 months ago he was boasting of not paying any taxes being based in Romania, and now he wants government help, you just can't make these things up.

While he just recently returned to Wizz, for the exact reason to avoid paying any tax, as the double tax treaty with Switzerland is extremely flawed.
As for the sick day, they would just a days salary from your pay for every sick day. I seem to recall it was around 111 Euros as SFO.

Of course this encourages people to work when sick.
Equally the current pay structure, Tesco Basic pay + very high sector pay, so better don't be sick or fatigue, because you are going to pay for from your own pocket big time.

Besides that, nothing of course beats the Cabin Crew or the girls of VNO, or the bars and restaurants there, specially before they go the Euros, so of course there was some positive things there.

[TBSC]

Compensation for working on off days is not even recorded as a certain amount of money but sector payment(s) which differs by position and base.
NAS FOs could indeed get 500 EUR if they'd have an airline to work for.

[truckflyer]

Compensation for working on off days is not even recorded as a certain amount of money but sector payment(s) which differs by position and base.
NAS FOs could indeed get 500 EUR if they'd have an airline to work for.
Yes those actually do still have an airline to work for.

People should value their "free time", so companies like Wizz stop exploiting air balloon heads. But I guess you already decided that you don't want to value you your free time, so continue and let them abuse you.

[matt283]

Meanwhile seems like in many bases wizz decided to made redundant cabin crew the with the oldest contracts...

[a350pilots]

"

Besides that, nothing of course beats the Cabin Crew or the girls of VNO, or the bars and restaurants there, specially before they go the Euros, so of course there was some positive things there.

Can you elaborate? How is crew life?

[truckflyer]

Can you elaborate? How is crew life?

I think nobody could complain about crew life if you did not need to commute, and you don't have any ties elsewhere. There are worse places to be based in the world than VNO ;)

And before they got the Euro, life was pretty cheap there, and in the bars they did not measure the drinks like you do in the UK, and it was not hard to meet friendly locals.

[Max Stryker]

OK, guys: I've read a few patent untruths here, that made me write this comment - and I almost always just lurk on pprune.

WZZ is far from a perfect company, and I think we all agree that the salaries aren't what they should be and that confair contracts are a part of what's wrong with aviation today. That being said, it is not the devil incarnate that some guys here are making it out to be. As far as fatigue reports go, I don't know of a single time when someone got called into the office becuse of one. I use them myself, and will regularly file three to four a year, together with calling unfit to fly, after truly challenging duties coming at the tail end of a series of difficult duty days. I was always removed from the roster for the subsequent day with no questions asked, and the only time the fatigue team actually called me is a single time that they wanted to ask if they could use my report in fatigue training.

[samca]

OK, guys: I've read a few patent untruths here, that made me write this comment - and I almost always just lurk on pprune.

WZZ is far from a perfect company, and I think we all agree that the salaries aren't what they should be and that confair contracts are a part of what's wrong with aviation today. That being said, it is not the devil incarnate that some guys here are making it out to be. As far as fatigue reports go, I don't know of a single time when someone got called into the office becuse of one. I use them myself, and will regularly file three to four a year, together with calling unfit to fly, after truly challenging duties coming at the tail end of a series of difficult duty days. I was always removed from the roster for the subsequent day with no questions asked, and the only time the fatigue team actually called me is a single time that they wanted to ask if they could use my report in fatigue training.

I agree we need to be objective here and do not deviate of the main threat. I never felt pressure from the company times that I called fatigue.

in other hand I think people is upset for the way that the company treat them at the end without reason, maybe wrong strategy by WIZZAIR or maybe correct... the time will say.

maybe the common sense it would be to take 2 months of reduction salaries and analyze the market for starting to fly in June like Ryanair did it. They would not close any door and keep their pilots ready to fly as soon as the market start to recover but they have been selfish in that way and maybe lot of pilots will find a job and never will return after the crisis finish.

time will say but for sure the strategy was completely opposite of Ryanair that always has been a mirror for WIZZ.

[truckflyer]

OK, guys: I've read a few patent untruths here, that made me write this comment - and I almost always just lurk on pprune.

WZZ is far from a perfect company, and I think we all agree that the salaries aren't what they should be and that confair contracts are a part of what's wrong with aviation today. That being said, it is not the devil incarnate that some guys here are making it out to be. As far as fatigue reports go, I don't know of a single time when someone got called into the office becuse of one. I use them myself, and will regularly file three to four a year, together with calling unfit to fly, after truly challenging duties coming at the tail end of a series of difficult duty days. I was always removed from the roster for the subsequent day with no questions asked, and the only time the fatigue team actually called me is a single time that they wanted to ask if they could use my report in fatigue training.

I would like to see the amount of fatigue reports Wizz pilots have filed, compared to other companies that have fatigue system protected and setup by the unions.
I think you will discover that the percentage of fatigue reports filed by Wizz air pilots will be very low in comparison, and the main reason for this will one or more of the following, loss of income (high sector pay), fear of management.

In all the years I was there I never saw anyone report fatigue. There is a reason for this.

[dirk85]

I would like to see the amount of fatigue reports Wizz pilots have filed, compared to other companies that have fatigue system protected and setup by the unions.
I think you will discover that the percentage of fatigue reports filed by Wizz air pilots will be very low in comparison, and the main reason for this will one or more of the following, loss of income (high sector pay), fear of management.

In all the years I was there I never saw anyone report fatigue. There is a reason for this.

You are mixing up Wizzair with Ryanair.
I have made a few fatigue reports myself, and see collegues doing the same, with no consequences whatsoever.
In Ryanair on the other end that’s a guaranteed flight to Dublin

[PilotLZ]

I agree we need to be objective here and do not deviate of the main threat. I never felt pressure from the company times that I called fatigue.

in other hand I think people is upset for the way that the company treat them at the end without reason, maybe wrong strategy by WIZZAIR or maybe correct... the time will say.

maybe the common sense it would be to take 2 months of reduction salaries and analyze the market for starting to fly in June like Ryanair did it. They would not close any door and keep their pilots ready to fly as soon as the market start to recover but they have been selfish in that way and maybe lot of pilots will find a job and never will return after the crisis finish.

time will say but for sure the strategy was completely opposite of Ryanair that always has been a mirror for WIZZ.
The majority of RYR pilots are only paid by the hour, I believe. No flying equals to no paycheck. Even when that month has been designated as contractual annual leave or when the pilot has reached the maximum hours per year at about mid-November.

Nobody knows when and how the COVID-19 havoc is going to end. Maybe some flights within the EU will be restored by July. Maybe it will be as bad as it is now until October. Maybe a fraction of the capacity will be restored for some weeks or months, only to be grounded again by a second wave in the autumn. With no end in sight, you can only keep people on any kind of salary for that long. And unpaid leave cannot go on for eternity either since in most states one cannot claim unemployment benefits while being on unpaid leave. So, as terrible as it is, what happened to everyone who lost their jobs last week wasn't exactly unexpected. We can only hope that things get sorted ASAP and the market starts recovering.

[samca]

The majority of RYR pilots are only paid by the hour, I believe. No flying equals to no paycheck. Even when that month has been designated as contractual annual leave or when the pilot has reached the maximum hours per year at about mid-November.

Nobody knows when and how the COVID-19 havoc is going to end. Maybe some flights within the EU will be restored by July. Maybe it will be as bad as it is now until October. Maybe a fraction of the capacity will be restored for some weeks or months, only to be grounded again by a second wave in the autumn. With no end in sight, you can only keep people on any kind of salary for that long. And unpaid leave cannot go on for eternity either since in most states one cannot claim unemployment benefits while being on unpaid leave. So, as terrible as it is, what happened to everyone who lost their jobs last week wasn't exactly unexpected. We can only hope that things get sorted ASAP and the market starts recovering.
Ryanair local pilots have a basic salary. Exactly the same that in Wizzair

[FlexToga]

Gyus, let's not spread misinformation here.
First of all - the bonus for flying from OFF is currently around 60/100/200 EUR for FO/SFO/CPT respectively. So 150EUR for flying from off is nothing special.
Second - if you are on local contract, you get all the sick pays etc. as per the local law. So don't blame the company, blame the local NHS. If you're on Confair, YOU are responsible for paying taxes, health insurance etc. wherever you seem appropriate. So again, if you don't get a proper sick pay, blame either your NHS wherever you're paying taxes, or blame yourself for dodging payments. Also nobody forces anybody to go on Confair, you can always go local and get proper health insurance.

I'm not saying Wizz is perfect, far from it - but at least please get the facts straight.

Those figures you mention are before taxes...in the best scenario you be discounted around 40% in the worst up to 60%. Is just a miserable figure what is left after that. In local contract you DON’T get all sick leaves payed. I dont know in which country are you assigned but in Romania if you get sick on weekends the company directly doesn’t pay you, plus if you get sick in week days you need to proof through a really complex procedure that you were sick, Dr. Certificate + conversion by the health house + wait for 2 weeks for that conversion + give to the BC + BC signature + send to payroll department...a nightmare.( I am in a base, with two airplanes in the north of the country ) My BC is well known for not sending those reports to the company because he is never in the office but playing golf in stead off. The same BC was Intimidating with calls and meetings in the office to pilots who called fatigued. So I can confirm that in a small base with 2-3 airplanes when people is calling fatigue it means to be on trouble.

[truckflyer]

Just to show why me and many have very little sympathy for the company.
A mate of mine in a base in Poland, who had been working there for a few years, suddenly his wife had a stroke, and was rushed to hospital as she was hanging on to her life.
The lack of sympathy shown by the BC and the company, was less than impressive. While he was in the ICU with his wife, they questioned if this situation was real or not, BC requesting him to come into the base with documentation, while he needed to be with his wives side, as this was obviously more important for normal people, but not for some at Wizz.

As he told me, the lazy BC could have taken the time to come to the hospital, and than he would have been able to see for himself what was going on. He was forced to use his leave days, and was being pressurized to come back to work ASP, not much compassion.

[Newcomer2]

Those figures you mention are before taxes...in the best scenario you be discounted around 40% in the worst up to 60%.

Wrong. You forgot to take into account the country multiplier for the local contracts. So in the end you would only lose around 13%

[FlexToga]

Wrong. You forgot to take into account the country multiplier for the local contracts. So in the end you would only lose around 13%
I didnt forget to take into account the country multiplayer. The country multiplayer comes before taxes: In Romania the taxes to be deducted are fix to a 35% plus a Swiss taxation in my case of 20%. From 150 euros you are finally getting 100 miserable euros to fly for a day off. If that is a good deal for you, congratulations to fly cheap.

[FlexToga]

Just to show why me and many have very little sympathy for the company.
A mate of mine in a base in Poland, who had been working there for a few years, suddenly his wife had a stroke, and was rushed to hospital as she was hanging on to her life.
The lack of sympathy shown by the BC and the company, was less than impressive. While he was in the ICU with his wife, they questioned if this situation was real or not, BC requesting him to come into the base with documentation, while he needed to be with his wives side, as this was obviously more important for normal people, but not for some at Wizz.

As he told me, the lazy BC could have taken the time to come to the hospital, and than he would have been able to see for himself what was going on. He was forced to use his leave days, and was being pressurized to come back to work ASP, not much compassion.

That BC is just a miserable person. But hey!, no surprise for the treatment received. A pilot who needed to go for Sim positioning from his base to Uk, WZZ forgot to book his ticket. OCC and logistics didn't help, so he ended up calling to BC to try to find a solution. The BC screamed at him badly menacing at him with a negative record affecting his upgrade if he was not buying his own ticket to go to the sim. The poor guy at the end needed to buy a 500 euros ticket. The company never reimbursed the money to him.

[Newcomer2]

I didnt forget to take into account the country multiplayer. The country multiplayer comes before taxes: In Romania the taxes to be deducted are fix to a 35% plus a Swiss taxation in my case of 20%. From 150 euros you are finally getting 100 miserable euros to fly for a day off. If that is a good deal for you, congratulations to fly cheap.

If you can show me where I said it was good money, be my guest.
But I just don't like false information to be spread by people who obviously have something personal against the company. If you're paying 20% of swiss taxes on top of the 35% in Romania, it means you're a Captain (single with no kids), not an FO or SFO who will pay maximum around 5% of swiss taxes. Why do you take the day off rate for SFOs then?
As for your congratulations to fly cheap, you fly/flew for Wizz, so you are definitely not in the position to say anything.

[FlexToga]

If you can show me where I said it was good money, be my guest.
But I just don't like false information to be spread by people who obviously have something personal against the company. If you're paying 20% of swiss taxes on top of the 35% in Romania, it means you're a Captain (single with no kids), not an FO or SFO who will pay maximum around 5% of swiss taxes. Why do you take the day off rate for SFOs then?
As for your congratulations to fly cheap, you fly/flew for Wizz, so you are definitely not in the position to say anything.



You are trying to show how great is the payment for a day off, its giving the impression at least of that. False information where? I explained properly how you get the numbers. I don´t have anything against the company, I am just explaining how it is and how they work. If what we write is not pleasant is not because of us, it's because of the company itself. Secondly, you are writing as an example the compensation of an F/O or SFO to fly in a day off, you are kidding right?...:confused: ..their salaries are at the same level of someone working for TESCO as supermarket cashier or lower...if you don't take into account that they need to pay back an usurer amount of money for their type ratings. Is it false as well? is it something against the airline? No, those are facts. I would feel ashamed to put as an example the amount of money they get, mentioning they just get discounted just a 5%, otherwise they would not even be able to pay their rentals and bills ( some of them they were eating everyday the awful food given in the airplane, even taking them at home because they were simply short, when those meals have been rolling around the airplane for more than 8 hours at room at 25 degrees).Is it false as well? I would love to hear your answers regarding the information above. I worked in WZZ and luckily for very short time some years ago meanwhile I was finding something else, like everyone else who was not Hungarian, Polish or Romanian, and yes I am in the position to say anything regarding WZZ because those are the facts about how they treat their employees. By the way I never flew in a day off, as my phone for the airline was switched off in my non-duty days.

[dirk85]

Just to show why me and many have very little sympathy for the company.
A mate of mine in a base in Poland, who had been working there for a few years, suddenly his wife had a stroke, and was rushed to hospital as she was hanging on to her life.
The lack of sympathy shown by the BC and the company, was less than impressive. While he was in the ICU with his wife, they questioned if this situation was real or not, BC requesting him to come into the base with documentation, while he needed to be with his wives side, as this was obviously more important for normal people, but not for some at Wizz.

As he told me, the lazy BC could have taken the time to come to the hospital, and than he would have been able to see for himself what was going on. He was forced to use his leave days, and was being pressurized to come back to work ASP, not much compassion.

That is down to the individual BC.
I could tell you 5 stories of empathy and good treatment for every bad story you mention, but it would be a waste of time.

There are bad apples and bad managers in every company, not just Wizzair.

I have nothing but good things to say about the BC I had the chance to meet in Wizzair.

[BluSdUp]

You say: " Ryanair local pilots have a basic salary ,"
Not true!
There is still plenty of Contractors around.

Regards
Cpt B

[PilotLZ]

Some rumours suggest that London Luton, Timisoara and Vienna are about to partially reopen on May 1st. Couldn't find a confirmation of this on the Wizz air website though. Is it true or just wishful thinking?

[iandy912i]

Some rumours suggest that London Luton, Timisoara and Vienna are about to partially reopen on May 1st. Couldn't find a confirmation of this on the Wizz air website though. Is it true or just wishful thinking?

have just got a push notification from their app, so it should be truth
but i've heard somewhere that Luton will be temporarily closed for some time and everything will be moved to Gatwick or smth

[FlightDetent]

someone working for TESCO as supermarket cashier or lower... Reality check, to call spade a spade. The highest HDP per capita in CEE is in Prague, Czechia. Last time I passed around one of the LIDL there, a proud wall-sized advertisement announced for store staff. 35 hr week, no night stops or red-eyes.

1040 EUR gross.

795 net.

In the third year of service.

[samca]

You say: " Ryanair local pilots have a basic salary ,"
Not true!
There is still plenty of Contractors around.

Regards
Cpt B

Cpt B. I know that there is contractors pilots in RYR. And the main difference is that they don’t have base salary in comparasion with Irish contract pilots working in their network. All of pilots under Irish contract have base salary.

However in WIZZ all the contractors have base salary, that’s why in WIZZ most of the pilots fired of this 265 pilots has been CONFAIR. They don’t have to pay anything and they don’t have to deal with the jurisdiction of their countries. Around 142 out of 265 pilots fired has been CONFAIR contract (floating pilots or fix based). That’s why these pilots has been easy to fire first and then the rest with local contracts.

Varadi said several times “Cash is King”. Their priority is the Company and the liquity. And we have all to respect the management decitions. It is their company. And for the rest of people that still there they cannot complain. Nobody is pushing them, everybody decide about his life and if you think you are a slave, don’t work for them instead of complaining. Business is business for them, they left very clear this time.

In the other hand we have if it has been ethic or not to fire 20% of your employees having a liquity of 1.6B, aircraft orders and a new company AOC in Abu Dhabi... but that is another history. And again we all must respect their decition or strategy even if we are not balanced regarding ethic part. Every human is different, every human has been educated different, and every person has different values on life.

[CEJM]

have just got a push notification from their app, so it should be truth
but i've heard somewhere that Luton will be temporarily closed for some time and everything will be moved to Gatwick or smth


LTN does not accept passenger flights until 01/05/2020 0500z, opens in time again for the first Wizz air flights operated by Wizz UK.

[FlexToga]

Reality check, to call spade a spade. The highest HDP per capita in CEE is in Prague, Czechia. Last time I passed around one of the LIDL there, a proud wall-sized advertisement announced for store staff. 35 hr week, no night stops or red-eyes.

1040 EUR gross.

795 net.

In the third year of service.

I am talking about TESCO UK, but if you want to compare it with Eastern European levels, OK.

[PilotLZ]

Yesterday's interview with Joszef Varadi mentions a speed-up in the Wizz air Abu Dhabi project, with commencement of operations in Q3 2020. So, maybe good news for some of the most severely affected crews?

[TBSC]

Yesterday's interview with Joszef Varadi mentions a speed-up in the Wizz air Abu Dhabi project, with commencement of operations in Q3 2020. So, maybe good news for some of the most severely affected crews?
From Q2 to Q3? Not quite a speed up.

[truckflyer]

Cpt B. I know that there is contractors pilots in RYR. And the main difference is that they don’t have base salary in comparasion with Irish contract pilots working in their network. All of pilots under Irish contract have base salary.

However in WIZZ all the contractors have base salary, that’s why in WIZZ most of the pilots fired of this 265 pilots has been CONFAIR. They don’t have to pay anything and they don’t have to deal with the jurisdiction of their countries. Around 142 out of 265 pilots fired has been CONFAIR contract (floating pilots or fix based). That’s why these pilots has been easy to fire first and then the rest with local contracts.

Varadi said several times “Cash is King”. Their priority is the Company and the liquity. And we have all to respect the management decitions. It is their company. And for the rest of people that still there they cannot complain. Nobody is pushing them, everybody decide about his life and if you think you are a slave, don’t work for them instead of complaining. Business is business for them, they left very clear this time.

In the other hand we have if it has been ethic or not to fire 20% of your employees having a liquity of 1.6B, aircraft orders and a new company AOC in Abu Dhabi... but that is another history. And again we all must respect their decition or strategy even if we are not balanced regarding ethic part. Every human is different, every human has been educated different, and every person has different values on life.

Unless the Confair contracts have changed a lot over the years, I would say that fired pilots might have some legal remedy against Wizz based on 2 facts that was confirmed with ECA and the Swiss Pilot union some years ago.
That is the following:

1. The Confair contract that time stated the following:
Confair is Dutch company, and the contract should be governed according to Belgian law in a Swiss court of Geneva. This contract states that you are self employed, and are responsible to pay all your taxes etc yourself, nothing to do with the company.

2. Company Wizz Air provides a Swiss tax certificate, which clearly states that the Pilots are employed directly by Wizz Air. It's written on the tax certificate.

I had both documents analysed by the Swiss Pilots Unions legal team and ECA, and they confirmed according the documents presented it could be assumed the pilot was employed by Wizz Air, and not Confair, solely based on the Swiss tax document, which is an official document.

So before anyone jumps up and says I am talking about things I don't know, I still have the documents / emails provided by the Swiss Pilot union.

They might have changed all that nonsense of Dutch, Belgian and Swiss Geneva court, this does not change the fact that if you have a Swiss tax certificate you are employed directly by Wizz, despite these nonsense Confair contracts floating around.

You can't one hand be told that you need to sort out your own taxes, and than on the other hand get a Swiss tax certificate provided by Wizz Air, without that making a legally binding agreement that Wizz is your legal employee.

[PilotLZ]

From Q2 to Q3? Not quite a speed up.
https://aeronewsglobal.com/bucharest-budapest-and-sofia-wizz-airs-first-routes-from-abu-dhabi/
Summer 2020, as opposed to the original plan of autumn 2020. However, it's another matter whether any travel between EU and non-EU states will be allowed by that time. Or whether there will be enough demand, especially if a 14-day quarantine is mandated on both ends.

[BarryMG]

Buzz just followed up today with redundancies and salary cuts across CEE...

[iandy912i]

Buzz just followed up today with redundancies and salary cuts across CEE...


Where is this info coming from? Nothing was told to the employees today

[RexBanner]

https://aeronewsglobal.com/bucharest-budapest-and-sofia-wizz-airs-first-routes-from-abu-dhabi/
Summer 2020, as opposed to the original plan of autumn 2020. However, it's another matter whether any travel between EU and non-EU states will be allowed by that time. Or whether there will be enough demand, especially if a 14-day quarantine is mandated on both ends.

There is no scenario in which governments open borders but then also mandate a 14 day quarantine period. It would make the former intention (ie restarting tourism and business) utterly unachievable and pointless.

[BarryMG]

Where is this info coming from? Nothing was told to the employees today
From the letter sent to all Buzz pilots by Warsaw Aviation.

[booze]

Back to Wizzair: apparently a second round of retrenchment is inevitable, according to some internal rumors. Any thoughts?

[PilotLZ]

In an article by the European cockpit association (subject of the thread started by Samca) there's the following statement:

Wizz Air, another airline making extensive use of atypical employment, announced it was cutting almost 20% of its workforce and remaining frontline staff take a 14% pay cut – whilst its CEO boasts about the comfortable cash reserves of his airline. In a memo to crew, Wizz Air presents its criteria for laying off pilots such as “willingness to work on days off”, “absence history” and “cooperation with the company”.

Was such a memo indeed sent to the crews? Or is it another rumour circulated by the media?

[jadrolinija]

In an article by the European cockpit association (subject of the thread started by Samca) there's the following statement:

Wizz Air, another airline making extensive use of atypical employment, announced it was cutting almost 20% of its workforce and remaining frontline staff take a 14% pay cut – whilst its CEO boasts about the comfortable cash reserves of his airline. In a memo to crew, Wizz Air presents its criteria for laying off pilots such as “willingness to work on days off”, “absence history” and “cooperation with the company”.

Was such a memo indeed sent to the crews? Or is it another rumour circulated by the media?

It was supposed to be like that for WIZZ UK... Other bases have different criteria like base captains decision, or grading system according to performance, years in Wizz and age.

[FlightDetent]

So everywhere else it is mostly ok. Contractors first, then various criteria on top route-reduction principle bearing in mind that pure LIFO is illegal.

Meanwhile in Blighty the 18th century slavery capitalism prevails? Please tell us it isn't so.

[jadrolinija]

Mostly ok? Maybe. Depends if you are cadet who recently joined Wizzair and you were lucky to keep your job comparing to other FO who is working for 4-5 years in Wizz and is kicked out based on base captain opinion or irrelevant criteria.

As I know people who were company minded and who commited part of their life to wizz, just to be kicked out after 6+ years of service and others who were showing bad performance kept, I can't say this way of layoffs where fair neither...

[FlightDetent]

The various young guns above are understandably upset, I would feel no different in their shoes. Reality is sometimes a pill too hard to swallow and even if you manage without throwing up, now and then life actually does treat you unfair undeservedly.

I think these are actual facts:
The only fair method of choosing who to let go is a random pick.
LIFO as the sole criterion is illegal.
The beancounters are responsible to the owners for the future well-being of the company, in line with the owner's wishes.

If a hypothetical base captain's choice is 50% professional and 50% personal vendetta, you'd still get half of the weakest links out of the company. I am genuinely hoping to hear about any other methods that actually do exist within the present-day EU legal framework which would produce better results.

[jadrolinija]

Very nicely said... It would be nice to explain it to guys who spent 13+ years in Wizz to be fired at the end while others who came recently are still there. Unfortunately, that's what you get when you have no seniority in airline... More you serve, more stable you should feel. Here it's not a case...

​​​

[FlightDetent]

I'm genuinely sorry for how they feel and the strain on the families, that it hurts less the second time around is no consolation of course. Given your location surely you've seen people pulling through their third and even fourth lap perhaps.

Seriously, the important thing is to keep one's sanity and emotional health. Quite tricky to do so since the broken bits inside do not manifest through physical pain. Namaste.

[eiffel]

It's a very strong message from management to the other employees who have kept their jobs….
" Do not call sick (for whatever genuine reasons), systematically accept to work on your days off if requested, and of course do not dare asking for any social rights. WARNING! YOU ARE NEXT ON LINE! IN A TOTAL RANDOM ORDER! "
Brutal post-communist modern slavery.

[jadrolinija]

I'm genuinely sorry for how they feel and the strain on the families, that it hurts less the second time around is no consolation of course. Given your location surely you've seen people pulling through their third and even fourth lap perhaps.

Seriously, the important thing is to keep one's sanity and emotional health. Quite tricky to do so since the broken bits inside do not manifest through physical pain. Namaste.

That's true... Thank you for kind words.

[733driver]

I think these are actual facts:
The only fair method of choosing who to let go is a random pick.
LIFO as the sole criterion is illegal.


Last time I checked this was not the case. LIFO is not illegal. It can be if it is discriminatory. That may be the case but doesn't have to be. LIFO can also be adjusted by correction factors such as for attendance, performance, disciplinary records etc to make it court-proof. It also depends on the jurisdiction, of course. But the bottom line is that a LIFO-based policy can be legal.

[FlightDetent]

Perhaps we are talking a different scope. Within a single base, within a single type, within a single working post (as spelled-out in the emplyment contract) it surely can be legal, especially as long as it is not listed as a reason inside the redundancy notice. The quoted text above speaks of a different arrangement.

In a typical CE jurisdiction /Wizz ops area/, a forced redundancy of an employee with full status is only possible if the company manages to tick all the relevant boxes of the Labour Law. No box for LIFO, let alone one that would over-rule the others. The employer needs to have truthful reasons, all of the necessary ones, to fire / furlough / lay-off any single individual.

Mileage may vary, last time our ALPA squad did check it was in a court house in the region, during forced layoffs to 50% of pilot and CC workforce. No matter the signed CLA.

Example from the minefield: In case you employed someone within 8 months for a job position from which a worker had been let go under the redundancy clause, that redundancy becomes illegal and full pay and position is re-instated. This pretty much invalidates any left-to-right movement while letting F/Os go. Trust me, people who were being kicked out with 120 PIC hours over their FO ex-brethren 6 years junior to them left no stone unturned.

[squarecrow]

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/04/28/wizz-air-gets-a-300-million-uk-government-bailout/

[PilotLZ]

I do remain highly optimistic of the future of Wizz air. Even with the market shrinking for a while, there will still be useful opportunities left over from weaker carriers who could no longer support themselves. And if you have cash and aircraft orders at that time - that's the chance to take your game to a new level. What is crisis and devastation for one is always an opportunity for someone else.