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hatton
13th Apr 2020, 11:05
Hi,
Really interested in history of routes served by Inter European Airways from 1987-93. Any info appreciated.

Thank you.

Phileas Fogg
13th Apr 2020, 11:59
Hi,
Really interested in history of routes served by Inter European Airways from 1987-93. Any info appreciated.

Thank you.

Much the same bucket & spade holiday stuff, owned by a Cypriot family IEA (Aspro Holidays) was particularly big in Cyprus, a B757 damp-leased to Air Aruba for a period until Air Aruba stopped paying the bills and a couple of B737's in Australia for a season.




https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x712/iea_36fe8f472eb5c3c1aab876ea3e1a5f1561a217d9.jpg

hatton
13th Apr 2020, 12:24
Any ideas which Greek islands they flew to and from where in the UK?

Phileas Fogg
13th Apr 2020, 12:34
Any ideas which Greek islands they flew to and from where in the UK?

From memory RHO, HER, KGS, CFU, ZTH, EFL, ATH, SKG, Skiathos, Preveza, Khios ... UK airports of CWL, BRS, BFS, MAN, LGW, LTN, NCL, EMA, BOH, GLA and probably others that I have forgotten about, alas can't be specific about point to point routes

hatton
13th Apr 2020, 13:01
Brilliant. Thank you for the info👍

Phileas Fogg
13th Apr 2020, 14:04
Brilliant. Thank you for the info👍

Kalamati was another Greek destination

hatton
13th Apr 2020, 14:27
I think IEA did Larnaca from a lot of Uk Airports. At least once a fortnight if old airport timetable memory serves me correctly.

DanAir89
13th Apr 2020, 14:30
I think IEA did Larnaca from a lot of Uk Airports. At least once a fortnight if old airport timetable memory serves me correctly.

I think that you are right. By 92 they had a 757 based in Cyprus and I think that it swapped in Newcastle each week with the based aircraft there. There was something funny like it arrived from PFO but the NCL based aircraft left for LCA so it split its week between the two Cypriot airports but canít remember the exact details.

Phileas Fogg
13th Apr 2020, 14:39
I think that you are right. By 92 they had a 757 based in Cyprus and I think that it swapped in Newcastle each week with the based aircraft there. There was something funny like it arrived from PFO but the NCL based aircraft left for LCA so it split its week between the two Cypriot airports but canít remember the exact details.

They didn't have any a/c or crew based in Cyprus, all aircraft were UK based with crews night stopping for a night or few in LCA or PFO

hatton
13th Apr 2020, 14:41
I think my old 93 timetable had IEA basing 757s at Belfast and Manchester. 737-300s were doing LCA once a fortnight from places such as Bournemouth, Exeter, Humberside and Norwich.

DanAir89
13th Apr 2020, 14:46
They didn't have any a/c or crew based in Cyprus, all aircraft were UK based with crews night stopping for a night or few in LCA or PFO

Ok but why would crews night stop in Cyprus then? Surely they would fly from/to the uk in the same day? However Iím pretty sure an aircraft was effectively based in Cyprus to serve uk airports including those from which IEA didnít have a base.

perhaps flightrider who is contributing to the Orion A300 thread could check the Airport Timetables Uk book for 1992 to verify🤗

Phileas Fogg
13th Apr 2020, 15:16
Ok but why would crews night stop in Cyprus then? Surely they would fly from/to the uk in the same day? However Iím pretty sure an aircraft was effectively based in Cyprus to serve uk airports including those from which IEA didnít have a base.

perhaps flightrider who is contributing to the Orion A300 thread could check the Airport Timetables Uk book for 1992 to verify🤗


Flight time limitations, let's say an evening departure from UK, allowing for a 1hr report time, around 10 block hours hrs round trip, an hour on the ground in Cyprus, that's 12 hours FDP when the crew can only operate 11.25 hours, even sociable hour departures, pick up a slot delay or two and the crew go out of hours, as I posted prwviously IEA/Aspro were big in Cyprus so to ensure around the clock flexibility why not have crews overnighting in Cyprus rather than in hotels in LTN, NCL, EMA etc. etc. etc?

Wig Wag
13th Apr 2020, 16:50
IEA! Those were the fun days.

They were the master of the 'W' pattern where you started, or ended, with a taxi journey. Report Cardiff, taxi Manston, operate Manston - Larnaca, slip three days, Larnaca - Cardiff. Many UK regional airports in the logbook. Lots of 'night Larnaca' returns, loads of positioning flights the shortest being Bristol - Cardiff which took about 7 minutes.

Long duty days but quality time down route and great crews. All very practical stuff and you were left to get on with it.

Downside was the Europa Hotel during the troubles . . .

Good fun whilst it lasted, great characters to fly with and 'interesting' people to work for.

DanAir89
13th Apr 2020, 16:52
Flight time limitations, let's say an evening departure from UK, allowing for a 1hr report time, around 10 block hours hrs round trip, an hour on the ground in Cyprus, that's 12 hours FDP when the crew can only operate 11.25 hours, even sociable hour departures, pick up a slot delay or two and the crew go out of hours, as I posted prwviously IEA/Aspro were big in Cyprus so to ensure around the clock flexibility why not have crews overnighting in Cyprus rather than in hotels in LTN, NCL, EMA etc. etc. etc?

This is quite a random conversation now but Iíve flown to Cyprus loads from the uk and was unaware that the crew changed. Particularly for EasyJet and Jet2 this would seem an expensive operation.

I still think that an IEA 757 left NCL on a Thursday morning in 1992 at least for one of LCA or PFO it didnít return so therefore went to another Uk location operating flights to/from cyprus to the U.K. a few hours later on a Thursday morning the previously Cyprus based 757 arrived in Ncl from the other Cyprus airport and picked up the ncl based programme. The Cyprus based 757 at some other point during week operated to the uk From either lca or pfo but returned to the other. Thereby meaning that aspro had a full programme for one aircraft operating between Cyprus and the U.K. this being the point that we do agree on that Cyprus was important to aspro and IEA fed its passengers from the U.K.!

LS737
13th Apr 2020, 18:01
This is quite a random conversation now but Iíve flown to Cyprus loads from the uk and was unaware that the crew changed. Particularly for EasyJet and Jet2 this would seem an expensive operation.

I still think that an IEA 757 left NCL on a Thursday morning in 1992 at least for one of LCA or PFO it didnít return so therefore went to another Uk location operating flights to/from cyprus to the U.K. a few hours later on a Thursday morning the previously Cyprus based 757 arrived in Ncl from the other Cyprus airport and picked up the ncl based programme. The Cyprus based 757 at some other point during week operated to the uk From either lca or pfo but returned to the other. Thereby meaning that aspro had a full programme for one aircraft operating between Cyprus and the U.K. this being the point that we do agree on that Cyprus was important to aspro and IEA fed its passengers from the U.K.!

Jet2 operate to Cyprus using a single crew set (i.e. no swaps down route) - also no overnights, unless something goes tech

hatton
13th Apr 2020, 20:11
According to my memory of the 93 timetable, IEA had a 757 each at BFS and Man, an A320 each at Bristol and Cardiff, and one 737 at Man and NCL; another doing LCA on W patterns that covered just about every regional airport in the UK. A further 737 was stored, but this was a series 400 that didnít really fit with the rest of the fleet.

Mooncrest
13th Apr 2020, 20:50
Inter European operated a lot of flights to and from Leeds Bradford using the 733, 757 and A320. Additionally, IEA had a base at LBA, at least for the summer of 1993, with a single 733. It was often on the deck at the same time as the Sunseeker-Air Foyle 733.

Incidentally, I believe Inter European Airways was the original planned name for Air Europe.

Phileas Fogg
14th Apr 2020, 00:16
This is quite a random conversation now but I’ve flown to Cyprus loads from the uk and was unaware that the crew changed. Particularly for EasyJet and Jet2 this would seem an expensive operation.

I still think that an IEA 757 left NCL on a Thursday morning in 1992 at least for one of LCA or PFO it didn’t return so therefore went to another Uk location operating flights to/from cyprus to the U.K. a few hours later on a Thursday morning the previously Cyprus based 757 arrived in Ncl from the other Cyprus airport and picked up the ncl based programme. The Cyprus based 757 at some other point during week operated to the uk From either lca or pfo but returned to the other. Thereby meaning that aspro had a full programme for one aircraft operating between Cyprus and the U.K. this being the point that we do agree on that Cyprus was important to aspro and IEA fed its passengers from the U.K.!

I didn't suggest that it is necessary to slip crews in Cyprus nor that other operators do so.

At the optimum (morning) time of day, on 2 sectors, a crew can operate a FDP of 13.25 hours, a crew reporting at 1300 hours or after is down to 12.25 hours and as early evening approaches 11.25 hours so round-trip crewed flights can only get there and back if daytime departures from UK.

As has been suggested Aspro/IEA were a major tour operation in Cyprus, it was a major destination and slipping crews gave them the flexibility to operate any time day or night and to pick up delays along the way, furthermore another poster has mentioned the positioning, I can recall personally travelling MAN/NCL/LCA, were the crew operating round trip would have needed to slip crews in NCL, ditto for MAN/LTN/LCA, would have needed to slip crews in LTN, another duty was to position CWL/GLA in a light a/c to go straight in to operating a middle of the night GLA/LCA, it was not just financially beneficial but offered greater flexibility to slip crews in Cyprus.

And if a crew operates 10 block hours in a day, and they can operate 900 block hours in a year, how many days a year can they operate!

unitedabx
14th Apr 2020, 06:06
Hi,
Really interested in history of routes served by Inter European Airways from 1987-93. Any info appreciated.

Thank you.
No mention yet of the BAC1-11 aircraft that started out of Cardiff. Or was it a DC9/MD80 ?
I think initially BAC1-11.

hatton
14th Apr 2020, 06:18
No mention yet of the BAC1-11 aircraft that started out of Cardiff. Or was it a DC9/MD80 ?
I think initially BAC1-11.
Your thinking of Airways Cymru.

DanAir89
14th Apr 2020, 06:20
No mention yet of the BAC1-11 aircraft that started out of Cardiff. Or was it a DC9/MD80 ?
I think initially BAC1-11.
airways international cymru bac 1-11, paramount md83 perhaps?

iea actually started in 1987 with one 737-200 when the planned 2 x 737-300 fell through.

Phileas Fogg
14th Apr 2020, 06:43
airways international cymru bac 1-11, paramount md83 perhaps?

iea actually started in 1987 with one 737-200 when the planned 2 x 737-300 fell through.

Following the demise of Laker Airways a 1-11 operation, Air Manchester, popped up but only for one season, meanwhile some ex-Laker management were involved in developing another 1-11 operation, a Castle Air based at EMA, around the time that was deemed never to start Sir Freddie put the group in contact with a Tony Clemo in Cardiff, Red Dragon Travel I, who had aspirations to become an airline entrepreneur, Air Cymru subsequently set-up and operated for a few years, going to a degree B737, before folding in, I think, 1988 before Amber Air started up with a single B737 for not so long before being bought out by Paramount Airways of Bristol, I believe, to enable Paramount to go B737 rather than stuck with them only able to operate MD products ... Tony Clemo subsequently served a prison sentence for tax evasion.

IEA was totally separate, Aspro Holidays was started from a corner grocer's shop in Cardiff and, as already mentioned, developed their in-house airline IEA in 1987, a single B737-200 for a summer only 1987 before going 2 x B737-300 for 1988 and it went from there.

rog747
14th Apr 2020, 09:41
As PF says -
IEA was totally separate, Aspro Holidays (owned by a Greek Cypriot family - Asprou) was started from a corner grocer's shop in Cardiff and, as already mentioned, developed their in-house airline IEA in 1987, a single B737-200 for a summer only 1987 before going 2 x B737-300 for 1988 and it went from there - with 737-400, 757-200 and A320.

We handled them at LGW - great outfit and lovely crews - Often went down route with them for the day out in case of any issues that may come up to lend a hand.

Airtours International bought Aspro Hols and IEA morphed into AIH.

Stationair8
14th Apr 2020, 09:45
Inter European B737’s spent time in Australia during late 1989 and early 1990, while the Ansett and Australian airline fleets due to the domestic pilots dispute.

Phileas Fogg
14th Apr 2020, 10:09
Inter European B737’s spent time in Australia during late 1989 and early 1990, while the Ansett and Australian airline fleets due to the domestic pilots dispute.

Yes, two out of the fleet of four B737's were damped leased to Australian Airlines, I occupied some 4 months or longer in Oz ground-managing the operation.

Strumble Head
14th Apr 2020, 10:13
IEA! Those were the fun days.

They were the master of the 'W' pattern where you started, or ended, with a taxi journey. Report Cardiff, taxi Manston, operate Manston - Larnaca, slip three days, Larnaca - Cardiff. Many UK regional airports in the logbook. Lots of 'night Larnaca' returns, loads of positioning flights the shortest being Bristol - Cardiff which took about 7 minutes.

Long duty days but quality time down route and great crews. All very practical stuff and you were left to get on with it.

Downside was the Europa Hotel during the troubles . . .

Good fun whilst it lasted, great characters to fly with and 'interesting' people to work for.

Ah, proper aviation ... Bristol-Cardiff 7 mins? Fond memories of BOAC having to operate a Bahrain-Dhahran leg back in the day. Urban myth had it that there was an unofficial sweep each month amongst the VC-10 crews.
I believe I was on the winning flight one month (only as SLF) with a time of 12 minutes. But they did have to raise the undercarriage after departing BAH. Probably covered elsewhere in the annals of PPRuNe.

Hamrah
14th Apr 2020, 19:17
I joined IEA when they started up in 1987. We started with a737- 200. We flew mostly to Cyprus from Cardiff and Bristol along with some Spanish routes. At the of the Summer , the Airline stopped flying and restarted the following with two 737- 300ís. I was promoted to Captain the following spring. Thereafter the fleet increased with two A320 and a757. There are a lot of photos online. It was a great family company. Iím still in touch with most of the earliest pilots and crew.

hatton
14th Apr 2020, 19:54
I joined IEA when they started up in 1987. We started with a737- 200. We flew mostly to Cyprus from Cardiff and Bristol along with some Spanish routes. At the of the Summer , the Airline stopped flying and restarted the following with two 737- 300ís. I was promoted to Captain the following spring. Thereafter the fleet increased with two A320 and a757. There are a lot of photos online. It was a great family company. Iím still in touch with most of the earliest pilots and crew.
Thatís brilliant. Did you know Alan Dix? Did you stay on the 737 or go onto 757 or A320?

hatton
14th Apr 2020, 20:48
Thatís brilliant. Did you know Alan Dix? Did you stay on the 737 or go onto 757 or A320?
Sorry, just realised you are a certain pilot who made an excellent video on the Go 737, and you have flown all the aircraft I have mentioned. You share the same name as an airport on an Island in the Med! Capt Mahon.

Phileas Fogg
15th Apr 2020, 01:07
As PF says -
IEA was totally separate, Aspro Holidays (owned by a Greek Cypriot family - Asprou) was started from a corner grocer's shop in Cardiff and, as already mentioned, developed their in-house airline IEA in 1987, a single B737-200 for a summer only 1987 before going 2 x B737-300 for 1988 and it went from there - with 737-400, 757-200 and A320..

Not forgetting VH-TAX, pictured here at BRS


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x770/aa_6bb75ab30a12b874f3e7b8d6e0bbc0585f7b7e48.jpg

rog747
15th Apr 2020, 03:58
IEA was possibly one of the last true UK Independent's to enter the package holiday airline business in 1987.
IEA was bought by Airtours/AIH in 1993, who in turn merged with Thomas Cook - all now gone.

Orion, Air Europe, BIA were all gone by 1991, Dan Air followed soon after.
Sabre Airways started operations in 1994 and in 2000 was bought by the Cyprus owned Libra Priceright Holidays Group, seeing a name change to Excel Airways.

Some UK holiday airline trivia -
Britannia Airways was the first airline in Europe to get the 737-200 1968
Monarch Airlines was the first airline in Europe to get the 757 1983
Orion Airways took the 737th 737 1981, and also was the first airline in Europe to get the 737-300 1985
Air UK Leisure was the first airline in Europe to get the 737-400 1988
Sabre Airways was the first airline in Europe to get the 737-800 1998
Excalibur Airways was the first UK charter airline to get the A320 1992

pamann
15th Apr 2020, 07:58
IIRC they also operated W patterns out of Manston Kent to Palma and Heraklion (as well as Larnaca already mentioned) in summer 92/3. Would be great if someone did have a timetable they could publish on here?

Definitely some interesting routes back then.
Loved their livery too. Was certainly bold and stood out from the crowd back in the early 90ís.

Just looked on Manstonís Wiki page and itís all on there.

old,not bold
15th Apr 2020, 16:30
UK airports of CWL, BRS, BFS, MAN, LGW, LTN, NCL, EMA, BOH, GLA and probably others that I have forgotten about,

We went to see the Asprou brothers when they first got going as a tour operator (Aspro) to persuade them that Exeter Airport presented a unique opportunity to get ahead of the competition.

They agreed and set up some of their early packages from Exeter. I cannot recall which airline they used, or what the rotation was, or the frequency.........

But I do remember they were delightful to deal with, and infused the whole operation with their enthusiasm and courtesy, which was noticed and appreciated by their customers.

Flightmech
15th Apr 2020, 17:24
IIRC they also operated W patterns out of Manston Kent to Palma and Heraklion (as well as Larnaca already mentioned) in summer 92/3. Would be great if someone did have a timetable they could publish on here?

Definitely some interesting routes back then.
Loved their livery too. Was certainly bold and stood out from the crowd back in the early 90ís.

Just looked on Manstonís Wiki page and itís all on there.

They did indeed. I drove down to Manston from STN once to take a look at an IEA 737 where the TE flaps by-passed on approach. Was a repetitive discrepancy. Found a #6 flap screw jack gearbox dry. Serviced it and off it went!

unitedabx
18th Apr 2020, 07:36
No mention yet of the BAC1-11 aircraft that started out of Cardiff. Or was it a DC9/MD80 ?
I think initially BAC1-11.
Sorry BAC1-11 ops was AirBelfast and MD80 was Paramount

Phileas Fogg
20th Apr 2020, 00:50
Sorry BAC1-11 ops was AirBelfast and MD80 was Paramount

Air Belfast was actually AB Airlines previously known as Air Bristol, yes Paramount of Bristol operated MD83's which would regularly pop in to CWL for a fuel stop en-route from BRS to the the Canaries.

Meanwhile back at Inter European Airways:


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x683/g_oiea_9486e9cc7ffe9d811eeddc3bd5a0dc3818fc92db.jpg

jetstream7
21st Apr 2020, 12:00
Ahhh... IEA.

Enjoyed a few flights with them. Cabin service was good, aspired to be better than some of the other bucket and spade carriers.

From Bristol to Izmir in 1988 - realised that the captain looked a bit familiar - it was the Chief Pilot Robert Seed who was pictured in the inflight magazine. En route is mentioned the Battle of Britain as we returned to UK airspace
On arrival to BRS it took a little while for the ground handlers to get unloading going - he came out of the cockpit and tore into the handling agent. Whole plane fell silent...probably not the way to let your frustrations out...
The following year I flew from Cardiff to Zakinthos - there was an extra staff member on the flight - not cabin crew, not flight crew, but very interestested in what was going on. I realised later it was one of the senior guys with the airline - Sean/Shaun something or other.
Finally, in 1991 I flew from Cardiff again, this time to Tenerife. I knew the aircraft would have been used out of Cardiff a lot as 'CCFC forever' was scratched into the seat in front...

Aspro Holidays / IEA were great for the travel industry in South Wales / South West, as they would introduce new destinations ahead of other carriers.

I remember flying on holiday with Airways International Cymru too - Tony Clemo the owner who lived just up the road from me passed away last year

Phileas Fogg
21st Apr 2020, 12:41
Ahhh... IEA.

Enjoyed a few flights with them. Cabin service was good, aspired to be better than some of the other bucket and spade carriers.

From Bristol to Izmir in 1988 - realised that the captain looked a bit familiar - it was the Chief Pilot Robert Seed who was pictured in the inflight magazine. En route is mentioned the Battle of Britain as we returned to UK airspace
On arrival to BRS it took a little while for the ground handlers to get unloading going - he came out of the cockpit and tore into the handling agent. Whole plane fell silent...probably not the way to let your frustrations out...
The following year I flew from Cardiff to Zakinthos - there was an extra staff member on the flight - not cabin crew, not flight crew, but very interestested in what was going on. I realised later it was one of the senior guys with the airline - Sean/Shaun something or other.
Finally, in 1991 I flew from Cardiff again, this time to Tenerife. I knew the aircraft would have been used out of Cardiff a lot as 'CCFC forever' was scratched into the seat in front...

Aspro Holidays / IEA were great for the travel industry in South Wales / South West, as they would introduce new destinations ahead of other carriers.

I remember flying on holiday with Airways International Cymru too - Tony Clemo the owner who lived just up the road from me passed away last year

Ah yes, Capt. Bob Seed, a shrewd Scotsman, the hotel in Cyprus were economising on the liquor, Bob took one sip of his brandy sour before turning to the barman announcing "Try putting your hydrometer in to that" :)

rog747
22nd Aug 2020, 10:41
This is quite a random conversation now but I’ve flown to Cyprus loads from the uk and was unaware that the crew changed. Particularly for EasyJet and Jet2 this would seem an expensive operation.

I still think that an IEA 757 left NCL on a Thursday morning in 1992 at least for one of LCA or PFO it didn’t return so therefore went to another Uk location operating flights to/from cyprus to the U.K. a few hours later on a Thursday morning the previously Cyprus based 757 arrived in Ncl from the other Cyprus airport and picked up the ncl based programme. The Cyprus based 757 at some other point during week operated to the uk From either lca or pfo but returned to the other. Thereby meaning that aspro had a full programme for one aircraft operating between Cyprus and the U.K. this being the point that we do agree on that Cyprus was important to aspro and IEA fed its passengers from the U.K.!

Sharm el Sheik was another place where FTL hours for crews meant HOTAC and layover at SSH, especially for MAN DSA or GLA crews - Not enough hours for a there and back duty.

If flights were doing fortnightly holidays to LCA then obviously the a/c would not, or may not go back to origin that day - It would op say BOH-LCA-NCL for instance. Crew change at LCA as mentioned ----
2 weeks later it would op NCL-LCA-BOH - to pick the BOH inbounds and so on....That is how Tour Operators get the most out of their charter series contracts with airlines.

I was always puzzled why IEA got an A320..........

rog747
22nd Aug 2020, 11:02
Yes, two out of the fleet of four B737's were damped leased to Australian Airlines, I occupied some 4 months or longer in Oz ground-managing the operation.

PF there is a new thread on AH&N right now about Dan Air's 727's and their Australian adventure during the TN pilot dispute. https://www.pprune.org/10867535-post17.html