British Army lower standards for recruits to the reading age of a 5 year old.

[NutLoose]

I know its not aviation but..... That's a reduction down from that of a 7-9 year old!! Blimey! recruitment must be dire.

Normally, its rules bar hiring anyone with a reading age below 'entry level two' – equivalent to that of a child aged seven to nine.
This is considered the minimum soldiers need to be able to read instructions for using firearms and explosives.
But amid difficulties in attracting youngsters, it has emerged that between 2016 and 2019 the Army took on 50 recruits at 'entry level one', with a reading age of between five and seven. According to the National Literacy Trust, anyone on 'entry level one' would struggle to read the instructions on a medicine bottle label – let alone for an assault rifle or a computer-operated drone.


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/army-signs-up-recruits-with-a-reading-age-as-young-as-five-in-desperate-bid-to-boost-troop-numbers/ar-BB12cwvr?ocid=spartandhp

[Hydromet]

Surely that's only for officers, innit?

[NutLoose]

Interesting snippet from it.

Legend has it that in the Duke of Wellington's final soldiering days, he approved a new Army pay book, which for the first time demanded soldiers' names and details.

The Duke is said to have chosen the name Thomas Atkins as an example to show the men how to fill in the documentation.

But because so many were illiterate, they did not know how to write their own names, and hundreds put themselves down as Thomas Atkins – leading to British soldiers' nickname of 'Tommies'.

[TBM-Legend]

I say it has nothing to do with Army standards but an example of the complete failure of the UK education system that can't produce literate people. Heaven forbid they check the three R's .... reading, [w]riting and [a]rithmatic..!

[Union Jack]

I say it has nothing to do with Army standards but an example of the complete failure of the UK education system that can't produce literate people. Heaven forbid they check the three R's .... reading, [w]riting and [a]rithmatic..!
.....including punctuation and spelling?:=

Jack

[Wyler]

I have spent a total of 3 years in the Falklands, between 1983 and 2002, and was collocated with the various Army units every time. It was not uncommon to have soldiers who could neither read nor write. In 1983 we used to do pay parades and some soldiers made their mark with a thumb print.
By far the best educated, and behaved, I served with were the Ghurkhas.

[V-Jet]

If they can’t read already, what a great opportunity for both the Army and the applicant. I can see benefits. Id rather leave education to the same team that brought us The Goons than Mexican drug cartels.

Being facetious, no sense over educating a grunt:) Wasn’t WWI won with actual 5yo’s in the trenches? I’m sure I read that somewhere??

[Sloppy Link]

Quote from elsewhere, “Do not look at the entrance standard as a measure of an organisation. Look at the quality of the leaver.”

[QuarterInchSocket]

in agreement with the others. how is this different to days of ol'? business as usual really

[old,not bold]

I was training recruits in the Royal Artillery '64-'65 (Oswestry); in those days the Army tested recruits' intellectual abilities on joining, and graded them from SG (Standard Grade) 1, down to SG 9.

To join the Royal Artillery, recruits had to be SG5 or above. In every training platoon of 40 there would be 10 or so SG5, who were unable to write a brief factual account of how they got to the camp from home, or to add 2 2-digit numbers. The same recruits would be unable to read anything beyond a 2-word newspaper headline. This was all put right by the end of the 8-week course. It was rarely, if ever, the result of lack of intelligence; it was the result of rotten schools and teachers, who allowed some of every class just to "sit at the back" with no encouragement, while they dealt with the more receptive pupils. Overcrowding and lack of funding were also a root cause.

So what's new in 2020? Not much, we still have some poor schools and poor teachers, lack of proper funding, and overcrowding. Giving pupils iPads isn't an answer; it's papering over the cracks.

(To put it into perspective, the infantry regiments accepted recruits down to SG9, but in those days infantrymen were not expected to be intellectuals.)

[Arclite01]

Well I knew plenty of people who had EPC and EPC(A) during the mid-80's and they were equally barely literate.

A sad reflection on both the schools outside and the internal education system.

At that time schools were saying to pupils 'don't worry about spelling and grammar - so long as you can get you idea across.............'

:-(

Arc

[FantomZorbin]

Not surprised … I had a boss that passed me his work to check before it was posted.

[Fareastdriver]

During the days of National Service the Army had no choice. For a large number of them the first six weeks was intensive lessons on reading and writing. Numbers came later when they learned to set a gunsight.

[unclenelli]

That happened in the late 90's! The Stanine Score for TG9 was reduced, so we got f**kwits!!!
I refused to give my initials when passed weather info from Kinloss!
KSS: We're now GREEN, Can I take your initials?
Me: What's changed?
KSS: The Colour Code, we're now GRN
Me: So what's changed?
KSS: The colour code! Can I get your initials?
Me: NO!, What's changed?
KSS: The QFE is now 998

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!
(Colour code is based on Cloud-Base & Visibility, but a change oF QFE/QNH was useful to ScATCC (Mil) as we passed weather onto to aircraft inbound to Scottish airfields!)

[teeteringhead]

One had a maths master at school who was a proud veteran (well he told us often enough) of the Rifle Brigade (as it was then).

He claimed that it was the first regiment to insist that all its soldiers could read and write.

[woptb]

During the Vietnam War, the US army essentially recruited functional illiterate’s, project 100,000 or McNamaras Morons. Forest Gump wasn’t all fiction!

Some had physical impairments, some were over- or under-weight, and many had very low mental aptitude—often to the point of being mentally handicapped!

[trim it out]

There are some seriously good eggs out there who struggle with the academic side so I’m glad the Army is taking them on and will put them through the education centre sausage factory (kicking and screaming probably).

[Zaphod Beblebrox]

Speaking as a Yank who graduated from a very middle of the road US Public High School, I am shocked and dismayed that the country that gave the world Shakespeare, the Kings English and a beautiful example of how to speak so properly without really moving your lips from her Majesty yesterday, I am astounded that you Brits are closing in on the US in education. Keep it up and we can have exchange students between the UK and Alabama or Mississippi, the end result will probably be the same.

[gijoe]

Speaking as a Yank who graduated from a very middle of the road US Public High School, I am shocked and dismayed that the country that gave the world Shakespeare, the Kings English and a beautiful example of how to speak so properly without really moving your lips from her Majesty yesterday, I am astounded that you Brits are closing in on the US in education. Keep it up and we can have exchange students between the UK and Alabama or Mississippi, the end result will probably be the same.

Agreed...the result will probably be along the lines of 'fix bayonet, engage en'...Don't need to R and R for that.
But that doesn't stop the p*ss-stained armchair warriors of PPrune pontificating.

[racedo]

The Sun is written for someone with the reading age of an average 7 year old, The Financial Times is written for someone with the reading age of an 11 year old.

The idea that you want intellectuals as privates in uniform has never been true, nor ever likely to be. The person sought is one who can be trained to follow orders.

In many cases over the centuries, the enlistment of someone in the army gave them a chance of a life, rather than an early death through malnourishment, health and welfare needs.

Unsurprising to many is the fact that the Army is able to turn out some reasonable citizens out of the dross that come out of civilisation, it doesn't always work but in majority of cases it does.

[meleagertoo]

Blaming schools or the education system for the totally unacceptable numbers of illiterates and innumerates it released into socuety is exactly the same as blaming factories and the motor industry for the appaling build quality of BL cars in the '70s and '80s.
Lousy cars are not built by an industry or a factory, they are built by shonky, slovenly workers who take no pride in their job.
The same is true of illiterate schoolkids. They are not educated by a system or a school, they are 'educated' - or not - by teachers.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Andy Mcnabb in his book, “Today everything changes” gives a moving account of what a positive force military service can be to disadvantaged youth

[Anti Skid On]

If they can’t read already, what a great opportunity for both the Army and the applicant. I can see benefits. Id rather leave education to the same team that brought us The Goons than Mexican drug cartels.

Being facetious, no sense over educating a grunt:) Wasn’t WWI won with actual 5yo’s in the trenches? I’m sure I read that somewhere??

Not sure about your comment, but free school milk was introduce after defeat in the Boer war, because the Zulu's were better nourished than the soldier of HM. Most lived in slums and were vitamin D deficient from lack of sunlight. Free school milk was introduced to provide calcium to make their bones stronger.

[Rheinstorff]

There are certainly a number of perspectives:

1. How does low educational attainment help in a world of (apparently increasing) volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity, and where there is increased oversight of activity due to enhanced political sensitivity to inter alia perceived inappropriate use of force?
2. How does low educational attainment help when our systems (even Infantry weapons, vehicles, comms and ISTAR) are more numerous, capable and frequently more demanding of the operator?
3. The Services, but particularly the Army, have always been a great social mobility mechanism from which individuals leave far more competent and capable than they enter and with far better prospects, very often far more than their school peer equivalents with no military background.
4. The education system seems to fail many young boys/men who go on to achieve impressive things in the Services.
5. In the absence of any significant improvement in the education system, perhaps we should better and more fully acknowledge that we have a duty to ourselves and our people to educate them more? There are potentially multiple benefits, beyond the obvious better educated workforce, including: increased competition for entry; even clearer societal benefits deriving from the Services; increased likelihood of better educated veterans more effectively advocating the case for Defence.

[STN Ramp Rat]

Blaming schools or the education system for the totally unacceptable numbers of illiterates and innumerates it released into socuety is exactly the same as blaming factories and the motor industry for the appaling build quality of BL cars in the '70s and '80s.
Lousy cars are not built by an industry or a factory, they are built by shonky, slovenly workers who take no pride in their job.
The same is true of illiterate schoolkids. They are not educated by a system or a school, they are 'educated' - or not - by teachers.

You can’t blame the teachers in the blanket way you have. A child’s first and primary educator is/are the parent(s). Schools can only do so much.

like all things, the problem is more complex than a simplified sweeping statement allows. Without knowing the background to the cases we can’t say why the army made the decision they did but one assumes they had to justify it as part of the process.

[Rheinstorff]

The idea that you want intellectuals as privates in uniform has never been true, nor ever likely to be. The person sought is one who can be trained to follow orders.

.

This this really doesn't capture the essence of today's situation. Perhaps once it was true. However, in a world of mission command (well applied or not), great reliance is placed on individuals, frequently down to the lowest level, to apply thought to seize initiative and to create and exploit opportunities. This is not merely to follow orders, but is much more to pursue intent. This requires a considerable degree of understanding, achieved through very rigorous individual training and education, and collective training. All of these, to some extent, compensate for the poor effect of the education system on many of the people the Services employ. Arguably, if the education system worked a little better, we could spend less time and money on the training we have to and more on the training we'd like to.

I think too, that intellectuals and following orders are not mutually exclusive. I acknowledge that in your (probable) pursuit of a pithy point, you have allowed that inference even if it was (probably) not what you intended.

[Ironpot]

Different skill set required to carry the Mortar or a GPMG and 300 rounds!

[Rheinstorff]

Different skill set required to carry the Mortar or a GPMG and 300 rounds!

Carry, probably. Operate, definitely!

[Asturias56]

In both WW's it was commented that the average educational standard of German Infantry was higher than the Brits - and it showed............. The German's were faster to react and less likely to require detailed supervision of all tasks

[57mm]

And still they lost.....

[charliegolf]

And still they lost.....

Viet Cong's performance not too shabby either.

CG

[Rheinstorff]

And still they lost.....

Poor strategy lost the Germans the war.

German tactical action in combat, on the other hand, was very good. Air power in the West and overwhelming numbers of Soviet forces in the East probably more than any other factors, were key to negating that.

[Rheinstorff]

Viet Cong's performance not too shabby either.

CG
Conversely, good strategy by the N Vietnamese; fight the war in the living rooms of every US household. Tactical action, not so goo; it's frequently said that the US never lost a tactical battle. Pity its strategy wasn't as good.

[Fourteenbore]

This this really doesn't capture the essence of today's situation. Perhaps once it was true. However, in a world of mission command (well applied or not), great reliance is placed on individuals, frequently down to the lowest level, to apply thought to seize initiative and to create and exploit opportunities. This is not merely to follow orders, but is much more to pursue intent. This requires a considerable degree of understanding, achieved through very rigorous individual training and education, and collective training. All of these, to some extent, compensate for the poor effect of the education system on many of the people the Services employ. Arguably, if the education system worked a little better, we could spend less time and money on the training we have to and more on the training we'd like to.

I think too, that intellectuals and following orders are not mutually exclusive. I acknowledge that in your (probable) pursuit of a pithy point, you have allowed that inference even if it was (probably) not what you intended.

Last year at school, master addressed class,"You will be getting your call up papers soon, when you go in you will be recognised as officer material and some of the others will give you a hard time. Once you get through that, life will be much easier.". As a very shy and not very confident youngster, this did not encourage me. However, shortly after the government scrapped National Service, so I never went through the experience. Don't know if being a natural good shot would have made any difference! A lot of us wanted to be Spitfire pilots, though the machines were obsolete by then. The power of wartime reporting.

[FODPlod]

Haven’t we been here before?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10885395/We-now-struggle-to-recruit-brightest-and-best-warns-head-of-Army.html

[BEagle]

One hopes that the new recruits will at least be able to read FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY and understand the need for the wording!

[ambidextrous]

Between 1962 to 1974, "Tommy's" were somewhat better educated, they must have been as they hired me.!

14th. November 1973 . Mark Phillips, known as "Foggie" by Anne's brothers married the lady in question.

P.S.:"Foggie's"commanding officer was heard to say "Lt.Phillips will go far in the Army because he's a Gentleman". Presumably at that period nothing further was required as an Officer!

[Big Pistons Forever]

Medium size militaries, like Canada and the UK have a growing problem with recruiting. The idea of the "strategic" corporal/leading seaman/leading aircrewman, is not just hyperbole anymore. We are expecting quite junior personnel to make real time decisions in very ambiguous battle spaces. Plus we are trying to leverage every member to the maximum so the luxury of assigning only a very small well defined to task to everyone to make life simpler for the individual, with multiple people required to accomplish the whole task is not realistic anymore. That and ubiquitous technology means that core competencies require the ability to read with understanding.

It is a perfect storm as the average recruit becomes less fit, less healthy, less mechanically competent, less use to having to make their own decisions, and less competent in basic reading and math; yet the demands and expectations placed on him or her only grow. In Canada we are starting to see a lot of pre course preparation training, which in many cases is basically an accelerated high school program minus the fluffy bits, in order to keep course pass rates for military coursing at an acceptable level.

[woptb]

Poor strategy lost the Germans the war.

German tactical action in combat, on the other hand, was very good. Air power in the West and overwhelming numbers of Soviet forces in the East probably more than any other factors, were key to negating that.

Von Clausewitz lost Germany the war!

[Boslandew]

I'm slightly confused here. Why would you not want to pass your initials?

[Party Animal]

Poor strategy lost Germany the War!!!

I think a 10 year old kid with the reading ability of a 6 year old could have told you:

’Don’t invade Russia’!!!

[Timmy Tomkins]

Well, the Duke of Wellingon's illiterates didn't do to badly did they?

[pr00ne]

Timmy Tomkins,

Apart from the fact that the Duke's Army was far far more literate than you appear to suggest, try giving an illiterate soldier a Javelin, or a Starstreak, or a hand launched lap Top driven UAV...

[old,not bold]

To get an insight into relative intellectual levels of different kinds of soldier in the UK Armed Forces in the '60s, at least, look no further than how artillery support was provided for the then new concept of the "Commando Carriers", old aircraft carriers converted to carry a Commando (ie battalion strength) with artillery support, to be landed ashore to extinguish brush fire rebellions in the remaining bits of the British Empire.

In preparation for the commissioning of the two carriers (Albion and Bulwark) the Navy decided to resurrect the old Royal Marine Artillery and form a 6-gun battery for each carrier to complete the Commando battle group. Unfortunately, it proved impossible to find any Marines clever enough to learn how to work out the sometimes quite complex arithmetic for surveying gun positions, then providing indirect fire support without actually killing the grunts in front. After a year or two, with the commissioning looming, a lateral thinker in the MoD suggested that a Royal Artillery Field Regiment should be ordered to go to Lympstone RMCTC and pass the Commando course, shortened to keep all the physical training activities and tests but dropping the basic soldier training. Since it was already located in the Citadel in Plymouth, 29 Field Regt RA was selected to do this. At the time the regiment was split between Kuwait and the Yemen border in Aden Protectorate, but all quickly returned to the UK . With one exception every single member (ie 500+) of the regiment passed the same Commando course tests as the RM recruits, in batches over the next 3-4 months, the regiment was re-equipped with 105mm light howitzers of Italian design, and was thus able to join in the commissioning cruise of HMS Bulwark, practising landings on the South Coast, mainly in the Lulworth Cove area. The RNAS squadron on board had the new Wessex to contend with; among other learning curves confusion about the location of the hook release button and the PTT button, different from the Whirwinds they had before, led to guns and lightweight Landrovers inadvertently being released. (You know; P2 to P1, "Wossa time then?"; P1 to P2 "Half past sev......oh ****".)

And so 29 Commando Regiment RA was born; a monument to lateral thinking.

[Union Jack]

Between 1962 to 1974, "Tommy's" were somewhat better educated, they must have been as they hired me.!

14th. November 1973 . Mark Phillips, known as "Foggie" by Anne's brothers married the lady in question.

P.S.:"Foggie's"commanding officer was heard to say "Lt.Phillips will go far in the Army because he's a Gentleman". Presumably at that period nothing further was required as an Officer!

An interesting observation given that I'm fairly confident that the then CO of the Queen's Dragoon Guards would have expected, and made sure, that *all* his young officers met that criterion.

On a lighter note the nickname "Foggy" comes as no surprise, since Prince Charles will readily have remembered that a favourite steam pudding in wardroom messes was called Sandhurst Pudding, because it was thick and sticky.

Jack

[RedhillPhil]

During the Vietnam War, the US army essentially recruited functional illiterate’s, project 100,000 or McNamaras Morons. Forest Gump wasn’t all fiction!

Some had physical impairments, some were over- or under-weight, and many had very low mental aptitude—often to the point of being mentally handicapped!

..and here they are being talked about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J2VwFDV4-g

[trim it out]

try giving an illiterate soldier a Javelin, or a Starstreak, or a hand launched lap Top driven UAV...
It doesn't work like that in the real world though.

First, there is the BARB test to filter out jobs suitable based on a crude aptitude test (I was unsuitable RMP, what a shame!).
Second, if "illiterate" is the entrance bench mark then they will come out of training with some form of academic qualification to show they have a basic level of comprehension both numbers and letters (level 2 functional skills).
Third, there is a form of streaming at unit level to determine suitable candidates for jobs. You use the strengths and weaknesses of the team to achieve the task. Not everyone was a wizard on the kit, but not everyone could carry all the kit up the hill like an Ox.
Fourth, people can be trained to work kit without knowing the intricacies. Take the Javelin for example, does it matter if the soldier doesn't know what NFOV stands for or is it just important that he knows it means "zoom in"?

[weemonkey]

One hopes that the new recruits will at least be able to read FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY and understand the need for the wording!


Sigh.

How many times do you have to be told it's the fault of the education system.

And it is.

[a1anx]

I say it has nothing to do with Army standards but an example of the complete failure of the UK education system that can't produce literate people. Heaven forbid they check the three R's .... reading, [w]riting and [a]rithmatic..!

They may be illiterate but they'll be very caring and expert virtue signallers and useful for very little.

[weemonkey]

They may be illiterate but they'll be very caring and expert virtue signallers and useful for very little.
which may well be the plan.

[pr00ne]

Seeing as there is a tiny TINY weeny percentage of the UK population that is ether illiterate or close to the low standards being discussed, surely the major problem is that most people, of ANY educational standard, just don't want to join the Army?

[Rheinstorff]

Poor strategy lost Germany the War!!!

I think a 10 year old kid with the reading ability of a 6 year old could have told you:

’Don’t invade Russia’!!!
Or, indeed a 6 year old with the reading age of a 6 year old.

Some schools of thought suggest Hitler could have defeated the Soviets' ability to fight back coherently if he'd chosen to advance on only one front. This to first capture Moscow and severely degrade or defeat the USSR's highly centralised command and control, both military and economic/industrial. (And, if he hadn't also become obsessed with capturing Stalingrad as he judged its iconic status to be of pivotal importance to the Soviet population's morale). He could then have defeated the remnants in detail and, more-or-less, at his leisure.

I'm not so sure, but his failure to concentrate force at the correct time and place certainly dissipated effect and cost time, which allowed the Soviets to continue the war into the winter, moving key industrial capacity east of the Urals, and allowing the regeneration of their armed forces, and reinforcement of equipment by the Allies, etc. It remains possible, though un-provable, that a more focused, Moscow-first strategy would have worked (like the Allies' Europe-first strategy agreed, I think, at the Ottawa Conference).

[pr00ne]

Rheinstorff,

Whilst struggling to see what relevance 1945 is to the British Army's failure to be able to recruit, your well made points above provoke thought about Hitler and 1941. I am not sure that whatever tactics Hitler adopted would have overcome the massive imbalance in ultimate numbers that the Soviets could employ against him. It may have taken longer, but once the initial thrust had been absorbed the Germans were on the back foot strategically within a pretty short time, and come what may he still had General Winter to fight at least twice, possible more. He may have won a tactical victory and taken Moscow, but then the Soviets still had massive resource that they were able to bring to bear, and Hitler simply did not. Plus he was fighting elsewhere against the British Empire and the USA, that was never going to be doable.

[Rheinstorff]

Rheinstorff,

Whilst struggling to see what relevance 1945 is to the British Army's failure to be able to recruit, your well made points above provoke thought about Hitler and 1941. I am not sure that whatever tactics Hitler adopted would have overcome the massive imbalance in ultimate numbers that the Soviets could employ against him. It may have taken longer, but once the initial thrust had been absorbed the Germans were on the back foot strategically within a pretty short time, and come what may he still had General Winter to fight at least twice, possible more. He may have won a tactical victory and taken Moscow, but then the Soviets still had massive resource that they were able to bring to bear, and Hitler simply did not. Plus he was fighting elsewhere against the British Empire and the USA, that was never going to be doable.

I agree to a considerable extent; I'm not confident a single axis would have worked, but it definitely stood a far better chance than the three axis attack, against which the Soviets barely held on. I do think capturing Moscow would have constituted more than a tactical victory, given the centripetal nature of Stalin's command and control of the USSR, and would have significantly disabled the USSR's capability to organise its military industrial response.

This is thread drift of considerable proportions, so I'll now desist from my qualitative dissection of Nazi tactical and strategic actions!

[Big Pistons Forever]

With respect to Germany’s conduct of WW 2, Amateurs discuss tactics, professionals discuss logistics.....

With respect to education standards I remember reading a report by a US defense attaché in 1938. After observing a German army exercise he said, “Every private would be a corporal, every corporal, a Sargent, every Sargent a lieutenant, in the US army.

[turbidus]

According to the National Literacy Trust, anyone on 'entry level one' would struggle to read the instructions on a medicine bottle label – let alone for an assault rifle or a computer-operated drone.

Last I remember, there are no printed instructions on an assault rifle (except safe, semi, and auto) although I see some Marines had that replaced with no pew, pew, and pew,pew,pew...:}

damn, raising the reading level to 5 year old?

next thing you know, they will check for inbreeding, and will have to import recruits from OZ...oh, wait...

[rolling20]

Having done my UAS stint and realising HM would never let me in her airforce, people way better than me on the squadron having been turned down, I joined the local TA. Now I joined with a school chum who is now a Dr of Mathematics, we were both privates. I'm not sure about him, but I never filled any educational qualifications in on my form. Our first weekend prior to being sworn in was an eye opener. A written/ multiple choice test took place and after we sat it out of 40 or so of us, 6 of us were then left in a TV room, while the others were called out. Being worried I was missing something exciting, I asked a corporal what was occurring. Resit! He snapped. The mark wasn't that high 40% or something, but the large majority had alas failed. We were told before the test that a good mark would allow us to possibly apply for a commission. Funnily enough neither my chum or myself never achieved that accolade. Now a map reading exercise some weeks later really was amusing. I left for personal reasons some time after. The chaps I met though were all decent people and at that late Cold War time under no illusions.

[Archimedes]

With respect to Germany’s conduct of WW 2, Amateurs discuss tactics, professionals discuss logistics.....

With respect to education standards I remember reading a report by a US defense attaché in 1938. After observing a German army exercise he said, “Every private would be a corporal, every corporal, a Sargent, every Sargent a lieutenant, in the US army.

IIRC, all German soldiers were trained to be able to fulfil the duties of those two ranks higher, so that if a platoon suddenly discovered that the poor Leutnant had copped it, and the SNCO then fell down clutching his leg saying 'Ouch!', one of the Corporals would know exactly what a platoon commander did and would take over. This contrasted with the British model which seemed to work on the basis of one of the NCOs (or sometimes the Private who was always getting into trouble in peacetime) muttering a profanity, saying 'right, lads, follow me!' and earning themselves a DCM or MM as everything worked out in the end. Which is not quite as stereotypical an account of how it worked in the British Army as it might sound (at least according to my Uncle, who spent a bit of time between 1944-45 having some rather serious disagreements with some Germans).

[krismiler]

When the draft is in force, the army gets a broad spectrum of the population, not just those who want to be soldiers or have few other options. Therefore a period in the not too distant past when there was a draft provides a good comparison base for the present generation of recruits.

The Vietnam war is going back a bit far but the last person drafted in the USA was in 1973 and it's been voluntary ever since. For the UK, national service ended in 1960 with the last servicemen leaving in 1963 so we are going back a bit.

In the years after Vietnam there have been periods when average IQ scores of volunteer army recruits have been lower than those who were drafted which isn't a good indication, particularly as the draft favoured poor and uneducated while the more intelligent got deferements and went on to further education. There were also times when a judge would give the option to someone who had just been found guilty, of joining the army or going to prison. Then again there were times when the military wouldn't take you if you had an outstanding parking fine.

This article regarding the quality of current US recruits is quite interesting and dispels a few myths.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/sg/blog/after-service/201801/are-military-members-the-lowest-our-low

It will be interesting to see the quality of recruits in the years following this pandemic, with fewer opportunities available the prospect of secure employment, paid training and opportunities for advancement that the military provide would be very attractive to someone who wouldn't have otherwise considered the army.

[oldpax]

I will admit to reading facebook and several forums.The standard of written English by both male and female correspondents is abysmal.I do not profess to be any better but make far fewer mistakes.(No GCEs and secondary modern school).Mind you I did 18 months as a boy entrant!!!

[NutLoose]

Since this broke, I just cannot get out of my mind two army officers sitting in a landrover discussing tactics with Haribo's, rather like this

https://www.adsoftheworld.com/media/film/haribo_police

[Arclite01]

Rolling20

My experience of the TA in the mid- late 80's was:

that some people saw it as a social club and went with their mates. If one left they all left................................. (usually just as they were becoming useful to the unit) :ugh:
that some people saw it as a proving ground and left after a year or so to join the regulars.............
that some saw it as an area where they used their civilian skills in a military context.............. to the benefit of both parties
that some people stayed for many years until retirement age while the average time was between 18 months and 6 years - usually they joined at 18/19 and then left when they got married............................
that some people were fantasists (Walts).............................


As a rule they were reasonably well educated (CSE or GCE 'O' Levels) and saw the TA as a challenge/change, they made good basic Rifleman in the platoons. There were however a fair sprinkling of low literacy or illiterates in the mix, often they would ask me to help with filling forms and so on................ when they found I could write. They were good at humping the GPMG around though :)

Maybe that was a factor of the geographical area I was in though (SE UK). Not sure what it was like in other areas..........

Very much the 'Citizen Soldiers' of Kitcheners Army I think....................

Oh - and there were no formal educational qualifications required to join at that time.

Arc

[NutLoose]

I was on Salisbury plain with our Puma and Wessex in the 70's and we had some TA arrive to play trooping and roping etc, they impressed the heck out of me in their dedication etc, their unit had travelled a long distance, (Bristol comes to mind) to take part and their fuel allowance wouldn't cover it, so they had been begging, stealing and borrowing fuel for the 4 tonner for months to allow them to take part, and they made the most of the opportunity.
They were game to try everything and put their new found skills to the test, they went away happy and better for it.

[Arclite01]

I was on Salisbury plain with our Puma and Wessex in the 70's and we had some TA arrive to play trooping and roping etc, they impressed the heck out of me in their dedication etc, their unit had travelled a long distance, (Bristol comes to mind) to take part and their fuel allowance wouldn't cover it, so they had been begging, stealing and borrowing fuel for the 4 tonner for months to allow them to take part, and they made the most of the opportunity.
They were game to try everything and put their new found skills to the test, they went away happy and better for it.

As a result of the various 'Cost Saving Measures' after 1987 it always annoyed me that we were required to feed ourselves for the first 24 hours, so had to bring a packed lunch for day one of any weekend. After 24hrs the QM would issue Ration Packs, 10 man for the use of....................... and then the competition for chocolate bars and red sweets began.........................

We knew all the good transport cafes though. And it's a long way from Surrey to Otterburn in a 4 tonner that was older than you were..............

Arc

[SARF]

In the RNLI our station gets a decent cross section of educational life.. all volunteers, so you do get natural enthusiaism..and pretty much all blokes so fairly army standard.
the difference is of course the age range, with long servers at 30 yrs of age and beginners of 45 plus.

any way there is plenty of maths to get through and not everyone enjoys it,, my favourite is the radar course,, after hours and hours of training. you get in the boat,, it gets foggy. your rings and lines are set up.. you adjust for clutter and rain,, blah blah etc etc

then after 5 minutes you stick it on heads up and steer around the blibs and blobs... that's 5 o levels worth

[spindrier7]

Blaming schools or the education system for the totally unacceptable numbers of illiterates and innumerates it released into socuety is exactly the same as blaming factories and the motor industry for the appaling build quality of BL cars in the '70s and '80s.
Lousy cars are not built by an industry or a factory, they are built by shonky, slovenly workers who take no pride in their job.
The same is true of illiterate schoolkids. They are not educated by a system or a school, they are 'educated' - or not - by teachers.

Typical “it’s someone else’s fault mantra.” I am afraid you have rather missed the mark here. It is poor parenting that it the key inhibitor to learning. Parents have their children for the first 5 years where the foundations are laid. Poor foundations provide the absence of a thirst for discovery.
Teachers provide the tools, parents must take ownership of the reinforcement of those tools by continuing the drive at home...

[SirToppamHat]

I'm slightly confused here. Why would you not want to pass your initials?
Presumably because he wanted to know what the actual change was (which was eventually passed). But there's something wrong in that story which is if the airfield colour state had been changed TO Green from Yellow or Blue, there must have been a change to the lowest level of 3 oktas cloud cover or visibility (on which the colour states (apart from Black) are based. A change to the QNH would not have any impact on the clolour state. I would not have given my initials either without the rest of the information.