FIFO aircraft operations given a free pass?

[Icarus2001]

Now before anyone gets bent out of shape, I am very happy for our colleagues in the FIFO charter world. It is great that they are busy and still in "secure" employment. However I cannot for the life of me understand the justification of exposing cabin crew, terminal staff and pilots to "large" numbers of passengers on the justification that digging iron ore out of the ground is essential.

Before you respond think about the other restrictions. No more than five people at a wedding, which is the minimum essential number required, the couple, a celebrant and two witnesses. Funerals can only be attended by ten people. No more than two people to gather in groups.
Meanwhile sixty or seventy on a Fokker 100 flying ninety minutes to a mine site is seen as acceptable. The terminal aggregation is also an issue.

If one of these cabin crew or terminal staff get sick then it is a workplace injury, not sick leave. Is this considered a safe workplace? Consider the link below...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-02/coronavirus-qantas-investigated-by-safework-nsw/12113712

Difficult to say that the mines will keep our economy running given the very low royalties paid to government. I just find it a glaring double standard and a free pass to the mining companies.

[R.Cruizo]

What “free pass” are you referring to Icarus? Compared to current QF /Virgin , adhoc charter pilots, cabin crew check in staff?

[TULSAMI]

Perth had 34 scheduled arrivals today between 12-1, Sydney had 4 in the same time. The mining boom pretty much saved Australia financially from the worst of the GFC. With the falling $AUD and steady commodity prices and climbing gold, the miners are doing reasonably well for now and I think any attempt to shut it down would be met with great opposition from Canberra. Have herd some mines are considering increasing the work swings to 4 weeks on at a time instead of 1 or 2 to reduce cross contamination chances.

[Berealgetreal]

He’s spot on social distancing etc all these rules just ignored when it suits. Apply in one place but not the other.

Like masks, work for doctors nurses but hey if a healthy person puts one on in Australia it could make them sick. Must reckon we’re all idiots or something.

Just put your hand up and say “we’ve run out of masks” instead of bull****ting people.

Round 1: 130 billion dollars vs 8 weeks of borders staying open. It’s an absolute scandal and we will pay for those 8 weeks for the rest of our lives. Don’t expect to see your super until 80.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Don’t expect to see your super until 80

....if you have any.

[Icarus2001]

What “free pass” are you referring to Icarus? Compared to current QF /Virgin , adhoc charter pilots, cabin crew check in staff? Bill Bloggs is told no you cannot go to the cinema, you cannot go the local bar or restaurant, you can walk in the park with ONE other person and that is it but if Bill Bloggs works on a mine he can jump in a Fokker with 60-70 other people, no problem. Where is the social distancing? What about in the terminal? Compared to QF and VA, come on, they are hardly flying anyone right now.
He cannot go to his daughters wedding or his uncles funeral but he can fly to a mine and dig dirt because that is essential. Come on get real.

[R.Cruizo]

You can mention cinemas, weddings all you like. I see people at airline terminals, some FiFO, some traveling QF, some traveling Virgin, some a handful of other operators. Whether they are traveling for Mine charter, Resource support RPT or other employment reasons I don’t see the “ free pass” reasoning.Social distancing measures put in place by the mines require additional aircraft. They’d love to see the loads your quoting.

[aussieflyboy]

The mines are practicing ‘social distancing’ very well from what I’ve seen.

Max 60 pax in F100, 75 in B717, 114 in B737 ie: spare seat between all pax.

Airport terminal seating in PER has been changed around and you can no longer sit next to someone.

Medical checks prior to going through security and again on arrival into site.

Went to Woolies today and it was virtually ops normal there...

[-41]

Ok the free pass means, We have lost the freedom to travel via vehicle, bicycle, boat outside of our region (let alone interstate) to go to a beach shack -

but a fIFO employee can leave a Sydney cluster hotspot fly into Perth then overnight and fly into regions with the most compromised immune systems.


You can’t have more than 4 people in any isle at Bunnings

but you can fit 60+ into a aluminium tube about the same dimensions as a Bunnings isle.

[R.Cruizo]

I see no difference to 10, 20, 50, 60 people in an aluminum tube flying anywhere else. But you are free to believe what ever want.

[aussieflyboy]

A NSW FIFO worker can not do what your saying:


https://cmewa.com.au/uncategorised/no-more-fifo-from-nsw/

Calm down champ.

If everything shuts up shop the virus will be the least of your problems. Suicide, domestic violence and petty crime could skyrocket.

[Paragraph377]

In Queensland you’re not even aloud to go out fishing in your Tinnie FFS!! A great big fu#king ocean around you, yet you can’t sit out there and fish??????? Bureaucracy gone mad.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

QLD had tightened up on FIFO with effect 2359 Friday. Also on the conditions applying when they get to the worksite.

[longjohn]

If you think the economy is stuffed now, try shutting down mining and resources.....

Over $300B, Australia’s number 1 & 2 exports are all that’s left. Everything else is stuffed.

But by all means, shut it down and see what happens.

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

Dude, the mine sites are all over this. Can you imagine what one infected person would to to a camp?

The mining companies are doing temperature checks prior to workers going through security, the terminals in Perth have blocked off seating in the terminals to enhance “social distancing” and you can expect to see flights being upgauged to allow for increased separation.

No one is taking this lightly and these are the industries keeping this country afloat.

As you were.

[Switchbait]

Don’t worry about FIFO, your local suburban and inner city construction sites are taking zero measures..... at least the mines and FIFO operations are following known precautionary practices.

[directimped]

The mining boom pretty much saved Australia financially from the worst of the GFC. With the falling $AUD and steady commodity prices and climbing gold, the miners are doing reasonably well for now and I think any attempt to shut it down would be met with great opposition from Canberra. .
You probably don't want to hear that coal was just listed and the world's most expensive fossil fuel. Too bad we bet the house on it, I wonder what will save us this time?

[havick]

You probably don't want to hear that coal was just listed and the world's most expensive fossil fuel. Too bad we bet the house on it, I wonder what will save us this time?

Gold.......

[Maggie Island]

You probably don't want to hear that coal was just listed and the world's most expensive fossil fuel. Too bad we bet the house on it, I wonder what will save us this time?

Isn’t that exactly what we want to hear???

There are also rumours that Brazillian iron ore operations have just been infected with the virus; they will undoubtedly carry on for now - but may be forced to shut down in the coming weeks which will make the iron ore price climb well into the FLs!

The weak AUD means mining revenues are soaring, which correlates with the increases of mining staff by the thousands on the West Coast.

[KRviator]

Ok the free pass means, We have lost the freedom to travel via vehicle, bicycle, boat outside of our region (let alone interstate) to go to a beach shack -

but a fIFO employee can leave a Sydney cluster hotspot fly into Perth then overnight and fly into regions with the most compromised immune systems.AAhh, no, you can't...

I am a NSW FIFO worker and I cannot get back to site for my next swing Well, technically I can - but I'll spend the entire swing in quarantine in my room, I cannot go on site, I cannot go to the mess for tucker, I cannot go to the gym, you get the idea.... And then my swing is over so I fly home and repeat the process in NSW....

The company is allocating two weeks leave for those in that boat, and after that, you'll need to start dipping into your own leave allocation. Talking to Perth-based colleagues, the companies are taking this extremely seriously, in come cases, specifically chartering aircraft vs the previously-normal share-an-RPT to help control who sits where and enforce distancing so much as you can in a tin tube, coupled with the aforementioned temperature checks before and after boarding, changing rosters on site to minimise interaction with other shifts and going from a 2/1 roster to 2/2. Woodside are reportedly offering interstate FIFO's extraordinary sums to relocate to WA for the duration of the lock-down to avoid the interstate quarantine issues.

When you consider mining royalties account for ~20% of WA's revenue in the 2018/19FY, keeping the dirt moving is unfortunately essential, particularly when you have a huge unexpected hole blown in your budget.

[RENURPP]

In Queensland you’re not even aloud to go out fishing in your Tinnie FFS!! A great big fu#king ocean around you, yet you can’t sit out there and fish??????? Bureaucracy gone mad.

rubbish.
re read the rules.

[Berealgetreal]

Are the pilots practicing social distancing? Masks goggles on I assume?

[-41]

AAhh, no, you can't...

I am a NSW FIFO worker and I cannot get back to site for my next swing Well, technically I can - but I'll spend the entire swing in quarantine in my room, I cannot go on site, I cannot go to the mess for tucker, I cannot go to the gym, you get the idea.... And then my swing is over so I fly home and repeat the process in NSW....

The company is allocating two weeks leave for those in that boat, and after that, you'll need to start dipping into your own leave allocation. Talking to Perth-based colleagues, the companies are taking this extremely seriously, in come cases, specifically chartering aircraft vs the previously-normal share-an-RPT to help control who sits where and enforce distancing so much as you can in a tin tube, coupled with the aforementioned temperature checks before and after boarding, changing rosters on site to minimise interaction with other shifts and going from a 2/1 roster to 2/2. Woodside are reportedly offering interstate FIFO's extraordinary sums to relocate to WA for the duration of the lock-down to avoid the interstate quarantine issues.

When you consider mining royalties account for ~20% of WA's revenue in the 2018/19FY, keeping the dirt moving is unfortunately essential, particularly when you have a huge unexpected hole blown in your budget.

okay fair enough I’m glad they’ve taken action. We can not enter WA as residents from Sunday night from interstate without a exception letter.

I still don’t see how FIFO is essential, or how the aerosol risk of infection is reduced in a Aircraft vs outdoors with groups greater than two people.

as for the WA mining royalties that’s a moot point, just wait for our 20% gst. As we pay off federal spending on this virus as consumers.

[TULSAMI]

You probably don't want to hear that coal was just listed and the world's most expensive fossil fuel. Too bad we bet the house on it, I wonder what will save us this time?

You probably don't want to hear that no coal is mined in the Pilbara region (which is where the bulk of FIFO traffic goes), its Iron Ore ,you've got absolutely no idea you imbecile

[directimped]

You probably don't want to hear that no coal is mined in the Pilbara region (which is where the bulk of FIFO traffic goes), its Iron Ore ,you've got absolutely no idea you imbecile
Calm down mate, no need for that.

[Icarus2001]

as for the WA mining royalties that’s a moot point, just wait for our 20% gst. Yep, I am calling it now. In 2021 the GST will rise to 15%.

[Thirsty]

On a Safety Tour of a mine in Central Qld quite a few years ago.
Manager mentions that it costs $3million per hour if the mine stops for any reason. They take safety very seriously. Stopping to do paperwork is also far more expensive than keeping everybody alive.

Casually mention it back at the private landing strip as my mate flies in from Wagga. A guy with a safety helmet grabs a package off him and speeds away.
Where have you been this morning?
They offered me $30K to fly down to Wagga to pick up a part for one of the mines. They said it was mission critical and the guy would be waiting at the end of the runway to pass it to you through the window so don't bother to switch off the engine - just turn around and bring it right back, pronto.

Faster to send down a local ag flyer guy than get it sent commercially via Sydney/Brisbane/Bush via air or truck, and then out to the mine.

They do take things seriously. Money doesn't talk out there, it shouts!

Great cash sideline for an ag flyer in mining country.

[Thirsty]

Yep, I am calling it now. In 2021 the GST will rise to 15%.If you crunch the numbers after every Aussie Federal budget, you can see that GST should be around 17.5% to make the books balance and get rid of the State and Federal taxes and duty they promised to abolish when GST came in. I was privy to some of the conversations in Canberra about the amount to charge and they settled on 10% because it was an easy figure to calculate, not because it would help balance the books.

I cannot see them moving it to 15%, but going all the way to 20% - "just double what you are paying now and be glad you are alive".

As an aside, I also was there when they did the projections for old age and the pensions and how they calculated the amount of super to collect. The projections to the year 2015 were frightening for how much drain on the public purse old age pensions would be, and they also decided on the amount based on 'what the public could bear', and 'political survival', rather than what they would need to support the aged and needy.

Even before the Covid-19 cash splurge, we were still borrowing from the future and will be for many years, even with the gradual rise on the super amount each year.

[Berealgetreal]

Low dollar could be good news for the mining charter guys. Good luck to them. Ironically it’s always been the notion that one day the contract would dry up and they’d be on the street. Well now it’s the RPT that’s dried up!

[Thirsty]

RPTs? The mining companies will be creating their own airlines if they have to move their own people around. Maybe they will buy Virgin at a 'rescue' price?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

I have heard - third hand - (Rumour) that some FIFO's are now being transferred PER to NWN via a BUS....the diesel kind.

Longer transit times, and I have not heard anything about the 'seating' arrangements.

Any volunteers? More info?

Cheers.....and Good Luck To All.

[neville_nobody]

The mining companies will be creating their own airlines if they have to move their own people around. Maybe they will buy Virgin at a 'rescue' price?

No they will just subcontract one of the 6+ operators that do FIFO charter already. Why would any mining company start a private airline when they can play numerous businesses off each other?

[Paragraph377]

rubbish.
re read the rules.

Really??? From the MSQ boss;

Mr Mitchell said 'there are a range of scenarios where you may want to take a boat out' but 'the first question you should ask yourself is: do you need to take your boat out?'

"Queensland's Chief Health Officer has been very clear - if you don't need to be out then stay at home. That is now the law," he said.

"The same rules that apply on land also apply in our waterways, bays and out at sea.

"If you're looking for a loophole to leave the home, then you probably shouldn't be heading out."

He said there are essential reasons along Queensland's long and populated coastline where people need their boat - like fishing, exercise, going shopping, or getting to work.

"The current rules don't seek to stop boat owners using their boats for essential reasons," he said.

"Boaties should stay as local as possible, and social distancing rules apply, at the boat ramp and on your boat.

"Boaties should only be with one other person, or with family from the same household."

[Cloudee]

Really??? From the MSQ boss;

Mr Mitchell said 'there are a range of scenarios where you may want to take a boat out' but 'the first question you should ask yourself is: do you need to take your boat out?'

"Queensland's Chief Health Officer has been very clear - if you don't need to be out then stay at home. That is now the law," he said.

"The same rules that apply on land also apply in our waterways, bays and out at sea.

"If you're looking for a loophole to leave the home, then you probably shouldn't be heading out."

He said there are essential reasons along Queensland's long and populated coastline where people need their boat - like fishing, exercise, going shopping, or getting to work.

"The current rules don't seek to stop boat owners using their boats for essential reasons," he said.

"Boaties should stay as local as possible, and social distancing rules apply, at the boat ramp and on your boat.

"Boaties should only be with one other person, or with family from the same household."

So, from your post above, fishing is an essential reason for going out and the current rules don’t seek to stop boat owners using their boats for essential reasons. I’m going fishing.

[Section28- BE]

LOOK- THIS FIFO '****e,' is Dead- Easy, 1.5mtrs in a "sealed" container............... ALL GOOD-.

Put 'THE' Packs on Fresh- Air, And ALL Freekin GOOD- like the New JaZ, by Toyota.............

Reckon, stay Calm.

Rgds
S28- BE

[601]

"Queensland's Chief Health Officer has been very clear - if you don't need to be out then stay at home. That is now the law," he said.

Last time I looked the Qld Chief Health Officer was a young lady, well younger than me.

[RENURPP]

Really??? From the MSQ boss;

Mr Mitchell said 'there are a range of scenarios where you may want to take a boat out' but 'the first question you should ask yourself is: do you need to take your boat out?'

"Queensland's Chief Health Officer has been very clear - if you don't need to be out then stay at home. That is now the law," he said.

"The same rules that apply on land also apply in our waterways, bays and out at sea.

"If you're looking for a loophole to leave the home, then you probably shouldn't be heading out."

He said there are essential reasons along Queensland's long and populated coastline where people need their boat - like fishing, exercise, going shopping, or getting to work.

"The current rules don't seek to stop boat owners using their boats for essential reasons," he said.

"Boaties should stay as local as possible, and social distancing rules apply, at the boat ramp and on your boat.

"Boaties should only be with one other person, or with family from the same household."
yep as “cloudee” says read your own post.

He said there are essential reasons along Queensland's long and populated coastline where people need their boat - like fishing, exercise, going shopping, or getting to work.

[B772]

Re GST. This tax is collected by the Commonwealth and distributed to the States and Territories by formula. Due to the downturn in the economy from tourism and everything else you can think of this means less money for the States in years to come. If the owners of Virgin will not put in lose change to extend their life support program this collapse is the tip of the iceberg. Even Qantas is small fry compared to keeping the mines open for as long as there are buyers for the coal and ore or employees to keep the operations going.

The importance of the mines can not be underestimated. Just in W.A the State government receives almost $10B in royalties and the Federal receives almost $8B in Company tax from mining activities. I do not have other figures except to say the figures for coal are even greater than iron ore.

[Icarus2001]

So not just the FIFO given a free pass.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/packed-qantas-flight-sparks-outrage-for-ignoring-social-distancing/news-story/f5241881352d9a9e8c0c62d02fb6bd67

I cannot sit at my local cafe and drink a coffee but cramming them into a cabin, with or without a seat in between is okay apparently.

https://www.dmarge.com/2020/04/qantas-formal-social-distancing-flight-rules.html

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x400/1587117302_90661d9da1276bbc225c91d937bd1386f2a94a5d.jpeg

[Buttscratcher]

I call BS on that photo for a start.

[ifylofd]

Word is that the WA BHP FIFO flying has basically doubled as a result of social distancing measures and conversion of RPT seat bookings into dedicated charter flights. Think VA has the lions share of that over there, so would be good for that operation. Think perhaps VA has more of the direct charter, whereas Q has more contingent RPT stuff for regional centres in direct support of localities with mine ops. Anyone here on forum actually conducting FIFO in the west? Not too sure on what RIO has done w.r.t. social distancing measures?

Despite the conjecture on the social distancing requirements, and have to agree it appears that FIFO workers must have some special built in immunity to Covid19 :rolleyes:, the continuation of such resource operations was never in question when you look at the royalty contributions that happen w.r.t. state and federal governments budgets.

[-41]

　yes , approximately 114 pax in the 73 with the middle seats blocked

[Rabbitwear]

Aren’t the Big miners mostly owned by foreigners so the advantages to Australia itself are becoming less as time goes !
All the previous governments have sold the Farm and this Corona Virus has just sped up the realisation that Australia is financially ruined , they will blame the Virus but that’s not the real reason.

[Icarus2001]

the continuation of such resource operations was never in question when you look at the royalty contributions that happen w.r.t. state and federal governments budgets.

I think the revenue to state and federal governments gets overstated. By far the biggest source of federal revenue is personal income tax.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x410/overview_piechart_1_8b7667d4ba329abb044f902f505571dccc6cebab .png
WA as the major resource state looks like this.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/230x219/image_0fa8f3fa8dd7bd48fb30097449971a2f9d364bc5.png

So the best way to ensure government revenue streams is have people working and paying tax. So is a small cafe or restaurant, bicycle shop or bar less important to revenue than a minesite? I would say no, expecially since the federal government now has to hand out short term welfare to those businesses that are closed.
If it is okay to get on an aircraft, check in at a terminal and eat at the mine site mess then it must be okay to do the same in a city restaurant with careful consideration to how close tables are to each other.
We know there is a lot of smoke and mirrors here. Just look at school children, they cannot have four friends over to play or celebrate a birthday but they can go to school with hundreds of children and teachers.

[exfocx]

Aren’t the Big miners mostly owned by foreigners so the advantages to Australia itself are becoming less as time goes !
All the previous governments have sold the Farm and this Corona Virus has just sped up the realisation that Australia is financially ruined , they will blame the Virus but that’s not the real reason.

I think you're confusing dividends with royalties and company taxes. An across the board average says that Australian resource companies are said to be 80% foreign owned, so 80% of company dividends go overseas, however company taxes are not affected by this and neither are royalties as paid to the applicable state or the Fed Gov when the resource is offshore and outside state jurisdiction, or however it's worked.

[601]

okay to do the same in a city restaurant

Would you know who and where from you are sitting near to at a city restaurant?
On a mine site, you would most likely know.

[ifylofd]

I think the revenue to state and federal governments gets overstated. By far the biggest source of federal revenue is personal income tax.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x410/overview_piechart_1_8b7667d4ba329abb044f902f505571dccc6cebab .png
WA as the major resource state looks like this.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/230x219/image_0fa8f3fa8dd7bd48fb30097449971a2f9d364bc5.png

So the best way to ensure government revenue streams is have people working and paying tax. So is a small cafe or restaurant, bicycle shop or bar less important to revenue than a minesite? I would say no, expecially since the federal government now has to hand out short term welfare to those businesses that are closed.
If it is okay to get on an aircraft, check in at a terminal and eat at the mine site mess then it must be okay to do the same in a city restaurant with careful consideration to how close tables are to each other.
We know there is a lot of smoke and mirrors here. Just look at school children, they cannot have four friends over to play or celebrate a birthday but they can go to school with hundreds of children and teachers.

Yeah all well and good, but there is an issue with this assumption, the balance of numbers, whereby your diagrams clearly illustrate, that a very few workers - namely mining and resource workers, (comparatively) pull way above their weight in the BIG picture / scheme of things. Simple to see that is why the pressure has been on to create continuity of supply for this part of the economy, and has just been mentioned here, A LOT easier to implement controls than say, in a food court at a shopping center employing people.