Post-virus: Unsafe, rusty pilots?

[aerobus123]

Do you believe that we'll see a rush of incidents and accidents post-Coronavirus as pilots who have been on the couch for several months, perhaps more than half year, return to flying? Do you think regulators will mandate any special additional training??

[giggitygiggity]

We will require the legally required training. I doubt we'd see any spike in incidents. I imagine people will be flying with viggor as they've been grounded for so long and are happy to have their jobs.

[wiggy]

Do you think regulators will mandate any special additional training??

You mean the sort of special additional/extended training most regulators already require post extended absence and as a result of which many airlines already have details tucked away in their operations manuals (Ops Manual D >Recency> Retraining Requirements in our case).

It usually gets used when pilots return to the line after time off due to things such as pregnancy, extended long term sickness, etc, etc etc.

[ipilot86]

There will be much less incidents and accidents, as there will be much less demand for flights.

[waco]

What flying? Have you any idea the economic consequences of the current situation.

[Smooth Airperator]

Many thousands of pilots around the world work seasonally anyway. I've had a gap of between 6 months and a year about 3 times in my career. It's never been an issue. Of course the company will give you 4-8 hours in a sim anyway.

[FullWings]

It will just mean professional pilots will have to be, errrm, professional about it? The UK CAA have just given a 4-month validity extension to LPC/OPC and it appears medicals will have the same.

I expect recency requirements will be flexed but if not, you can get a surprising number of pilots “recent” in the space of a normal detail. As above, your OM D will say exactly how.

[flocci_non_faccio]

What flying? Have you any idea the economic consequences of the current situation.

You don’t have any idea either. Nobody really knows. However, I’d say it’s a safe bet that there will still be an aviation industry. It’ll just look very different to the one that existed a month ago.

On the original question: it’s a total non-issue.

[meleagertoo]

Simulator time will be unobtainable for any but a small fraction of the crews they'll need to get started again, but line training will probably be even worse depending on how many sectors everyone needs to get current again. Training Captains are going to be run off their feet as they struggle to get crews current and the process will take quite some time.
The recovery won't be a fast one.

[NoelEvans]

Do you believe that we'll see a rush of incidents and accidents post-Coronavirus as pilots who have been on the couch for several months, perhaps more than half year, return to flying? Do you think regulators will mandate any special additional training??
No and No.

[advent]

It will just mean professional pilots will have to be, errrm, professional about it? The UK CAA have just given a 4-month validity extension to LPC/OPC and it appears medicals will have the same.

I expect recency requirements will be flexed but if not, you can get a surprising number of pilots “recent” in the space of a normal detail. As above, your OM D will say exactly how.
So, I've been unemployed since September... My LPC and medical expires mid April 2021.... Does this mean I can expect an extension to my expiry? Or is this just for those lucky to be employed right now?

15,000 hrs. TRI.. 50 years old etc....

Interested...

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[MCDU2]

Do you believe that we'll see a rush of incidents and accidents post-Coronavirus as pilots who have been on the couch for several months, perhaps more than half year, return to flying? Do you think regulators will mandate any special additional training??

Some professionals amongst us will use the time off to recharge the batteries, spend much needed quality time with the family and heaven forbid catch up on tomes of manuals, FCIs etc. I can assure you that our training departments and management pilots will be using the time to catch up as well and push a load of paper our way. Reading the Ops Part B and refreshing yourself on standard calls and SOPs before you go to work is all that most of us will require. Others will find a bit of armchair flying useful.

[Mister Warning]

I had 12 months off after a head injury. Getting back in to the sim felt no different than after annual leave. It's like riding a bike.

[Mach E Avelli]

Many limits in aviation are arbitrary. An experienced and erstwhile competent pilot is not suddenly incompetent because the calendar clicks over a day, or even 6 months.
The level of retraining required could be scaled to the experience and prior consolidation of each pilot. For a 20000 hour pilot indeed it should be like riding a bike. For a 200 hour pilot more retraining would be a reasonable imposition.

[Superpilot]

Many limits in aviation are arbitrary. An experienced and erstwhile competent pilot is not suddenly incompetent because the calendar clicks over a day, or even 6 months.
The level of retraining required could be scaled to the experience and prior consolidation of each pilot. For a 20000 hour pilot indeed it should be like riding a bike. For a 200 hour pilot more retraining would be a reasonable imposition.

What he said!

[Eric Janson]

So, I've been unemployed since September... My LPC and medical expires mid April 2021.... Does this mean I can expect an extension to my expiry? Or is this just for those lucky to be employed right now?

15,000 hrs. TRI.. 50 years old etc....

Interested...

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My company has been able to extend Licence validity with several different CAAs.

Contact your Licensing authorities and see what they are prepared to do.

[wiggy]

UK CAA Exemption (http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ORS4No1354.pdf)

Released yesterday....

[currawong]

I would venture to suggest that any notion of a "Ready, set, GO!" back to normal ops after say six months is an unlikely proposition.

I do hope to be proven wrong.

Australian CASA have mandated exemptions also, presumably aimed at keeping essential services functioning for the duration.

[Banana Joe]

So, I've been unemployed since September... My LPC and medical expires mid April 2021.... Does this mean I can expect an extension to my expiry? Or is this just for those lucky to be employed right now?

15,000 hrs. TRI.. 50 years old etc....

Interested...

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You should be able to obtain it as you would be unable to do your LPC even if you wanted to pay for it yourself.

[ShyTorque]

Many thousands of pilots around the world work seasonally anyway. I've had a gap of between 6 months and a year about 3 times in my career. It's never been an issue. Of course the company will give you 4-8 hours in a sim anyway.

Of course they will? Really?

[wiggy]

Of course they will? Really?

Depends on the length of absence but some certainly will - I wouldn't describe the syllabus as a "give" but where I am for an extended absence of say, much more than 6 months to a year our Ops D certainly specifies at least one 4 hour refresher sim before launching into a catch up of missed LPCs/OPCs before getting anywhere near the line...

I know of someone where I work who due illness had a >18 month absence and as per the syllabus they had 5 X 4 hour sims before heading off with a LTC for revalidation on the aircraft.

[ShyTorque]

But then again, some of us have never been given any sim training, let alone a refresher. :)

[NoelEvans]

There are so many systems in place to check against 'rusty' pilots that I really don't see this as a problem. And it is not new, many individuals have already been through it (as has been made clear enough in several posts here) and continue to fly safely.

What worries me is the number of 'frazzled' pilots that there could be that could be very unsafe. Pilots who have been worrying about their domestic finances, pilots who have been worrying about health (family, friends or their own), pilots who are worried about their job security, pilots who have found the prolonged isolation at home (the exact opposite of their usual 'lifestyle' of going a long way from home!) to be 'upsetting', pilots who are having domestic difficulties due to being 'cooped up' with families in a way that they are not used to (especially with all the above problems on their minds all the time)... there are many, many other reasons why pilots could end up really 'frazzled' right now. Some managements are concerned about this (I know) which is a good start, while some appear (according to another Thread here) seem to be determined to make things worse.

Decades ago when I was out of work I had advice that "an unemployed pilot needs a mortgage for his phone bill" (in the old days before the relatively very cheap packages now available!). Right now the same probably applies to pilots stuck worrying at home. Get on the phone, talk to each other. Talking doesn't eliminate problems (although sometimes it might) but it can make a problem seem less extreme and finding that you are not the only one with a particular problem can reduce the 'sharpness' of that worry. It can also help to find ways that you hadn't thought of around worries. Go on, talk. We need pilots with clear minds as things get better.

Tell jokes! That helps to lighten things up. Don't worry about 'black' jokes, sometimes in situations that seem 'black' they are the most appropriate jokes (as anyone in certain jobs will be able to confirm!). I'll start here:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x540/bunny_beer_6aca3eb3086ad0fd63a255582a17688d707b1200.jpg

Look after each other. Fly safely.

[zeddb]

Having been through 9/11, SARS, MERS plus general economic mayhem over the last 25 years and 4 redundancies as a result I can only say that I never had any great problem getting back into the saddle. The longest layoff was nearly 18 months the shorter ones felt like longer due to stress. In every case, after a few trips back on the line it was if I had never been away at all. You will be back doing the crossword in no time.

That said, I'm very glad to be in my last few years with kids gone and all major bills paid rather than halfway through with massive outgoings like some of my colleagues, the flip side of that being a wrecked pension and not much time for it to recover. Oh well, it never was an equitable life.

Stay safe, don't spend all day watching the news and try to ignore those who predict apocalypse, doom and disaster, they have no more idea about the eventual outcome than my cat and I get the distinct impression that they are enjoying it.

[Meester proach]

^^^^^^^
what does the cat reckon ?

[ZFT]

Having been through 9/11, SARS, MERS plus general economic mayhem over the last 25 years and 4 redundancies as a result I can only say that I never had any great problem getting back into the saddle. The longest layoff was nearly 18 months the shorter ones felt like longer due to stress. In every case, after a few trips back on the line it was if I had never been away at all. You will be back doing the crossword in no time.

That said, I'm very glad to be in my last few years with kids gone and all major bills paid rather than halfway through with massive outgoings like some of my colleagues, the flip side of that being a wrecked pension and not much time for it to recover. Oh well, it never was an equitable life.

Stay safe, don't spend all day watching the news and try to ignore those who predict apocalypse, doom and disaster, they have no more idea about the eventual outcome than my cat and I get the distinct impression that they are enjoying it.

Wise words.

[zeddb]

what does the cat reckon ?

He reckons the best way through the crisis is to eat everything in sight, have a good sleep, be petted whilst purring loudly and to occasionally stick his head between his legs and inspect his willy.

I've heard worse ideas.

[Well Used]

Does anybody have the official stance on the IAA extension regulations please? My rating expires at the end of the month and I’m wondering what I need to do for the extension to be applied. I have been getting conflicting views from my friends who find themselves in similar positions.

[Global Aviator]

The issue in my opinion will be that it will be rusty crews full stop. That is from the gate agent, push back man, etc, every aspect of the operation will need more caution.

Then the ones at the pointy end, both who have not flown for sometime, also as pointed out throw in potential financial stress.

The cabin crew, same deal.

Passengers, stress of maybe not having seen loved ones for sometime, missed a major milestone, antsy, etc.

So despite what some say, I say yes it’s a pressure cooker of unseen proportion. Swiss cheese will no doubt have many more holes in it and no doubt be larger.

What can be done? Yes be professional but also slow down, bugger the OTP.

[ShyTorque]

I think it will be best if we all just use a good dollop of common sense. Sadly lacking in many areas at the moment.

[Twitter]

As things drag on, the backlog on checks, medicals and licensing increases.
It will take time to get everyone trained up.
And some special rules to get the checkers fit.

[Fluke]

Nothing to do with operational recency but I have heard of another threat to our returning to the flight line. Infected Pilots coming out of ICU having recovered from Corona -19 are being refused their medical certification due to possible lung damage. These are EASA medicals and the results are being contested. Just another hurdle but at least they are alive.

[deltahotel]

Here is the CAA return to work flow chart




https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/Standard_Content/Licences/COVID_exemption/covid%20flow%20chart%20draft%20pdf%2027th%20march.pdf

[Fluke]

Good stuff. Thanks Delta.