TAS Border Control

[nomorecatering]

Is the state of Tasmania constitutionaly able to close its borders. is any state able to do so.

I just did a quick check on NOTAMS, there's no prohibition on flying a private aircraft from any point in mainland to any point in Tasmania. If you don't put a plan in, they won't even know you did it.

[Styx75]

Putin's selling S400 SAM systems to just about anyone these days...

[Squawk7700]

Is the state of Tasmania constitutionaly able to close its borders. is any state able to do so.

I just did a quick check on NOTAMS, there's no prohibition on flying a private aircraft from any point in mainland to any point in Tasmania. If you don't put a plan in, they won't even know you did it.

I had an appointment in Burnie in the morning tomorrow and was going to fly a small single there... the ruling is apparently not excluding essential flight crew. I guess as the pilot I’m good to go! I will have to cancel to play it safe.

Turn off your transponder, iPad, iPhone, OZRunways and Avplan if you do!

Unprecedented times, who would have EVER imagined this and it’s just the start!

[Sunfish]

Unfortunately Squawk is right.

[Pearly White]

I had an appointment in Burnie in the morning tomorrow and was going to fly a small single there... the ruling is apparently not excluding essential flight crew. I guess as the pilot I’m good to go! I will have to cancel to play it safe.

Turn off your transponder, iPad, iPhone, OZRunways and Avplan if you do!
Doesn't sound like a prudent measure for an over-water flight. Good luck with that!

[swells]

Doesn't sound like a prudent measure for an over-water flight. Good luck with that!

sure go for it ... if you land at an regional airport - expect someone to notice, expect someone to make a phone call to police... and yeah you might get away with it perhaps ... you might not too, and you won’t get any sympathy from the Govt who will use their full powers

peoole are scared, it’s not the time to prove a point

[Okihara]

You can always be creative: Transponder off for the crossing, then touch and go at a small CTAF aerodrome, e.g. George Town in order to switch transponder on during the roll and on to Burnie. That's it, methinks.

Of course there will be a telling gap between flights if you look it up on the likes of flight radar but I'd like to think that government is currently busier doing more relevant things than running consistency checks on private GA aircraft.

Obviously, don't ask for SKEDS.

[swells]

You can always be creative: Transponder off for the crossing, then touch and go at a small CTAF aerodrome, e.g. George Town in order to switch transponder on during the roll and on to Burnie. That's it, methinks.

Of course there will be a telling gap between flights if you look it up on the likes of flight radar but I'd like to think that government is currently busier doing more relevant things than running consistency checks on private GA aircraft.

Obviously, don't ask for SKEDS.

posts like this make me want you to have an engine failure enroute

[Okihara]

Well that is not a very nice thing to say, swells.

[cowl flaps]

posts like this make me want you to have an engine failure enroute

Lighten up, .. you goose.:rolleyes:

[Asturias56]

Putin's selling S400 SAM systems to just about anyone these days...
:ok: like it................

[ZAZ]

Must be real important meeting make sure you are not dead on time.
FYi just looked at FR24 dozens of flights inbound to Melbourne from many carriers, cant be all freighters.
t

[swells]

Well that is not a very nice thing to say, swells.
well if you’re gonna promote disabling safety features which are used to assist aircraft who cross bass strait routinely ... in order to attempt to go against what the state is doing ... even in jest, it’s not on

[Dora-9]

Doesn't our constitution provide for "free and unfettered trade between the states"? Like nomorecatering, this one raised doubts of the legality of this move...

[Sunfish]

Trade? You selling your body? Goods can move just not people.

[Office Update]

Queensland Premier has just closed the Northern Territory to Queensland border!
(Saturday Cairns Post newspaper)

[Lookleft]

The states closed their borders during the Spanish Flu pandemic in 1919/1920 so there is precedent. As the current restrictions show medical emergency trumps free and unfettered trade.

[Squawk7700]

They aren’t stopping you flying there, you just have to isolate for 14 days... unless I’m mistaken on that.

[Sunfish]

ScoMo is applying his marketing knowledge called “the Overton window”.

This is the range of policies that are possible at any given time:

‘A given policy is :-

Unthinkable, then

Radical, then

Acceptable,

Sensible,

Popular and finally

Policy.

For example we started with “no we won’t close our borders”, “well only to the Chinese”, “fourteen day voluntary quarantine”, “no europeans”, and after one or two more steps, “no foreigners and don’t leave Australia”.

Then “keep everything open”, “work from home”, “500 max”, “100 max”, “four square meters”, and now “maybe suburban lockdowns.”

That should tell you that we will be at total lockdown by the end of next weekend.

The Overton window approach is required to try and prevent the general population from panicking which would do more damage than Coronavirus.

[Stickshift3000]

I think he’s actually started listening to the experts for once on this issue instead of making his usual smart ar$e response.

Edit: I agree that further restrictions will be in place in a week.

[zanthrus]

Scummo can get stuffed! Life should go on. Steepen the curve and get this over with quicker.

[Squawk7700]

Check NOTAMS for Flinders Island tomorrow. Strict entry requirements including flights from mainland Tasmania!

[Capt Fathom]

YFLI . PPR from 19th Mar to 22nd Mar.

Is there more to come?

[Asturias56]

Is it possible the border closures are just a reflection of a common sense approach, and even if the resources are not necessarily there to police it, it is a sound policy to restrict infection? i.e. Use your own common sense in line with why it is being done?


Listening to teh BBC this morning they had a doctor on from Bergamo in Italy (he has the virus)

"This is not treatable by medical means. We have no inoculations, no injection, no medicine that stops this virus yet. Only isolation will stop or slow the spread"

[Squawk7700]

YFLI . PPR from 19th Mar to 22nd Mar.

Is there more to come?

All entry is likely to be via YFLI.

[Sunfish]

Bergamo is one of my favourite cities - at least the old part. This is where Brembo brakes come from - the Brembo river runs past Bergamo. Such a tragedy.

[Okihara]

well if you’re gonna promote disabling safety features which are used to assist aircraft who cross bass strait routinely ... in order to attempt to go against what the state is doing ... even in jest, it’s not on
I bet you're fun at parties.

[Alice Kiwican]

Queensland Premier has just closed the Northern Territory to Queensland border!
(Saturday Cairns Post newspaper)

Actually NT government closing borders from 1600 24th March.....

[flywatcher]

Okihara, don’t bother coming to Tasmania, we don’t want you.

[Okihara]

Okihara, don’t bother coming to Tasmania, we don’t want you.
Actually you're pretty funny too. You guys cousins? Or more than that?

[De_flieger]

Well that is not a very nice thing to say, swells.
It's not a very nice thing to say, but talking about how best to evade the infection control measures being put in place to try and slow a pandemic that has already killed thousands isn't a very nice thing to do either.

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Flightaware showing arrival of a Sharp Metro from Essendon and Launceston today.

[flywatcher]

Actually you're pretty funny too. You guys cousins? Or more than that?
You are more disgusting with every post. You should have a long hard look at yourself.

[Squawk7700]

The current YFLI NOTAM should end tomorrow and the new requirements for entry promulgated. Essential flight crew only and you need to be part of an essential service if you’re a passenger. They aren’t messing around with it.

[swells]

The current YFLI NOTAM should end tomorrow and the new requirements for entry promulgated. Essential flight crew only and you need to be part of an essential service if you’re a passenger. They aren’t messing around with it.

The flinders island NOTAM is an overreaction, but in which the ARO thought they were doing the right thing - but no, and this is fear related ... it is what it is - and it should / will be withdrawn

Where as Okihara ... go lick a cruise ship or something you goose

[sprocket check]

The Overton window approach is required to try and prevent the general population from panicking which would do more damage than Coronavirus.

This method is also used to prevent revolutions and public uprising as well as implement any draconian or freedom restrictive policy on the subjects. Sometimes they take longer and with smaller steps...

[Sunfish]

Nothing prevents you overflying king island and landing somewhere in Tasmania. What happens then is a different matter.

[Capt Fathom]

Check NOTAMS for Flinders Island tomorrow. Strict entry requirements including flights from mainland Tasmania!

Still waiting!
I’m sure your source is correct! Just the timing is somewhat lacking. Maybe tomorrow!

[Squawk7700]

The flinders island NOTAM is an overreaction, but in which the ARO thought they were doing the right thing - but no, and this is fear related ... it is what it is - and it should / will be withdrawn


In case I wasn’t clear, to fly into Flinders Island you will have to land at Whitemark and get cleared and then fly on to any of the other strips on the island. You can’t go direct to the smaller strips.

Same goes when flying in from mainland Tasmania.

The above is not relevant for flying into mainland / the big island Tasmania.

[Aussie Bob]

PRIOR PERMISSION REQUIRED FOR ALL ITINERANT FLT LANDING AT FLINDERS
ISLAND AIRPORT
24/7 CTC: AD REPORTING OFFICER (PRIMARY) TEL: 0429 813 929 OR AD OPS
OFFICER (SECONDARY) TEL: 0448 953 514
FROM 03 190342 TO 03 222200 EST

Have I missed something Squawk? Where is the NOTAM saying you can't say land at.... name an ALA? The island is covered in them.

[swells]

In case I wasn’t clear, to fly into Flinders Island you will have to land at Whitemark and get cleared and then fly on to any of the other strips on the island. You can’t go direct to the smaller strips.

Same goes when flying in from mainland Tasmania.

The above is not relevant for flying into mainland / the big island Tasmania.

that is the intent but that isn’t enforceable through a NOTAM

[Asturias56]

A few arrests - and the social firestorm that will follow - will solve the issue..............

[Okihara]

It's not a very nice thing to say, but talking about how best to evade the infection control measures being put in place to try and slow a pandemic that has already killed thousands isn't a very nice thing to do either.
Seriously mate, you just can't have the government preach social distancing as THE solution to this health crisis and tell GA pilots that they shouldn't fly solo around right now. Isn't flying solo the royal form of social distancing? And isn't this THE best time to do that long nav that you've been postponing for far too long? Which one of you hasn't had the thought cross their mind? Be honest. YES, it definitely is, and yes, by all means, pack your tent and fly away, if you can. Just resist the temptation to lick the bowser handle, but that kinda goes without saying hopefully.

If all state borders are becoming shut, then my heart goes out to fellow ACT pilots.

You are more disgusting with every post. You should have a long hard look at yourself.
Look buddy, it seems like a real challenge for you but trust me, it's not good for your blood pressure so just relax for a moment. I just offered a theoretical albeit illegal way of crossing the strait, and camouflage it. I didn't say it was smart. I didn't say do it, nor would I ever. There was nothing serious about it, hopefully that's within grasp of anyone with a double digit IQ, even those with pilot licences. And hopefully you didn't come to PPRuNe to find truth and guidance. No disrespect but take a look around, there's a lot of entertaining blabla by many nonexperts and clear-sky Sunday VFR blokes. And that's fine. Still, your bright bulb mate (or cousin) is apparently the one who didn't get it and who escalated this by wishing that I have an engine failure enroute for trying (hello!?)– which I hope we can all agree that this is a bit of an extreme reaction, even for something posted on PPRuNe.

Would he have said that face to face? Probably not. But writing this here anonymously on PPRuNe, no biggie, hey??

So go on mate, heed your own advice and have a long hard look at yourself. I'm doing just fine.

Where as Okihara ... go lick a cruise ship or something you goose
Oh boy, you're cracking every joke in the book :ugh:

Truce?

[601]

I didn't say it was smart. I didn't say do it, nor would I ever

Why then did you bring it up in the first place??

[Okihara]

Why then did you bring it up in the first place??
Did you also ask ScoMo?

[Lead Balloon]

If I fly from an ALA in Victoria to one of the many ALA’s in Tasmania, take a pee against a tree, jump back in and return to the ALA in Victoria, what’s the health risk? What law/s do I break (other than public urination)?

[Squawk7700]

If I fly from an ALA in Victoria to one of the many ALA’s in Tasmania, take a pee against a tree, jump back in and return to the ALA in Victoria, what’s the health risk? What law/s do I break (other than public urination)?

As long as you don’t go outside close proximity of the aircraft, you’re all good (apparently). Essential aircrew is fine. Presumably any pilot is essential, however your purpose for being there must be of an essential nature.

I believe they are covering this under laws around bio-security hazards. Not unlike fruit fly.

[Sunfish]

Urination is essential, at least at my age.

[swells]

25 March 2020

Michael Ferguson, Minister for Infrastructure and TransportPrivate airstrips closed to interstate aircraftsTo keep Tasmanians safe against the spread of COVID-19, aeroplanes and aircrafts that commence their flight outside of Tasmania are prohibited from landing on private airstrips in the state.

It is absolutely crucial everyone adheres to all the restrictions that are in place to reduce the threat of this virus.

Our messages are necessarily crystal clear:


Do not travel to Tasmania unless you are returning home or you are an essential traveller. If you are returning home from interstate, you cannot fly into a private airstrip.
If you are a Tasmanian returning home via the Spirit of Tasmania or on a commercial flight, you must self-isolate for 14 days.

We all need to play our part for the safety of our state, by staying home as much as possible and adhering to the social distancing guidelines.

For more information, visit www.health.tas.gov.au/coronavirus (http://www.health.tas.gov.au/coronavirus)

[swells]

Private airstripsLast Updated: 25 Mar 2020 6:47pmTo keep Tasmanians safe against the spread of COVID-19, aeroplanes and aircrafts that commence their flight outside of Tasmania are prohibited from landing on private airstrips in the state.

This includes Tasmanians returning home from interstate.

Aeroplanes and aircraft cannot land at any place within Tasmania other than at the following airports:


Hobart International (Strachan Street, Cambridge)
Launceston (201 Evandale Road, Western Junction, Launceston)
Devonport (Airport Road, Devonport)
Burnie (3 Airport Street, Wynyard)
King Island (Morrison Avenue, Loorana)
Flinders Island (122 Palana Road, Whitemark)

coronavirus.tas.gov.au/travellers-and-visitors/private-airstrips

[Stationair8]

What about Strahan?

[swells]

or Cambridge !!!!! :8

[Sunfish]

Not sure Tasmania has the constitutional power to make such a ruling for private not for profit flights. They certainly don’t in Victoria.

[Checklist Charlie]

Don't you just love the silliness of banning aircraft arriving at an airport and identifying those airports by their street address.
Standby, I'll just look up my UBD to find where that address is so I can land:ugh:

CC

[Squawk7700]

Not sure Tasmania has the constitutional power to make such a ruling for private not for profit flights. They certainly don’t in Victoria.

As I stated earlier, they can do anything they want under bio security protocols.

[Asturias56]

In an emergency you'll find the Govt can and will do anything they wish

they'll worry about a rap on knuckles from the courts later

[swells]

Not sure Tasmania has the constitutional power to make such a ruling for private not for profit flights. They certainly don’t in Victoria.

maybe / maybe not ... but they’ve done it

[B772]

What about Queenstown, Smithton, St Helens, Waratah and Zeehan ?

[De_flieger]

Not sure Tasmania has the constitutional power to make such a ruling for private not for profit flights. They certainly don’t in Victoria.
They certainly do, Sunny, in Victoria and Tasmania under public health laws. They even have the power to seize and destroy items believed to be a risk to public health, so while I don't believe it would be justifiable or carried out, hypothetically if they had a reasonable belief your aircraft was a threat to public health it could theoretically at least be seized and destroyed.

[swells]

what about queenstown, smithton, st helens, waratah and zeehan ?saint helens (ysth)
c3/20
ad not avbl
exc emerg ops
from 03 260240 to 04 270230 est

[Sunfish]

Flieger, an aircraft at least in Victoria, is a Commonwealth controlled device. The state has no power to do anything to it.

Various states gave up power over aviation circa 1920, prior to Australia signing the Warsaw convention.

Power over commercial airports? Yes. Private airfields? No

[Lead Balloon]

Thank heavens there are rules about this stuff.

Well done the Tasmanian authorities who’ll no doubt be monitoring and ready to: (1) attend any place at which an aircraft lands contrary to authorisation, and (2) arrest and quarantine all POB. Otherwise, the rules would be pretty pointless.

[swells]

I don’t disagree, but its happening

[Sunfish]

You might put the pilot in the slammer, but you can’t touch the aircraft unless you have a Commonwealth injunction. It’s a question of jurisdiction.

[De_flieger]

Flieger, an aircraft at least in Victoria, is a Commonwealth controlled device. The state has no power to do anything to it.

Various states gave up power over aviation circa 1920, prior to Australia signing the Warsaw convention.

Power over commercial airports? Yes. Private airfields? No
Strange, you should tell Tasmania that. They mustn't have got the memo. Or alternatively they have checked with their lawyers and it's entirely legal under those circumstances to do what they have done.

You might put the pilot in the slammer, but you can’t touch the aircraft unless you have a Commonwealth injunction. It’s a question of jurisdiction.
By all means, you are welcome to test that theory. See how it works out for you. The powers in the various public health acts are surprisingly broad, and certainly seem broad enough to cover private airfields and aircraft, particularly when they use phrases discussing their powers, such as:
"require the destruction or disposal of any thing the destruction or disposal of which is necessary to eliminate or reduce the risk to public health;", there isnt an exemption for aircraft just because they are centrally administered from Canberra.

[desert goat]

If you're worried about it being unconsitutional, then by all means go ahead and mount a high court challenge. We will await the outcome with great interest.

[Sunfish]

There are plenty of bureaucrats who claim jurisdiction over all sorts of things all the time, starting with local councils.

The first thing you need to know is that Federal law often trumps state law. Tasmania knows all about that - The Franklin Dam case.

To put it another way. Would an offence be committed if you flew to Tassie and did a touch and go somewhere?

[Okihara]

To put it another way. Would an offence be committed if you flew to Tassie and did a touch and go somewhere?

Nothing seems to preclude a pilot from making a refuel stop at one of the 6 nominated aerodromes and then to proceed to a private airstrip. Burnie or King Island are not PPR so I wonder how effective this measure really is.

[desert goat]

To put it another way. Would an offence be committed if you flew to Tassie and did a touch and go somewhere?

Maybe, maybe not. But why on earth would you want to? It seems a long way to go to practice touch and goes. It's also a long way to go for a holiday, given that nothing much will be open for business when you get there.
Anyway, good luck with it.

[atcnews]

Think you will find that the legislation used is the Tas Emergency Management Act 2006, schedule 1 clause 1.1.b

[Lead Balloon]

And has a declaration of a state emergency been made under s 42 of that Act, and has a State Controller authorised, under s 40, the exercise of the emergency powers?

[atcnews]

Yes. Can't post links but see Tas DHHS website news article dated 19 Mar 20 with the details.

[Sunfish]

So a Tasmanian health inspector could order the destruction of a Qantas VH registered B737 in Tasmania? I don’t think so.

[Lead Balloon]

I think you’re wrong, Sunfish.

It’s just a vehicle like any other vehicle.

Might be different for an ADF F18 or the PM’s VIP jet.

[thorn bird]

When this is all over will I need to apply for a visa to enter Tasmania?
I don't believe there is a Tasmanian embassy on the mainland, where can I apply for one?

[Stationair8]

No thorn bird, just tell them you are married to your sister and they will let you enter the Island.

[desert goat]

When this is all over will I need to apply for a visa to enter Tasmania?
I don't believe there is a Tasmanian embassy on the mainland, where can I apply for one?

This could be Tasmania's chance to shine! I'm sure we could forgive them for all the subsidies and GST revenue we've been sending them for all these years, if they would take all the quarantine cases off our hands and let the productive bits of oz get back to work. It only cost 30 mill or so of everyone's money to build and abandon Pontville......should be able to fit at least one cruise boat's worth into whatever's left of it.

[Sunfish]

The head transplant may be problematic. However if you fly a twin....

[Melbjorn]

Theoretical question to the Tasmanian crowd here: In a [hopefully] hypothetical dystopian scenario where a coronavirus world without vaccine or antiviral medicine becomes the new normal, the federal and state governments offer you a once off opportunity to make a choice between:

Leave Tasmania, never to return again (a.k.a. last chance to emigrate to mainland Australia)

Stay in Tasmania, never to leave again (mainland Australia will allow neither foreigners nor Tasmanians to enter)

It would be also interesting to ask non Tasmanians what they think Tasmanians would answer.

[Mach E Avelli]

As a mainlander who emigrated to Tassie 7 years ago I can state unequivocally that I would take choice 2. above.
If that "dystopian" scenario unfolded, Tasmania could secede and create Utopia.
Benevolent Dictator at the top (me, of course). No CASA, own aircraft registry (for my BBJ) and local licencing system for our 20 pilots. A shipping flag of convenience for revenue. Tax shelter for money laundering (with 10% into my pocket of course).
And big hand outs in aid from Russia and China to buy votes in the U.N. against Australia.

Meantime, anyone who wants to test local authorities versus Commonwealth jurisdiction in an aircraft control issue, try flying here with no prior approval. Your aircraft would be padlocked to a small concrete block while you got led away to a larger one.
A call to your lawyer might get you an early release to a nearby quarantine centre, but it would not have your aircraft unchained. And the Feds would do SFA about it. There are examples of impounded aircraft around Australia for trivial matters such as airport fees in arrears. This would not be regarded as a trivial matter, so Sunny/Okihara don't try it on to prove a point of law!

[Sunfish]

........and take a battery powered angle grinder just in case!

[desert goat]

As a mainlander who emigrated to Tassie 7 years ago I can state unequivocally that I would take choice 2. above.
If that "dystopian" scenario unfolded, Tasmania could secede and create Utopia.
Benevolent Dictator at the top (me, of course). No CASA, own aircraft registry (for my BBJ) and local licencing system for our 20 pilots. A shipping flag of convenience for revenue. Tax shelter for money laundering (with 10% into my pocket of course).
And big hand outs in aid from Russia and China to buy votes in the U.N. against Australia.

Meantime, anyone who wants to test local authorities versus Commonwealth jurisdiction in an aircraft control issue, try flying here with no prior approval. Your aircraft would be padlocked to a small concrete block while you got led away to a larger one.
A call to your lawyer might get you an early release to a nearby quarantine centre, but it would not have your aircraft unchained. And the Feds would do SFA about it. There are examples of impounded aircraft around Australia for trivial matters such as airport fees in arrears. This would not be regarded as a trivial matter, so Sunny/Okihara don't try it on to prove a point of law!

Be sure to foster and promote the local opioid production industry while you're at it. Since you would no longer be subject to Oz export controls, you could sell the product far and wide and then use the proceeds to buy some high-end russian weaponry. That'll come in handy for keeping the mainlanders out, keeping the Taswegians in, and also to stop the Americans from trying to annexe the joint. Can't be too careful, they already tried it once :}

[Sunfish]

Just joking. How do we help the states?

[Okihara]

A call to your lawyer might get you an early release to a nearby quarantine centre, but it would not have your aircraft unchained. And the Feds would do SFA about it. There are examples of impounded aircraft around Australia for trivial matters such as airport fees in arrears. This would not be regarded as a trivial matter, so Sunny/Okihara don't try it on to prove a point of law!
Reading you 5.

[Squawk7700]

It didn’t work all that well for Norfolk.

[harrryw]

I guess it is time for them to reopen Port Arthur.