Flying club ops and Corona virus

[Yammy1300]

I was wondering how "your" flying club is dealing with this current situation?, closing for a while, operating until you are told to close!? Etc etc.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The clubs around me are all still operating for private flying, but the social spaces (cafes, etc.) are closing.

G

[double_barrel]

Ops are normal with a bit of sanitizer slapped around.

Looks like a chance to sneak off and do some flying while 'working from home'.

[TheOddOne]

We're swabbing all surfaces inside the aircraft in between instructional flights. We're checking students are symptom-free. We're swabbing all surfaces in the office and telling visitors to wash their hands before coming in. One issue that's been highlighted - we're using alcohol wipes and 90% alcohol inside the aircraft. Apparently alcohol is REALLY bad news for transparencies. What is everyone else using?

We're planning on carrying on flying training until we're told to stop (or instructors have to self-isolate - one has already, as a precaution due age and underlying issues)

As we're remote from the major population centres, we're thinking that it'll take some time to become prevalent here. We'll see.

TOO

[Yammy1300]

We're swabbing all surfaces inside the aircraft in between instructional flights. We're checking students are symptom-free. We're swabbing all surfaces in the office and telling visitors to wash their hands before coming in. One issue that's been highlighted - we're using alcohol wipes and 90% alcohol inside the aircraft. Apparently alcohol is REALLY bad news for transparencies. What is everyone else using?

We're planning on carrying on flying training until we're told to stop (or instructors have to self-isolate - one has already, as a precaution due age and underlying issues)

As we're remote from the major population centres, we're thinking that it'll take some time to become prevalent here. We'll see.

TOO many thanks 👍

[GAGuy]

I fly in the San Francisco area. Our club is still open but only allowing health/Angel Flight-related activity. No instruction. Unfortunately no solo flights even to maintain currency. The club is looking for a clarification from the authorities on the "shelter-in-place" order to see if solo flights for training, or recreation, are allowed. The club has the usual disinfectant and sanitizers at every corner.

It seems that flying solo, or with someone you share an abode with, is no different from the rule allowing people to drive with the same caveats.

I wonder what this shutdown will do to safety statistics once we all start flying again. We're being told to expect this to last months. If so, lots of rusty pilots.

My daughter us at college right now and says that Gen-Z'ers are calling this the "Bye, Bye Boomer" virus.

[double_barrel]

My daughter us at college right now and says that Gen-Z'ers are calling this the "Bye, Bye Boomer" virus.

Haha! Excellent. This could certainly help to adjust some of the demographic anomalies and take away a lot of the burden of retirees with long-term health needs.

But I agree, solo flying could be done while maintaining social distancing, and should be much more fun without all those pesky commercial aircraft.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Here in BE things are very simple and very clear but not very fun: all flights for training, recreational and sports purposes are forbidden. And all small fields that I know of are effectively closed, at least till early April, but I feel sure those measures will be extended.

(the side comments on the virus outbreak and its effects on demographics are ridiculous. Take a basic course of statistics and you'll see the mortality figures barely rise above the noise bottom of statistics. The damage to the world economy, on the contrary, is going to be big if not devastating - to all of us)

[double_barrel]

(the side comments on the virus outbreak and its effects on demographics are ridiculous. Take a basic course of statistics and you'll see the mortality figures barely rise above the noise bottom of statistics. The damage to the world economy, on the contrary, is going to be big if not devastating - to all of us)


True of course. It was an attempt at humor.
(In case anyone is in any doubt, none of the great 'plagues' or wars of the last few thousand years have caused more than the tiniest blip in the human population growth curve)

[Jan Olieslagers]

It was an attempt at humor. Fair enough, though a bit of emoticon had been helpful. Still, the remark was pointed elsewhere.

[Ebbie 2003]

It goes to remind one that one cannot take it with one when ones goes.

If I get through this I am upgrading the Archer to a Baron 55 one maybe one of those Cessna 337 thingies:)

[clareprop]

We were wintering in France...now, it seems we will be 'springing' and possibly 'summering' as well. All private flying completely shut in line with the enforced lockdown. We live reasonably close to the local strip - silence in the skies similar to 2001.

[sitigeltfel]

We were wintering in France...now, it seems we will be 'springing' and possibly 'summering' as well. All private flying completely shut in line with the enforced lockdown. We live reasonably close to the local strip - silence in the skies similar to 2001.

A private pilot in Brittany has been fined €135 for taking an unauthorised trip..... because he was bored!

https://www.laprovence.com/actu/en-direct/5941820/bretagne-pour-fuir-lennui-du-confinement-il-fait-un-tour-en-avion-et-ecope-dune-amende.html

[clareprop]

A private pilot in Brittany has been fined €135 for taking an unauthorised trip..... because he was bored!

I've just relooked at the attestation. If he'd said 'Going Mad' rather than 'Bored', he might have wriggled out of it under 'Health reasons'... :ooh:

[meleagertoo]

Pretty daft, really. How is going for a flight alone possibly going to affect anyone - virus wise?

[Jan Olieslagers]

Well, at my homefield - which is closed anyway, just like all of my national airspace, except for "essential" flights - there is a house rule that moving a plane in or out of a hangar shall be done by two people, at least, never alone. There are those who think that rule slightly daft, too, but there it is.

[pulse1]

I just took a quick envious look at all those lucky GA types flying in southern UK at the moment. I didn't count them but I had the impression that there were almost as many GA types a there were airliners.

[TheOddOne]

there is a house rule that moving a plane in or out of a hangar shall be done by two people, at least, never alone. There are those who think that rule slightly daft, too, but there it is.

Jan,
We have the same rule. One on the stick, the other watching all around. Too many cases of hangar rash caused by folk trying it solo...

TOO

[The Ancient Geek]

It depends on the layout of the hangar and the way that aircraft are often crammed in. Poor layout and too many aircraft are both recepies for hangar rash. Sadly the high costs of hangarage and the shortage of space means that there is seldom enough space.
Personally I am in favour of individual or T hangars. There are companies who will build a typical light aircraft hangar for around 6-8 thousand pounds but that implies that there is space to build it and that the airfield owner is willing to rent the space at a reasonable price.

[S-Works]

EFATO or a bad landing resulting in injury...... think about it carefully guys......

[double_barrel]

Grrrr. I've effectively just been grounded. The flying school only has 2 a/c, one of which is about to go down for a major service. So to reduce the risk of someone bending the other a/c, they are not allowing low hours PPLs like me to fly solo! They require an instructor on board. That is so !@£$%^&* frustrating! Beautiful weather, empty skies, can't fly. And I can't switch schools as they would require a checkride which is also impossible with the social distancing I am obliged to maintain.

[clareprop]

That is so !@£$%^&* frustrating! Beautiful weather, empty skies, can't fly. And I can't switch schools as they would require a checkride which is also impossible with the social distancing I am obliged to maintain.

Um....have you watched the TV or read the latest news? :O

[robin]

Looking at Flightradar24 on such a day, what a shame. Especially after so many weeks of cack weather.

My shareoplane is away on annual, but I have no idea how long she'll be stuck with the Maintenance Outfit. Now I'm just hoping for rubbish weather so I don't feel too bad.

[snchater]

Well, at my homefield - which is closed anyway, just like all of my national airspace, except for "essential" flights - there is a house rule that moving a plane in or out of a hangar shall be done by two people, at least, never alone. There are those who think that rule slightly daft, too, but there it is.

The owner of my maintenance organisation has a strict “minimum of two people” to move aircraft in his hangar........

He moved my C182 on his own and had to meet the €3.5k hangar rash repair cost. 😡

[joshmcr]

...and thus all the flying schools have as well.

As of last weekend, my flying school was operating but with extra precautions.

Gutting with the gorgeous weather but safety first (and maybe best to avoid press-on-itis)

[GAGuy]

Here in Northern California, our club re-opened today for solo operations only. Family members are not allowed in the aircraft - best I can tell to avoid the optics. No BFR's, training or checkrides. CFI's are hurting, but the pilot community can maintain basic currency and shake some of the rust off.

[Crusher1]

My school, and airfield, closed on Tuesday. I notice Tollerton is closed but open to fuel the Air Ambulance and Western Power helicopters.

[homonculus]

Here in Northern California, our club re-opened today for solo operations only. Family members are not allowed in the aircraft

So I presume you drive to the airfield never needing to refuel, pay tolls, open gates and never break down. Get the aircraft out single handed. Refuel yourself. Go flying without any maintenance or ATC. Never need support and never have an accident. no food or drink.

You clean your aircraft completely including removing floor panels and washing with disinfectant that you have approval for. You have a policy for absorbant surfaces that is approved by a virologist.

The reality is you have a contaminated aircraft and you are so selfish you are requiring other people to break isolation or stay-ay-home and put themselves at risk for your selfish hobby. No wonder the US has overtaken China in cases. Every time you do this another person's risk of dying increases. Here in the UK we are struggling to cope, Young healthy people are dying and many healthcare workers will die - one of my OR nurses died yesterday. The US in some states is far worse and California is one of them. I try not to rant on pprune but may i make an exception here please?

[charliegolf]

So I presume you drive to the airfield never needing to refuel, pay tolls, open gates and never break down. Get the aircraft out single handed. Refuel yourself. Go flying without any maintenance or ATC. Never need support and never have an accident. no food or drink.

You clean your aircraft completely including removing floor panels and washing with disinfectant that you have approval for. You have a policy for absorbant surfaces that is approved by a virologist.

The reality is you have a contaminated aircraft and you are so selfish you are requiring other people to break isolation or stay-ay-home and put themselves at risk for your selfish hobby. No wonder the US has overtaken China in cases. Every time you do this another person's risk of dying increases. Here in the UK we are struggling to cope, Young healthy people are dying and many healthcare workers will die - one of my OR nurses died yesterday. The US in some states is far worse and California is one of them. I try not to rant on pprune but may i make an exception here please?

You may. Just b***er off home and stay there you idiots!

CG

[Slaine]

We're swabbing all surfaces inside the aircraft in between instructional flights. We're checking students are symptom-free. We're swabbing all surfaces in the office and telling visitors to wash their hands before coming in. One issue that's been highlighted - we're using alcohol wipes and 90% alcohol inside the aircraft. Apparently alcohol is REALLY bad news for transparencies. What is everyone else using?

We're planning on carrying on flying training until we're told to stop (or instructors have to self-isolate - one has already, as a precaution due age and underlying issues)

As we're remote from the major population centres, we're thinking that it'll take some time to become prevalent here. We'll see.

TOO

What do you mean by "swabbing"?, swabbing is used to describe the procedure for taking samplesfor testing for the virus which you are not doing, don't wait till you are told use some sense and stop now.
Oh and stop implying you are taking measures you aren't..FFS

[Jan Olieslagers]

Some of these comments are all too harsh, though perhaps well-meant. As it is, I could drive to my homefield, get the plane out of the hangar and ready to fly, take a nice tour in this glorious weather, land at homefield, park and into the hangar, all without ever needing to meet anybody, far less coming with the 5' (1,5 m) "personal distance" that is the new norm over here. Collecting fuel can be done (and normally is) without anybody else near; same would go for road tolls if any applied here.

Yes that is good as long as all goes well, yes. If anything goes wrong I'll need to invoke ambulance, fire brigade, whoever, yes yes. All of those I might just as well need to invoke at home. No difference, really.

[TheOddOne]

What do you mean by "swabbing"?

For the avoidance of doubt, the term swab is of Dutch origin and means a mop, as in 'swabbing down the desks'. In this context, it meant using such materials as recommended and specifically sold for the purpose for the destruction of virus material on hard surfaces. I think the term 'swab' has been re-purposed, as words often are, by specialists to mean something slightly different, in this case, taking medical samples for analysis.
In this fast-moving scenario, as of 23rd March, the date of my previous post, we were following the approved practices. Actually, that was the last day we flew anyway and since then we've ceased all operations, in accordance with current requirements.

TOO

[Slaine]

the term swab is of Dutch origin and means a mop, as in 'swabbing down the desks'.


TOO[/QUOTE]

I think you mean DECKS and its a nautical term. I also think you know full well what the term implies in the context of this discussion
I am glad you have ceased under pressure

Jan, I could do the same, but I wouldnt even consider it just to satisfy my own desire for a jolly, I guess everyone has a different idea of what constitutes selfish behaviour .

[Jan Olieslagers]

Well, you are welcome to try and convince me that there would be any degree of improperly selfish behaviour in taking a stroll through the skies. People are doing the exact same thing here on their motorbikes, and I can see no issue with that, either. And I rode some 8 km on my push bike this afternoon, too. Selfish? How so?

Seeing no counter-arguments, I can only appreciate the positive effect of a bit of recreation to my mental health, already much challenged these days, if only by having to do all my professional meetings by phone/internet/skype. Mind you, authorities are actively encouraging moving around for recreation, though they rightly insist on doing so in solitude. One silly minister wanted to limit recreational cycling to some perimeter around one's home but that has been averted.

Above all, let it be clear that the whole discussion is somewhat moot: my airspace and my aerodrome are closed by law, and I will surely abide by the law.

[on a linguistical sidenote: a native speaker of Dutch, and fascinated by linguistics, I suppose the Dutch root referred to is the verb "zwabberen", a cleaning technique which was indeed standard on ships; though not limited to marine use]

[Pilot DAR]

Wow, a few posters are pretty harsh!

We are a community here. Yes, we should mentor best behaviour, but no need to be mean about it!

I agree that social isolation should be everyone's prime objective. And, everyone is entirely welcomed to not do something that they feel puts them self at risk. If you don't want to fly a plane, for fear that the last pilot might have contaminated it, don't fly the plane! If local rules say don't drive anywhere, including the airport, than don't drive anywhere.

For some pilots, an airplane, and the opportunity to fly it, may be possible without involving any other person. If so, and doing so conforms to all of the local rules, that becomes a personal decision. Certainly where I fly, I'd likely not encounter anyone on a normal day, and fewer people than that in these circumstances. I don't plan to do any flying which at all involves interacting with other people directly, until the health rules say it's okay. But, I do plan to fly to maintain my skills, keep the rust out of my planes, and just ease my mind a little....

[Islandlad]

​​​​
​​I don't plan to do any flying which at all involves interacting with other people directly, until the health rules say it's okay. But, I do plan to fly to maintain my skills, keep the rust out of my planes, and just ease my mind a little....

1. If something goes wrong? In the air. And the way to and from.

2. Minor or Major event leading to the need for medical intervention?

You could easily be bringing 100 people into close contact with each sub group.

Still going flying?

[Jan Olieslagers]

As I pointed out before: it is equally possible to require assistance when staying at home. There is not a single zero-risk option except euthanasia. Which requires assistance, too, to do it legally.

[magyarflyer]

went flying Saturday
great flying weather front just went thru no one around 30 mile radius spent an hour just doodling and enjoying flying at low altitude no one contacted tower during that time, adsb traffic on my garmin 40 mile radius showed 3 other airplanes around. Unfortunately I learned that a 3/4 scale P51 crashed later near the airport. I spoke with the owner the day before, he is in 80s and this project took his entire time for 5 years, test pilot killed. Only restrictions are those coming from multiple states have to report to FBO and placed on quarantine (New York, Louisiana, New Jersey, Washington, Michigan).

[Islandlad]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
​​​​​Still going flying?

As I pointed out before: it is equally possible to require assistance when staying at home. There is not a single zero-risk option except euthanasia. Which requires assistance, too, to do it legally.
Don't be silly. The order of magnitude is quite different. A fall at home v a crash across an interstate.

And euthanasia puts others at risk! Before and after you have gone.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Don't be silly. Allow me to insist on politeness and good manners. We can argue, we can differ, ok, but than can be done in a civilised way.

The order of magnitude is quite different. I fully agree to that: I have never yet needed emergency services with my flying, though I have been through a couple of incidents. I do have needed them elsewhere, though, at home and at work and on the road. So yes, the order of magnitude is different indeed: fully in favour of going flying.

As for a crash across an interstate.: that can usually be avoided, with a bit of good sense (cruise high enough? avoid aerodromes enclosed by built-up areas or busy roads?) But if things do go pear-shaped, it can just as well occur outside this corona crisis, with equal risks to the emergency services. I agree we should avoid over-burdening them, they are indeed under high pressure as it is; but then again, with a bit of careful planning major catastrophes can be excluded.

[Pilot DAR]

Happily, I have my planes and fuel at home, so zero social interaction to go flying. I just stay very close to home, so as to not involve anyone else.

Having been a first responder for 27 years, I am well aware of the extra burden these services are carrying now. So I think about how not to burden the system. I will carefully prevent crashing my plane, having a heart attack, or injuring myself cutting firewood. The current circumstances certainly have my thinking how to not need public assistance!

[shiningstarofcheso]

Wow. Please get how serious this is and stay inside.

Last time I checked recreational flying is not essential and flight schools do not employ key workers. Leaving your house to either is against the instructions.

I get the idea you can fly from a field without any social interaction, but every flight is not risk free and you needing ICU because of an engine failure is right now a really poor decision on your part.

A real shame for a hobby full of methodical, logical people that some think it’s ok to still fly. Stay at home, follow the rules, read up on the theory, teach others online, challenge yourselves in different ways for a few months. You might save someone else’s life.

[Pilot DAR]

Yeah, happily I have flown both airplanes recently enough that they can sit for a while as the world sees how this goes.

In the mean time;

teach others online, challenge yourselves in different ways for a few months.

Yes! I have been very surprised at how little discussion there has been in this forum recently, with seemingly excess resource of experienced pilots available to answer questions. This would be an excellent time for those newer pilots with questions to pose them....

[Capt Kremmen]

According to a Govt. spokesman, private (what they describe as recreational) flying must now stop in GB. As usual they make some exceptions. The CAA have more detail.

[Dave Gittins]

My medical expires in 4 weeks. Before seeing the AME, I need to see the cardio man in Wimpole street. Central London and a 30 mile train and tube trip - a strict no-no

So medical will expire and as this is likely to last for 3 - 6 months .. I guess I'll be looking to revalidate and get a medical in October if I'm lucky, just in time for winter.. Fortunately my SEP is valid until Jan 2022.

Just hope my club at Redhill is still about when we recommence..

[homonculus]

The CAA have extended the validity for Class 1 medicals and checks for commercial licenses...I think by 6 months. An announcement on class 2 and PPL licenses is expected.

[Flying Tooth Driller]

The CAA have extended the validity for Class 1 medicals and checks for commercial licenses...I think by 6 months. An announcement on class 2 and PPL licenses is expected.

Hmm.... I've read and re-read the CAA docs on this, and it seems to me that they are always referring to Part ORO only, not anyone else. It's all "subject to" in various paragraphs, which then seem to refer to Part ORO only. I may have interpreted this all incorrectly, but it could have been made a bit clearer.

[ak7274]

According to a Govt. spokesman, private (what they describe as recreational) flying must now stop in GB. As usual they make some exceptions. The CAA have more detail.

Not specifically banned, as you can see GA are being good little boys and the government don't see a need to enforce a ban.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation

[Reverserbucket]

ak7274 - are you sure that's what it says?

Correct FTD, as homunculus says, the ORS for Part-ORA and specifically for GA is not yet published.

I was interested to read GAGuy's comment about his college age daughter saying that 'Gen-Z'er's' are apparently calling this the "Bye, Bye Boomer" virus which, although I'm sure meant as a tongue-in-cheek remark, it's interesting to reflect that the about to be opened Nightingale Hospital in London's ExCel centre is likely to be occupied by largely younger patients - we have 19 & 20 year olds with no previous history of diabetes, asthma, obesity or other indicators as seen in most older victims currently in the big London hospitals. The reality is that this is now affecting all age groups and theories as to what we thought might have been strong indicators of further chronic deterioration are now largely redundant. I really do hope the younger generation understand this and heed the Government's advice.

[ak7274]

I assume that is what it says, after all it is from the government.
You can see what it says yourself. Aiui the reason for not banning GA absolutely is that the government won't need to pass legislation to repeal a ban. As GA is being so well self disciplined, they see no need.
Please read it.
Edited to add.

Yup, just read it...... Again and that's what it said.

[Pilot DAR]

As flying is not a great idea right now, it occurred to me today that some overdue runway maintenance is a good idea! So I trenched in some drainage pipe in with the excavator this afternoon. By the time it's socially right to fly, I should have grass growing over the trench! Perfect! Now, on to the annual inspection....

[Capt Kremmen]

Not specifically banned, as you can see GA are being good little boys and the government don't see a need to enforce a ban.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation

At no point in my comment did I mention that GA in GB was 'banned'. Far from it. The Govt. and the CAA have asked that all GA or, as they put it, recreational flying, should cease for the foreseeable future.

[ak7274]

Sorry. I must have misunderstood the word "must".

[Capt Kremmen]

Sorry. I must have misunderstood the word "must".
That's ok. Easily done.

[GAGuy]

So I presume you drive to the airfield never needing to refuel, pay tolls, open gates and never break down. Get the aircraft out single handed. Refuel yourself. Go flying without any maintenance or ATC. Never need support and never have an accident. no food or drink.

You clean your aircraft completely including removing floor panels and washing with disinfectant that you have approval for. You have a policy for absorbant surfaces that is approved by a virologist.

The reality is you have a contaminated aircraft and you are so selfish you are requiring other people to break isolation or stay-ay-home and put themselves at risk for your selfish hobby. No wonder the US has overtaken China in cases. Every time you do this another person's risk of dying increases. Here in the UK we are struggling to cope, Young healthy people are dying and many healthcare workers will die - one of my OR nurses died yesterday. The US in some states is far worse and California is one of them. I try not to rant on pprune but may i make an exception here please?

Good grief, lots of judgement here.

Let me address your concerns one at a time. I've flown once in the last month to maintain currency, which in California is designated a necessary activity. I live 3 miles from the airfield and don't interact with anyone there or back. The planes are on tie-downs out in the open. The field is a designated critical resource, so fully staffed whether I show up or not. The gas truck is sitting mostly idle. AJ the fueler and I stay a good 6' apart. He's pretty bored and was looking for someone to say Hi to. I disinfected the plane myself per club guidelines and with the club materials. I do admit I didn't pull up the floorboards or dismantle the engine. By my quick calculation, the plane has flown maybe 3 hours in the last 3 weeks. Not really spring break in Ft. Lauderdale.

[Timothy Farnham]

closed as of a few weeks ago "in line with gov. advice!"
:(

[Fl1ingfrog]

Within the latest Skywise newsletter the CAA draw the distinction between "private" and "recreational" flying. Within GA there are many "private" flights that are not commercial and and may well be undertaken by key workers including some farmers, engineers etc as well as health care workers. Much safer than sharing public transport.