Jetstar flight making an emergency landing at Mildura

[segfault]

A Jetstar flight is making an emergency landing at Mildura around 0115 UTC.

Cause is given as smoke in the cabin.

I heard about this from rural ambulance VHF.

[RatsoreA]

JST660, fire in cargo hold, mayday. Heard on center.

[Airbubba]

From FR24:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1419x666/jq660_698a9be714eca24a9fb502dece53ea15bf37379e.jpg

[Iron Bar]

Good work crew, Rex boys will look after you.

[dr dre]

Looks like they were originally diverting to ADL but changed their minds any went for MIA.

Good job

[Signature]

Excellent work!

[Office Update]

Why not Broken Hill for an emergency landing? closer than Mildura.
Not a criticism; but just asking the obvious question

[junior.VH-LFA]

Why not Broken Hill for an emergency landing? closer than Mildura.
Not a criticism; but just asking the obvious question

Because one has regular infrastructure for RPT Jet traffic and one doesn’t.

[Led Zeppelin]

Also, elapsed time for descent wise, Mildura was probably the better choice.

[mmm345]

Does anyone have the liveatc recording of the communication. Thanks in advance

[AerialPerspective]

I see the scum at NEWS have a headline "Aircraft Accident" - they really are the bottom of the gene pool when it comes to so-called journalism. Absolutely ZERO morals or concern for someone who might stumble across their webpage who has a friend relative on the flight...

[5th officer]

A Jetstar flight has been diverted to Mildura due to a fire in the cargo hold, no one seriously hurt? Source 3AW News.

[deja vu]

Why not Broken Hill for an emergency landing? closer than Mildura.
Not a criticism; but just asking the obvious question

Its a fair question to be sure. The crew are the only ones to have all the facts and take what they consider is the best option.

[MELKBQF]

Not sure if it is still the case, there used to be a set of A320 stairs and a tow bar at MQL owned by NZ in case they had to divert their AKL-ADL flight.

[George Glass]

On board fire is “ land at nearest available airport.” Its as bad as it gets. Stairs , maintenance etc. have nothing to do with it.

[neville_nobody]

YBHI may not be approved for the aircraft, emergency or otherwise.

[George Glass]

Jetstar Ops. Manual will list Main , Alternate , Adequate and Emergency Airports. No guess work required.

[knackered IV]

So was it a fire warning or actual smoke?

[Colonel_Klink]

It is worth pointing out that there would be a heap of airlines flying with very distracted crews at the moment - these are unprecedented times that are going to put significant strain on a lot of pilots and their families.

So kudos to the two up the front who appear to have handled this very well - external distractions and all.

We must all strive to remain focussed at the job at hand - if you’ve got too much going on, make a phone call and talk to someone, and if need be use some personal leave.

Most importantly, look after your colleagues. The person sitting next to you might just have to get something off their chest - that might be enough to make a world of difference.

Take care everyone - and again, well done to the crew involved here.

[Ken Borough]

Onya, Colonel. :D There are many here who need to STFU.

[George Glass]

What the Colonel said.....

[Double_Clutch]

Has anyone asked Paragraph737 for his “expert” opinions in how this was handled?

[Angle of Attack]

Broken Hill May have been physically closer but by the time you do a high speed descent and prepare for landing I’m guessing YMIA was just as close time wise, that flight radar track is zoomed in pretty close regarding jet flying speeds.

[turbantime]

Well said Colonel. Too many non-pilots on here revelling in the destruction of the industry.

We all need to look after each other and not just pilots but also our cabin and ground crew brethren.

Well done to the JQ pilots, a fire warning is one of the most serious things to deal with on an aircraft.

[Green.Dot]

It is worth pointing out that there would be a heap of airlines flying with very distracted crews at the moment - these are unprecedented times that are going to put significant strain on a lot of pilots and their families.

So kudos to the two up the front who appear to have handled this very well - external distractions and all.

We must all strive to remain focussed at the job at hand - if you’ve got too much going on, make a phone call and talk to someone, and if need be use some personal leave.

Most importantly, look after your colleagues. The person sitting next to you might just have to get something off their chest - that might be enough to make a world of difference.

Take care everyone - and again, well done to the crew involved here.

So true. Well done to the crew!

[Iron Bar]

Mildura wasn’t listed in JQ Ops manual as Emergency or Alternate, may have changed now. But in these circumstances it wouldn’t matter anyway.

[machtuk]

Fascilities is what it's all about when making a decision like that, PUC has the ultimate final say when a May Day is declared, all rules are are out the window! Mildura far better all round for services during and after the event. Goodcwork guys considering the pressure pilots are under at the moment. -:)

[givemewings]

If one of the crew has past experience into that airport and not the other, may also be a factor - I recall UPS6 trying for Dubai because they knew the airport and didn't want to be floundering around in a new airport environment by going to somewhere only fractionally closer / "better" looking

[Lookleft]

Mildura wasn’t listed in JQ Ops manual as Emergency or Alternate

What year are you talking about?

[20driver]

If one of the crew has past experience into that airport and not the other, may also be a factor - I recall UPS6 trying for Dubai because they knew the airport and didn't want to be floundering around in a new airport environment by going to somewhere only fractionally closer / "better" looking

The Air Canada Gimli glider 767 that ran out of fuel they landed @ Gimli even though the airport was closed and was a drag stip. One of the pilots had done some training there and remembered the place.
You never know where you might end up going back to, alway pay your bar tab!

[rodney rude]

"Facilities is what it's all about when making a decision like that"

I beg to differ strongly Mach. When on fire the prime consideration is a suitable strip of tarmac. You would be a lunatic to disregard tarmac in the pursuit of facilities when on fire. Get the pax on the ground then get em out. In this case, and I'm not saying at all that YMIA was a wrong decision, but what did YMIA offer above Broken Hill - no fire facilities at each place. In terms of distance to run vs descent time, YMIA was fine. Sure, all the ancillaries for pax handling are great once the shouting stops, but that's a convenience as opposed to a life saver.

[Iron Bar]

What year, 16’ - 17’? But that’s probably changed, JQ crew will know. At least 2 JQ 320’s have diverted there previously.

[Forced Labor]

Just to make sure everyone understands what the "nearest suitable airport" means - it's also time to get to a suitable airport and not just the distance.

For example - overhead an airport at FL 350 that will handle the aircraft, but a better, more suitable airport is 70 nm away. The descent time from FL 350 for both airports is approx the same, so the airport 70 nm away is in fact the more suitable.

It's the crew on the day who make that assessment.

[Savage175]

Depends a lot on what airports are in the FM database and what charts are carried onboard. Not sure what JQ 320s carry but making an emergency landing at an airport that you have no onboard info about certainly increases crew workload significantly.

[George Glass]

Machtuk , let me know which operator you fly for ( if you fly at all ) so that I can avoid it. An aircraft on fire or with persistent smoke in the cabin MUST land at the nearest available airport. That airport may be an emergency airport that has been assessed as meeting the minimum operational standards for landing. Other “nice to have” facilities are completely irrelevant. An out of control fire may even require a ditching or out-landing. Its worst case but you’re gunna die otherwise.

Extract from a major manufacturers checklist;

“It must be stressed that for smoke that continues or a fire that cannot be positively confirmed to be completely extinguished, the earliest possible descent, landing, and evacuation must be done.
If a smoke, fire or fumes situation becomes uncontrollable, the Flight Crew should consider an immediate landing. Immediate landing implies immediate diversion to a runway. However, in a severe situation, the Flight Crew should consider an overweight landing, a tailwind landing, an off-airport landing, or a ditching.”

[Lookleft]

"charts" are all on the Ipad so if it is in the FMS database it is in the ipad. Even without the approach plate all the info regarding airport elevation, runway length and the approach itself are all in the FMS.

[deja vu]

YBHI may not be approved for the aircraft, emergency or otherwise.


I'm sure the Hudson River wasn't approved either, to hell with "approval" when you are on fire.

[machtuk]

Machtuk , let me know which operator you fly for ( if you fly at all ) so that I can avoid it. An aircraft on fire or with persistent smoke in the cabin MUST land at the nearest available airport. That airport may be an emergency airport that has been assessed as meeting the minimum operational standards for landing. Other “nice to have” facilities are completely irrelevant. An out of control fire may even require a ditching or out-landing. Its worst case but you’re gunna die otherwise.

Extract from a major manufacturers checklist;

“It must be stressed that for smoke that continues or a fire that cannot be positively confirmed to be completely extinguished, the earliest possible descent, landing, and evacuation must be done.
If a smoke, fire or fumes situation becomes uncontrollable, the Flight Crew should consider an immediate landing. Immediate landing implies immediate diversion to a runway. However, in a severe situation, the Flight Crew should consider an overweight landing, a tailwind landing, an off-airport landing, or a ditching.”

ha ha, I'll let you sweat on that one seeing as it bothers you a lot -)
you'll never whether I fly or not, now that's gotta hurt! -:)

[Trevor the lover]

That's A nice nothing reply to very valid points Mach. Is that really the best you've got?

[Trevor the lover]

Savage 175, spoken like a true child of the magenta line.

[Savage175]

"charts" are all on the Ipad so if it is in the FMS database it is in the ipad. Even without the approach plate all the info regarding airport elevation, runway length and the approach itself are all in the FMS.

That's not accurate. On the 330 Fleet in my company, there are numerous mismatches between the IPad and the aircraft database. In fact some aircraft have different databases, tailored by available storage and routes they operate on. I can't say exactly what JQ has. So while it seems pretty easy for experts on PPrune armed with FlightRadar to decide the nearest available airport, things are often a little different in the cockpit

[Savage175]

Savage 175, spoken like a true child of the magenta line.
Sure Trevor. I'm sure it's quite simple in the 172. When you have 25,000 hours on heavy jets free to give me some advice.

[Lead Balloon]

Zero hours on heavy jets, so I’m not going to presume to criticise anyone. But is it really true that there would not be current, consistent, comprehensive AIP data at the fingertips of a ‘heavy jet’ crew?

Would seem a bit upside down if us plebs in a 172 have it, but the big boys and girls in the heavy metal didn’t.

[deja vu]

Just to make sure everyone understands what the "nearest suitable airport" means - it's also time to get to a suitable airport and not just the distance.

For example - overhead an airport at FL 350 that will handle the aircraft, but a better, more suitable airport is 70 nm away. The descent time from FL 350 for both airports is approx the same, so the airport 70 nm away is in fact the more suitable.

It's the crew on the day who make that assessment.
Oh I see, so there are "suitable" airports and then there are "more suitable" airports.

[Lookleft]

Zero hours on heavy jets, so I’m not going to presume to criticise anyone. But is it really true that there would not be current, consistent, comprehensive AIP data at the fingertips of a ‘heavy jet’ crew?

Depends on the airline LB. I dont know what airline Savage 175 flies for but despite a lot of JQs faults the technical side of the operation is to a high standard. Everytime I have looked for an airport in the Ipad that is on the PFD it is always there. Just to clarify the PFD will only show airports 1500m or greater. There are different symbols for airports and navaids. So Cowra still has an NDB and will show up on the PFD as an NDB but the airport is not in the database and is therefore not in the ipad.

Savage 175 It may not be accurate for you but my statement is accurate for JQ operations which is the airline involved in the incident.

[flighthappens]

Oh I see, so there are "suitable" airports and then there are "more suitable" airports.

I think what he is raising is the suggestion that nearest Could be considered as a temporal thing, rather than a distance thing.

[Lead Balloon]

Thanks LL. That’s useful info.

[Trevor the lover]

Ok Savage, I'll acknowledge your 25,000 jet time if you'll acknowledge my 20 years straight on multi engine jets. My point remains that I do not see how not having all that stuff electronically at your fingertips should make too much difference if you are required to get on the ground in a fire emergency - dial up the Ymia vor. Select heading, point at the needle. Land aeroplane. Surely you can still do that without a super computer.

[Gin Jockey]

Great, now there’s even less toilet paper for the elderly residents of Mildura thanks to this unexpected arrival.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

I concur with Trevor the loverboy,

When I'm flying i preload lines for extended final track on airports that have a runway length suitable for an A380, even though they may not be listed in our manual as suitable, critical or an emergency airfield. If I have a serious fire/smoke I can say to FO - "Point the aircraft to the that line about a 10 mile final".

[morno]

Everyone has different techniques and management ideas, no one crew will do things the same way another crew will.

The cargo compartment on the A320 has sufficient fire suppression that under most circumstances likely to be encountered, the end result of a few minutes is unlikely to be any different.

Not to say a fire/smoke warning should be disregarded as non-urgent, but a safer result is going to be a landing at an airport where the crew can obtain adequate information beforehand and process it so as to not lose situational awareness, vs saving a few minutes by simply “point and aim”.

But..... you’re flames are coming out the sides and it’s about to be catastrophic, then point and shoot!

[George Glass]

Its not that complicated.
Rule 101 of being an RPT Captain; Operate the aircraft in accordance with Company approved Ops. Manual.
Follow normal procedures , complete all checklists.
In Non-normal situations again follow non-normal procedures , complete all non-normal checklists.
If the checklist ends with “ land at the nearest available airport” do it.
The QRH of the aircraft I operate is pretty clear.
The question you never want to have to answer in a court of law is : “Are you aware of the statement on page ...... of your Company Ops manual?
If so why did you choose to ignore it?”
Even worse your Lawyer might have to answer it while trying to defend the claims on your estate.

[John Citizen]

Rule CAR 145

I think CAR145 gives the pilot in command "emergency authority" to "render a departure from those rules necessary in order to avoid immediate danger".

It's pretty clear isn't it ? Nothing complicated.

I am more to happy to stand up in a court of law and say "I deliberately ignored" something written in the ops manual using my authority under CAR 145.

[George Glass]

John Citizen , I am aware of the CAR’s
Nothing precludes the Pilot in Command of exercising his/her Command Authority . But only after complying with the procedures contained in the Company Ops Manual.
A colleague of mine had his last years in the business made a misery by on-going litigation by a certain idiot regulatory authority over something far less serious.
Do not ever say “ I deliberately ignored........”
Trust me , you don’t want to go there.

[Capt Fathom]

It was a good outcome. Just another day at the office.
Luckily, we won't be reading "Miracle on the Darling" any time soon!

[John Citizen]

John Citizen , I am aware of the CAR’s

I disagree.

You clearly wrote that Operate the aircraft in accordance with Company approved Ops. Manual, follow non-normal procedures, complete all non-normal checklists”

This clearly means that the PIC must ALWAYS operate in accordance with the manuals at all times and nothing else at all. You did not include the authority to deviate from these manuals under CAR 145 if required.

You even reinforced this by writing that if a pilot deliberately ignored anything in the manuals that they would have difficulty in a court of law. So this basically tells me don't ever contravene the company manuals.

Yes "ignore" sounds deliberately rebellious but you wrote it first, choosing such a word that makes a pilots actions sound worse than it is.

A more diplomatic less rebellious way to describe such actions would be "I was aware my actions weren't in compliance with the operations manuals, but after careful deliberation of all the options, we the crew assessed our actions to be the safest option under the circumstances".

[machtuk]

I disagree.

You clearly wrote that

This clearly means that the PIC must ALWAYS operate in accordance with the manuals at all times and nothing else at all. You did not include the authority to deviate from these manuals under CAR 145 if required.

You even reinforced this by writing that if a pilot deliberately ignored anything in the manuals that they would have difficulty in a court of law. So this basically tells me don't ever contravene the company manuals.

Yes "ignore" sounds deliberately rebellious but you wrote it first, choosing such a word that makes a pilots actions sound worse than it is.

A more diplomatic less rebellious way to describe such actions would be "I was aware my actions weren't in compliance with the operations manuals, but after careful deliberation of all the options, we the crew assessed our actions to be the safest option under the circumstances".

well said -;)
deckare a Mayday and the rule book gets tossed out the window! CMD decision making comes in to play!

[machtuk]

That's A nice nothing reply to very valid points Mach. Is that really the best you've got?

feeling a little butt hurt are we Trev? -)

[John Citizen]

Do not ever say “ I deliberately ignored........”
Trust me , you don’t want to go there

So if had a ticking bomb in the aircraft just about to explode, but landed on 4km runway with a 12 knot tailwind, I would have to go around in order to comply with aircraft limitations and company manuals ?

Or "I deliberately ignored and exceeded the aircraft and company limits and still landed"

Or "I was aware of the aircraft and company limits but we chose to land as this was the safest option". Isn't this the same as deliberately ignoring but just saying it in a nicer way.

Either way, you still did not follow procedure whichever way you want to describe it, ignore, neglect, overlook, didn't comply or disregard.

[George Glass]

My aircraft type has a pretty comprehensive “ Bomb on Board” Non-Normal checklist.
Plus lots of CRM training for just scenario.
Run that first. Then do what you like.
And hope you have prayed to the correct Diety.

[Trevor the lover]

Mach

Really???? Mate someone disagrees with your opinion (note no-one got personal, only the ball was played) and you accuse one guy of being "bothered" by you, and you accuse me of being hurt?????? Really. You expressed an opinion about facilities being the most important priority - people disagree and you have no comeback but to say one guy's bothered and another guy's hurt?????? Come on mate - play the ball, counter the opinions.

For you and anyone else with arrogant "jesus I'm the legend" statements like "when you have 25,000 hours heavy jet feel free to give me advice" - counter the argument, counter it all you want, but play the ball and not the man. Jesus, 25,000 hours heavy jet and without an FMS reference getting the aircraft on the ground at Mildura is a huge workload????? Good grief.

Morno - good points - one day the emergency might be point and shoot, other days it may be a more robust process. Without knowing whether a fire in the cargo hold warning is real or false, most likely this case here, point and shoot and stuff Mach Tuck's marshaller, airstairs and pretty little coffee shop.

[machtuk]

Mach

Really???? Mate someone disagrees with your opinion (note no-one got personal, only the ball was played) and you accuse one guy of being "bothered" by you, and you accuse me of being hurt?????? Really. You expressed an opinion about facilities being the most important priority - people disagree and you have no comeback but to say one guy's bothered and another guy's hurt?????? Come on mate - play the ball, counter the opinions.

For you and anyone else with arrogant "jesus I'm the legend" statements like "when you have 25,000 hours heavy jet feel free to give me advice" - counter the argument, counter it all you want, but play the ball and not the man. Jesus, 25,000 hours heavy jet and without an FMS reference getting the aircraft on the ground at Mildura is a huge workload????? Good grief.

Morno - good points - one day the emergency might be point and shoot, other days it may be a more robust process. Without knowing whether a fire in the cargo hold warning is real or false, most likely this case here, point and shoot and stuff Mach Tuck's marshaller, airstairs and pretty little coffee shop.

gee you truly are hurting aren't you? Sad but hey entertaining -:)

[das Uber Soldat]

Gotta love pilots, they can argue about anything.

[clark y]

Completely agree.

[Squawk7700]

They may as well leave it parked there, because pretty soon they will be running out of parking space at YMEL come Friday.

[Homesick-Angel]

So much d1ck waving FFS...

Nice work to the crew - Bet the 18 172s in the circuit got a rude shock!!

Those speaking of toilet paper -I’m sure the crew would have made some good use of any spare!

[dodo whirlygig]

pretty soon they will be running out of parking space at YMEL

Hmm, I’d love to see a jet go into YMEL. It must have had a serious upgrade since I last flew into there.

[over_centre]

Was the alarm found to be false or is the source of the smoke/fire known?

[segfault]

https://7news.com.au/news/aviation/jetstar-flight-from-sydney-makes-emergency-landing-in-mildura-after-cargo-fire-c-749139

> Flight JQ660 departed Sydney just before 10.30am and was almost two hours into its journey when an indicator light suggested there was an “incident” in the cargo hold, a Jetstar spokesman said
He said early reports that a fire was detected in the cargo hold were incorrect

“(The flight) was diverted to Mildura as a precaution,” he said.

So yeah looks like not a fire. Detector or instrumentation problem then.

[Pearly White]

Hmm, I’d love to see a jet go into YMEL. It must have had a serious upgrade since I last flew into there.
The Main runway at YMEL 4/22 was still a 900 metre (2,900 feet) grass strip this morning. A shade under the minimum runway lengths shown in the A320 manual landing chart which starts around the 4,000 foot mark. For LDW starting around 22,000kg.

Is it possible the other poster meant to write YMML?

[das Uber Soldat]

edit : Bleh, disregard.

Well done to the crew. Middle of an AYQ is not the place i'd like to be on fire. False indication or not.

[4djd9]

Guys, there seems to be a great deal of ego bashing going on. When things go wrong, most manufacturers´ Flight Crew Training Manuals somewhere state AVIATE, NAVIGATE, COMMUNICATE. And that is the order of the day.
Im not aware of the airports Down Under, but have flown N/S in the Americas and part of Europe most of my life. 11000 hrs in airline cockpits from F28 to 742,and some more in private jets. Your SOPs, are a great guidance, just under your QRHs.and non normal checklists.
But when things deteriorate and you have no clear idea of what is really going on, get it on the ground in one piece somewhere and have everyone walk away alive. That is your duty. To your pax, and crew. If the decision was flawed, or could have been improved, it can be argued into the ground, but your pax and your neck are grateful. Did Sully have time to go through the SOPs or make debated choices ? Not knowing the outcome which one of us would have gone for the ditching ? I think the Jetstar crew did their job to the best of their knowledge given the time constraints and a possibility that the aircraft was probably facing the worst enemy a pilot has to face: fire on board.
They were there, not the rest of us.

[Led Zeppelin]

........For LDW starting around 22,000kg.

That's a laugh - Given the empty weight of the average A320 is somewhat over 40,000 kg:confused:

[kingRB]

They were there, not the rest of us.

exactly.

I was flying at the time and heard the crew's initial mayday call on center. You could tell immediately in his voice they believed they were in trouble and it was a genuine fire.

Hope i'm never in the same situation. Great job done by them.

[Sunfish]

It’s always a genuine fire until proved otherwise - speaking as someone who has had the real thing, even in a lowly C172.

[Gear in transit]

Flight JQ660 departed Sydney just before 10.30am and was almost two hours into its journey when an indicator light suggested there was an “incident” in the cargo hold, a Jetstar spokesman said
He said early reports that a fire was detected in the cargo hold were incorrect.

The only ‘indicator light’ for the cargo hold I am aware of is the fire light OR the cargo door light itself. If there WAS a light as mentioned, it has to be one of those. The door one would be pretty easy to ascertain if it was false or not..... the other one not so much.

The only other possibility is a DG’s incident in which the company became aware of a potential DG loaded on board and alerted the crew. However there is no light for this scenario.

Either way, the crew landed safely with no further event. Well done.