Airlines in crisis

[oriental flyer]

I fully understand the level of resentment between the aircrew and the company that this management has created over the years which is coming back to bite them in the ass
having said that I think that we will all have to face the reality of the current situation , An Australian aviation expert has forecast that the corona pandemic will bankrupt most of the worlds airlines in a matter of weeks . The National airlines will be bailed out by the taxpayer but we don’t have that backstop . So although this may be a slight exaggeration I do not think that this is that far off the truth .
perhaps we need to reconsider the stance on voluntary unpaid leave . I know that it may anger many of you to help out after you have all been treated so shabbily over the years, but I think that taking 3-4 months of unpaid leave is preferable to having no job at all . I understand that many of you can not afford to take unpaid leave due to high rents in HK but perhaps the company could bring pressure to bear on your landlords to reduce their rentals during this crisis . My landlord accepted this situation during SARS so it can be done , once landlords realise that if CX goes bankrupt they won’t have any income period ,they will come to the party , For those with mortgages the banks will grant repayment holiday periods if political pressure is brought to bear .
this is turning out to be far more serious than any of us thought and the impacts will be felt for years so please consider your own personal position but perhaps it’s time to recognise the situation and soften our stance on helping out
If it helps consider this a self survival tactic
here is the link
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8116147/Coronavirus-bankrupt-nearly-worlds-airlines-matter-WEEKS-aviation-experts-say.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8117181/United-Airlines-slashes-routes-half-Virgin-Atlantic-cuts-flights-75-cent.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8116147/Coronavirus-bankrupt-nearly-worlds-airlines-matter-WEEKS-aviation-experts-say.html)

[Slasher1]

There is no resentment whatsoever.

Just an understanding that the airline has exploited every crisis everywhere always to increase workload while decreasing contract conditions. Effectively undermining existing contracts with newer ones manned under inferior terms. And there is no evidence whatsoever that this won’t continue to be the case. Even in something as widespread as this.

Especially in something like this. With every crisis comes opportunity.

I am certain that a meaningful mitigation solution would be able to be negotiated just like any other carrier. The key words are negotiated and not a scam. With everyone on board with it. This would demand a two way street. Probably a good idea at this point.

[oriental flyer]

Slasher you are absolutely correct about a negotiated agreement I should have made that clear in my initial post . The company needs to negotiate in good faith something that they seem incapable of doing . I am not sure that anyone would believe them even if they did , I think that the company and their employees need to wake up and face the situation together but it must be an agreed and certified contract for both sides

[Apple Tree Yard]

The both of you have stated very reasonable and valid points of view. However, does anyone with any experience with CX expect anything other than a cynical, crisis motivated land-grab against our conditions and pay? Just asking.

[doolay]

Nope. Sorry. The only answer in a situation like this is mass redundancy from the ASL, as per our contracts. Last in, first out.
I hate to sound crass and uncaring, but in this dire situation it is the only viable option. This situation shows exactly why we have seniority lists.

[viking avenger]

Did that 25 year housing ever become a ratified written agreement after the last crisis?
How many years before the next Freighter Command was awarded at the passenger pay scale?
Will COS 18 go away and everyone be put on COS 08 so we can all work on the same terms, work rules and pay scales?

Perhaps the Oriental flyer ( not a very politically correct user name IMHO ) could spend time looking at history, versus headline news

[mk18mod1]

Where is my full 13th month?

[oriental flyer]

From the SCMP
Carrie Lam decreed that Travellers arriving in Hong Kong from any foreign country from Thursday will be put under home quarantine, the city’s leader has said, as she extended a red travel alert to cover all overseas nations.

She added that the new restrictions would not apply to arrivals from mainland China, Macau or Taiwan. While Taiwan is a self-governing island, Beijing considers it part of the country.

go figure the logic of that move

[From a distance]

Nope. Sorry. The only answer in a situation like this is mass redundancy from the ASL, as per our contracts. Last in, first out.
I hate to sound crass and uncaring, but in this dire situation it is the only viable option. This situation shows exactly why we have seniority lists.

I don’t disagree with you about how it SHOULD be done. What is to stop Cathay approaching a business friendly HKG court system, citing an existential threat, and seeking a variation to contracts to stand down or make redundant according to fleet. I can’t see them accepting the training wave that redundancies in reverse seniority would cause.

[AllWobbly]

I don’t disagree with you about how it SHOULD be done. What is to stop Cathay approaching a business friendly HKG court system, citing an existential threat, and seeking a variation to contracts to stand down or make redundant according to fleet. I can’t see them accepting the training wave that redundancies in reverse seniority would cause.

nothing its as per the employment ordinance

[Angel 8]

No matter who owns and runs an airline, being Governments or others with larger reserves than Governments, the fact still remains that those airplanes cannot be operated empty or parked for too long.
The question is: How long?
It is inevitable that airlines will make redundancies soon, as already happening in Europe.
Redundancies are only the first step, who knows what the next step is, but probably a suspension of operation for a period.
So my humble advice to those in Negotiations with management, is: Don’t give up hard earned terms and conditions thinking this will save the day.
I would say, again humbly, ask for better conditions seal them in legally enforceable agreements, perhaps not to be given immediately but when or even if the good times return.
Meanwhile, only take unpaid leave if you can afford to sustain it for double the period you are taking.
Happy St. Patrick’s day to all.

[oriental flyer]

One thing to bear in mind is that when this is finally over there will be a massive pent up demand for travel from all sectors of the economy . It will be a huge benefit to any airlines that can position itself to meet that demand rapidly , Pilots, engineers and cabin crew cannot be replaced at a moments notice so it would pay an airline to keep its employees on side . Even if that meant a contractual additional payment to staff once the airline returned to profit To cover the temporary loss of income the staff suffered during the corona pandemic .
with a meaningful contract in place and trust in the management I think that a large number of staff would be willing to take cost saving measures , unpaid leave , temporary pay cuts etc .
Sadly though , through repeated breaches of contracts and continued attacks on our COS I don’t think anyone would trust this management to live up to the spirit of any agreement they may now wish to negotiate . What a terribly sad situation, but this is the result of treating your staff as expendable for many years, goodwill has evaporated , and goodwill is something that helps companies survive when the going gets really tough .

[Copenhagen]

No matter who owns and runs an airline, being Governments or others with larger reserves than Governments, the fact still remains that those airplanes cannot be operated empty or parked for too long.
The question is: How long?
It is inevitable that airlines will make redundancies soon, as already happening in Europe.
Redundancies are only the first step, who knows what the next step is, but probably a suspension of operation for a period.
So my humble advice to those in Negotiations with management, is: Don’t give up hard earned terms and conditions thinking this will save the day.
I would say, again humbly, ask for better conditions seal them in legally enforceable agreements, perhaps not to be given immediately but when or even if the good times return.
Meanwhile, only take unpaid leave if you can afford to sustain it for double the period you are taking.
Happy St. Patrick’s day to all.

Not sure if there will be massive pent up demand.

People will lose their jobs, companies will slash travel budgets to try and regain profitability, and there will be nervousness about going somewhere exotique, like Hong Kong.

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[Oasis]

Are you still whinging? Give it a rest..

[Oasis]

At the end of the day this is a company that is introducing 50% part time rosters for you. But to take it you must be willing to accept 33.3% leave instead of 50%. Always just a little ‘take’ to put us in our places.

This is the mentality that most pilots resent similar to the diabolical ‘commuting roster’ that was just about the worse the airline industry as ever seen (from an apparent legacy carrier too! Most embarrassing!).

Its actually not a bad deal, taking everything into account, for being half the employee we don't get half the healthcare, schooling, sim checks, it's up to the individual situation.

[AllWobbly]

Its actually not a bad deal, taking everything into account, for being half the employee we don't get half the healthcare, schooling, sim checks, it's up to the individual situation.


it’s a better deal than Virgin, Ryanair, Qantas, Flybe etc etc. As ever it’s a matter of perspective.

[ksksyujk]

Its actually not a bad deal, taking everything into account, for being half the employee we don't get half the healthcare, schooling, sim checks, it's up to the individual situation.
it is actually pretty good deal. Where else would you able to find a contract similar to the one that is being offered.

[MENELAUS]

It’s a good deal all things considered. It’s the next deal that will be the worry.

[Freehills]

Yep- assuming that the HK Govt does a bailout, I would guess it will mean haircuts all round with a prepackaged bankruptcy. Wipe out the shareholders, reduce the size of the airline to ‘vital’ routes only.