Profitable 2019. Where is our full 13th month?

[Apple Tree Yard]

So, considering todays profit announcement for the 2019 financial year, where is our justified full 13th month payment? There can be no question that under any interpretation of our contracts it should be paid in full. I assume the HKAOA and other associations are pressing this, and hopefully taking legal action to support. We deserve to receive a full payment as it was earned with dedicated hard work throughout the year. Considering it unlikely we will be seeing a 13th month this year, we should certainly expect to receive it for this past year.

[Progress Wanchai]

Normally.
”Satisfactory” operating profit.
”Marginal” profit.
As determined by the Company.

Certainly lots of wriggle room for the company lawyers there. Our one real argument is that while any of the above may result in a reduced ADB, only “in extreme circumstances, not paid”.
So when management made the decision in December 2019 to not pay one cent of the ADB, what were the “extreme circumstances” at that time?

[Apple Tree Yard]

Years ago the company started to manipulate the payout on Profit Sharing. Now, effectively there is none. Just empty words in our worthless contracts. Now, they are starting to treat the 13th month in the same fashion. If the AOA does not immediately confront and challenge the company on this travesty, and immediately begin legal proceedings, then the pilots in HK can effectively consider that the 13th month is no longer something they can expect as part of their contract. Either fight this now, of simply give up. As usual, disgraceful behaviour on part of the company. (I might add that a failure to fight this will also lead to the conclusion that the AOA is not worth belonging to).

[cxorcist]

Years ago the company started to manipulate the payout on Profit Sharing. Now, effectively there is none. Just empty words in our worthless contracts. Now, they are starting to treat the 13th month in the same fashion. If the AOA does not immediately confront and challenge the company on this travesty, and immediately begin legal proceedings, then the pilots in HK can effectively consider that the 13th month is no longer something they can expect as part of their contract. Either fight this now, of simply give up. As usual, disgraceful behaviour on part of the company. (I might add that a failure to fight this will also lead to the conclusion that the AOA is not worth belonging to).
100% correct!!!

I will only add that I will start taking SLS seriously when CX starts taking 13th month and the profit share seriously.

[Apple Tree Yard]

The real absurdity is that there will be people posting on this thread and complaining about not receiving their full 13th month, at the same time having taken SLS and given the company ANOTHER three weeks of their pay. You can't make this stuff up. Ponder the BILLION plus profit, then think about your family not having another 3 weeks pay which you rightly should be entitled to have received. Definition of Insanity?.

[Farman Biplane]

Apparently just under A$1million profit PER DAY, EVERY DAY, FOR THE WHOLE YEAR is not enough! UNFKNBLVBL

[Jnr380]

The real absurdity is that there will be people posting on this thread and complaining about not receiving their full 13th month, at the same time having taken SLS and given the company ANOTHER three weeks of their pay. You can't make this stuff up. Ponder the BILLION plus profit, then think about your family not having another 3 weeks pay which you rightly should be entitled to have received. Definition of Insanity?.

Management knew the company was going to make a profit, and a healthy one. They weren’t going to ask people to take SLS after the fact.

whomever took SLS, thanks for taking a hit to your savings to further help the company profit

[Hugo Peroni the V]

Getting the AOA to challenge this is an absolute waste of time and money. The company will argue the second half loss drove the decision.

Just take some time off when it suits you (if you are brave enough to do that rather than just post here) to get back what has been stolen from you.

[ACMS]

Wake up idiots.

This Covid19 has the potential to destroy the airline industry and others while you fools worry about your damn 13th month.

Big picture I would have thought...

Now stop going on about it.......it’s done. Worry about having a job at all.

[8driver]

Wake up idiots.

This Covid19 has the potential to destroy the airline industry and others while you fools worry about your damn 13th month.

Big picture I would have thought...

Now stop going on about it.......it’s done. Worry about having a job at all.

Do not for a minute underestimate the amount of money the freighter fleet is making.

[Apple Tree Yard]

ACMS. Our 13th month contribution is a drop in the bucket for the balance sheet of a major airline like CX. What IS important is being treated fairly throughout your career. That starts with honesty and equitable treatment. The Captains of this alrline have been basically cheated out of two years of 13th month the past three years. Most pilots were cheated out of their contractual compensation, through a cynical and manipulative narrative that has now just been proven false. The virus panic was after the fact. So no, I won't just let it go. CX has been raking in billions upon billions for decades. They will survive this difficult period. What they won't do is stop abusing their pilots if we don't stand up for fair treatment. You sound like a scared rabbit. Just what our management wants to see.

[ACMS]

ACMS. Our 13th month contribution is a drop in the bucket for the balance sheet of a major airline like CX. What IS important is being treated fairly throughout your career. That starts with honesty and equitable treatment. The Captains of this alrline have been basically cheated out of two years of 13th month the past three years. Most pilots were cheated out of their contractual compensation, through a cynical and manipulative narrative that has now just been proven false. The virus panic was after the fact. So no, I won't just let it go. CX has been raking in billions upon billions for decades. They will survive this difficult period. What they won't do is stop abusing their pilots if we don't stand up for fair treatment. You sound like a scared rabbit. Just what our management wants to see.


Well let’s all hope you are correct.

I'm just observing what is going on, nothing more.

[MENELAUS]

ACMS is right on the money. Or lack of it. FFS catch a grip.
And where else would you get a job right now ?
The whole world is imploding. Not just locally.

[mngmt mole]

Globocnik, kindly explain where ATY is incorrect. The amount of money involved in the 13th month issue is a relative rounding error to the company. The crisis will pass (they always do), but in the meantime you will have justified the company's continuing disrespect for your contract and your ongoing effort to do your job to the highest standards, and allow them to diminish the value of your career. Not to mention withholding monies that you and your family rightfully earned.

The company just declared a fairly healthy profit for the year. It is completely correct to insist that proper remuneration for that year, based on your CONTRACT is paid. To not do so, and just allow more abuse to pass into the history books only ensures the rest of your career will experience more of the same. Again, this crisis will pass. That has nothing to do with insisting on being paid according to your contract.

[ACMS]

You people in here never give up do you.........

Time and a place........time and a place......

This ain’t the time or the place for chest beating......

[Oasis]

We should be happy if cpa is still around at the end of this year and some of you fools are complaining you didn’t get 13th month.

Absolutely insane

[jetsam]

And the fact that we also lose the associated P Fund payment never gets mentioned. That’s the reason the company likes to convert into a gratuity. Specious, sneaky, disgraceful, a breach of contract..words fail. Of course SLS will also mean a reduced PF. No doubt the people who dreamed this up are on a defined benefits scheme still.

[jetsam]

Exactly. And again, unmentioned is reduction in retirement benefits. No mention by AOA, No action. Useless. Asking for SLS AFTER paying a fully earned 13th month would at least have given credence to the request for SLS. All one way as usual.

[MENELAUS]

As someone else said. Being around in 3 or 4 months is the priority. We can then debate the niceties of whether this should have been paid, assuming that there’s a company left to debate with.
Patently ATY ans Managememt Mole haven’t been out of a job. ( I’ll apologize unreservedly if that is incorrect). I have. And everything turns to **** very quickly. War chest or not.

[ACMS]

I rest my case.......

( where is the face slap Emoji when you need it ? )

[MENELAUS]

And herewego you remind me of a naive optimist. And I sincerely hope it’s not here we go again. Still if you’re proved right and we’re proved wrong then it’s happy days. Is it not ? Except that you’ve had leave on my coin. And frankly I don’t really begrudge you that. SLS always had to be a personal choice. And a lot of us have made it and should be left alone to live with that decision.

[Oasis]

Herewego75, I hope you're right, I really do.
Having said that, this is without doubt the biggest challenge we have faced yet, as an airline.
There is no telling how long it will last, and what the resulting economical fallout will be, and this on the back of bad hedging, months of protests (which in all likely hood will return once this is over with.)

[MENELAUS]

The muppets are even protesting now. Nimbyism at its best re. quarantine accom, and quasi memorial services for dear departed.

[main_dog]

remember the fight is not between us pilots

I bet the 747 guys are thinking how they can better this situation for themselves! (shame because they are working hard! They cry when they don't and now they cry when they do!)

Couldn’t resist a cheap dig at the 74 fleet could you? :rolleyes:

[MENELAUS]

Couldn’t resist a cheap dig at the 74 fleet could you? :rolleyes:

I know. Despicable. Perhaps a transfer to the jumbo, in reverse order of seniority, would help ?
These guys are keeping the whole show on the road ffs and deserve your support

[arse]

gobby: (of a person) tending to talk too loudly and in a blunt or opinionated way.

[Fly747]

I know. Despicable. Perhaps a transfer to the jumbo, in reverse order of seniority, would help ?
These guys are keeping the whole show on the road ffs and deserve your support
I agree there should be transfers to the 747. No point in transferring junior guys who are about to be made redundant though.

[cpdude]

I agree with ACMS, wake up! This is not over yet and things will get even worse before they get better.

Will CX survive? Sure, but what post COVID-19 will look like is the question.

[Progress Wanchai]

The 2019 Annual Discretionary Bonus is gone, that’s a given. But it hurts neither the company nor the HKAOA to ask what the extreme circumstances were to not pay a single Hong Kong based staff member a cent of the ADB.
The current difficulties shouldn’t be an excuse to stop communicating. If anything, the more open and honest the dialogue, the more likely the staff will assist the company when the company most needs it.

[Apple Tree Yard]

The bonus is only "gone" because of attitudes like that. It's "gone" because the pilots are easily frightened, even to the point they won't insist on proper treatment under the terms of their actual contract. It's "gone" because the company can manufacture a crisis every year if they choose (the ADB was withheld BEFORE the virus panic became apparent). The management chose to once again take money from the one group who is easily manipulated, coerced and bullied. You are all affirming that point of view with your comments. CX has billions and billions of reserves, credit lines and political power (they actually made on average a MILLION AUS$ every single day of the year). They are not going out of business. They are however quietly laughing at the naivety and gullibility of their pilot workforce. I can't blame them.

[Apple Tree Yard]

The 2019 Annual Discretionary Bonus is gone, that’s a given. But it hurts neither the company nor the HKAOA to ask what the extreme circumstances were to not pay a single Hong Kong based staff member a cent of the ADB.
The current difficulties shouldn’t be an excuse to stop communicating. If anything, the more open and honest the dialogue, the more likely the staff will assist the company when the company most needs it.
PW, I must correct you. Nearly every other group in the company received a FULL 13th month. Effectively, only the pilots were cheated (once again) out of their rightful share. ATY

[ron burgandy]

Why don’t all you bed wetters get a grip.

CX, and airlines like it, will survive this. And in the medium to long term will benefit substantially.
The short term massive hit to revenue will be more than offset in the future as this event will cull all the marginal two bit players from the scene.
All the pesky competition driving yields down will be gone. More slots will be available and less competition will mean higher fares for when that pent up demand comes.
in the mean time, suppliers, ones that Swire doesn’t own, will be squeezed to give better deals. No doubt they’ll find plenty of airport hotels suffering, so it’ll be a great opportunity to shift us to those, where they haven’t already, at cut price rates. Be assured; This crisis will create plenty of opportunities.

If this airline actually shared the treasure in the good times, then everyone would be invested in helping out in the bad. But they’ve chosen a different course; when times are good, we’re told disaster lurks in the next quarter, and when times are bad- well disaster is here, so it’s take, take, take at every opportunity. Which is fine, just don’t ask for my help.

[Apple Tree Yard]

Well said Ron. Agree word for word.

[Progress Wanchai]

PW, I must correct you. Nearly every other group in the company received a FULL 13th month. Effectively, only the pilots were cheated (once again) out of their rightful share. ATY

I must correct you ATY.

The CEO wrote on 4th December that the company “will NOT be paying a Discretionary Year-End bonus”. Zero. Nothing. To no-one. It wasn’t reduced. It wasn’t capped. (An ex-gratia payment doesn’t change this fact).

The company can only withhold the ADB completely in “extreme circumstances”. There is no harm in getting the company on record explaining what the extreme circumstances were on 4th December. In fact open and honest communication will only help the company when it needs help the most.

[Apple Tree Yard]

Progress. You are playing with semantics. Yes, you are technically correct. However, the $30000 discretionary payment conveniently represented a full months pay for the majority of employees. Of course, this meant that the pilots only received a fraction of their entitlement. I also know you are well aware of that fact. My statement stands.

[Progress Wanchai]

Progress. You are playing with semantics. Yes, you are technically correct. However, the $30000 discretionary payment conveniently represented a full months pay for the majority of employees. Of course, this meant that the pilots only received a fraction of their entitlement. I also know you are well aware of that fact. My statement stands.

You’ve argued that the association take LEGAL action to comply with your CONTRACT.

This is Hong Kong. Being technically correct (semantics as you call it) is very important if you’re involving lawyers and the courts. It actually works to our advantage that the company didn’t pay the ADB at all. There is quite a grey area where the company may cap or reduce the ADB. “Normally“, “satisfactory operating profit”, “as determined by the company“, “profitability is marginal”, etc.
However, there is only one scenario when the company can completely withhold it as they did. “In extreme circumstances”.

Why give management wriggle room when they’re cornered?

[Apple Tree Yard]

Well reasoned. Still, we are both aware of what happened, and the pilots were the losers. CX made a very decent profit, and therefore cannot legitimately deny us our 13th month. The AOA needs to push hard on this.

[controlledrest]

The AOA needs to push hard on this.

When has the AOA ever pushed hard on anything?


The time for push back was when CX asked for us to take SLS. We should have said no, as we had already 'given' a month's pay when everyone else got the equivalent of 13th Month and we were pineappled yet again.

[Pickuptruck]

Why don’t all you bed wetters get a grip.

CX, and airlines like it, will survive this. And in the medium to long term will benefit substantially.
The short term massive hit to revenue will be more than offset in the future as this event will cull all the marginal two bit players from the scene.
All the pesky competition driving yields down will be gone. More slots will be available and less competition will mean higher fares for when that pent up demand comes.
in the mean time, suppliers, ones that Swire doesn’t own, will be squeezed to give better deals. No doubt they’ll find plenty of airport hotels suffering, so it’ll be a great opportunity to shift us to those, where they haven’t already, at cut price rates. Be assured; This crisis will create plenty of opportunities.

If this airline actually shared the treasure in the good times, then everyone would be invested in helping out in the bad. But they’ve chosen a different course; when times are good, we’re told disaster lurks in the next quarter, and when times are bad- well disaster is here, so it’s take, take, take at every opportunity. Which is fine, just don’t ask for my help.

Delta is looking at Chapter 11 already and a massive furlough. BA, yes that BA, are meeting with union groups including aircrew to discuss redundancies. Marginal two bit players indeed.......

In Europe alone there’s 7 operators who will be gone by end of April with over a thousand aircrew out of work. And we’re arguing SLS......

[Apple Tree Yard]

Pickuptruck. Stop spreading "fake news". Delta is NOT speaking of Ch11. They are one of the healthiest and strongest airlines in the industry. What they did say is that it is such an outlying event that they feel the Govt needs to assist the industry (are you listening HK Govt?). The world has lost its collective mind, and the travel industry is the worst affected. The US Govt will help the airlines. I should add that Delta has said they will probably lay off employees. CX might need to wake up to the same economic fact. CX will probably never be the same airline again. I can see that clearly just looking at my March schedule. It certainly doesn't need the current employees it has. Hard truth, but the truth nonetheless.

[BubbaJ]

ron burgandy is on the money

Alan Joyce said it quite rightly so, in aviation it's now "survival of the fittest"

[Apple Tree Yard]

Well, we are doomed. If anything is clear these past few years, the one thing we can be certain of is we are not led by "the fittest".

[Copenhagen]

Tone deaf

The CX pilot group is all me me me.

[ACMS]

Tone deaf

The CX pilot group is all me me me.

Not most of us, only a select few repeat offenders in here.

[Copenhagen]

Not most of us, only a select few repeat offenders in here.

What's said here is read widely. You as a group are seen as over paid, overentitled idiots.

[Apple Tree Yard]

Don't really care how "we are seen". Not relevant (other than to you). What matters is what WE KNOW. And that is a damn sight more than someone not in the company.

[Copenhagen]

Don't really care how "we are seen". Not relevant (other than to you). What matters is what WE KNOW. And that is a damn sight more than someone not in the company.

It will matter to those seeking employment elsewhere.

I'm glad that your ego deems you immune to the world around you. The DB goldfish bowl can shatter at any moment.

[mngmt mole]

Inane comment of the week. :ok:

[ron burgandy]

You see Pickuptruck, the difference is that Delta has paid out over $4 billion USD in profit share in the last few years. Because of this I’m sure all of its employees will wilfully sign up to any unpaid leave or other measures, and that will help Delta ride this out.

The sad truth is, that at CX, those that signed up to SLS, did so out of intimidation, and fear of retribution, not because they felt obliged to help out a company that has looked after them.

[ACMS]

What's said here is read widely. You as a group are seen as over paid, overentitled idiots.

rubbish......most wouldn’t even know.

[Will IB Fayed]

Two current threads, "Where's my full 13th month" and "Redundancies - Would you take it". I know which one is more applicable in the current climate!

[Progress Wanchai]

Two current threads, "Where's my full 13th month" and "Redundancies - Would you take it". I know which one is more applicable in the current climate!

Rating the relevance of one conversation over another doesn’t reduce any secondary discussions to irrelevance.

In fact, they’re not even related. The redundancy thread is in regards to the COVID-19 issue. The failure to pay ADB has never been explained. The only relevance is that an open and honest company will actually be more likely to generate the assistance of a believing employee. Asking a question can’t possibly hurt unless the answer itself is damaging.

[cxhk]

OK you ALLLLLLL need to calm down!

ACMS / OASIS you both remind me of a low time pilot experiencing his first engine failure! You need to take a breath and calm down!

CX will get through this bad patch, believe me. They have just made 1.7 Billion dollars in profit. That will see us through for a while. They just have saved 3 weeks salary from 27000 employees ( can't believe people fell for that ). That will also see them through for a while!
And the Freighter guys are making us lots and lots of money! I hear they might start putting Freight in the belly of the 777 and 330 = MORE MONEY.

So while all the wives and girlfriends have run back to their home countries leaving all of you behind to work and pay for their holiday - remember the fight is not between us pilots. We have to worry about what this company will do next.

I can't imagine taking SLS or Unpaid leave to help them out. I think everyone was silly to do that in my own opinion. We should of all stood together and said NO! They need pilots to fly the machines that make them money! Remember that....

As for our absolutely useless AOA. They are worst than useless. No leadership at all. A rudderless ship! I bet the 747 guys are thinking how they can better this situation for themselves! (shame because they are working hard! They cry when they don't and now they cry when they do!)
The only time when you hear from the AOA is when they are trying to sue a pilot or when they kicking someone out - because they think that they are the Law. Disgusting!

Thats my rant for the week. Remember every airline in the world is in the same boat - don't think CX is the only one - as much as they make you feel like they are.
I believe we will get through this, some of us lost money and some would of got the same time off will a full pay ;-)

Sometimes I really wonder the intelligence of the people that works for CX...

A HK$1.9 billion profit = a profit margin of 1.6%
That is such a small profit in any measure, especially for an airline the size of CX that is generating the level of revenue, of HK$106billion a year, CX should make at least 10x times the amount of profit to be even consider profitable.

Secondly, how much is actually HK$1.9 billion? That is exactly 6.5 days of CX operating expenses (under normal operating circumstance). YES, 6 and a half freaking days!!!

Just to give people some perspective here:

Let’s assume the followings:
1) With a 50%+ capacity reduction in our passenger fleet for Feb and March.
2) Assume cargo is still running 100% but with reduce belly freight, which means a 30-40% reduction in overall capacity.
3) A reduction of Passenger load factor (with the exception of Europe this week, average load factor at the moment are essentially only 30-40% load).

Consider all of the above, CX monthly average revenue will have drop from about HK$8.83billion a month to about HK$2.9billion (I took out any seasonal variation, so this revenue is actually consider high for Feb and March). That’s a 68% drop in revenue and that’s a conservative number due to the traditionally lower revenue in Feb / March but we did not consider that.

Now take CX cost into perspective:

1) 3 weeks of SLS (let’s just make it simple and say everyone took it, which is not the case). Cost reduction spread over 4 months, CX average staff cost went from around HK$1.7 billion per month, down to about HK$1.4 per month.
2) fuel cost with the reduce fuel price is only 28.4% of the airline operating cost in 2019 but with fuel hedging lost, that bring it up to about 30%. Together with 50% less passenger flight, fuel cost each month will drop from HK$2.58billon down to $1.72billion.
3) ATC charges: Normally about 17% of our operating cost, and we will see significant reduction due to reduce flying, as well as some discounting, so that will goes from HK$1.4billion down to about HK$0.7billion per month.
4) customer service cost will also be reduce from less flying to about HK$0.3billion per month.
5) maintenance cost will be hard to estimate as they might try to complete some of the maintenance while the fleet is grounded but let’s just assume we will see 50% reduction, that will bring that cost down to about HK$0.5billion per month.
6) Commission, leasing, financial charges / debt and interests repayment, other expenses, this will be a bit hard to avoid, so assuming this stay around the same, about HK$1.7billion per month.

This give a total monthly operating expense of HK$4.92billion a month.

So essentially as an airline, CX is burning around HK$2.02 billion of cash a month.

So, the so call HK$1.9 billion profit will barely cover a month of loss.

Looking at CX cash position and credit line available, that total of around $12 billion.

Essentially CX has enough cash at the current burn rate for about 5-6 months. I bet you CX will not wait another 4-5 months before making further cutting.

I reckon, CX will have until around May before they will have no choice but to make further cuts. By May, their cash position will be down to 3 months of ops, which is uncomfortably low, which means lay-off will probably be consider to reduce the burn rate.

So for those who still live in the “La La Land” and still think this is not an existential crisis for CX, they really should reconsider the situation that all the airline is facing.

(Note: All numbers are based on the 2019 annual results.)

[Oasis]

Thanks for crunching the numbers, I think thats the end of the discussion.
Let's hope we can put the bellies to good use and fly some cargo instead. I hope they are on the phones underbidding fedex and dhl as we speak!

[Apple Tree Yard]

Nicely detailed analysis, although not all that I agree with. However, it avoids the simple question: We made a '"reasonable profit", and our 13th month should have been allocated in full on that basis. Don't forget, i'm not even seeking to make a case of a further PF payment that you could argue should also be ours. The Management played fast and loose with the deserved income due their pilots. Now becoming a regular annual thing. It's even random in in its nature (one year only pay back the Captains 90%, the next year pay ONLY the Captains nothing, the next year Pay everyone buy the pilots their full share). The common denominator is a company that cynically has determined that they can do what the want. Why: because they can, they can always manufacture an excuse. It is also important to recognise this issue was outside of the the current virus situation. The decision was made before this latest problem was apparent . No excuse. I would add that the payment of SLS would have hardly made a dent tn the company in the overall scheme of things. Once again, we have left a defense of our contracts wallowing in the mud, and will then rant and rave the next time their is an outrage against our T and C's. Sad.

[MENELAUS]

You just dont get it ATY, do you. ? Future abuse of C of S. ? Frankly the opportunity to debate it in the future will be a bonus. That’s assuming that’s there are any airlines left to serve in, other than SOE’s, and even they’re looking dodgy.

[Apple Tree Yard]

You're right Globo. I "just don't get it". I've been here 25+ years, seen almost that many years of ongoing abuse, but "I just don't get it". What you don't get is when (and yes, we will) get past this current crisis, CX will go straight back to devaluing, attacking and degrading your contract. It seems that is the main thing "you just don't get". This difficult time will pass, CX will still be operating, and you will be no wiser as to why your career is worthless.

[controlledrest]

A HK$1.9 billion profit = a profit margin of 1.6%
That is such a small profit in any measure, especially for an airline the size of CX that is generating the level of revenue, of HK$106billion a year, CX should make at least 10x times the amount of profit to be even consider profitable.



Overall a reasonable summary, but one must remember that the reported profit is after Swire have applied their transfer pricing to move money out of whichever companies have higher taxes, greater profit sharing schemes or share holder dividend expectation etc. The reported profit is not a good indicator of the financial health of CX, or any other company in the group.

[Apple Tree Yard]

I might point out that effectively, the pilots were the ONLY group of employees in the company that didn't receive the equivalent of a full 13th month. I'm sure that was just an oversight on managements part :/

[Copenhagen]

I might point out that effectively, the pilots were the ONLY group of employees in the company that didn't receive the equivalent of a full 13th month. I'm sure that was just an oversight on managements part :/

Maybe if pilots weren't in the perennial contract dispute....

​​​

[CXDOG]

Maybe if pilots weren't in the perennial contract dispute....

​​​
Oh. So it WAS punishment then?

Moving forward, Management have proven (yet again) they exhibit a lack of integrity. When the inevitable request (demand) for contractual concessions come, how we can trust anything that they say?

[MENELAUS]

You're right Globo. I "just don't get it". I've been here 25+ years, seen almost that many years of ongoing abuse, but "I just don't get it". What you don't get is when (and yes, we will) get past this current crisis, CX will go straight back to devaluing, attacking and degrading your contract. It seems that is the main thing "you just don't get". This difficult time will pass, CX will still be operating, and you will be no wiser as to why your career is worthless.

Thanks. I’ll bear that in mind although my start date here pre-dates yours and I’ve therefore no need of reminding what utter ****s they can be.
On the other hand they paid back SARS sls money without demur or fanfare. And in some cases they have not pursued guys on long term sickness and reduced their salaries. Whilst firing others. So, overall a very contrarian and dichotomous bunch. In much of what they do. Despite that they’re still here.
What I’m querying is your assertion that we’ll still be here in 3 months or so to debate not getting the 13m. ( if not it will be moot at best).
i sincerely hope I’m proved wrong and that you are right; and that we have the opportunity to take them to task over this.
Finally, suggesting that individuals that have taken SLS this time need their bumps felt is unfair; a personal choice, admittedly no more than a gesture, however a personal choice it remains. And should be respected rather than castigated.

[1_of_600]

Let's all take a deep breath, OK?

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/reports/covid-19-by-the-end-of-may-most-world-airlines-will-be-bankrupt-517512

[Slasher1]

Let's all take a deep breath, OK?

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/reports/covid-19-by-the-end-of-may-most-world-airlines-will-be-bankrupt-517512

Yeah.....and who is going to come out strong on the other end ?

Perhaps those who can weather the storm with a huge dynasty capital conglomerate behind them. Or perhaps a huge flag carrier government behind them. Or both.

And then what ?

Its a huge opportunity to have crushed the competition and exploit a relit and raging market.

The entire panic scenario being fueled by banksters who also use it as an opportunity.

[Oasis]

Apparently we lost 2 billion Hkd in februari alone.
SCMP

yes, but of course let’s keep whining about our 13th month.

[mk18mod1]

Apparently we lost 2 billion Hkd in februari alone.
SCMP

yes, but of course let’s keep whining about our 13th month.
None of my business, this is CEO, CFO, COO problems.
I need my 13th month money. Is that clear? understand?

[AllWobbly]

None of my business, this is CEO, CFO, COO problems.
I need my 13th month money. Is that clear? understand?

good luck dream on

[dream747]

Before you know it, you could very well be in need of a job instead.

[Copenhagen]

Before you know it, you could very well be in need of a job instead.

KFC in hongqiao are looking for staff. But then, who would want to employ cantankerous CX pilots. They want spicy chicken, not sour chicken with a big chip.