Lockhart Crash

[av8trflying]

Unfortunately it looks like a 10 seater plane has crashed up at Lockhart with 5 possible fatalities.

[aussieflyboy]

VH-OZO C404?

[segfault]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/lockhart-river-plane-crash-five-feared-dead-in-cape-york-flight-disaster/news-story/9e0d5b22c009b8e694bcd07d45d120ce

Five people are feared dead after a plane crash near Lockhart River township on Cape York Peninsula.

A charter flight carrying government workers was reported missing at about 11.30am on Wednesday.

The Cessna 404 was last heard from around 9.30am when it made two attempts to land near Lockhart River in the state’s far north.
Wild weather has been buffeting the area but it was not immediately clear if that was a factor in the crash.Police have confirmed they are investigating an aviation incident.

The Cessna 404 is a twin-engine aircraft capable of carrying up to ten passengers.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

From Ch 9 News Site...
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/five-feared-dead-in-light-plane-crash-in-queenslands-far-north/ar-BB111jr0?ocid=spartandhp

Not Good......

[outnabout]

Aussieflyboy - the ABC are saying VH-OZO was the rego...

[Ejector]

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/233865

Very Sad. 5 families have been smashed.

Operated by Air Connect, a relatively new Cairns based company (Few years) who leased this machine from another company. Conducted as a single pilot operation.

The owner of the plane but NOT the current operator is, "Perth-based charter company Aerohire has confirmed it was their aircraft and the Cessna’s registration number was VH-OZO." With AAP
https://www.aerohire.com.au/
No suggestion Aerohire are in anyway responsible or involved other than the owner of OZO.

[Nose wheel first]

Ejector, I think you’ll find it was operated locally out of Cairns and was cross hired out of Perth. OZO has been around Cairns for quite some time.

[Duck Pilot]

Terrible news, reminds me of the Aero Commander accident with Telstra workers onboard that crashed on the Cape in bad weather about 15 years ago. The pilot involved in that accident was very experienced and well respected, hence it can happen to anyone.

The aircraft was once P2-ALG in a previous life, many memorable hours flying it around the Niugini Islands over 20 years ago. I think it was originally with Eastern’s based out of Sydney.

[Flying Mechanic]

Very sad news

[anothertwit]

East Air or Hinterland?

[RatsoreA]

NOT Eastair. I don’t know who it IS, I just know who it’s not.

[CAVOK92]

VH-OZO is operated by a Company called Airconnect.

[Lead Balloon]

The holder of the AOC under the authority of which an aircraft happens to be operating at a particular point in time does not have to be the registered operator.

[Defenestrator]

Pull back a little folks. There’s some families in distress right now. It’ll all come out in the wash. Please be compassionate.

[Checklist Charlie]

I've just realised I have been wrongly logging my Navajo flight details for some 40 years, I should have been calling it a Cessna 404 if the photo at https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...cid=spartandhp (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/five-feared-dead-in-light-plane-crash-in-queenslands-far-north/ar-BB111jr0?ocid=spartandhp) is to be believed.

CC

[Ixixly]

Latest Weather Observations Lockhart River (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ60801/IDQ60801.94186.shtml)
For those wondering, BOM reports wind Calm at 0900 with maybe 2mm max within an hour either side.
Condolences to all involved.

[cabzjet]

East Air or Hinterland?
NOT Hinterland or East Air. t

[Office Update]

Cairns Post newspaper at its very best

Give these idiots an award for investigative journalism

The Cessna Titan as they describe it, was many moons ago a Piper Navajo owned by Aus Air at Moorabbin. Cairns Post has even blanked out the Aus Air name....

Idiots!

https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/188a72dd9dc3849767784ec454f70007?width=650 (https://www.cairnspost.com.au/news/queensland/lockhart-river-plane-five-people-feared-dead-after-plane-crashes/news-story/c96c6000ffd417660c536f893146e3ef) Five confirmed dead in Cape air tragedy (https://www.cairnspost.com.au/news/queensland/lockhart-river-plane-five-people-feared-dead-after-plane-crashes/news-story/c96c6000ffd417660c536f893146e3ef)Cessna down The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is dispatching investigators to the site of a light plane crash on Cape York, which has claimed the lives of five people. (https://www.cairnspost.com.au/news/queensland/lockhart-river-plane-five-people-feared-dead-after-plane-crashes/news-story/c96c6000ffd417660c536f893146e3ef)

[Archie Bargy]

I should have been calling it a Cessna 404
VH-OZO is a Cessna 404 - check the Australian aircraft register.

Very sad. As stated it was not operated from another state and it was not East Air and not Hinterland.

Not gonna mention names sorry. Respect those involved please.

[Toodogs]

Hmmmm....temp vs dew point for hours before and after quite telling of the expected cloudbase.

[Checklist Charlie]

Archie Bargy, yes I know what the register says. What is aircraft in the photo link I referred to?
CC

[andrasz]

Archie Bargy, yes I know what the register says. What is aircraft in the photo link I referred to?
CC
In Oz (as in many other parts of the world) after strikeoff and a certain elapsed time registrations are re-issued to new aircraft. Here is a photo of the correct plane:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x533/20120630_vh_ozo_david_eyre_1_9c1f0f69a30268a7889a75517314c97 655d54403.jpg

The Navajo was struck off the register sometime around 2006 (there is a photo of in on A-net in a rather derelict state at that time).

[Duck Pilot]

Not sure when the 404 was exported to Australia, probably about 15 years ago. It was previously P2-ALG ex Airlink PNG. It’s ex sister PNG ship P2-ALK is now at the Goroka Aero Club in the kids playground.

Condolences to everyone effected by this tragedy. It’s very sad and hopefully we will all be able to learn from this accident.

[cowl flaps]

Latest Weather Observations Lockhart River (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ60801/IDQ60801.94186.shtml)
For those wondering, BOM reports wind Calm at 0900 with maybe 2mm max within an hour either side.
Condolences to all involved.

The media stuffing up again, suggesting near cyclonic WX,
Police believe the aircraft crashed into sand dunes as wild weather including monsoonal rain and high winds whipped the region.

And it seems that it quite calm.


https://i.imgur.com/NMMlIO9.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ZYzAQF9.jpg

[Ixixly]

In all fairness that was from the Superintendent they were interviewing and conditions around the area don't look great really and he had probably only been barely briefed by his own people. Also in regards to media using a photo of OZO from a previous life, I mean really people? Is this what we're going to get hung up on?

[Archie Bargy]

Lockhart River Mayor said ... It is a very difficult place to fly into. (ABC News)

Anyone with local knowledge guess why a Mayor would say this? It’s like ‘everyone knows’. Is it really that difficult?

FWIW he corroborated the police’s account
This morning was terrible weather — we had a low over the top of Lockhart River and it poured down for hours

[PoppaJo]

Anyone with local knowledge guess why a Mayor would say this? It’s like ‘everyone knows’. Is it really that difficult?

Aside the lack of alternates available in close proximity, I have been there, and didn’t find it challenging. But that’s coming from someone who trained up here, someone from Sydney might find it a challenge. The only challenges I have seen others face in this part of the world is decision making. Go or No Go. If in doubt, they normally go. A locally trained pilot up this way might think differently.

If he is referring to flying in monsoon season well that’s no different to the rest of the region. That’s a PIC call.

To end up in the sand dunes where they did, would potentially indicate they were on Base for 30.

The wind was dead and showers recorded within the previous window was indicative of clouds. However, IMC seems to be a given going off that forecast.

Look, I’m not claiming it’s IMC, the forecast essentially gives us that data, I’m not claiming it engineering. It could be anything. But, if it’s IMC, we have an issue here, a growing problem trending in the wrong direction.

[krismiler]

Unfortunately, not the first disaster at Lockhart River. 2005 Metroliner accident report.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2005/AAIR/aair200501977.aspx

[LeanOfPeak]

Latest Weather Observations Lockhart River (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ60801/IDQ60801.94186.shtml)
For those wondering, BOM reports wind Calm at 0900 with maybe 2mm max within an hour either side.
Condolences to all involved.

Not to nit pick, but the BOM data suggests 8.6mm between 8am and 10am if I'm reading it correctly.

Another sad day and my thoughts go to all those impacted. :ouch:

[ZAZ]

Came across to see what the brains trust have said..
Same old same old.
Experienced pilot
Bad Weather
Get home itis
What went wrong
We will hear in a year or so.
And the world goes on.

Evidence everywhere of slack training performance and experience.
Despite CASA hammering Human Condition at the seminars.

If you dont believe just check out the flight radar tracks of those trainees shooting the YHML NDB approach and compare it with the plate!
truncated half baked approaches that would not pass a test and would be a fail.
so where has the standard gone with all you ifr jocks?

Qualified with your low level annual circling approach and not broken the minima lately?

We are still shaken by Mangalore and every time death rate seems to go up.

Like with the two Angel Flight crashes in my region all we get is seminars saying DONT!

[lucille]

Haven't flown GA for yonks. But as a poorly paid pilot who was always afraid for the longevity of his job, I can tell you there was a strong imperative to "Git her done, boy". Upgrades onto better aircraft and better assignments were rewards handed out to those who went that "extra mile".

And at the end of the day, there was never anyone there to stick up for you when you decided to divert or take the safer and inevitably more expensive or inconvenient option. Everyone from the passengers to management hated you and marked you down as being an inferior pilot.

I remain thankful for one small mercy - at least back then we never had the internet with its seemingly unlimited supply of been-nowhere, done-nothing, know-alls.

[Iron Bar]

Not where I worked in GA Lucille, company stuck up for safe pilots 100% of the time. (As did majority of the competition) What’s more, anyone who did try to go the “extra mile” in a dodgy, half arsed fashion, would certainly have to worry about longevity. There were a few.

[Centaurus]

Despite CASA hammering Human Condition at the seminars.

Having attended numerous CASA seminars over the years I am struck by the significant number of middle to old age attendees (me included I must admit) who go along to these free seminars mainly to meet old acquaintances from previous seminars, free non-jeopardy tea and bikkies, free CASA hand-outs but little else that we haven't heard before.
I have seen no evidence of CASA "hammering" Human Factors. In any case a lot of this stuff is online nowadays

[Dick Smith]

I understand there is no camera or Unicom at the airport to provide information on local conditions.

Just like Lord Howe where the local bloke Clive Wilson has been prevented from giving local weather!

[PLovett]

Dick, what about WAAS? What price having vertical guidance on a RNAV approach but the self-proclaimed safety experts don't seem to think it necessary. Info (visual or voice) on local conditions is fine but I would much rather vertical guidance than what prevails today.

From the public media announcements I am led to think this aircraft had already made two unsuccessful attempts at landing (presumably RNAV R30) and crashed at about 3.3 nm short of the runway on the third approach. It is known from experience that the chance of a crash increases with the number of approaches made. That is why some airlines forbid flight crew from commencing an approach if the conditions are less than the minima. With WAAS (or whatever it is called these days) that minima can be much lower than our RNAV approaches. From videos posted on-line from GA pilots in the USA their minima with vertical guidance are approaching that of an ILS.

It is time we moved from the dark ages in Australia. There is a wealth of aviation advances around the world that we are ignoring with fatal results.

[SRFred]

Alledgedly one of the guys on the plane sent a picture of the weather after the second aborted attempt to land.

RIP guys.

[Squawk7700]

I understand there is no camera or Unicom at the airport to provide information on local conditions.

Just like Lord Howe where the local bloke Clive Wilson has been prevented from giving local weather!

I’m happy to get some cameras up there. Depending on what equipment is already there, it could cost less than $150 for two good ones. I do my best but we put cameras where they are asked for and there’s only enough hours in the day to chase up airport operators. It’s sad to think that cameras there may have averted this tragedy. I’d like to think that they have already saved lives but as you know it’s impossible to ever find out!

[CAVOK92]

I understand there is no camera or Unicom at the airport to provide information on local conditions.

Just like Lord Howe where the local bloke Clive Wilson has been prevented from giving local weather!

There is an AWIS, TAF and METAR.

[compressor stall]

I’m not sure what value a camera would have in preventing this accident. The PIC was by definition a professional pilot and the expectation is that he should give it a go unless there was good reason not to. He was IFR rated for a reason.
My experience of Lockhart over 3 years is that it’s tropical and if you don’t like the weather wait 30 mins.
Cameras have their usefulness in determining VFR conditions and should be encouraged in that context. Their usefulness is limited in determining whether the cloud is above or below IFR RNAV minima.
The METAR. AWIS and talking to UNICOM operator are many many times more useful than a webcam image

[Ixixly]

Haven't flown GA for yonks. But as a poorly paid pilot who was always afraid for the longevity of his job, I can tell you there was a strong imperative to "Git her done, boy". Upgrades onto better aircraft and better assignments were rewards handed out to those who went that "extra mile".

And at the end of the day, there was never anyone there to stick up for you when you decided to divert or take the safer and inevitably more expensive or inconvenient option. Everyone from the passengers to management hated you and marked you down as being an inferior pilot.

I remain thankful for one small mercy - at least back then we never had the internet with its seemingly unlimited supply of been-nowhere, done-nothing, know-alls.

And do you appreciate the irony of bringing up what you label as an unlimited supply of been-nowhere, done-nothing, know-alls when you're bringing up a topic without having any damned clue at all whether this Pilot was pressured or had any reason at all to doubt whether it was safe to conduct this flight? How about you pull your own head in and go have a think about yourself for a moment.

[Ixixly]

Not to nit pick, but the BOM data suggests 8.6mm between 8am and 10am if I'm reading it correctly.

Another sad day and my thoughts go to all those impacted. :ouch:

Yeah, true, 4.3mm per hour isn't exactly heavy though BUT it also says 7.4mm recored at 0800, 9.0mm at 0830, 10.00mm at 0900 then 0.4mm at 0910, so assuming they were roughly on time at around 0900 there was not much around, highest rainfall was beteen 0910 where it recorded 0.4mm and 0929 where it recorded 3.8mm so 3.4mm in about 29mins suggests a relatively heavy shower passing through in that 19mins which is possibly where they were caught out, wind picked up a little too to a max gusts of 10kts at 0946 so not too breezy.

Of course this is all assuming that the station was accurate and not having any issues and that there wasn't even heavier rain localised in the vicinity of the crash. Temp, Dew Point and Rel Hum would suggest a lot of low cloud around then too which would have made it difficult possibly.

Honestly just found it surprising how little wind there was around after looking at the Radar images of the area swirling around. My first thought was "Why did they go there anyway with the weather described" so went to check BOM and found it wasn't so bad looking at the data there. Happy to be corrected by anyone who was actually in the area.

[Ixixly]

I’m not sure what value a camera would have in preventing this accident. The PIC was by definition a professional pilot and the expectation is that he should give it a go unless there was good reason not to. He was IFR rated for a reason.
My experience of Lockhart over 3 years is that it’s tropical and if you don’t like the weather wait 30 mins.
Cameras have their usefulness in determining VFR conditions and should be encouraged in that context. Their usefulness is limited in determining whether the cloud is above or below IFR RNAV minima.
The METAR. AWIS and talking to UNICOM operator are many many times more useful than a webcam image

Compressor, I'd posit that it's a lot easier and cheaper to deploy some good quality Webcams around aerodromes than it is to have a Unicom everywhere which makes them extremely valuable in my mind. AWIS is great but it tells you what's happening right there, where as a good webcam can help fill in some blanks about where stuff is actually happening. It's all extra data really to help complete the picture but in the end it's about the Pilot being able to take that data and use it wisely of course and neither is a substitute for the other.

[sheppey]

Just as a matter of interest but does the C404 have windscreen wipers? Even with wipers, trying to see a runway through a windscreen affected by heavy rain can give a false horizon. The result is the aircraft is much lower than the pilot thinks he is. An old trick is to wipe car windscreen rain repellent over the windscreen before departure. It has the effect of breaking up the water flooding over the windscreen, into individual drops and the result is amazing you can see where you are going more clearly.

Operating a jet transport in heavy tropical downpours characteristic of many Pacific atolls where the duty Towering CU pouring rain sits over the runway at inconvenient times, rain repellent was essential. It worked marvellously. A squirt from a bottle of Coca Cola on the windscreen was effective in cleaning rain repellent residue from the windscreen after landing.

See: https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/598280-visual-illusions-when-landing-heavy-rain.html

[compressor stall]

Compressor, I'd posit that it's a lot easier and cheaper to deploy some good quality Webcams around aerodromes than it is to have a Unicom everywhere which makes them extremely valuable in my mind. AWIS is great but it tells you what's happening right there, where as a good webcam can help fill in some blanks about where stuff is actually happening. It's all extra data really to help complete the picture but in the end it's about the Pilot being able to take that data and use it wisely of course and neither is a substitute for the other.
They have their value, but in a fast changing tropical environment when you’re trained to shoot an approach to 200ish feet I still don’t think that is that useful. When do you look at it? Before departure, 90 mins ago? At the IAF? You want the data for the last two hundred feet which is as you say is the AWIS.
If this was a VFR into IMC accident, a webcam could have made a difference and they might have never get off the ground and just gone to the pub. But unless it’s fog all around, a TEMPO +RA TAF shouldn’t stop an IFR commercial pilot going (caveat that I haven’t seen the TAF for yesterday)..
Again, I’m not deriding webcams. I’m not sure of their relevance in this accident. It reminds me of my RFDS days. Returning to base from the big smoke I’d sometimes get the nervous doc or nurse back at base call me to say the weather is atrocious - fierce rain and storms. and i should delay returning (about an hour flight). They never understood when I’d say thanks, that’s great news, I’m leaving now ... knowing full well it’d clear by the time I got there. It never failed me.

Sheepy - they were 5000m+ from the runway.

[Ixixly]

They have their value, but in a fast changing tropical environment when you’re trained to shoot an approach to 200ish feet I still don’t think that is that useful. When do you look at it? Before departure, 90 mins ago? At the IAF? You want the data for the last two hundred feet which is as you say is the AWIS.
If this was a VFR into IMC accident, a webcam could have made a difference and they might have never get off the ground and just gone to the pub. But unless it’s fog all around, a TEMPO +RA TAF shouldn’t stop an IFR commercial pilot going (caveat that I haven’t seen the TAF for yesterday)..
Again, I’m not deriding webcams. I’m not sure of their relevance in this accident. It reminds me of my RFDS days. Returning to base from the big smoke I’d sometimes get the nervous doc or nurse back at base call me to say the weather is atrocious - fierce rain and storms. and i should delay returning (about an hour flight). They never understood when I’d say thanks, that’s great news, I’m leaving now ... knowing full well it’d clear by the time I got there. It never failed me.

Sheepy - they were 5000m+ from the runway.

All fair points, for me if I knew a webcam was available I'd probably try and check it about 10-15mins from the destination just as a matter of gathering that data to complete the picture. I've operated in a part of the world where I trusted the webcams that happened to be around a HELL of a lot more than the MET and they saved my bacon on a few occasions too so I guess I've built an appreciation of them but as mentioned, like any data it needs to be taken in conjunction with all your other sources too. That last part was very specific to there though and not a general indication of their relevance in all parts of the world.

In this particular accident 10-15mins out it may have been apparent from the webcam that a heavy shower was approaching and that were other options such as holding, diverting etc... but we won't really know as we weren't there and won't have any real clue till the investigation is complete. Even then with the way CASA/ATSB goes with GA we may never have any real clue or good safety outcomes from it unfortunately, which I personally think is just another tragedy to add ontop of it all.

[PLovett]

I am with compressor stall on this regarding web cams. My experience of them in cloudy weather is that they will show you just that - rain, clouds but at what height? Unless the camera is pointed at something like a hill with a known height then it is very hard to determine the base.

I go back to my earlier post; there is now so much new avionics out there that can make these approaches so much easier and safer but for a variety of reasons we are not using them. How much of a difference would a synthetic vision based off a terrain data base have made in this situation. I know they are not to be used for navigation purposes but it would have brought to the pilot's attention that he was closing with the ground.

This equipment is expensive, more so because the idiocy of regulatory compliance in this country to install non-type specific equipment. However, the costs of a fatal crash are infinitely higher as this operator is about to find out.

[Two_dogs]

there is now so much new avionics out there that can make these approaches so much easier and safer but for a variety of reasons we are not using them. How much of a difference would a synthetic vision based off a terrain data base have made in this situation.I know they are not to be used for navigation purposes but it would have brought to the pilot's attention that he was closing with the ground.

First, what a tragedy. At a minimum, six families in absolute grief, if including the operator. More, obviously, by extrapolation. My sincere condolences to all directly and indirectly involved.

Whilst I acknowledge your comment which i have bolded, myself, I use an altimeter to monitor approach profile and MDA.Synthetic vision should have no input to an instrument approach. Synthetic vision is not in any way an appendice to an approach chart. Sure, its an aid in situational awareness but beware the Children of the Magenta Line mentality. Fly the promulgated approach chart, not the synthetics. It is not a video game.

I'm not in any way having a go at the PIC who I have no knowledge of, but I believe was quite experienced. You don't get a gig flying a C404 IFR with a basic CPL resume despite the current state of play in industry. Also, what cost is considered acceptable to add this capability to a 40 year old airframe. 50% the cost of the current asset? Money down the drain.

I know the operator involved and wish him well in the coming weeks, the AOC renewal is due in two weeks. I also know the Cairns CASA culture, poor bugger.

[Sunfish]

Don’t we already know the outcome of this tragedy? CASA will find a reason to cancel the operators AOC, bankrupting him and putting people out of jobs as we enter a recession. The ATSB report will blame the pilot. Nothing will change.

[cowl flaps]

Accident site approx. 6 km from the threshold of Rwy 30.

https://i.imgur.com/eW2JDnO.jpg?1

[Vag277]

The RNAV approach to 30 shows MDA 830ft. How high are the dunes at the accident site?

[CAVOK92]

I don’t think people appreciate the remoteness of Lockhart. Cairns to Lockhart is the equivalent of flying Moorabbin to Bankstown the big difference is in this incidents case the only town you fly over is 1 hour out of Lockhart. Don’t think an hour old webcam image is going to be much use. In my experience you still only get 2 bars of 3G at the airport on a good day.

[Squawk7700]

I don’t think people appreciate the remoteness of Lockhart. Cairns to Lockhart is the equivalent of flying Moorabbin to Bankstown the big difference is in this incidents case the only town you fly over is 1 hour out of Lockhart. Don’t think an hour old webcam image is going to be much use. In my experience you still only get 2 bars of 3G at the airport on a good day.

I wouldn’t be worried about the tech required, there are ways to make it happen.

[CAVOK92]

I wouldn’t be worried about the tech required, there are ways to make it happen.
it’s not the Tech requires, it’s the fact the only reception within an hours flight time to check the webcam is short final.

[Squawk7700]

it’s not the Tech requires, it’s the fact the only reception within an hours flight time to check the webcam is short final.

Roger that thanks. Same issue at Lord Howe. Ok for the Qantas guys on company frequency but not the little guys.

[zzodr]

TAF AMD YLHR 102325Z 1023/1108
VRB03kt 9999 -SHRA SCT010 BKN020
FM110300 32007KT 9999 -SHRA BKN020
TEMPO 1023/1108 VRB20G35kt 1000 TSRA BKN005 SCT015CB
RML
T 25 29 29 26 Q 1009 1007 1005 1006

TAF YLHR 101849Z 1020/1108
VRB03KT 9999 -RA SCT010
FM110000 06005KT 9999 -SHRA SCT010
TEMPO 1020/1100 3000 RA BKN005
TEMPO 1100/1108 3000 SHRA BKN008
PROB30 TEMPO 1020/1108 VRB25G35kt 1000 TSRA BKN005 SCT010CB
PROB30 1020/1022 0500 FG BKN001
RMK
T 25 27 29 29 Q 1007 1009 1007 1005

[roundsounds]

Don’t we already know the outcome of this tragedy? CASA will find a reason to cancel the operators AOC, bankrupting him and putting people out of jobs as we enter a recession. The ATSB report will blame the pilot. Nothing will change.

no doubt somehow justifying the success of the regulation reform.

[Grogmonster]

I had a look on google earth. It appears the dunes are around 40-60 ft AMSL on the extended runway center line. I did see a picture in the press this morning that showed the wreckage at the edge of the dune / beach treeline so he must have been low.

Groggy

[aroa]

"must have been low"...Not only that !...VERY LOW. The MDA is 830'.
Ours is to reason why..hopefully (sic) the ATSB will find/ give us the correct answer.
Was there some 'emergency' that bought it low ?
No post impact fire ?
RIP to all.

[poporange]

Hearing news like this makes me cringe going about being a pilot.

[Crosswhinge]

Many years ago a F27 pilot told of the irregular approach to Lockhart. Fly outbound SE from the NDB. When over the sea (5nm) descend to become visual. Fly VFR back to Lockhart. Old "wisdom" hasn't passed down?

[Lookleft]

Fly outbound SE from the NDB. When over the sea (5nm) descend to become visual. Fly VFR back to Lockhart. Old "wisdom" hasn't passed down?

You get away with it nine times out of ten. Quite probable that "the old wisdom" has been passed down and thats why it impacted in the sand dunes.

[Roj approved]

Many years ago a F27 pilot told of the irregular approach to Lockhart. Fly outbound SE from the NDB. When over the sea (5nm) descend to become visual. Fly VFR back to Lockhart. Old "wisdom" hasn't passed down?

This is exactly the sort of “old wisdom” that gets people killed.

I’ve been there once, back in 2000, forecast was good, dry season stuff. Got overhead and couldn’t see ****, screaming SE’er blowing, pissing rain.

NDB to minima, circle to land 12 was marginal at best. Apparently this is a “normal” day in YLHR.

10 mins later, “local operator” lands with 15+kt tailwind on 30 (C404). I wander over and was told about this “local approach”.

He was surprised I got in off the NDB, “no one ever bothers”. (There is RNAV’s on both ends now I believe)

A few months later the Metro crashed.

I’m pretty sure I will never go back there again.

Something needs to be done to improve safety at this airport, not just by CASA, but by the local council and the operators that go in there.

[Ixixly]

I still have to question why in this day and age are we even still using NDB at all?! All that money being thrown at the regulatory reform, how much would it actually cost to replace every single NDB approach with a GPS Approach?!

[Capt Fathom]

Got overhead and couldn’t see ****, screaming SE’er blowing, pissing rain. NDB to minima, circle to land 12 was marginal at best

Something needs to be done to improve safety at this airport, not just by CASA, but by the local council and the operators that go in there

Like not circling to land when the weather is marginal. :E

[Roj approved]

Like not circling to land when the weather is marginal. :E

Spot on, changed undies and learned a big lesson that day👍

[Vag277]

Ixixly
Every aerodrome in DAP except 3 military locations has RNAV approaches published. Every IFR aircraft is required to have approach capable GPS navigator so why fly an NDB procedure except for the novelty?

[ncthomas]

[QUOTE=cowl flaps;10710040]The media stuffing up again, suggesting near cyclonic WX,



While I have been a keen reader of PPRUNE, this is my first post. I am a 70 year old retiree whose flying experience is very different from the tough world of GA flying. I was a fighter pilot in my young days and flew night freight on 737s and757s in my civil life. I am also not familiar with the environment obtained in southern latitudes.

The table listing Station Details indicated calm winds at the time of the crash. But soon thereafter winds pick up and they veer from Westerly to WNW. Wind speeds drop again thereafter to Calm. While the recorded speeds were not very high, doesn't the changing winds indicate a passing cell, may be a large Cumulus? Could it have been a lot more violent, when the ill fated aircraft encountered it along the coast? Cumulus clouds can change it's intensity very rapidly. Down draughts from a large cumulus could be destructive to a small aircraft.
The reason I am writing this is because I find it difficult to believe that any one would deliberately fly so low as to hit a 40 foot dune. If the aircraft had hit something at, say, 500 feet or above one could think of many reasons how it happened.

I have no idea how much data is recorded on these aircraft. So everything would be second guessed and mistakes of the PIC are an easy peg to hang the blame on.

RIP guys.

[On eyre]

Ixixly
Every aerodrome in DAP except 3 military locations has RNAV approaches published. Every IFR aircraft is required to have approach capable GPS navigator so why fly an NDB procedure except for the novelty?

I suspect because in 2000 there was no RNAV back then for that airport 😳

[compressor stall]

He was surprised I got in off the NDB, “no one ever bothers”. (There is RNAV’s on both ends now I believe)

A few months later the Metro crashed.

.

IIRC the metro was doing the RNAV from the NW.

As for my time going in there regularly nearly 20 years ago, with no weather radar and TX around, I much preferred establishing in VMC underneath along the coast than being in IMC up high and running into a storm. I felt it safer given the limitations of the equipment I had (multi 6 seater IFR. No radar).

[Roj approved]

Well, that just shows how old I am and how time blends into itself. It was a few “years” later that the Metro crashed, 2005.

Sorry folks.

Funnily enough, when I got back to base the boss asked how YLHR was, I told him, he laughed and said “yeah, it’s always **** like that, the local boys just get visual over the sea and take the tailwind”.

Gotta love GA.😩

[Horatio Leafblower]

I did see a picture in the press this morning that showed the wreckage at the edge of the dune / beach treeline so he must have been low.

Bloody oath he was low.

....ground level in fact.

[sms777]

Nobody mentioned the possibility of microburst yet......

[Bend alot]

[QUOTE=cowl flaps;10710040]The media stuffing up again, suggesting near cyclonic WX,



While I have been a keen reader of PPRUNE, this is my first post. I am a 70 year old retiree whose flying experience is very different from the tough world of GA flying. I was a fighter pilot in my young days and flew night freight on 737s and757s in my civil life. I am also not familiar with the environment obtained in southern latitudes.

The table listing Station Details indicated calm winds at the time of the crash. But soon thereafter winds pick up and they veer from Westerly to WNW. Wind speeds drop again thereafter to Calm. While the recorded speeds were not very high, doesn't the changing winds indicate a passing cell, may be a large Cumulus? Could it have been a lot more violent, when the ill fated aircraft encountered it along the coast? Cumulus clouds can change it's intensity very rapidly. Down draughts from a large cumulus could be destructive to a small aircraft.
The reason I am writing this is because I find it difficult to believe that any one would deliberately fly so low as to hit a 40 foot dune. If the aircraft had hit something at, say, 500 feet or above one could think of many reasons how it happened.

I have no idea how much data is recorded on these aircraft. So everything would be second guessed and mistakes of the PIC are an easy peg to hang the blame on.

RIP guys.
Not much data is recorded if any on these aircraft, there may be some limited data on some avionics upgrade such as the GPS. I expect that there could be some cell phone data that could shed some light on the final moments.

I do not know that area, but getting visual over the ocean pretty low, I can see happening. It would not take much of an event/distraction to lose a few precious feet in the tropical weather of the day.
Interesting the WX recorded is not matching with witness reports or a reported text image of the second attempt to land.

I have seen a few "local procedures" for use in adverse weather that involve personal units - not suggesting that is the case here.

RIP & condolences to all involved.

[PLovett]

[QUOTE=ncthomas;10713233]
Not much data is recorded if any on these aircraft, there may be some limited data on some avionics upgrade such as the GPS. I expect that there could be some cell phone data that could shed some light on the final moments.

I do not know that area, but getting visual over the ocean pretty low, I can see happening. It would not take much of an event/distraction to lose a few precious feet in the tropical weather of the day.
Interesting the WX recorded is not matching with witness reports or a reported text image of the second attempt to land.

I have seen a few "local procedures" for use in adverse weather that involve personal units - not suggesting that is the case here.

RIP & condolences to all involved.

Actually there is quite a lot of information available from the GPS chip so long as it wasn't damaged in the crash. If the G forces are high enough the chip will crack and that makes it impossible to read. Getting visual over the sea on a rainy/misty day can be a real b*****d as the horizon disappears into the murk and one has to be very careful that you are not losing altitude. This is especially so if you are beyond visual range of the land.

[Office Update]

I am informed that a Nautilus Aviation Bell 407 has been lifting the wreckage from the beach to the airport. Piece by piece.
Sad work.....

[Centaurus]

There is something to be said about the general advice of don't keep on trying if the first two IMC approaches have failed to become visual.

[Thirsty]

My experience of Lockhart over 3 years is that it’s tropical and if you don’t like the weather wait 30 mins
Seen that in many tropical places. Do you have that luxury to freewheel around with passenger deadlines?
Never been there but: Can arrival times be tweaked to a safer time of the day - is the weather consistently nasty early in the morning and better (say) in the afternoon?

[Duck Pilot]

Has Australia enforced approach bans yet? I know it’s in the pipeline if not already rolled out.

[compressor stall]

Has Australia enforced approach bans yet? I know it’s in the pipeline if not already rolled out.

December 2021 now.

[Qwark]

Unfortunately an Approach Ban rule wouldnt help here though. It needs real time visibility and ceiling to be reported to the crew. So basically it would only work at towered airports.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Unfortunately an Approach Ban rule wouldnt help here though. It needs real time visibility and ceiling to be reported to the crew. So basically it would only work at towered airports.

The way the approach ban has been written for the CASRs, you are correct; they ban an approach based on reported conditions.

The Flight Safety Foundation model allows an approach, but if you try once and can't get visual you are not allowed to try again. THAT model would have perhaps prevented this accident.

[Mainframe]

just revisiting this thread:
in amongst the responders there is a lot of useful input.

Toodogs : you hit the nail on the head regarding temperature dewpoint spread. Less than two degrees difference high probability of reduced visibility,
less than one degree fog / cloud reduced visibility.

PoppaJo: Alternates, after two missed approaches divert to Weipa, 81 nm West, multiple approach aids and procedures,
low MDA's and circling minima, PAPI lights etc and no terrain problems.

Sheppey: Rain affected windscreen, no wipers, RainX will clear most precipitation if you are above 50 kts.
Amber or Yellow lens glasses (night driving shooters / low vis mining ops) will also give an edge with contrast and available light in bad weather.

Crosswhinge: NDB approach with letdown on inbound turn.
Historically, particularly with a SE weather flow, one becomes visual inbound before reaching MDA. A visual approach to RWY 30 is usually possible.

SMS7777: Microbursts. I have personally encountered them at both LHR and Weipa

Lockhart River aerodrome has significant terrain to the West and South of the field, and terrain to the North.
As with most communities there is a significant communications tower (580') near the circuit area.
This aerodrome does not lend itself to circling approaches and has a published No Circling restriction to the Sth and SW of the strip.

The original GPS RNAV procedure for rwy 12 was dangerously close to terrain and
after the Metro crash the approach was realigned to clear some terrain.
The original approach was designed in accordance with applicable standards but did not include a common sense profile.

I have 20 years experience at YLHR and it's weather problems.
I have years of experience in East Timor, Qld Gulf Country, PNG, Bougainville and Solomon Islands.
I am not an armchair expert commenting on something of which I have no experience.

In closing, I note that there was no post impact fire, given that the Titan has two turbocharged engines
that would have had red hot turbos ready to ignite any fuel from ruptured fuel lines.

Was there a double engine failure resulting in a glide approach hence the extremely low altitude at impact?
Was the GPS reset to the aerodrome reference point or was it still in approach mode?
Why wasn't a diversion to an alternate (Weipa?) initiated after the 2nd missed approach?

Recovered data from GPS etc will shed some light on what may have happened.

Lets wait for the ATSB report which should have better access to the facts than we do.

Mainframe

[Look Mum - no hands]

As quick as some have been to suggest that this flight shouldn't have been attempted given the TAF, or that the approach(es) shouldn't have been attempted based on the AWIS, it's worth noting that two other IFR twins arrived without difficulty that morning - one a bit earlier and one about half an hour after the accident. Both reputable companies, both reportedly got visual comfortably above the RNAV minima. I'm not doubting that it was fluctuating and was rubbish when OZO arrived, but the TAF was nothing out of the ordinary for a tropical wet season day. There is also a suggestion that the aircraft may have only made one missed approach and that the accident was on the second attempt - doesn't change the outcome but it might change the tone of the conversation about how hard he had been trying to get in.

[iatethemacaroni]

I am the pilot's partner. I have avoided this thread for as long as I could but the thought of there being misinformation out there is too much to bear. For what it's worth, I am also a professional pilot and saw the TAF and radar that morning.

There were passing SPECIs, but the TAF itself was something along the lines of broken at 2000' and 10km vis with the usual tempos. Whether a SPECI was passed on to him during the flight, I don't know. VHF coverage at lower levels isn't great at LHR.

He had return fuel for Cairns plus tempos plus more. He was never one to skimp on fuel. I have the planning figures at home.

He only made TWO approaches in total. The second approach is where something went wrong. I have his OzRunways details and have seen the track log.

All we know is that he was in a Titan, hand-flying in sh*t visibility, potential turbulence or downdrafts, with no GPWS and no ADSB coverage (no chance for a low altitude alert like you might receive from ATC in the States) and limited ability to appreciate an increase in sink rate given the over-water approach. He certainly would've been doing his damnedest to get everyone in safely.

He was also very experienced and had at least 5 wet seasons under his belt, between the Territory and FNQ. Most of his clients were regulars and many have reached out to tell us how safe they felt and how much they enjoyed his company.

I know this is a professional forum, not one for emotional reminiscing. I understand questions and speculation. I have my own regarding weather station readings from the time of the approach, whether the AWIS was functioning and whether the GPS sequenced correctly. That said, given that this was a GA accident at Lockhart River, not an A380 at Heathrow I know there were be very limited hard data.

We used to pore over ATSB reports together and it was always the light aircraft accidents that struck us. There is no CVR, no FDR, and usually no witnesses. What you're left with is your legacy - and his was one of being thoroughly professional - and hopefully the kindness of those of us who have flown these sorts of aircraft, in this sort of weather and understand how thin the line can sometimes be between life and death.

​​​​Always in my heart SW.

[Defenestrator]

My deepest condolences for your loss.

[machtuk]

Tragic, so very tragic, sadly he isn't alone, a lot of well meaning pro pilots have left us all too early. I enjoyed driving the C404 a very capable machine. I've lost a few mates like this. Rest assure that the memories don't die, we are all each owed a death so cherish those little moments you once had -)
Gone but not forgotten.

[Global Aviator]

The last few posts, very real and my condolences as well.

GA is the toughest flying we will ever do, single pilot, complex aircraft, none of the whizz bang tools of the modern aircraft. Ok some have retrofitted upgrades.

Still in my eyes, always has been that it is this flying that stays with you forever.

The true cause as stated will probably never be known, but as has been well and truly said, no one goes out looking for this to happen. The Swiss cheese lined up.

RIP fellow aviator.