Redundancies- would you take it

[Krone]

If and when the inevitable happens, should senior A scalers fall on their swords ? Should senior B scalers take the opportunity to leave the company many despise, with a pocket full of cash, and a new life to look forward to ?

Or will it be a case of compulsory layoffs or furlough, from the bottom up? Unlikely, knowing CX.

[Flying Clog]

bottom up, just like any airline worth it's salt.

[cxorcist]

bottom up, just like any airline worth it's salt.
What?!?! Lay off the cheapest and most vulnerable? No, that is counter cultural to our kind and caring employer. Let’s purge the guys with families, housing in HK, kids in schools, etc. Those are the bad ones. New joiners are good, loyal, hardworking employees. It has very little to do with money you see. CX just just wants to be fair after all. They are newly woke and progressive. Thank God we work for corporate moralists.

[Slasher1]

I would think an 'early out' package (properly negotiated)--like many other airlines--would be quite attractive to many (self included). IF the company were looking for something to mitigate layoffs (procedures are clearly defined in the COS/CA/EA/CBAs and cannot be modified as such) this is what I'd do if I were them.

By definition, it'd have to be a great deal better than the 6 months and recall rights which is the current layoff/recall protection in many of the contracts.

But the way this place historically has done business renminbi to donuts it'll be screwed up and the standard bait and switch on the cheap kind of deal.

[wongsuzie]

Simple: the most expensive swan goes first.

[Jetavia]

Last in.. first out..

[cxorcist]

Simple: the most expensive swan goes first.
Maybe Wong should switch to wrong

[boocs]

I can think of several B Scale captains that would jump at a Voluntary Redundancy package if it were offered.

b.

[LongTimeInCX]

....And a few A scale as well.
I would expect it to be done in two waves.
First the voluntary, to entice as many high paid A/B scalers as possible to POQ.
Then once those numbers are done, a second wave of involuntary layoffs, to meet the target set by the all knowing, always getting it right (out of phase!) bean counters.

[MENELAUS]

Honestly. How many A scale do you think are left ? 10. ? 5 ? It’s in that ballpark. and most who chose to extend to 65 had to come off A scale.
The last round of redundancies was back in 96 ? Maybe 98. And the deal was 6 months. Pitiful. A handful took it.

[OK4Wire]

Glob: Straight off the seniority list it's 140.

I guess some of those might be on COS18, and perhaps most have been/are on a base, so don't have the big provident fund payout left.

Added: I would have thought that in this scenario, there would be no difference to the company in cost between an A and a B scaler. Both are likely to be on COS08, on housing, and getting the P Fund. The top 300 are either topped out on salary scales, or very close. A B scaler who never left HKG might even be more expensive than an A scaler who has been on a base.

[MENELAUS]

Unlikely. If they’re on cos 08, they are no longer A scale. As a condition of signing over COS. I think the only exception would be the AKL base. As a result of the court case there.
And yes they are topped out on salary.

[Fly747]

Last in.. first out..
And don’t forget that last in first out is illegal in some of the base countries.

[Angel 8]

And which country would that be?
As far as I know, that’s the norm in any employment situation...

[Fly747]

OK maybe not illegal as such but it can’t be used as a sole criteria. You could of course do you own Google search and educate yourself but I’ve copied and pasted some info below for you.Reality: To dismiss someone fairly for redundancy you must adopt a procedure that is fair and reasonable in all circumstances. Part of this involves identifying fair selection criteria to determine those members of staff that you will retain and those you will make redundant.

The starting point is to consider criteria that are largely objective and measurable and do not discriminate against individuals who are protected from discrimination. In the past many employers adopted a policy of making redundant those with the shortest length of service (LIFO) as it was both simple and objective. However, since the enactment of equality and anti-discrimination legislation, LIFO cannot be used as the only measure to decide who is going to lose their jobs in a redundancy situation. This is because younger people are most likely to be selected for redundancy and this amounts to a disadvantage based on age and may give rise to a claim for indirect age discrimination.

[Slasher1]

OK maybe not illegal as such but it can’t be used as a sole criteria. You could of course do you own Google search and educate yourself but I’ve copied and pasted some info below for you.Reality:To dismiss someone fairly for redundancy you must adopt a procedure that is fair and reasonable in all circumstances. Part of this involves identifying fair selection criteria to determine those members of staff that you will retain and those you will make redundant.

The starting point is to consider criteria that are largely objective and measurable and do not discriminate against individuals who are protected from discrimination. In the past many employers adopted a policy of making redundant those with the shortest length of service (LIFO) as it was both simple and objective. However, since the enactment of equality and anti-discrimination legislation, LIFO cannot be used as the only measure to decide who is going to lose their jobs in a redundancy situation. This is because younger people are most likely to be selected for redundancy and this amounts to a disadvantage based on age and may give rise to a claim for indirect age discrimination.
Most of the CA’s/CBAs/EAs/COSs have (legal) specific procedures for layoff and recall. These follow the master seniority list which is effectively last in first out.

[Angel 8]

OK maybe not illegal as such but it can’t be used as a sole criteria. You could of course do you own Google search and educate yourself but I’ve copied and pasted some info below for you.Reality:To dismiss someone fairly for redundancy you must adopt a procedure that is fair and reasonable in all circumstances. Part of this involves identifying fair selection criteria to determine those members of staff that you will retain and those you will make redundant.

The starting point is to consider criteria that are largely objective and measurable and do not discriminate against individuals who are protected from discrimination. In the past many employers adopted a policy of making redundant those with the shortest length of service (LIFO) as it was both simple and objective. However, since the enactment of equality and anti-discrimination legislation, LIFO cannot be used as the only measure to decide who is going to lose their jobs in a redundancy situation. This is because younger people are most likely to be selected for redundancy and this amounts to a disadvantage based on age and may give rise to a claim for indirect age discrimination.

Oh... I... See... so you get your legal stuff of Google, so it must be correct.
How about educating yourself some manners? perhaps you should google that too.
Employment Law all over the world is more or less similar on Redundancy, with no exception.
You, on the other hand, are mixing apples and oranges.
Discrimination includes all kind of areas, and though one of them IS age, it does not apply in this case because the selection would not rely on age, it is only a pure and simple last in first out.
If you joined as a Direct entry F/O or an S/O then you will be made redundant if you were last in.

[stevef]

For anyone taking voluntary redundancy:
One thing to consider for British employees is that you won't get government housing benefit if your savings (wife/partner included) exceed £16000. So a large chunk of your farewell payment might well go on maintaining your mortgage/rent until something else turns up. The payment itself isn't taxable below £30,000 but nest eggs will go against you. Ask me how I know...

[Farman Biplane]

55 year olds are being made redundant at CX every week. A contractual redundancy will not happen as they are conveniently shedding their most experienced/expensive pilots using age discrimination already. Do not ever forget that your Google lawyers don’t have any substantive workplace “law” to use in Hong Kong.

[lucille]

You can bet your bottom dollar that a couple of bright young things with freshly minted MBAs have developed models and war-gamed the various strategies. At its most simplistic, the governing variable will be “someone’s” best guess of how long this Covid19 debacle will go on for. This guess will define how management will play this game out.
You saw how quickly the mainland airlines dispensed with their expat staff. Experience, training and quality counted for nothing. Cost cutting was the sole driver.

[Slasher1]

You can bet your bottom dollar that a couple of bright young things with freshly minted MBAs have developed models and war-gamed the various strategies. At its most simplistic, the governing variable will be “someone’s” best guess of how long this Covid19 debacle will go on for. This guess will define how management will play this game out.
You saw how quickly the mainland airlines dispensed with their expat staff. Experience, training and quality counted for nothing. Cost cutting was the sole driver.

They might think themselves bright and have MBAs.

But what they ain’t got is a crystal ball that actually works.

No doubt there will be some scheme/scam to jettison and reduce costs.

But until then they’re stuck with contracts. Some of which are quite pricey when the engines are at idle.

[Pickuptruck]

55 year olds are being made redundant at CX every week. A contractual redundancy will not happen as they are conveniently shedding their most experienced/expensive pilots using age discrimination already. Do not ever forget that your Google lawyers don’t have any substantive workplace “law” to use in Hong Kong.
Or, we had the choice, the company gave us months to decide. Can we grow a pair and stop blaming everyone else for decisions we made?

[Gnadenburg]

Instead of making fools of yourselves as usual, maybe you should read the "Redundancy" clause in your COS, except COS18 crew (since it has no meaningful redundancy clause).

That would be last on first out?

Though the politicking of those hoping to circumvent seniority always inevitable. Krone are you B Scale KA or Local Contract?

I doubt whether a redundancy package would be generous enough to see many senior pilots exercising that option. Extricating yourself from HKG at the most opportune time will take time if you have kids in schools and assets. Many will just ride on-wherever that ends up.

[AllWobbly]

[QUOTE=lightlysalted;10707294]Instead of making fools of yourselves as usual, maybe you should read the "Redundancy" clause in your COS, except COS18 crew (since it has no meaningful redundancy clause).[/QUOTE

or read the termination clause 3 months no questions asked bye bye?

[Natca]

[QUOTE=lightlysalted;10707294]Instead of making fools of yourselves as usual, maybe you should read the "Redundancy" clause in your COS, except COS18 crew (since it has no meaningful redundancy clause).[/QUOTE

or read the termination clause 3 months no questions asked bye bye?

Right but if you terminate to create a reduction, that wont hold up in court. Same thing with a cos in your box type event, if they are canceling a contract again in a poor climate then that is a hire and re hire onto a new contract situation. This will end up in court as a redundancy aswell.

[Progress Wanchai]

[QUOTE=AllWobbly;10707398]

Right but if you terminate to create a reduction, that wont hold up in court. Same thing with a cos in your box type event, if they are canceling a contract again in a poor climate then that is a hire and re hire onto a new contract situation. This will end up in court as a redundancy aswell.

A new contract being argued in court as a quasi redundancy is certainly an argument that would have lawyers salivating but few others. The company last tried this during the Asian financial crisis.

If management are half smart (big if) then they will not link a new COS with a desire for a reduction in numbers. The RIN will simply be an “unfortunate, unexpected and undesirable” consequence of insufficient crew seeing the benefits of a change of contract.

In about 2030 we’ll find out if they’re on solid legal ground. But that finding will do little for those that will be affected by a morally corrupt company.

[oriental flyer]

3 months pay for every year of service should be the benchmark. At that level the company savings are substantial with anyone on full housing and approx 10 yrs to retirement (about 50% savings on salary and allowances).
Unfortunately we have rats on our ship that will go for far less.

3 months for every year of service , I would go in a heartbeat along with a number of other more senior pilots I suspect . For someone with 25 plus years in the company and less than 5 years to retirement it’s a no brainer . One bright spark in all of this mess is that oil prices are below $30 per barrel , But this covid19 is going to decimate the airlines , the cruise ship industry and the tourism industry . It all depends how long it lasts and the level of concern or hysteria amongst the general population

[Apple Tree Yard]

"three months for every year"....what are you smoking?? At best such a scheme would be a month for every year worked plus three months. So, a 30 year pilot would be offered at best 33 months. That would also be age dependant. If you only had two years left, they would factor that so you would only get 12 months total (as a guess). If you have 5 years left, then you would probably get the full whack. However they do it, it has to save them money. They did this back in 1998, and it was much like i've just described (others with better memories can chime in). I do suspect they will do something like this, as it is the perfect opportunity to downsize the airline and get rid of their high cost (ARAPA) pilots. CX is probably never going to be this size again. Glory days well and truly over.

[Cpt. Underpants]

With oil at $30-ish a barrel, I'm waiting with baited breath for the announcement that Swires have hedged their fuel purchases for the next three years at $80/barrel. All to stabilise the business, of course, and steady the income stream (or whatever Ivan the Terrible was trying to say in that catastrophic Bloomberg interview).
This developing crisis will be yet another opportunity for Swires to asset-strip CX and make off with untold billion$, unhindered by that nuisance, the law.
Hold on folks, this is going to be a bumpy ride.

[Apple Tree Yard]

Sadly, my guess is that is exactly what they've done (again). You know that if they should have "zigged", they "zagged". Put money on it.

[Apple Tree Yard]

Just watching the US markets. Don't doubt that the world as we know it is changing. CX will certainly be changed right along with it. Considering useless upper management, political concerns, economic issues and a general falling of HK as a hub of importance, CX is doomed to a slow and inoxerable death. A colleague left 7 years ago for BA, and he told me he wanted to get out while the getting was good. Nailed it. (btw, he's a Captain there now, living in Surrey and loving life...and his wife and kids are even happier).

ps. forgot to mention their villa in Portugal they spend weekends/holidays at.

[lucille]

They might think themselves bright and have MBAs.

But what they ain’t got is a crystal ball that actually works.

No doubt there will be some scheme/scam to jettison and reduce costs.

But until then they’re stuck with contracts. Some of which are quite pricey when the engines are at idle.

Sadly, also in their models will be the crew’s reactions and the associated costs of dealing with them. They’ve had plenty of opportunity to collect this data since July 2001.

[Apple Tree Yard]

Anybody who thinks that ANY offer from management will be desirable in its details really need their head examined. I don't doubt there will likely be an offer, but it will certainly be one that only attracts the desperate. Anyone that thinks it will represent a retirement plan is really in need of help.

[Slasher1]

Anybody who thinks that ANY offer from management will be desirable in its details really need their head examined. I don't doubt there will likely be an offer, but it will certainly be one that only attracts the desperate. Anyone that thinks it will represent a retirement plan is really in need of help.

Then they can follow the contract with redundancies and pay protection. Or else wind up both in court AND arbitration. Not to mention this takes the threat of base closure away in that you couldn’t shut a base (or threaten such) in a deliberate scheme/scam to avoid contractural responsibilities and obligations. That is fraud.

[Apple Tree Yard]

I was only speaking of a possible early voluntary redundancy scheme. Used about 22 years ago to shed many high cost pilots. Probably a good time to do the same, but it won't be on very desirable terms. And btw, they can close any base they want at any time. Don't fool yourself otherwise.

[Freehills]

Stop trying to spread the fear!
All you people on this forum are worse than the media!
CX will be fine! They have lots of money and the share holders need to pay up, and if not sell their shares!
Yes there might be redundancies and it will be last in first out. But I know paying people houses off in HK are probably not helping the company, or those apartments in the four seasons.

shareholders have limited liability- they don’t need to pay up anything.

[iot]

Korean Air CEO tells employees virus is 'threat' to airline's survival

[lucille]

Then they can follow the contract with redundancies and pay protection. Or else wind up both in court AND arbitration. Not to mention this takes the threat of base closure away in that you couldn’t shut a base (or threaten such) in a deliberate scheme/scam to avoid contractural responsibilities and obligations. That is fraud.

Who will fund the long court cases with many protracted appeals.? I would doubt the cohort of “ambitious” new joiners would be too keen.

You can be sure the costs of legal manoeuvring have been included in their strategy as will their estimation of pilot solidarity. July 2001 was a watershed moment.

[Slasher1]

Who will fund the long court cases with many protracted appeals.? I would doubt the cohort of “ambitious” new joiners would be too keen.

You can be sure the costs of legal manoeuvring have been included in their strategy as will their estimation of pilot solidarity. July 2001 was a watershed moment.

Away from HKG, most contracts are adjudicated under arbitration which is relatively straightforward.

In the case of a court claim, in some more developed countries, these are usually funded on a contingency basis. So, in actuality, the company itself is funding the protracted legal battle against themselves when it is genuinely guilty of breaking a contractural provision and/or law.,

[Flex88]

If and when the inevitable happens, should senior A scalers fall on their swords ? Should senior B scalers take the opportunity to leave the company many despise, with a pocket full of cash, and a new life to look forward to ?
Or will it be a case of compulsory layoffs or furlough, from the bottom up? Unlikely, knowing CX.



USA, beginning Friday, will ban ALL flights to/From "Europe" ( not incl UK - yet?). Better hang on !!!!!

[controlledrest]

The way forward is a redundancy package which will shed some of the more expensive crew and then cut from the bottom until the airline is the right size for the demand. Park the least efficient airframes in the desert and carry on. I look forward to a return to low frequencies and long layovers.

[unitedabx]

A meeting was held on Friday 6th March to discuss pilot redundancies within the "Cathay Group of Airlines".

A number of points were discussed.

1. KA and it's future if any. Much easier to merge with "Express" ( the new preferred name id "Cathay EXPRESS" ) in a larger, leaner low cost entity.
2. Last in, first out.
3. Voluntary or involuntary redundancy ( see 2 above ).
4. Compensation. Follow the HKG Govt guidelines of after 10 years service 1 month for every year served plus 3 months. So 20 years service you get 20+3 months. Less than ten you get the contractual 6+3 months. OR years service remaining plus 3 months whichever is the lower. So say a pilot has done 30 years with 5 to go before normal retirement then the offer would be 60 months + 3 vs 30 +3. The lower being 33.
5. Tax free or not tax free.
6. Return to service. Last in first back or not.
7. Close all bases.
8. Forced redundancy with minimum payout ie 6 months plus 3.

In a mailbox near you by end of March.

[Veruka Salt]

And we’ve ordered 748i’s - you’ve seen the signed contract.

[markontop]

What if.......
Those on COS99 offered extension past retirement age 55 only if they sign across to COS18 now.
Otherwise they will certainly be let go at 55.

[oriental flyer]

If you have done 30 years with5 to go you are so far up the seniority list that redundancies won’t affect you . Therefore you would only go if you wanted to
for those on retire at 55 contracts they may not be given the option to sign over the company may use this excuse to get rid of some more expensive but much more experienced pilots
norweigan is about to lay off half of their workforce and BA is saying their very survival is at stake . I don’t believe that for a second but it’s always good to make it sound terrible when you are about to lay staff off

[Paul852]

What are these "HKG Govt guidelines" of which you speak?
The law on severance pay (https://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/ConciseGuide/11.pdf) is quite clear: HK$15,000 per year of service, capped at $390,000.
If you have something more than that in your contract of employment then great.

[unitedabx]

What are these "HKG Govt guidelines" of which you speak?
The law on severance pay (https://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/ConciseGuide/11.pdf) is quite clear: HK$15,000 per year of service, capped at $390,000.
If you have something more than that in your contract of employment then great.

Now you are showing your ignorance. Severance Pay as you have defined it is the minimum laid down by the government. The minimum. Even a domestic worker with more than 10 years with one employer gets better terms. READ your contract and there are a number of clauses in it that exclude government norms and replace them with alternatives. Bank Holidays, Sick pay, annual leave entitlements and REDUNDANCY.

FFS if you don't know your own contract what hope is there for you ?

[Paul852]

I simply asked where I might find the "the HKG Govt guidelines of after 10 years service 1 month for every year served plus 3 months." I have never seen such guidelines from the HK Government.

Moreover "Even a domestic worker with more than 10 years with one employer gets better terms." Well no. I have in my hand the mandatory Employment Contract for Domestic Helpers, and, apart from a flight back home, FDHs are entitled simply to the legal minimum as prescribed by law. (Employment Ordinance, Cap.57) In their case of course it is 2/3 * monthly salary per year of service (since they don't reach the cap of $15,000).

Frankly I am tending to concur with the view of others here that you basically just spout crap.

[Count von Altibar]

I'm surprised that Korean haven't binned all their foreign pilots by now like a few other Asian carriers have done. That's good that they haven't, hats off to KAL management this time.

[Scoreboard]

Screw all this bs... its a bunch of wannabe shiny jet pilots want left seat but no insurance company would let it happen against the company knowing they will hit a hill if they do....jesus noone reads the freaking airbus flyer and watch the amount of idiot new tc’s writing in to cover their messes and realize just how screwed up they were? How many have written in in their screwups not activating approach, or go thru loc, or cant even do a capture from above thats been written up for 20 plus years....., or a Captain is unaware that his relief commander or so has been hand flying for hours at altitude..Or arming the emergency descent......if pax only knew and understood,

I facepalm every week or so when i read that drivel from GD and how could he write that to paper revealing the dimwits that are now captains ....what the f are you thinking writing down the incompetence thats occurring....this isn't i made mistake...its worse ....just plain dumb GA **** we learnt before 1000 hours... but we call it OLR now......or what we called in our day .....” a beer in the ****ng bar story”

go ahead , offer redundancies,.....personally shove the trash that doesn’t know ****.....like the SO who fluffs the captains pillow on 777, whose tinder profile is now the laughing stock of the pilot and cabin crew community...yeah mate “ i am more flexible in my 60s than you”

as for A scale there is probably less than 150 pilots here who are.....its B scale.....which is half of ******* A scale renumeration


does even any D scale know how much A scale was ever paid and know how much they have been screwed in their following years? Cause a plane ticket aint got cheaper in 20 plus years... but your sure paid less...

last in first out ...welcome to contract...

[Dilbert68]

The contract specifies last in, first out so that is what they have to do by law. The problem is, the last few hundred in are on COS 18 so they are basically hourly paid and save very little if they are made redundant. The company can and will offer voluntary redundancies but the terms will have to be attractive enough for the highest-paid pilots to accept them. COS 99 pilots have no hope of extension now and I would not be surprised if the ones who have been extended are let go, I'm sure there must be a clause in their contracts to allow the company to do just that.
CX is going to have to downsize significantly and it will be years before it grows back to its current size, stand by for orders to be canceled and upgrades to come to a halt.

We will get through this crisis but it is going to wipe trillions of dollars from the world economy, businesses will fail and the ones who survive will be significantly weakened. The silver lining to all of this is that oil prices are low and trending lower, CX stands to make billions coming out of this as long as the fuel hedge geniuses are on SLS and not making any more of their idiotic gambles!

Stay safe everyone, ultimately there will be a vaccine this time next year. Looking forward to a COVID 19 free world.

[Apple Tree Yard]

"Looking forward to a Cov19 free world..." I'm more looking forward to the world regaining its sanity. There's been 3 deaths in HK, about 45 in the USA, and approx 5000 worldwide. Sad losses for all involved. However, SARS killed almost 300 in HK alone in 2003. In approx 2009, Swine Flu killed almost 20,000 alone in the US. Last year 80,000 americans died of the flu. Never mind car accidents, opiods, cancer etc, etc. The regular flu infects millions each year and killed 34,000 in the USA in 2018. I don't remember the entire world shutting down and driving itself into an economic depression. Time for most of the people to put on big boy pants and come back to reality. The biggest and most hysterical overreaction in modern times. (all numbers from the CDC website).

[Slasher1]

"Looking forward to a Cov19 free world..." I'm more looking forward to the world regaining its sanity. There's been 3 deaths in HK, about 45 in the USA, and approx 5000 worldwide. Sad losses for all involved. However, SARS killed almost 300 in HK alone in 2003. In approx 2009, Swine Flu killed almost 20,000 alone in the US. Last year 80,000 americans died of the flu. Never mind car accidents, opiods, cancer etc, etc. The regular flu infects millions each year and killed 34,000 in the USA alone in 2018. I don't remember the entire world shutting itself down and driving it into an economic depression. Time for most of the people to put on big boy pants and come back to reality. The biggest and most hysterical overreaction in modern times. (all numbers from the CDC website).

Yes — this.

The overreaction and panic has always scared me a great more than the disease. Especially with all the media hype. An internet created crisis.

It doesn’t help that the ChiComms lie about everything and then some creating a credibility gap.

And that some are using the event as a political weapon.

To be sure, during an outbreak of ANYTHING cruise ships and airplanes are not good places to be and if a person doesn’t have to be on one it doesn’t hurt not to be. But the crazy capital markets and halting of normal life seems just that — crazy.

Things will restart with a vengeance but until that airplanes get parked. No big deal ride out the storm and there’ll be lots of flying to be had downline. Whether that’s at CX or anywhere else. But perhaps this is a golden opportunity to move on IF a decent package were issued.

Can’t see the on the cheap’ airline as doing this though.

[main_dog]

Interesting graphical presentation of Covid19 vs other diseases:

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/

[ACMS]

HK, Singapore and Taiwan have low numbers because they took drastic measures early on, social distancing etc etc.

The west needs to do this quickly, it may already be too late.

[Paul852]

The problem with this is that it will keep coming around unless enough people are exposed to it to develop herd immunity.

[oriental flyer]

Main dog , the problem is that UK is doing absolutely nothing to prevent the spread of this viral disease . The NHS is nowhere near ready for the wave of infections that are about to hit them . The UK should have banned large gatherings they haven’t . People will die because of a lack of respirators which is going to be the biggest issue . Elderly people those undergoing chemo or on drugs to suppress the immune system . COPD sufferers, basically anyone with an underlying health condition may need a bed in an ICU and the doctors much like Italy will have to decide if they are going to throw granny out to give her bed to a younger person , as ACMS correctly stated HK Singapore and Taiwan took early corrective steps plus viruses do not like hot humid conditions with lots of sunlight . But they thrive in cramped crowded conditions.
we will see how Boris’s policies work out .. I read an article that suggested that the hospitals in the USA will be overrun in 8 days we shall see .
good luck to everyone , stay safe out there

[Fly747]

There is no chance of redundancies, training is still going on.
I happened to spot on Flt Radar that KA were doing base training this morning in a 320 at Macau.
What a waste of time, money, and effort.

[controlledrest]

Plenty of money to spend on training...yet again an old bastard who should get a life (Checker who is now a Sim Checker) has been doing checks without a valid licence. Bunch of poor sods have to redo PCs. Why can't CX manage this? How hard is it to track licences, medicals, ratings etc? Too hard for an outfit which always watches the pennies, never the pounds.

[Dilbert68]

The problem with this is that it will keep coming around unless enough people are exposed to it to develop herd immunity.

You don't develop immunity after recovering from this virus, ie you can get it again.

[AllWobbly]

There is no chance of redundancies, training is still going on.
I happened to spot on Flt Radar that KA were doing base training this morning in a 320 at Macau.
What a waste of time, money, and effort.

I don't share your optimism.

[ACMS]

You don't develop immunity after recovering from this virus, ie you can get it again.

I’ve seen a lot of reports on just that and it’s not proven.

[OK4Wire]

Agree, ACMS. By all accounts, you won't get it again (but you can get another strain, if it develops). That's why one flu vaccine is not enough for the elderly, and each vaccine only covers some strains.

[Paul852]

You don't develop immunity after recovering from this virus, ie you can get it again.
Got a reliable, peer-reviewed source for that please?

[Dan Winterland]

Agree, ACMS. By all accounts, you won't get it again (but you can get another strain, if it develops).

This is typical of all Coronaviruses. The characteristic spikes are a defence against anti-bodies latching onto the virus, and if these spikes are subject to mutation, then 'last years' antibodies wont work. This is why the common cold and norovirus come back each year and re-infect, and a new flu vaccine has to be produced every season. SARS didn't come back, we don't know about this one yet.

[Oasis]

Peer reviewed takes a long time, and this has only been going on for a few months, so it takes too long to get peer reviewed advice at the moment.