Pan Am flights to London Gatwick

[PrincePembroke]

Pan Am flights to London Gatwick.
Can any of you chaps enlighten me as to the routes/dates that PAA flew to Gatwick?
I recall seeing B707, DC-10, TriStar, B727, A310 and A300 used over a number of years.
Would the A300 in 1985 have been from Germany?
I was told that PAA brought the first ever 707 into Gatwick in 1959 on a diversion (Heathrow?)

[bean]

PAA succeded in landing a 707 at northolt in 1958/59/60
But that"s another story!!!

[BACsuperVC10]

Pan Am flights to London Gatwick.
Can any of you chaps enlighten me as to the routes/dates that PAA flew to Gatwick?
I recall seeing B707, DC-10, TriStar, B727, A310 and A300 used over a number of years.
Would the A300 in 1985 have been from Germany?
I was told that PAA brought the first ever 707 into Gatwick in 1959 on a diversion (Heathrow?)

I'm pretty sure they did LGW-MIA with a DC10. Date wise can't be sure, but it was when they had given up LHR slots.

[rog747]

Spose this thread should be in H & N

Pan American at LGW saw 707 on regular affinity charters there from as early as the late 1960's (TWA too) along with the likes of World, TIA. Saturn, Universal, ONA, AFA and Capitol.
Any very early flights were likely diversions.
German IGS Jet feeder flights were into LHR with 727's usually based at Tegel but Pan Am had a German presence from early 1950's starting at TempelHof
Boeing 727-200, Airbus A-310 and A-300 operated in and out of Tegel until 1991.

Pan Am scheduled flights into LGW came along many years later (Bermuda 11?) and infact LGW was their last ditch London base until their sad and sorry demise.
Delta had begun operating Pan Am's transatlantic routes on November 1, 1991, becoming overnight a major carrier across the Atlantic. Acquisitions included Pan Am's New York to Europe routes, hub operations at Frankfurt and New York-JFK, and Pan Am's Miami—London and Detroit—London routes.
London operations were from Gatwick airport only; Pan Am had earlier sold its London-Heathrow access and transpacific routes to United Airlines in 1985.

[SWBKCB]

Didn't Pan Am first appear on scheduled services into LGW when they bought National ans used DC-10's on the Miami?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

They flew MIA-LGW at the end once they left LHR in 1991, the 1985 sale was the Pacific.

[Airbubba]

Pan Am flights to London Gatwick.
Can any of you chaps enlighten me as to the routes/dates that PAA flew to Gatwick?

I think the 747 ex-JFK, MIA and SFO, the A310 from JFK, IAD and DTW and probably the 727 out of TXL operated out of Gatwick from April 1991 to the Pan Am shutdown in December 1991 [or probably until November 1 when Delta took over the routes as rog747 notes above - Airbubba]. The LHR gates had been sold to United. I don't know about the earlier PAA LGW operations, they were before my time.

PAA succeded in landing a 707 at northolt in 1958/59/60
But that"s another story!!!

Well, I don't think they did it three years in a row. ;) But that story was still corporate legend when I wore a white hat three decades later. One version said that the plane was emptied and the crew ferried to LHR where they were then sacked. After some research on another online forum it appears that the captain years later flew his retirement flight in the left seat of a B-747SP HNL-SFO.

The Captain of the Pan Am B707 which landed at Northolt instead of Heathrow was (allegedly) asked by ATC for his intentions. "I guess I'll take up Chicken Farming" was the reply.

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/528264-boeing-747-dreamlifter-lands-wrong-airport-4.html#post8165751

[WHBM]

Pan Am earlier in the 1980s did a LGW-Houston flight, with an L1011-500, which the Bermuda Agreement did not allow at Heathrow as it was outside the geographical US boundary. Later, when they sold their Heathrow operation to United in 1990, they continued to run Miami and Detroit flights from Gatwick with the A310, as only two US carriers were allowed at Heathrow.

The Miami flights worked through a notable range of carriers around 1990, almost a different one every year, several US carriers had a shot at it - United, Continental, and others.

The German flights didn't operate nonstop to Berlin but went through other German points. They were part of the sale of Pan Am London routes to United, separate from the rest of Europe which went to Delta. United positioned a few 727s over to Europe to run these and other European connecting flights for a while, which all came together each late morning at Heathrow where the 727s parked on the remote stands between T3 and the northern runway.

[Davidsa]

Pan Am flights to London Gatwick.
Can any of you chaps enlighten me as to the routes/dates that PAA flew to Gatwick?
I recall seeing B707, DC-10, TriStar, B727, A310 and A300 used over a number of years.
Would the A300 in 1985 have been from Germany?
I was told that PAA brought the first ever 707 into Gatwick in 1959 on a diversion (Heathrow?)

In September 1980 (or it might have been 1981) I came back from Mexico City on a PAA Tristar. The planned destination was LGW but in the event we diverted to LHR because of fog.

The flight in fact originated at Guatemala City, going via Mexico City and Houston. I remember the flight quite well as my mother-in-law got on at Guatemala and I joined her in Mexico. Landing at the "wrong" airport caused considerable panic in my wife and father who were meeting us - no moble phones in those days!
I'm sure the aircraft was a Tri-Star. I think the flight number changed at Houston-

[AMC737]

Just to add what has already been said, ignoring charters Pan Am had 2 stints at Gatwick, 2 July 1980 they started Gatwick to Houston, I believe this lasted until 1983 and was flown by L1011s and 747's, as has been mentioned Houston could not be served from Heathrow due to Bermuda II and by merging with National Pan Am gained quite a presence at Houston.

They returned in May 1991, having sold their Heathrow rights to United, ending service to Heathrow on 3 April 1991 however there was a gap in service as I presume they hand't been able to set up operations at Gatwick in time so United actually flew Heathrow Miami for a month. United did not buy the Miami and Detroit routes so Pan Am started these from Gatwick from 18 May 1991, Detroit was an A310, Miami a 747. Delta bought all of Pan Ams transatlantic routes and took over from 1 November 1991 ending Pan Ams presence in London.

Some of the dates might be slightly out but that is a rough idea.

[Airbubba]

Later, when they sold their Heathrow operation to United in 1990, they continued to run Miami and Detroit flights from Gatwick with the A310, as only two US carriers were allowed at Heathrow.

MIA-LGW on an A310? I sure don't remember that one...

[BEA 71]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1957x1374/pan_am_747_lgw_xl_54e6d73059c0fc63a3edf9d8f7c0cbacf7b00a22.j pg

It was difficult identifying the date in my passport, in the end I succeded.
The photo was taken at LGW on 15 May 1991.

BEA 71

[pabely]

MIA-LGW on an A310? I sure don't remember that one...
A quick Google brings up a A310 lining up for 08R on Flickr, doesn't say which route but proves they did visit

[Airbubba]

A quick Google brings up a A310 lining up for 08R on Flickr, doesn't say which route but proves they did visit

I flew the A310 out of MIA and LGW but as far as I can remember never between the two. With winter winds and fuel tank temperature restrictions the 'bus sometimes had trouble making it from European airports to JFK without a fuel stop in Gander or Bangor (free lobster for the crew at BGR, hard to sneak by the pax though ;)).

[The Range]

And what really made Pan Am to go under?

[BEA 71]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1920x1440/n806pa_at_txl_4e42d55a06287db4474f6c5017fe8c5a0637e87d.jpg

This is N806PA at Berlin-Tegel ( TXL ), ca. 1987. Flights operated mixed domestic/international services,
i.e. TXL-HAM-JFK, they also were workhorses on the TXL-FRA route, I am not sure about international
connections. These years were very confusing, United and TWA were operating B 727´s into London,
then widebodies to the U.S.. All under the same flight number.

[rog747]

And what really made Pan Am to go under?

Bit of a combo really - Lockerbie and fines for security issues - A way too generous frequent flyer program that meant many seats were free - old aircraft - Gulf War 1 - and of course that meant fuel costs.They were close to making a deal regarding continued operations with TWA on the 3rd December 1991. As such the airline opened for business as usual on 4th of December, however, was shut down within an hour and the airline was gone.

[BEA 71]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1920x1311/panam_b_747_212b_n723pa_dbbeca9a5ec40be356f3bba9a03b400d5ee0 286b.jpg

Also shot on 15th May 1991 - B 747-212B N723PA at LGW. Apologies for the poor quality, photos were taken
from a hotel room. It very much looks like there is a PanAm 707 parked behind the Jumbo.

Travelled on a British Airways DC 10 from LGW to HOU the day after. Routing was MUC-LHR then by bus to Gatwick
and LGW-HOU. Travelling from Continental Europe to longhaul destinations via LGW could be a pain in the neck.

[surely not]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1325/n510pa_lockheed_l_1011_500_tristar_pan_am_lgw_1982_oct_24_c1 9af0c3caebda32b00f3a5e9a5b7039d4f3d20a.jpg
This was one of the Pan-Am Tristar flights to LGW. N510PA, Lockheed L-1011-500 Tristar, Pan Am, LGW, 1982 Oct 24. I took this photo whilst working at LGW

As I recall, when they first started the scheduled services into LGW, Pan-Am sent a representative down from LHR to oversee the handling.

[Airbubba]

This is N806PA at Berlin-Tegel ( TXL ), ca. 1987. Flights operated mixed domestic/international services,
i.e. TXL-HAM-JFK, they also were workhorses on the TXL-FRA route, I am not sure about international
connections.

Three decades ago ETOPS twins were a novelty on the NAT tracks and the A310 was relatively slow cruising at mach .8 compared to other traffic. 747's, L1011's and the like usually did something like .86. The Sky-Gods on the Whale would kid us about getting trailing edge bird strikes on the wing. You could bump up the speed on the A310 to try to maintain separation but at .82 the fuel flow rose to the point that you would eat into your contingency reserves and you might have to make an extra stop.

For better fuel efficiency you wanted to go high as the aircraft got lighter but the fuel temp was limited to no colder than 3 degrees C. above the fuel freeze point (or something like that on the Pratt motors, I knew it for the oral exam, I swear ;)). You could descend to try to warm the fuel but that ate gas as did increasing the mach.

TXL had an uber-senior A310 pilot base and I think JFK was the only other A310 pilot base. The A310 aircraft went as far as Karachi to the east and west to the domestic Pan Am route system and down to South America.

[Peter47]

I remember on one trip in the 80s seeing four Pan Am aircraft on the ground at LGW, one scheduled (IAH) & three charters - I think that two were 747s. I know that they dipped in & out of charters. Does anyone have more details?

I also remember on one occasion (a Saturday around 1980) that People Express, when I think that they had a single 747, have a flight from EWR that was delayed by several hours. Eventually the flight landed operated by a Pan Am 747. Presumably People chartered it at short notice from PA & bussed their pax to JFK. PA must have had a spare crew in London for the return flight. Interestingly enough the ramp handling was undertaken by Gatwick Handling who handled PA at the time & not British Airways who handled PE.

[WHBM]

The time to see Pan Am charters was whenever the US President was in town. They seemed first choice for the "press charter" by the news media that followed the circus around. I recall one description by a journalist of life on board these during such a trip, on a Pan Am 747. They had apparently decided that, because it was a charter, aviation rules did not apply, so seatbelts were not mandatory and you could stand up during takeoff. And apparently quite a number did. What childish idiots.

[Musket90]

I worked at LGW late 70's to early 80's and remember vividly Panam Tristar -500's operating a Houston schedule.as said starting early 80's. Panam also operated one off charters from LGW to other US destinations. I never saw a Panam B747 operate the Houston service during this period.

[Sotonsean]

Spose this thread should be in H & N

Pan American at LGW saw 707 on regular affinity charters there from as early as the late 1960's (TWA too) along with the likes of World, TIA. Saturn, Universal, ONA, AFA and Capitol.
Any very early flights were likely diversions.
German IGS Jet feeder flights were into LHR with 727's usually based at Tegel but Pan Am had a German presence from early 1950's starting at TempelHof
Boeing 727-200, Airbus A-310 and A-300 operated in and out of Tegel until 1991.

Pan Am scheduled flights into LGW came along many years later (Bermuda 11?) and infact LGW was their last ditch London base until their sad and sorry demise.
Delta had begun operating Pan Am's transatlantic routes on November 1, 1991, becoming overnight a major carrier across the Atlantic. Acquisitions included Pan Am's New York to Europe routes, hub operations at Frankfurt and New York-JFK, and Pan Am's Miami—London and Detroit—London routes.
London operations were from Gatwick airport only; Pan Am had earlier sold its London-Heathrow access and transpacific routes to United Airlines in 1985.

Rog747

You have accurately summed up the history of Pan Am at LGW, there's not much to add to your detailed account of the airline's history at the airport.

As you have already correctly stated Pan Am were frequent visitor's at LGW during the 1960's and 70's with Boeing 707's on affinity charters but the airline's first scheduled flight to the airport occurred on the 01 July 1980 from IAH Houston to LGW.

Pan Am operated a daily flight from LGW to IAH operated by a L1011-500 from 02 July 1980 departing at 11.30. (I was on the spectators balcony the day of the first flight)

From the 23 September 1980 Pan Am LGW to IAH operated five times weekly over the seasonal period.

As Rog747 has clearly and accurately pointed out Houston was Gatwick-ed due to Bermuda II.

After Pan Am had acquired National Airlines in 1980 it was not uncommon to see the former airline's DC10-30's operating on IAH-LGW although they were a rather rare appearance. Even the odd B747 was used by Pan Am on IAH-LGW but they were far more rarer to see on the route.

By the start of the IATA summer schedule in 1983 Pan Am had been discontinued IAH-LGW. IAH-LGW was then awarded to Continental Airlines.

Rog747 has given a very accurate account of the history of Pan Am at LGW from 1991 after they had discontinued operations at LHR.

Although LHR had multiple movements by Pan Am and TWA during the 1980's and from 1991 onwards American Airlines and United Airlines it was LGW that offered far more of a variety in regards to US operators purely down to Bermuda II.

During that period LGW had the following US airlines and US destinations although not all of them serving the airport at the same time, they included the following.

Air Florida... Miami, Tampa
Air Total... Pittsburgh
American Airlines... Boston, Chicago, Dallas/Ft Worth, Miami, Nashville, New York JFK, Raleigh/Durham, St Louis
Arrow Air... Denver, Tampa
Braniff International... Dallas/Ft Worth
Continental Airlines... Cleveland, Denver, Houston, Miami, Newark
Delta... Atlanta, Boston, Cincinnati, Detroit, New York JFK, Orlando
Eastern Airlines... Miami
Northwest Orient... Boston, Detroit, Minneapolis/St Paul
Pan Am... Detroit, Houston, Miami
Peoplexpress... Newark
Piedmont Airlines... Charlotte
TWA Trans World Airlines... Baltimore, New York JFK, Pittsburgh, St Louis
US Airways... Baltimore, Charlotte, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
Western Airlines... Anchorage, Denver, Honolulu
World Airways... Baltimore, Boston

re-edited due to the fact that I had completely overlooked American Airlines and thanks to AMC737 who kindly reminded me of a couple of mistakes as in Continental Airlines not having served Boston and Delta having served Boston, I got the two airline's mixed up.

[Sotonsean]

BEA 71

With regards to your post 18 showing the Pan Am Boeing 747 at the satellite at LGW.

That's a Pan Am A310 on the opposite side to the Pan Am B747 not a Pan Am B707.
​​
Pan Am Boeing 707's had long gone by the time that your photo was taken in 1991. The last scheduled flights by Pan Am Boeing 707's took place in 1981, the year that they were finally retired from service by the airline.

The Pan Am Boeing 747 would have been operating the Miami flight whereas as the Pan Am A310 would be operating the Detroit flight.

[Sotonsean]

Here is the timetable for Pan Am IAH-LGW

Effective 01 July 1980

PA 90 IAH 20.00 LGW 09.15 DAILY L15 NON STOP
PA 91 LGW 11.30 IAH 15.40 DAILY L15 NON STOP

Effective 23 September 1980

PA 90 IAH 20.00 LGW 09.15 DAILY L15 NON STOP except Tuesday Wednesday
PA 91 LGW 11.30 IAH 15.40 DAILY L15 NON STOP except Wednesday Thursday

​​​​

[AMC737]

An excellent post Sotonsean, just to add to the extensive info you have already posted, pretty much every US carrier that flew schedules to the UK has flown to Gatwick at some point - the one exception being United who only ever had a charter series to Gatwick prior to starting Heathrow in April 1991.

In addition to your list

American Airlines took over Braniff's Dallas/Ft Worth in May 1982 following their collapse, in addition they bought Continentals Miami route in 1989/90, which was previously Easterns and just prior to starting Heathrow in July 1991 had started flights to Chicago, the route authority purchased from TWA but having to start ops at Gatwick until they got Heathrow authority. Over the years in addition they have also flown Boston, New York JFK, Nashville, Raleigh/Durham and St Louis from Gatwick, the latter after the TWA takeover.

Delta flew to Boston and took over Pan Ams Miami route in 1991, I don't think Continental ever flew Boston Gatwick.

TWA also flew to Pittsburgh in the 1980's, it also moved Philadelphia from Heathrow in July 1991 as this was the only Heathrow route not sold to American as its sale was blocked by the US authorities, this was flown from Gatwick until sold to US Air along with Baltimore.

[WHBM]

Interesting notes above. I think the first US scheduled carrier at Gatwick was Braniff in 1971. Passing through this period with a wide range of US operators as documented, we are back today with none. Sure there are the UK-based operations to some US leisure destinations, but the previous tradition has gone and these flights take few American travellers. I can't recall who were the last US carrier to depart. The old Gatwick Express train, with the British traditional doors where you had to slide down the window and reach for the outside handle on arrival, was always a particular challenge for them, and I, and doubtless others here as well, over time released quite a number of stuck US travellers from the train :)

There was however a considerable US presence before 1971, as it was the major UK point for affinity charter operators, or "Supplementals" as the US described them, principally in the summertime. Names such as World, Capitol, Transamerica, Universal, American Flyers, and even some new names towards the end in the 1980s like Arista, with the stretched DC-8 becoming their aircraft of choice. These carriers had as their all-year work flights for the US military when they had a major presence in Europe, with Frankfurt as a principal node but also other points as well, even Mildenhall, and they, doubtless with some scheduling dexterity, managed to link this work, a lot of which was required one way, with the commercial operations on the return leg. You might find various morning positioning flights from Gatwick to Frankfurt or vice-versa, and other combinations, tying it all together. Actually not always that dexterous, there were plenty of accounts of long-arranged summer affinity charters being pushed by one or two days either way to suit later US military requirements, or departures 8 hours late which, few were told, was actually prearranged, to suit crew overnighting times.

[Sotonsean]

An excellent post Sotonsean, just to add to the extensive info you have already posted, pretty much every US carrier that flew schedules to the UK has flown to Gatwick at some point - the one exception being United who only ever had a charter series to Gatwick prior to starting Heathrow in April 1991.

In addition to your list

American Airlines took over Braniff's Dallas/Ft Worth in May 1982 following their collapse, in addition they bought Continentals Miami route in 1989/90, which was previously Easterns and just prior to starting Heathrow in July 1991 had started flights to Chicago, the route authority purchased from TWA but having to start ops at Gatwick until they got Heathrow authority. Over the years in addition they have also flown Boston, New York JFK, Nashville, Raleigh/Durham and St Louis from Gatwick, the latter after the TWA takeover.

Delta flew to Boston and took over Pan Am Miami route in 1991, I don't think Continental ever flew Boston Gatwick.

TWA also flew to Pittsburgh in the 1980's, it also moved Philadelphia from Heathrow in July 1991 as this was the only Heathrow route not sold to American as its sale was blocked by the US authorities, this was flown from Gatwick until sold to US Air along with Baltimore.

I had completely overlooked the fact that American Airlines also flew to Boston, Nashville, Raleigh/Durham and St Louis.

Obviously American Airlines flew to St Louis after the demise of TWA Trans World Airlines in 2001.

Your absolutely correct when you state that Continental Airlines never served Boston from LGW I was getting confused with Delta. It does get a bit confusing when it comes with what US airline flew to what US destinations during this period but I like to think that I've covered it as thoroughly as I can by memory alone.

I had also forgotten about TWA Trans World Airlines flying to Pittsburgh from LGW. They briefly served Pittsburgh for one year in 1989 then Air Total briefly took over the route. Both airlines used the L1011. It was Air Total first and only scheduled transatlantic flight as the airline was basically a charter carrier similar to American Trans Air and Rich International who were also both present at LGW during the same period.

​​​​​​I didn't mention who took over from Braniff International on Dallas or other airline's such as Eastern taking over from Air Florida or Continental Airlines replacing Eastern on Miami as we're obviously discussing the activities of Pan Am at LGW.

Perhaps that could be for another thread as many US airlines came and went during that period. That's why I added that not all airlines and routes operated at the same time at the top of my list.

But as your mentioning Braniff International.

Braniff International went bankrupt on Wednesday 12 May 1982. American Airlines that had originally applied for DFW to LGW and failed in their application to Braniff International took over the route less than two weeks later on the 26 May 1982 flying the route with their small fleet of Boeing 747-123's. From Monday 16 August 1982 American Airlines replaced the Boeing 747-123 on DFW to LGW using their fleet of DC10-30's which were far more suitable for the route.

If you don't mind I might re-edit my previous post to add and delete my errors but I won't go ahead if members think that it's inappropriate to do so (please let me one way or another before I do so)

[Sotonsean]

Interesting notes above. I think the first US scheduled carrier at Gatwick was Braniff in 1971. Passing through this period with a wide range of US operators as documented, we are back today with none. Sure there are the UK-based operations to some US leisure destinations, but the previous tradition has gone and these flights take few American travellers. I can't recall who were the last US carrier to depart. The old Gatwick Express train, with the British traditional doors where you had to slide down the window and reach for the outside handle on arrival, was always a particular challenge for them, and I, and doubtless others here as well, over time released quite a number of stuck US travellers from the train :)

There was however a considerable US presence before 1971, as it was the major UK point for affinity charter operators, or "Supplementals" as the US described them, principally in the summertime. Names such as World, Capitol, Transamerica, Universal, American Flyers, and even some new names towards the end in the 1980s like Arista, with the stretched DC-8 becoming their aircraft of choice. These carriers had as their all-year work flights for the US military when they had a major presence in Europe, with Frankfurt as a principal node but also other points as well, even Mildenhall, and they, doubtless with some scheduling dexterity, managed to link this work, a lot of which was required one way, with the commercial operations on the return leg. You might find various morning positioning flights from Gatwick to Frankfurt or vice-versa, and other combinations, tying it all together. Actually not always that dexterous, there were plenty of accounts of long-arranged summer affinity charters being pushed by one or two days either way to suit later US military requirements, or departures 8 hours late which, few were told, was actually prearranged, to suit crew overnighting times.

Braniff International was indeed the first US scheduled carrier at LGW but that occurred in February 1978 not in 1971.

Deregulation happened in the USA in 1977 the same year that Bermuda II was rubber stamped by the UK Department of Transport and the US equivalent.

Bermuda II allowed additional airlines and routes between the United States of America and the United Kingdom and was signed on the 23 July 1977.

Two airline's from each country the United Kingdom and the United States of America were initially awarded route authority to open up new routes between the USA and London. With Bermuda II in place the London airport would be London Gatwick.

No new entrants were allowed into London Heathrow Airport from the start of 1977 with all new entrants to the London market but not including UK domestic being forced to use London Gatwick Airport instead. Under Bermuda II that also meant that any new entrants from the USA wishing to fly to London would have to use LGW and also any incumbent airline wishing to launch new destinations not listed under the previous arrangement would have to use LGW as their London gateway hence Pan Am an incumbent airline at LHR having to use LGW for their Houston flight and British Airways having to use LGW for their New Orleans flight. There were three reasons for this at the time.

1) The UK Government declared that London Heathrow Airport was full.
2) The UK Government via the British Airports Authority were spending millions into making London Gatwick Airport a credible second London gateway and wanted to secure more airlines.
3) Bermuda II.

Braniff International was the first US airline to be awarded scheduled route authority across the Atlantic after Bermuda II was signed and they commenced their first pre-inaugural non fare paying flight from Dallas to London Gatwick on Tuesday 28 February 1978 with their flagship aircraft Boeing 747 N601BN (Big Orange).

Regular scheduled flights were planned to operate from the 01 March 1978 but due to a dispute at the airline this did not occur.

The first scheduled fare paying flight by Braniff International on their newly awarded transatlantic flight between Dallas and London Gatwick happend on 18 March 1982, again it was flown by their flagship aircraft Boeing 747 N601BN (Big Orange)

During the early 1970's and specifically in 1973 Braniff International operated upto a total of six affinity flights into LGW during the summer months. These flights were not scheduled flights they were affinity charters similar to those seen at LGW at the time by America Flyers, Capitol Airlines, Eastern Airlines, Modern Air, ONA Overseas National Airways, Pan Am, Saturn Airways, TIA Trans International Airlines, TWA Trans World Airlines, United Airlines, Universal Airlines, World Airways.

The only major US airlines during that period that didn't fly affinity charters into LGW were Delta Air Lines and Northwest Orient whereas the majority of the others did.

Delta were the second US airline to be awarded route authority after Bermuda II was signed to fly across the Atlantic and they commenced their first flight between Atlanta and London Gatwick on Sunday 30 April 1978, flight DL10 with two L1011 leased from TWA Trans World Airlines because their fleet of Tristars didn't have the range to fly the route nonstop. Delta eventually received the L15 (TriStar 500) that we're more than capable of flying from Atlanta to LGW nonstop.

As part of Bermuda II only one airline from each country were allowed to fly the route for upto six consecutive IATA seasons, that included both summer and winter seasons combined which equated to three years before another airline from the opposite country could fly on the same route.

A few examples of this are.

BCAL were awarded route authority to fly from LGW to Houston in July 1977 which meant that Pan Am could not start Houston to LGW untill July 1980.

Delta as stated above were awarded Atlanta to LGW in April 1978 which meant that BCAL could not start LGW to Atlanta until April 1981.

Braniff International were awarded route authority to fly from Dallas to LGW in February 1978 which meant that BCAL could not start LGW to Dallas until February 1981 although they didn't actually commence Dallas until late April 1981 due to late delivery of a DC10-30.

With regards to Laker Airways and their planned no thrills low cost SkyTrain service from London to New York which was first announced at the Savoy Hotel in London on the 30 June 1971 it would take many years for Sir Freddie Laker to achieve his goal until it finally came into reality in September 1977.

It would appear that Laker's applications having been turned down by the government's on both sides of the Atlantic on numerous occasions was not initially part of Bermuda II but could well have been part of it being signed in the first place.

Laker Airways were finally awarded route authority to fly from LGW to New York JFK in 1977 and the inaugural flight was on Monday 26 September 1977. The UK Department of Transport gave Laker Airways special preference before the commencement of Bermuda II after year's of campaiging by Sir Freddie and many objections from the incumbent airlines such as British Airways. The agreement finally allowed Sir Freddie Laker to operate his no thrills low cost service to New York with Los Angeles starting a year later on Tuesday 26 September 1978 and Miami starting on 06 October 1979.

The history of aviation during that period was a beautiful thing, unlike anything that we witness today.

I'm sure that I have made some errors but obviously feel free to correct me if needed as that's what forums like this are all about but Wikipedia has a page dedicated to Bermuda II if anyone is interested.

This is probably a good topic for Aviation History and Nostalgia forum rather than Airports Airlines and Routes forum as Skipness started a similar topic regarding Pan Am at LGW only a few months ago in the Aviation History and Nostalgia forum but it didn't seem to attract as much interest as this one appears to have.

I wouldn't mind starting a dedicated "Scandinavian charters at London Stansted Airport in the 70's and 80's" in the Aviation History and Nostalgia forum if anyone is interested in participating!

Have a great Sunday 🤗

[Sotonsean]

Here is the timetable for Pan Am IAH-LGW

Effective 01 July 1980

PA 90 IAH 20.00 LGW 09.15 DAILY L15 NON STOP
PA 91 LGW 11.30 IAH 15.40 DAILY L15 NON STOP

Effective 23 September 1980

PA 90 IAH 20.00 LGW 09.15 DAILY L15 NON STOP except Tuesday Wednesday
PA 91 LGW 11.30 IAH 15.40 DAILY L15 NON STOP except Wednesday Thursday

​​​​
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1200/s_l1600_50edf2c857d0f2085ae4a1d8e9bacce056e1ed82.jpg

[Musket90]

Not sure why it operated
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_8495_2a652b2f2b5f8a9357f29d88b2dbad7254638d67.jpg

[rog747]

Britannia AW had a few Pan Am 727-100 subs

[virginblue]

Rog747

Air Florida... Miami, Tampa
Arrow Air... Denver, Tampa
Air Total... Baltimore
Braniff International... Dallas/Ft Worth
Continental Airlines... Boston, Cleveland, Denver, Houston, Miami, Newark
Delta... Atlanta, Cincinnati, Detroit, New York JFK, Orlando
Eastern Airlines... Miami
Northwest Orient... Boston, Detroit, Minneapolis/St Paul
Pan Am... Detroit, Houston, Miami
Peoplexpress... Newark
Piedmont Airlines... Charlotte
TWA Trans World Airlines... Baltimore, New York JFK, St Louis
US Airways... Baltimore, Charlotte, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
Western Airlines... Anchorage, Denver, Honolulu
World Airways... Baltimore, Boston

Fascinating stuff, thanks. You mentioned PA's acquisition of National. Didn't National serve LGW in its own right from MIA (like a couple of other European destinations - I recall FRA, for example)

[WHBM]

Fascinating stuff, thanks. You mentioned PA's acquisition of National. Didn't National serve LGW in its own right from MIA (like a couple of other European destinations - I recall FRA, for example)No, National were always at Heathrow, they just sneaked in before the Bermuda rules described above were implemented.

Now, National's first few years on LHR-Miami were not with their own aircraft, but on chartered DC8s from supplemental Airlift, who painted up two of their DC8-54F into National colours, although only one was required for the daily round trip. This was because, like most of the US mainstream domestic carriers of the day, National may have had DC8s in the fleet but had no aircraft equipped for overwater intercontinental flights, no full raft provision, HF radio, overwater training, or any such. It was a good contract for Airlift, much of whose business came from the US military which needed this full kit, flying to Europe, South-East Asia, etc. And so, as only one of the two DC8 was required, and as Airlift's small fleet of them did other affinity and military transatlantic charter work, it's quite feasible that the second aircraft turned up at Gatwick, or Mildenhall, or wherever, from time to time in full National colours, though it would have been on an Airlift flight number.

[Sotonsean]

WHBM

You have clearly described and precisely explained National Airlines leasing the two DC8-54F's from Airlift for their Miami to LHR route.

National Airlines inaugurated Miami to LHR on Tuesday 16 June 1970.

Bermuda II was signed by the US and the UK on the 23 July 1977.

To say that National Airlines "just sneaked in" is rather inaccurate as there was just over 7 year's between National Airlines being given route authority for Miami to LHR and Bermuda II being signed.

As you have already commented upon, National Airlines initially used the DC8-54F on Miami to LHR in 1970.

From 1971 National Airlines briefly used their B747-100 on the route, the airline had three in their fleet at the time having been one of the original operators of the type.

From 1972 National Airlines had replaced the B747-100 on the route by the DC10-30 of which they had five in their fleet which the airline had ordered for their expanding European routes that included Amsterdam, Frankfurt, London LHR, Paris Orly, Zurich.

On January 07 1980 the acquisition of National Airlines was completed by Pan Am taking over the airline's fleet and network. Pan Am continued to utilize the former National Airlines maintenance base and headquarters building until Pan Am ceased operations in December 1991.

Between 1970 and 1978 there were only three US airline's operating scheduled transatlantic flights between the USA and Europe, these were National Airlines, Pan Am and TWA Trans World Airlines.

Between 16 June 1970 and 09 January 09 1980, LHR had three US airline's operating from the USA which were the three listed above. This went down to two airline's after Pan Am acquired National Airlines on 09 January 1980.

Along with the passenger operations by the US airline's into LHR, under the original Bermuda 1 agreement it also allowed one cargo airline each from the USA and the UK to use LHR.

These were the following.

BOAC Cargo and from 01 January 1974 British Airways Cargo

Seaboard World Airlines and from 01 October 1980 with Flying Tiger Line after they acquired the former.

Incidentally Seaboard World Airlines were the first airline to fly a B747 freighter service between the USA and the UK.

[WHBM]

I believe in the 747 era, National ran them to London 3 days a week, and DC8s the others. Whether this was a regulatory capacity restriction or just reflected what they thought the demand would be, especially in winter when their size better suited the JFK-Maimi route anyway, I don't recall. When the smaller DC-10-30s came along they ran daily. The leased DC8s lasted for quite some time, from 1969 to 1974.

I believe the two 747s were initially named "Europe" and "Florida", but just a few months later National's well-known girls' names and slogans campaign came along to the whole fleet, and the 747s were changed.

Although it was quite some time between National arriving and the Bermuda restriction on airlines at Heathrow, it was the start of the thought process from the UK side. It had always been accepted that it was two US carriers there, Pan Am and TWA, versus BOAC. Once a third carrier came in, and particularly once they started marketing onward connections to points already served by both established US carriers, like Los Angeles, the arrangement started to be found unreasonable. It had always been felt to be a shoo-in for Pan Am, strong at both ends of the route, and was a surprise when the Nixon administration selected National instead. How did National's charismatic CEO Lewis B Maytag, heir to the Maytag US appliance fortune (he also owned US local service carrier Frontier at the time), manage it with Tricky Dicky ? It was a Presidential administration decision on foreign carrier licences. Bureaucracy though takes a long time to move. National used to advertise in the UK these flights and connections every day in a long-running small sidebar ad on the front page of The Times newspaper, different destination each time.

Airlift themselves, like National based at Miami, bought a few civilian-standard Hercules in these times, and did very well with them rush-ferrying replacement big fan engines in their early unreliable days for all of Pan Am, Eastern and National from their major Miami maintenance bases out to AOG widebodies scattered around.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIRLIFT-INTERNATIONAL-AIRLINES-MIAMI-LOCKHEED-L-100-HERCULES-SUPERJET-ENGINE-AD/401047281683?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26a o%3D1%26asc%3D226061%26meid%3D909fcc8293d44dbe9c6b0545a25ae0 9c%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D401 898558275%26itm%3D401047281683%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D20 47675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[rog747]

WHBM --- always a mine of fabulous information and archive

[AMC737]

Done some digging, in the winter season 1991-92 which was Pan Am's last season at Gatwick and existence, the following schedule is listed - same flight numbers as previous Heathrow flights

PA54 DTW 19:35 LGW 07:55 A310 (no service Monday/Tuesday)
PA55 LGW 10:00 DTW 13:35 A310 (no service Tuesday/Wednesday)

PA98 MIA 18:35 LGW 08:10 747 (daily)
PA99 LGW 11:00 MIA 15:30 747 (daily)

Therefore the A310 and 747 where on the ground together for 2 hours

Also listed from Gatwick non-stop during this season is:

Atlanta Delta L1011 X2, British Airways DC-10
Baltimore TWA 767
Boston Northwest 747, Virgin 747
Cincinnati Delta L1011
Dallas Fort Worth American DC10 X2 British Airways DC10
Houston Continental DC10, British Airways DC10
Los Angeles Air New Zealand 747
Miami Virgin 747
Minneapolis Northwest 747
New York JFK American 767/74L, British Airways DC10, Virgin 747
Newark Continental 747
Orlando British Airways 747
Philadelphia TWA 767
St Louis TWA 747

[Sotonsean]

WHBM

Many thanks for the detailed account of National Airlines at LHR during it's early days of service on the Miami route.

AMC737

I was actually thinking of posting the exact same information you have supplied for the flights between LGW and the USA for that period. Having the timetables myself but I appreciate your time and effort in providing it.

On a side note....Do you guys think that this thread is better suited in the History and Nostalgia section rather than here?

Considering that the thread is also discussing airlines at LGW other than Pan Am perhaps the title of the thread could also be changed to better reflect London Gatwick and it's past transatlantic airlines and routes, or even change the title to "Past transatlantic operations from LGW and LHR".

Tell me if you think so and maybe we can get admin to move it and possibly rename it!

[SWBKCB]

Wasn't Miami deemed to be some sort of special destination and thus outside the scope of the UK-USA agreement, which then allowed National to start?

I think the DC-10's were a bit later than 1972 - certainly the DC-8's were still operating to LHR in early 1973.

[Sotonsean]

Wasn't Miami deemed to be some sort of special destination and thus outside the scope of the UK-USA agreement, which then allowed National to start?

I think the DC-10's were a bit later than 1972 - certainly the DC-8's were still operating to LHR in early 1973.

Miami was a new US gateway that was approved by the US Transportation Board in 1969. National Airlines applied for Miami to LHR and was successful in it's application and started operations on Tuesday 16 June 1970.

With regards to the National Airlines DC10 operating on the route. You are correct as National Airlines received the following DC10-30's.

N80NA DC10-30 Delivered June 1973
N81NA DC10-30 Delivered June 1973
N82NA DC10-30 Delivered June 1975
N83NA DC10-30 Delivered June 1975

After doing some research online.

Inaugural flight of a National Airlines DC10-30 on Miami to LHR occurred on the 11 September 1973.

From the 11 September 1973 the route was flown daily by DC10-30.

NA98 MIA 18.30 LHR 07.45 Daily DC10-30
NA99 LHR 10.10 MIA 14.15 Daily DC10-30

[WHBM]

Although commonly described that there were just two US carriers into Heathrow, Pan Am and TWA, with National making a third just to Miami, until they got rolled into Pan Am, there were others that turned up, with a US approach called an "interchange flight". Because Pan Am was basically only allowed international flights, and the US domestic carriers were not for a long period, and because TWA was allowed both, Pan Am in the 1960s-early 70s developed flights that continued as a domestic flight beyond the US gateway, on the route of a domestic airline. This led not only to Pan Am aircraft turning up at US airports they otherwise did not serve, but also the partner's aircraft turning up at Heathrow. This was all well before these carriers managed to get licences to come to Europe in their own right,

There were several such arrangements, each one seemed to be organised differently for who did what share. Aircraft worked through but crews were always changed at the US gateway, the interchange point.

Delta had the longest standing arrangement, from Atlanta to Washington, then on as a Pan Am flight to London. This one seemed to be 6 months of the year by aircraft of each carrier. It lasted probably for 10 years or so, from the DC8 era into the 747, and led to Delta aircraft of both types turning up at Heathrow. At Pan Am the DC8 dropped out of favour early on, but they kept some on and this was one of their last operations, and in fact some of their others, fully kitted out for international operations of course, were sold to Delta and used on the route. Delta didn't have any 707s and thus no crews for it, so the DC8 had to last until the 747 came along.

Northwest had an arrangement through Detroit onward to Minneapolis, which again went back and forth, this one seemed to be proportionalised by mileage so Pan Am aircraft did most but Northwest turned up on it for certain blocks of time. Northwest had 707s properly configured for their transpacific flights to Asia, so aircraft compatibility was not an issue.

Braniff continued the Pan Am London-Chicago flight on to Dallas and Houston. I never encountered a Braniff aircraft at Heathrow (comments ?) so seems to have always been a Pan Am operation. Unlike the others the round trip could not be achieved in a day so it needed two aircraft. Pan Am had a handful of other operations from Houston, not otherwise connected to their network, so it was operationally convenient for them.

There's a lot more to all this, some flights were continued as Pan Am from London to Frankfurt, you could probably write a chapter on all the variations that happened from year to year.

[Sotonsean]

I'm glad that you have brought up the topic of the interchange flights operated by Delta and Northwest at LHR in the early 1970's. I knew that it was getting to a point where someone was going to bring it up. There was probably only two or three posters that was going to bring the subject up with yourself included and maybe myself. I was actually contemplating it myself but it's a fairly complicated story to tell but again just like your other posts you have explained the situation in great detail.

Although I'm totally aware of those interchange flights by Delta and Northwest at LHR during that period in time I personally never saw any of their aircraft as it was before my time. I wasn't quite into aviation then, that didn't occur until 1977.

I don't think that Braniff ever visited LHR as part of the interchange agreement as you rightly pointed out.

There are numerous photos online and in particular on Flickr showing the Delta B747's at LHR during that period plus a few of the Northwest B707's.

Not sure of the schedules regarding the Delta and Northwest aircraft but they were more than likely on the ground at LHR at the same time. I wonder if there is a photo somewhere showing the Delta B747, Northwest B707 with a National DC8/B747 alongside the Pan Am and TWA aircraft at LHR Terminal 3. I'd love to see that ☺️

I have to say that the Delta livery looked great on their B747-100's especially at LHR alongside all of the other airlines of that period.

I really think that this thread is better suited in the History and Nostalgia forum as we've gone well past the original topic of Pan Am flights at London Gatwick. But it's been a fascinating thread and I'm enjoying being part of it.