More on Uber Air [Archive]

mickjoebill

27th Feb 2020, 20:32

Uber’s plans for a fleet of 1000 electric air taxis in Melbourne are revealed through a freedom of information request.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-28/uber-air-plans-for-1000-strong-melbourne-helicopter-fleet/12007092?pfmredir=sm

ABC’s editorial line is that they are “fast and noisy” and claim uber’s rollout of ground taxis proves they have “ no great respect for governance or law”.

ABC also state that there was angry response to the noise and privacy issues raised when amazon tested delivery by drone and that there is likely to be similar complaints to these “choppers” which they report from Uber’s submissions are as noisy as a vacum cleaner.

ABC suggest that there is no regulations nor regulators that protect the public from noise and privacy of drones and that decisions about the location of 80 uber heliports are being made in secret.

What a beat up!

The uber Melbourne Service will commence this year using existing single rotor helicopters between existing heliports.

mjb

kingRB

27th Feb 2020, 22:54

machtuk

27th Feb 2020, 22:58

there is just so much rubbish in that it's difficult to even know where to start. More to the question, how and when did we get to a point where big business and media can keep promulgating complete fantasy like this?

does make for fantasy interesting reading though-:)
Most know it's pie in the sky stuff but hey 'The Jetsons' was fanciful all those years ago and still is! -:)

tail wheel

28th Feb 2020, 00:04

From the ABC article:

"Further notes made the point that Australia's air safety regulator CASA "is known for being bold in welcoming new aircraft and systems".

The author is living with the fairies.

Lookleft

28th Feb 2020, 01:28

The trial in Canberra of uber eats delivered by air very quickly turned to farce as the article refers to, as the constant buzzing noise drove the residents mad. It takes how long to develop an airliner yet 100's of these scaled up drones apparently will be allowed to criss-cross the skies over Melbourne, one assumes in a city version of Class g and a great big CTAF!

Dick Smith

28th Feb 2020, 01:53

“bold” - or perhaps delusional.

601

28th Feb 2020, 04:23

"Further notes made the point that Australia's air safety regulator CASA "is known for being bold in welcoming new aircraft and systems".

I should not read things like this when I am drinking my coffee. It is dangerous!!!

neville_nobody

28th Feb 2020, 05:35

This would have to be the most profound part of it

Uber is unlikely to be the applicant for the airworthiness certificate that permits an aircraft to take to the air, meaning pilots could be responsible for safety and maintenance of the helicopters, just as drivers in the Uber network operate now.

Reality is that CASA will not allow that in regard to commercial operations. So what's the Plan B?

"Further notes made the point that Australia's air safety regulator CASA "is known for being bold in welcoming new aircraft and systems".
Probably buttering them up in the push for a AOC Dispensation.

Squawk7700

28th Feb 2020, 06:14

This would have to be the most profound part of it

Reality is that CASA will not allow that in regard to commercial operations. So what's the Plan B?

Probably buttering them up in the push for a AOC Dispensation.

Everyone said that about Uber and cars... “unqualified” drivers and standard vehicles belonging to private owners.

The federal government didn’t fight against it...
CASA will have to throw a lot of money at it to stop it. If Uber has a lot of cash it will be hard to stop them.

27/09

28th Feb 2020, 07:46

Two things will kill it. Cost and backlash from the local communities

cattletruck

28th Feb 2020, 08:04

how and when did we get to a point where big business and media can keep promulgating complete fantasy like this?
Just look at who runs the finance industry. No doubt, mum and dad investors are to be fleeced again with another artificial bubble that goes pop at the right moment by those selling this dream.

Word on Uber eats and the like are that the mugs using it are quickly discovering their food is actually coming from dark kitchens (shipping containers set up as kitchens) and that the restaurants using it don't profit from it. It's days are numbered unless I have underestimated the poor taste of the general public.

tiddles52

28th Feb 2020, 08:20

It's days are numbered unless I have underestimated the poor taste of the general public.

In the UK it's passed the point already of critical mass. You go into any McDonalds, KFC etc and at the counter is a line of couriers waiting to pick up orders to deliver. Towns are constantly abuzz with scooters whizzing around. Just like Internet shopping killed the High Street I predict UberEats etc will kill going out to eat. With the Internet for movies etc and remote working soon people just won't go out at all! Even Peleton now brings cycling from the gym to your living room...

artee

28th Feb 2020, 09:16

Just look at who runs the finance industry. No doubt, mum and dad investors are to be fleeced again with another artificial bubble that goes pop at the right moment by those selling this dream.

Word on Uber eats and the like are that the mugs using it are quickly discovering their food is actually coming from dark kitchens (shipping containers set up as kitchens) and that the restaurants using it don't profit from it. It's days are numbered unless I have underestimated the poor taste of the general public.

You have undererstimated the poor taste of the general public. :E

Ascend Charlie

28th Feb 2020, 10:37

Everyone said that about Uber and cars... “unqualified” drivers and standard vehicles belonging to private owners.

The federal government didn’t fight against it...
CASA will have to throw a lot of money at it to stop it. If Uber has a lot of cash it will be hard to stop them.

The difference is that Uber taxis use cars that have already been developed for 120 years and drivers who have been licenced by a state authority. There is no risk to doing this, because nothing new was introduced, just a different way of calling for the ride. An Uber can call in to a fuel station for a top-up in 5 minutes, and there are a squillion of them. An Uber can have an emergency power failure and just pull over to the side of the road. An Uber can (usually) carry 4 passengers.

Uber-Jetson needs a totally new aircraft to be invented, tested, certified and produced. Batteries can't cut it yet. Propulsion systems need to be scaled up to carry 4 or 5 POB. Reliability is yet to be created.
It needs a totally new airspace classification to be developed, tested and accepted, by CA$A / AsA and the public.
It needs a radical development of collision avoidance and guidance to be invented.
It needs the public to accept vertical takeoff aircraft buzzing at 500' and landing in new places - the NIMBY group will stop that, same as they have stopped helipad development and use.

It will NEVER happen, except in glossy CG videos to lure in gullible investors.

sellbydate

28th Feb 2020, 11:04

Uber-Jetson needs a totally new aircraft to be invented, tested, certified and produced. Batteries can't cut it yet. Propulsion systems need to be scaled up to carry 4 or 5 POB. Reliability is yet to be created.
It needs a totally new airspace classification to be developed, tested and accepted, by CA$A / AsA and the public.
It needs a radical development of collision avoidance and guidance to be invented.
It needs the public to accept vertical takeoff aircraft buzzing at 500' and landing in new places - the NIMBY group will stop that, same as they have stopped helipad development and use.

It will NEVER happen, except in glossy CG videos to lure in gullible investors.

It will happen, but on a much, much smaller scale and longer time-frame than the venture capitalists are being conned into believing. Of the near-on 200 designs for eVTOL aircraft out there today, only a tiny fraction will make it through certification and into production and the costs per unit, with design, test, certification costs amortised, will be a lot higher than anyone envisages today. Charging infrastructure is also a massive challenge, a five unit dedicated port probably needs a megawatt supply.

mattycoze

28th Feb 2020, 20:52

The balance of corporate, regulatory and legislative decisions is heavily influenced by public opinion. For example, when Alphabet (Google) trialed project Wing in Canberra CASA/ASA were later scruitinised for inconsistent assessment of drone technologies only after the public kicked up a fuss over the noise and intrusive nature of drones buzzing overhead. I imagine companies like Uber are keenly aware of how this balance can be brought together to create agency for their business model.

OldnGrounded

28th Feb 2020, 23:36

Uber’s plans for a fleet of 1000 electric air taxis in Melbourne are revealed through a freedom of information request.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-28/uber-air-plans-for-1000-strong-melbourne-helicopter-fleet/12007092?pfmredir=sm

ABC’s editorial line is that they are “fast and noisy” and claim uber’s rollout of ground taxis proves they have “ no great respect for governance or law”.

ABC also state that there was angry response to the noise and privacy issues raised when amazon tested delivery by drone and that there is likely to be similar complaints to these “choppers” which are as noisy as a vacum cleaner.

ABC suggest that their is no regulations nor regulators that protect the public from noise and privacy of drones and that decisions about the location of 80 uber heliports are being made in secret.

What a beat up!

The uber Melbourne Service will commence this year using existing single rotor helicopters between existing heliports.

mjb

No comments on this, yet? Surprised.

Do you folks in Oz think the civil authorities actually expect this to happen anytime soon -- and actually want it to happen? It's a damned far-fetched notion for an urban area, it seems to me. Unless the extent of the plan is merely to serve the local oligarchs and their high-ranking minions. Kinda like helicopter service today.

OZBUSDRIVER

29th Feb 2020, 00:13

Exhibit A An actual device that can carry a human with alacrity...till the batteries run out.

Ex FSO GRIFFO

29th Feb 2020, 00:35

Question...…..Will those little props 'autorotate' in the event of.... ??

I don't think so......but, you're welcome to differ...

No Cheeerrrsss…

Dick Smith

29th Feb 2020, 01:23

Ozebusdriver

The video you posted did not appear to have a person on board!

neville_nobody

29th Feb 2020, 02:05

Everyone said that about Uber and cars... “unqualified” drivers and standard vehicles belonging to private owners. The federal government didn’t fight against it...
CASA will have to throw a lot of money at it to stop it. If Uber has a lot of cash it will be hard to stop them.

However this move by Uber actually undermines CASA's authority and ability to regulate. That will never be allowed, ever. Just have a look at the whole Glen Buckley saga. That was a similar move to franchise out an AOC and move control from CASA to another authority. CASA won't stand for it.

The other issue for CASA is if Uber are allowed to do what they did in cars then it opens the door in aviation for everybody else to do it. Now I think that would be amazing for the industry and will be a massive economic boom for GA, however CASA do not want to be in that situation where they lose control of regulating the industry. So it is never ever ever ever going to happen. Ever. At any cost.

Cars and Planes are regulated in a totally different manner. Just look at the CAR 206. A tradie can drive around in a van all day long with all manner of equipment and supplies in the back. The same tradie jumps in an aeroplane he needs to get an AOC.

aroa

29th Feb 2020, 06:28

Hahaha!...loved the statement...”its always tomorrow in Australia.”
Yeah we in Oz GA know all about that !
CAsA and yesterday’s men are not into common sense and new ideas

OZBUSDRIVER

29th Feb 2020, 06:56

I know it is a dummy in there...but .CAN carry a human...which is the end game if ever an authority other than a former iron curtain country allows it.
For this little black duck there is noooo way I would even fly in an Uber with the designs they have..let alone that thing. But, it shows which way technology can go. look at some of the scifi flicks with aliens making a beachhead on the US coast and some of the flying contraptions that resemble lunar landers with high pressure stabiliser jets...all good when the gear is ticking over but will hang in the sky exactly the way bricks do if things go quiet.

PDR1

29th Feb 2020, 08:04

Question...…..Will those little props 'autorotate' in the event of.... ??

Of course not - they are fixed-pitch.

PDR

OldnGrounded

29th Feb 2020, 15:06

No comments on this, yet? Surprised.

Do you folks in Oz think the civil authorities actually expect this to happen anytime soon -- and actually want it to happen? It's a damned far-fetched notion for an urban area, it seems to me. Unless the extent of the plan is merely to serve the local oligarchs and their high-ranking minions. Kinda like helicopter service today.

Weird. When I posted the above comment, while this thread was under R&N, there were no responsive posts showing up (for me).

I'm relieved to see that I'm not the only one who thinks this is preposterous -- and would be a bad idea even if it were not.

Gazza mate

29th Feb 2020, 21:42

This will be my part time job.

machtuk

29th Feb 2020, 22:40

Weird. When I posted the above comment, while this thread was under R&N, there were no responsive posts showing up (for me).

I'm relieved to see that I'm not the only one who thinks this is preposterous -- and would be a bad idea even if it were not.

I think most sane people know that this concept is about as feasible as living on Mars anytime soon!
a
Apart from the fanciful technical stuff Insurance Co's would be shaking their heads!

Wunwing

1st Mar 2020, 02:06

Every approved landing area would also need a development approval from the appropriate local council. Anyone who has been through that process knows how easy and timely that process is?

Wunwing

aroa

1st Mar 2020, 21:38

neville_nobody

2nd Mar 2020, 08:17

Good to see a mention of CAR 206, Neville. Thats the reg supposed to be changed 30 years ago , and in the passing decades always just "talk" about removing it because it is 'ultra vires' the Act and unlawful.
And in the past the idiot screechers and sqwarkers of CAsA having a rave in the Senate telling them .." we are a safety regulator , NOT a commercial regulator". BS tru. Pull the other one.
206 denies you the right to free trade and thus earn a living...just because an aircraft is involved.

Possibly Uber are going to challenge this assertion by CAR 206. They are notoriously libertarian and have shown no regard for any established law in any country they operate in and not afraid of a law suit.

If they don't do that I can't see how it will ever work legally. I assume Uber expect the operator to contract to them and somehow operate in a Monopsony. Problem for Uber there is that nothing is stopping the operator going off on their own as they control the AOC and just need a reservation system.

nonsense

10th Dec 2020, 08:00

kingRB

10th Dec 2020, 22:30

Uber Elevate sale set to put plans for 1000 Melbourne flying taxis on ice (https://www.theage.com.au/technology/uber-elevate-s-sale-could-put-plans-for-1000-melbourne-flying-taxis-on-ice-20201210-p56m9z.html)

Uber's sale of its aviation division has raised questions about its plans for up to 1000 commercial flying taxis in Melbourne from 2023.

classic. It's almost like Uber's realized it was going to get infinitely more difficult to keep this charade up as they got closer to a self imposed delivery date. So they found a way of moving the problem
elsewhere so they won't be under the spotlight when it never happens.

Squawk7700

11th Dec 2020, 00:34

I like the way it says the SALE of the division, however in the next paragraph is says they PAID Joby $75m to take it over !!

27/09

12th Dec 2020, 01:36

Sale - really!!!!!!!!!

When I receive something in return (Usually payment of some kind) I have sold something

When I get nothing in return I have given it away

When I pay someone to take it away the idea of it having been sold doesn't enter my consciousness.

This is certainly a very novel interpretation of the act of selling. I guess it might help stop the shareholders getting too upset.