Face Masks

[anxiao]

I was informed by a Hong Kong resident that it is illegal to import face masks into Hong Kong. I had intended to courier some to a friend but they advised against it saying they would be confiscated, and that I should not declare them in baggage on arrival into Hong Kong airport for the same reason.

My immediate reaction was that someone in Exco must have the licence to import them and doesn't want their nice little earner to be grey-marketed. Or is it that the emergency legislation that was put in during the street protests is still on the statute books?

Is my informant correct?

[MENELAUS]

Fake news. They are not on the list of proscribed items such as tazers, CS gas, pepper spray, batons, bazookas, and Kalashnikovs etc.
Usual bs sadly.
Customs website has published a denial already.
Note that if you attempt to ship in amounts that could be considered commercial commodities, that’s a different matter.

[MENELAUS]

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[8driver]

Brought in three boxes over the weekend from ANC station for various departments in Cathay City. HKG based crewmembers both had several boxes for themselves. No issues at all.

[anxiao]

Many thanks for the replies. I thought that it sounded unlikely.

We lived through SARS and we'll get through this one, and the next one. Take care out there.

[jolihokistix]

Japan, 5th January.

Bought three packs of x7 face masks today and the lady at the counter took one back. "Only two per customer, please", she said.

Actually I felt lucky as even here in Japan they all get snapped up with every new delivery. Watching live parliamentary debate in the Tokyo Diet yesterday and the government minister for health was being grilled on the reasons for a total absence of masks available in Japan, and what they might be planning to do about it.

[anxiao]

I didn't wear them in SARS and I will only wear them now if somebody asks me politely to wear one. The ones I am sending are for a dental hygienist who needs them to avoid the spray during scale and polish. Her supplier has run out.

[Paul852]

I didn't wear them in SARS and I will only wear them now if somebody asks me politely to wear one.+1

What the people who are running scared don't seem to realise is that many of us are quite happily continuing our (mask-less) lives as normal. This week I was at a Scrabble tournament and a fully-booked Superbowl buffet breakfast, and I have pub trivia quizzes, wine tastings, BBQs and other social events lined up in the next week or two, at which masks will be completely absent.

[wisecaptain]

Tests have shown this virus can survive for up to 9 days on surfaces.
Much more important to avoid touching your eyes ,nose and mouth and get a good supply of those high alcohol content hand gels etc

[LongTimeInCX]

Tests have shown this virus can survive for up to 9 days on surfaces.

May I please ask you to post a link to the source tests to which you refer.

As for the locals wearing masks, if it gets them through their day, and keeps them happy, then good for them. I'll stick with good hand hygiene as my main defence.

I went out to one of my favourite bar bar and restaurant areas 2 nights ago, as did many others to support these places as many are starting to financially struggle, and being mainly western customers, none were wearing masks. I did notice a lot of hand sanitizing going on.

[anxiao]

Some of the places in town that pilots have been known to drink at over the years, sanitising your hands has always been a good idea, covid19 or not

[Oasis]

https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30046-3/fulltextMay I please ask you to post a link to the source tests to which you refer.


https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200211/Coronavirus-can-live-on-common-surfaces-for-nine-days-how-to-kill-it.aspx

geez you're lazy, second result on google..

[SloppyJoe]

The team has found the novel coronavirus can stay up to nine days on common surfaces, based on their comprehensive analysis of studies about similar pathogens, such as the SARS coronavirus and MERS-CoV. The results show that the viruses can persist or survive on surfaces and remain infectious at room temperature for nine days, with an average lifespan of four to five days.

Not saying it's not the case but tests have not shown it stays on surfaces for 9 days. They are analysing previous studies of other viruses.

[Capt Kremmen]

Tip passed to me. Dip your mask in a four or five to one solution of TCP or equivalent for increased protection. Seems a sensible addition.

[oriental flyer]

Apparently the best thing to kill the virus is hydrogen peroxide

[BFM]

A few words from someone who knows about hygiene precautions. Firstly, please don't rely on the type of mask you see everyone wearing. They are entirely ineffective at stopping virus movements; you need one classified as FFP3 (Filtering Face Piece level 3) and to have undergone a 'fit' test to ensure it fits you. Even then the protection is relatively short-lived. Why do we surgeons wear simple masks while operating? Really just to stop bits of dribble, breakfast and similar falling in patients' wounds.

The slightly better news is that unless someone pretty much sneezes ON you, you are unlikely to get a big enough viral load on your mucous membranes to start infection by breathing. Not impossible, but you need to play the odds. So if you may think you may have CV that's when you wear the simple mask - to reduce how much you shed.

Current internal NHS documents are saying that Covid-19 lasts about 48 hours on surfaces. Therefore, you are best off reducing the viral load on your hands as much as possible. Here are the rules, and I encourage you to adopt these from now for ever, as they are what will protect you from all sorts of infections, including things like norovirus, influenza, hepatitis A (although you are probably immunised against that) and many others:· Always carry tissues and use them to catch coughs or sneezes. Then bin the tissue, and wash your hands, or use a sanitiser gel.

· Wash your hands often and thoroughly with soap and water, especially after using public transport. Try to avoid touching handles - turn the tap off with your elbow if it isn't proximity triggered and if there is a towel hold the door handle with it to exit before discarding it.

· Avoid touching your eyes, nose and mouth with unwashed hands.

· Avoid close contact with people who are unwell.

Covid-19 is a new strain of Coronavirus and we are still learning about it. There is an incubation period of up to 14 days, which is why those self-isolating are asked to do so for that period. We don’t yet know precisely when someone who has the virus is and isn’t infectious, which is why people are asked to self-isolate to prevent the spread of infection.

I have recently gone through YVR, and for the first time I had to check in at a computer terminal before seeing immigration. Now these terminals are all touch screen, and there was no attempt to clean these between users. So if someone has a viral infection, that's a great way to spread it! So what was my first action when I could after using the screen? Was it a) putting on a mask or b) washing my hands thoroughly at the first public washroom I could find?

[LongTimeInCX]

BFM
One of the most sensible posts on this issue for a while.
Whilst the population are being incrementally educated regarding hand hygiene and transmission, it will have little effect on our local Asian population who just think they're all going to die if they don't wear a face mask. Whether it's a cheapo badly fitted one or not, but hey, it gets them through their day.

It still comes down to:
stop touching unnecessary objects, and clean your hands properly and regularly
.

[Sqwak7700]

How about stopping the disgusting wet-market “feature” in this part of the world? And instead of running around in masks, how about educating people to improve their hygiene standards in the first place? And stop eating bats and rats would also go a long way.

All of these diseases seem to originate in the same location. Just sayin.

[ACMS]

How about stopping the disgusting wet-market “feature” in this part of the world? And instead of running around in masks, how about educating people to improve their hygiene standards in the first place? And stop eating bats and rats would also go a long way.

All of these diseases seem to originate in the same location. Just sayin.


Where’s the like button?

[iot]

I recomend watching this. Very well done.
You can find it on YouTube.
Search - "Contagion - Trailer, Warner Bros. Entertainment"

[LongTimeInCX]

I recomend watching this. Very well done.
You can find it on YouTube.
Search - "Contagion - Trailer, Warner Bros. Entertainment"
Great movie, but I would suggest that you are comparing apples and oranges.
To imply the coronavirus19 is similar is alarmist and scaremongering.
Yes it's knocking over a few people, and whilst not wishing to be flippant, most of those that die having contracted the virus, are elderly/sick or compromised.

In reality this is nothing more than nature thinning the herd, trimming the bits that were likely to be costly and time consuming to look after, it sounds callous, not intending to be, but it is the current reality.

Once through the other side, we should have a healthier overall population. Births will still no doubt exceed virus deaths, whilst we happily over-populate and pollute our planet. This is nothing more than a little streamlining.

[Yonosoy Marinero]

How cynical...

(Un)fortunately, this is not true.

The mortality rate of the virus outside of Wuhan/Hubei, where healthcare services are overwhelmed, is around 0.4%, or about the same as your garden variety seasonal influenza, which does a MUCH better job at culling the human race by killing dozens of thousands every year.
This won't even come close.

What this virus is very good at, however, is selling newspapers, spreading crap on social media, creating mass hysteria irrational behavior and ruining the economy.

On the plus side, all those parked airplanes are good news for the planet... Silver linings.

[Oasis]

How cynical...

(Un)fortunately, this is not true.

The mortality rate of the virus outside of Wuhan/Hubei, where healthcare services are overwhelmed, is around 0.4%, or about the same as your garden variety seasonal influenza, which does a MUCH better job at culling the human race by killing dozens of thousands every year.
This won't even come close.

What this virus is very good at, however, is selling newspapers, spreading crap on social media, creating mass hysteria irrational behavior and ruining the economy.

On the plus side, all those parked airplanes are good news for the planet... Silver linings.
oh thank goodness! It’s just like influenza?
those silly guys over the border quarantined about 10 percent of the worlds population for nothing!! Silly gits!

or maybe you should not pay attention to the fake numbers they give you and watch what they do, not what they say..

[azhkman]

oh thank goodness! It’s just like influenza?
those silly guys over the border quarantined about 10 percent of the worlds population for nothing!! Silly gits!

or maybe you should not pay attention to the fake numbers they give you and watch what they do, not what they say..

This is the point though. Ignore the numbers in China, and look at the illness outside of China. Infection rates are low, and fatality rates are low. Thankfully, and very thankfully, this does not appear to be a deadly, mutating strain of supervirus. What China is doing is what China needs to do. Russia closed its borders with China today, so the world is really making this a China problem to deal with while a nuisance for most other countries where patients are already started going home.

[Pomerian]

Perfectly understand most experts said that face masks should be used by one who falls ill instead of healthy one.

I did same thing that I didn't wear mask during SARS. But I chose to do now -
1. Environment changes - there are lots more people around, places are getting crowd, hard to say everyone has the same high level of hygiene standard. Spitting getting more commonly seen again; sneezing / coughing without covering mouth...
​​​2. Longer unknown period - are you 100% sure if you are healthy? Even if you are tested positive under this virus, you may not have any symptoms. Do you wanna protect people around you?

All in all, wearing face masks or not is a personal choice, same as whether taking vaccine or not. Same old argument.

[jolihokistix]

See all the people in Italy wearing masks now, after doctors said they would be no use.

Two people, two masks, = gotta be two steps better than nothing at all, when used with a measure of understanding and common sense, I reckon.

[DroneDog]

When this was just kicking off in China, the very early days I tried to buy some quality N95 makes but they never arrived. Fast forward and a new system emerges from a company called Virustatic. The product sounded great, a face-covering coated in a unique secret recipe that killed 96% of all nasties upon contact and what's more it was washable and could be reused.Well, they arrived and I doubt they will last a week, cheap and flimsy. They were advertised as been washable but later it emerged on only three washes allowed. If you are considering these I suggest best avoided and find something else. £50 wasted.

https://www.virustaticshield.com/

[Paul852]

Fools and their money are easily parted, as this and several other recent reports have shown: https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1521647-20200420.htm

[jolihokistix]

Re masks.
Looking back at my posts here of 5th and 26th February, I see that nothing has changed. There have been no face masks in the shops since early January. Someone quick off the mark bought them all up.

Except for one thing: Prime Minister Abe has started to fulfill his pledge to send out two washable cotton masks to every household in Japan by the end of April. Laugh or cry, that is the reality.

[DroneDog]

Fools and their money are easily parted, as this and several other recent reports have shown: https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1521647-20200420.htm

Indeed, fortunately, my original purchase was via eBay and Paypal so I received a full refund, the masks were never sent but it's a scammers market. The virustatic things look like a disposable rag you would buy to clean your car dashboard. I was expecting a higher quality item for the price.

[mothy1583]

Have a look on Facebook for the page run by Prof. K Kwong. He's a former Chemistry teacher at HK Polytechnic and has done loads of testing and design for re-usable cotton masks and gives some good guides on how they can be supplemented by tissues or kitchen towels to give up to N95 quality. Another Facebook page is HKMasks that take the Professor's work and show how to make your own (I just bought mine from G.O.D. for $70) Unless you're in an operating theatre, you really don't need N95 but the choice is yours.

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[Paul852]

Chance of any of these making any difference to your life expectancy?

0.0001%

[Oasis]

Chance of any of these making any difference to your life expectancy?

0.0001%

It could make a huge difference in the life expectancy of someone else.

[Koan]

Re masks.
Looking back at my posts here of 5th and 26th February, I see that nothing has changed. There have been no face masks in the shops since early January. Someone quick off the mark bought them all up.

Except for one thing: Prime Minister Abe has started to fulfill his pledge to send out two washable cotton masks to every household in Japan by the end of April. Laugh or cry, that is the reality.
Scored a pack of 7 at Matsu-Kiyo on Monday.
Think I Just walked by when they had opened a carton.
Have not seen any for weeks.

[MENELAUS]

It could make a huge difference in the life expectancy of someone else.


Bollocks !

[Anti Skid On]

+1

What the people who are running scared don't seem to realise is that many of us are quite happily continuing our (mask-less) lives as normal. This week I was at a Scrabble tournament and a fully-booked Superbowl buffet breakfast, and I have pub trivia quizzes, wine tastings, BBQs and other social events lined up in the next week or two, at which masks will be completely absent.
Soap and water is preferable to alcohol rubs

[Oasis]

Bollocks !

bullocks how?
lets say you are healthy non symptomatic carrier of covid, you don’t wear a mask and you breathe on someone who is obese, elderly, immunocompromised etc, you could infect them.

[cxorcist]

bullocks how?
lets say you are healthy non symptomatic carrier of covid, you don’t wear a mask and you breathe on someone who is obese, elderly, immunocompromised etc, you could infect them.
Possibly, but this virus is far more widespread than people think. Recent antibody testing is revealing vast portions of the population have had the virus. I think the most vulnerable are being taken down regardless of masks, social distancing, stay at home orders, etc. Herd immunity is the only way get on with living until there is a vaccine. The world cannot wait 12-18 months. If it does, there won’t be anything left.

[MENELAUS]

Possibly, but this virus is far more widespread than people think. Recent antibody testing is revealing vast portions of the population have had the virus. I think the most vulnerable are being taken down regardless of masks, social distancing, stay at home orders, etc. Herd immunity is the only way get on with living until there is a vaccine. The world cannot wait 12-18 months. If it does, there won’t be anything left.

Correct. The sad fact is that people who are obese, immuno compromised, diabetic, coronary cases etc. die anyway. This is just hastening it along. I think one of the reasons that the UK has been hit hard is not necessarily a failure to act rapidly ( the Swedes are and indeed the Dutch were advocates of the herd immunity method; sadly an experiment too far for politicians to continue with as events overtook them) it’s that’s primarily the UK IS a nation of salad dodgers and fatknackers, who expect ever expanding miracles of our free at the point of contact National Health Service.
We just don’t know how many of those would have died anyway. And the ensuing economic effects of plunging the world back in to a WWII economy, to say nothing of the concomitant effects on physical, and mental health, are shortly going to outweigh the virus deaths.
It is tragic. Don’t get me wrong, however populace’s around the world ( at least in the parts that are not ruled by an oligarchy or an autocracy) are not going to put up with lockdown for months on end. Witness the behaviour already here in HK or in the US.
TB, dengue, malaria. All lethal if you’re unfortunate enough to be born in the wrong part of the world. And they’ve been around for a fairly long time without being totally eradicated. With billions of dollars being thrown at them. What chance do you think there is of eradicating a virus related to the same family as the common cold. ? Masks are primarily a placebo, forcing much of the population to behave as though we’re under Sharia.
And I’ll take Paul’s odds any day. As opposed to watching the narcissists amongst us plunge the world in to the dark ages.

[jolihokistix]

"Bollocks"? Aw, my wife's logic wins, no more lottery tickets for me then.

[Oasis]

Possibly, but this virus is far more widespread than people think. Recent antibody testing is revealing vast portions of the population have had the virus. I think the most vulnerable are being taken down regardless of masks, social distancing, stay at home orders, etc. Herd immunity is the only way get on with living until there is a vaccine. The world cannot wait 12-18 months. If it does, there won’t be anything left.
I was discussing wearing masks, not closing down the world.
Besides, I keep on reading reports about people getting re-infected and immunity not being so certain.

[cxorcist]

I was discussing wearing masks, not closing down the world.
Besides, I keep on reading reports about people getting re-infected and immunity not being so certain.
Re-infected and sick or just testing positive a second time? Big difference!

[Oasis]

Re-infected and sick or just testing positive a second time? Big difference!

Who knows what’s really going on, but this guy tested positive again two months after contracting covid. Some up to 70 days.
One thing is for certain: this disease is something else..


.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-patients-ins-idUSKCN2240HI

[cxorcist]

Who knows what’s really going on, but this guy tested positive again two months after contracting covid. Some up to 70 days.
One thing is for certain: this disease is something else..


.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-patients-ins-idUSKCN2240HI
This disease is something else alright... VERY contagious, not very deadly, but doing a darn good job of destroying the global economy.

[controlledrest]

Just sit in the sun and shoot some disinfectant and you will be cured!

[Steve the Pirate]

This disease is something else alright... VERY contagious, not very deadly, but doing a darn good job of destroying the global economy.

Disclaimer: I don't know the answer to this question.

Do you think the mortality rate might be higher if stay-at-home orders and social distancing guidelines were not in place, due to the inevitable additional burden on already stretched healthcare services?

STP

[cxorcist]

Disclaimer: I don't know the answer to this question.

Do you think the mortality rate might be higher if stay-at-home orders and social distancing guidelines were not in place, due to the inevitable additional burden on already stretched healthcare services?

STP
Actually, the mortality rate (as I understand it) is how deadly the virus is. All the evidence I have seen is that it is less than 1%, perhaps significantly, but not as low as the flu at 0.1%. Antibody testing is revealing MUCH higher levels of infection than the official tallies, which makes the denominator much bigger while leaving the numerator (deaths) constant.

Certainly, the total deaths would be higher, but not the mortality (death rate), if preventative measures were not in place. In fact, one could argue that the preventative measures keep the denominator smaller than it would otherwise be (herd immunity?), but perhaps also the numerator as well, especially if (as you alluded to) the medical systems were to become overwhelmed. The parallel being that most diseases are more deadly in third world countries where sanitation and health care systems are less prevalent and advanced.

I’m no epidemiologist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, courtesy of Cathay Pacific!

[Steve the Pirate]

Certainly, the total deaths would be higher, but not the mortality (death rate), if preventative measures were not in place.

To selectively quote, you're right, I should have said total deaths. Arguably, even though antibody testing might be revealing higher numbers of infections, surely an unknown is the number of deaths that might have been prevented by potential asymptomatic spread due to the measures in place? I'm not an epidemiologist either.

Hope you didn't contract anything in the Holiday Inn!

STP

[cxorcist]

To selectively quote, you're right, I should have said total deaths. Arguably, even though antibody testing might be revealing higher numbers of infections, surely an unknown is the number of deaths that might have been prevented by potential asymptomatic spread due to the measures in place? I'm not an epidemiologist either.

Hope you didn't contract anything in the Holiday Inn!

STP
Yes, and the questions now are... how many will die from the global depression the world now has? And how deadly will second and possibly third waves be due to less herd immunity? I’m not saying we should have let the virus spread, but it seems we are overcooking the goose, possibly for political reasons, and now have much more public debt AND a global depression. Thank you China!

[Flying Clog]

Indeed, thank you China!

I guess we're all paying for it now, for our over reliance on cheap plastic crap, and cheap labour from China.

Now we are paying the price. It should have never been allowed to happen in the first place.

All down to greed and profit, etc etc.

The best we can hope for is that this is the death knell for China's expansion and influence. We all need to amputate the bully and shut them out of the global playground. (granted, not great for CX's future if China is ostracised)...

And to answer the question regarding how many people will die? IMHO - the more the better. Let's get the population down to a manageable level.

Darwinism at its finest, especially when people in Trump's America are quite literally drinking the disinfectant/kool aid. Good! Keep it up.