Fukushima Prefecture AW139 crash land, no immediatefatalities

[tottigol]

Koriyama, Fukushima Pref., Feb. 1 (Jiji Press)--A police helicopter crashed in Koriyama, Fukushima Prefecture, northeastern Japan, Saturday morning, leaving two people on board seriously injured, police and fire officials said.

Five police officers, a doctor and a nurse were aboard the prefectural police helicopter Azuma at the time of the crash. The doctor in his 30s was among the two injured. All seven people remain conscious, the officials said.

The helicopter crashed into a rice field while transporting a heart for transplant, the officials said.

The crash came shortly after the helicopter departed from a hospital in the Fukushima city of Aizuwakamatsu at around 8 a.m. (11 p.m. Friday GMT), bound for Fukushima Airport, the officials said.

There have been no reports of injury to residents near the crash site.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/450x300/181944_b0881a819ed3b6d5af1b8e3db7c98eb44060a6a8.jpg
Nippon News Heli Crash (http://www.nippon.com/en/news/yjj2020020100487/japanese-police-helicopter-crashes-in-fukushima.html)

[Sir Korsky]

and that's exactly why those forward seats need to be installed so you can climb up them to get out the cabin when it's side over. Hopefully nothing T/R related.

[malabo]

Shimatta! Maybe a wire-strike from too busy looking inside trying to match some certification profile?

Youtube

[Non-PC Plod]

Shimatta! Maybe a wire-strike from too busy looking inside trying to match some certification profile?

Youtube (https://youtu.be/PHn2WGe6QHs)
Wow, that instant diagnosis of the cause shows a real insight!

Certification profiles only apply for certified (surveyed) sites. (Which wont have wires strung across them in the climb-out path). Wires can take anybody by surprise, and to suggest that the pilots were not looking out is unfair ( to say the least)

[jolihokistix]

Sadly the heart went over its use-by date.

[Self loading bear]

Why 5 police men on a transplant transport?
Was the heart of a criminal?

[OvertHawk]

Why 5 police men on a transplant transport?
Was the heart of a criminal?

Pretty sure the "police men" were in fact the crew of the helicopter.

[GrayHorizonsHeli]

well, it isnt hard to see the power poles in close proximity, so a wirestrike isn't out of the question

[212man]

Shimatta! Maybe a wire-strike from too busy looking inside trying to match some certification profile?

Youtube (https://youtu.be/PHn2WGe6QHs)
Well, if you look at the quoted departure point, destination, and location of the accident, it's unlikely to have been doing any certification profiles! More likely to be carrying out a precautionary landing en-route (which may have resulted in a wire strike)

[Sir Korsky]

Shimatta! Maybe a wire-strike from too busy looking inside trying to match some certification profile?

Youtube (https://youtu.be/PHn2WGe6QHs)

a very valid point and if you're correct, it was only a matter of time for the 139. If they departed from ground level and used maybe a clear area or short field profile with eyes inside here, then this could have been the outcome. The cues can be a major distraction and their use requires proficient ADM.

[212man]

Well, I think we can discount wires - like I said it would have been en-route. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUwNl3M541U

[Sir Korsky]

I'm thinking Sky Shuttle here. Hopefully not another Italian Friday blade. I'm seeing 3 stripe blades on this image, unsure if crash airframe.

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/6/50280_1464422531.jpg

[SASless]

;Might I be the first to say this.....damn good flying!

Plainly some sort of Tail Rotor issue.

For everyone to walk-on/crawl away is worthy of praise

[212man]

was this right after coming out of a seemingly CatA Helipad departure profile?

not sure why people keep referring to it taking off. Look up the towns/cities in the first post on google maps. It appears to have been en-route.

[Sir Korsky]

better shot of T/R here. 3 stripes and possibly no drive on impact. Agree with SAS, brilliant outcome with no flames or deaths.

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/02/3656b85da64f-breaking-news-police-helicopter-crashes-in-fukushima-prefecture-local-police.html

[malabo]

I make it at about 10 minutes after takeoff, zero airspeed, slow yaw right. Some heroics to get it on the ground with as little damage as they did from that point. How to get into that situation from cruise? Did they lose yaw thrust (and why), lowered the collective but never got the throttles off and didn’t keep or regain their 80 knots? Gear was down, how did they get time for that as it surely would have been up for cruise.

Have I got the planned routing about right? The yellow circle being the final resting place. Destination was the airport.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1624x750/4f70839c_dd2c_4c4f_a2bb_b2f2bed52547_03a50a91121b751d4a56a3e c22c41c2c3e9c14e1.jpeg

[gulliBell]

A good outcome considering what might have happened. Dig a hole. Bury it. Buy another one.

[gulliBell]

...lowered the collective but never got the throttles off...

My hunch, given the slow rotation rate, the throttles were at idle or off on the way down.

[Bell_ringer]

;Might I be the first to say this.....damn good flying!

Plainly some sort of Tail Rotor issue.

For everyone to walk-on/crawl away is worthy of praise

amen to that

[SASless]

Heroics? Dang....you mean there was a School within two hundred miles of the crash site....that they gallantly sacrificed themselves to avoid?

[Sir Korsky]

Heroics? Dang....you mean there was a School within two hundred miles of the crash site....that they gallantly sacrificed themselves to avoid?

they really put their heart into it SAS.

[Dexus]

better shot of T/R here. 3 stripes and possibly no drive on impact. Agree with SAS, brilliant outcome with no flames or deaths.

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/02/3656b85da64f-breaking-news-police-helicopter-crashes-in-fukushima-prefecture-local-police.html
Another better shot!
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x360/27_7de7a7d1e3a588274e6662c4ac515aded1ef243e.jpg

[malabo]

Mature aircraft, HUMS, a T/R failure would be an extremely rare event. We should be hearing something soon from Leonardo. Noooby?

Really odd that there was no warning at all, or was it a judgement call to keep flying despite some hint because of the heart and 5 min from landing? Sim training, the way the box is programmed there is lots of incentive to keep the speed up, they may have still got some speed on after it disappeared out of view on the video. When we were gods gift instructing we could do 0 airspeed autos from 500’ with the H300. Didn’t think it was possible with a 139 -min auto speed I believe is 40 but without a T/R even 100 feels better for that extra keel effect. Maybe HK piloto “RM” can chime in with what worked for him.

[kenish]

Happy that they all survived, hopefully another heart can be located soon.

A bit off-topic, organ donation and transplant rates are far lower in Japan than most developed countries. It's due to longstanding religious/cultural reasons and outdated laws that have only recently started to change.

Re: another comment about 5 police being aboard- the helo was part of the prefecture police force. Some aboard may have been there to provide ground transport of the heart at both ends of the flight.

[212man]

The 5 police would have included the 2 pilots.

[gulliBell]

...Maybe HK piloto “RM” can chime in with what worked for him.

RM had some airspeed when the TRGB departed the scene, and, by all accounts, a useful left seater that all contributed to the successful outcome.

[212man]

RM had some airspeed when the TRGB departed the scene, and, by all accounts, a useful left seater that all contributed to the successful outcome.

Yes, he was at about 70 kts and 3-400 ft I think (been a few years since he recounted the story)

[griffothefog]

The coey was a newbie with poor English and a lap full of paperwork, who failed to react when asked at least 3 times to switch off both engines....

[gulliBell]

Arghh right. The left seater didn't become effective until it was time to give the abandon ship order, in Chinese. I trust at least the paperwork was in perfect order.

[SASless]

One must ensure the paperwork is correct otherwise the Accident Investigators shall call you out for any errors.....so give the guy a break!

[AnFI]

TR failure?

Pilot tried well and very good outcome. Was the heart recipient a fatality?
Good thing it was not over a city.
Could have been a CATASTROPHE ?

to gain airspeed in a rotating helicopter ideally the cyclic needs to move in the cockpit at (negatively) the same rotational rate, ie constant bearing.

[212man]

TR failure?

Pilot tried well and very good outcome. Was the heart recipient a fatality?
Good thing it was not over a city.
Could have been a CATASTROPHE ?

to gain airspeed in a rotating helicopter ideally the cyclic needs to move in the cockpit at (negatively) the same rotational rate, ie constant bearing.Google suggests they postponed the operation pending a decision on whether to wait for another donor or try an alternative treatment. There is also a lot of information that says heart operations rose by about 14% after the power station disaster!

[400hover]

The right MLG is out. Maybe the crew had time to lower it when they realize something was coming up. Or can it come out after they crash? Or maybe they had an dual hydraulic failure..?? (don't think so...)

[212man]

The right MLG is out. Maybe the crew had time to lower it when they realize something was coming up. Or can it come out after they crash? Or maybe they had an dual hydraulic failure..?? (don't think so...)
of course they didn’t have a dual hydraulic failure! They would all be dead!

[Sir Korsky]

The right MLG is out. Maybe the crew had time to lower it when they realize something was coming up. Or can it come out after they crash? Or maybe they had an dual hydraulic failure..?? (don't think so...)

to partially address one of your concerns in a more affable, friendly and less pompous fashion, yes, the gear on the 139 is held up by hydraulic pressure and any significant pressure loss will cause gravity to lower, but not lock the gear.

[Scorpygixxer]

Let's look at the video. Right hand spiral descent at very low speed is symptomatic of a low Nr condition with low tail rotor effectiveness and a relatively high collective position. The reasons for the potential low Nr condition are unknown but the low nose attitude is indicative of an attempt to regain airspeed while disk authority is borderline effective. The successful arrest of the RoD to survivability may have been based on flare increasing Nr, hence tail rotor thrust and overall reduction in descent.

[Jimmy.]

Let's look at the video. Right hand spiral descent at very low speed is symptomatic of a low Nr condition with low tail rotor effectiveness and a relatively high collective position. The reasons for the potential low Nr condition are unknown but the low nose attitude is indicative of an attempt to regain airspeed while disk authority is borderline effective. The successful arrest of the RoD to survivability may have been based on flare increasing Nr, hence tail rotor thrust and overall reduction in descent.

How almost zero airspeed "flare" could increase NR?

[[email protected]]

Right hand spiral descent at very low speed is symptomatic of a low Nr condition with low tail rotor effectiveness and a relatively high collective position. how do you come to that conclusion?

Seems more likely that following a TR thrust failure, he has lowered the lever to reduce tq reaction and lowered the nose to gain speed.

If you can find a video of an RAF Wessex over a lake in Wales that suffered a TR drive failure, you will see an identical spiral descent.

[skadi]

Seems more likely that following a TR thrust failure, he has lowered the lever to reduce tq reaction and lowered the nose to gain speed.


The question is, since he was in cruiseflight, why did he reduce speed almost to zero?

skadi

[ShyTorque]

The question is, since he was in cruiseflight, why did he reduce speed almost to zero?

skadi

Once the fuselage yaws 90 degrees to the direction of travel, the drag increases exponentially and you're an involuntary test pilot and might have little say in what the aircraft does, at least for a few seconds. With a rapidly rotating fuselage, pitch may become roll and roll may become pitch.

[Non-PC Plod]

I heard ( remember this is a RUMOUR network) - unconfirmed.... that the pilots were putting it down to turbulence, and there was no mechanical issue with the helo. Read in to that what you like.

[AnFI]

eh, you Jimmy: "How almost zero airspeed "flare" could increase NR?" You can actually flare from a dive to horizontal, it works.

Crab :=..... wrt "he has lowered the lever to reduce tq reaction and lowered the nose to gain speed."
please see my previous post:
"to gain airspeed in a rotating helicopter ideally the cyclic needs to move in the cockpit at (negatively) the same rotational rate, ie constant bearing."
If you just hold it forward in the helicopter cockpit it doesn't give the helicopter horizontal airspeed, just makes 'a funnel', just like Lake Vyrnwy, and this one.

A lowered lever and a constant bearing cyclic position, from that height would get most helicopters to arrest yaw.
Not without a change of trousers though. Still well done for surviving, that's what counts, too many airmchair 'experts'.

[Jimmy.]

eh, you Jimmy: "How almost zero airspeed "flare" could increase NR?" You can actually flare from a dive to horizontal, it works.
But in a dive I presume a pitch down that results in some airspeed, right? Descending at very low airspeed and low pitch down, doesn't make sense to me some aft cyclic increase NR or even arrest the rate of descent. If I'm missing something, please let me know.

[[email protected]]

AnFI - you do come up with some odd things sometimes - if the aircraft was descending vertically and spinning about the rotor axis, your theory (have you practised that technique) might be valid - BUT, in both the 139 video and the Welsh Lake (Not Vyrnwy but LLyn Peris) the aircraft had forward speed so pushing forward on the cyclic would assist.

I know you are an expert on all things aviation (you keep telling me so) but I knew the pilot in the Wessex and visited the crew in hospital the next day so I have a pretty good idea about what did and didn't work in that case.

Do you do much currency training in a twin simulator? Plenty of us here do and have done countless TR drive failures from different speeds and heights - moving the cyclic in a circular fashion to match the rate of rotation is not a recognised or even slightly valid technique.

[megan]

"to gain airspeed in a rotating helicopter ideally the cyclic needs to move in the cockpit at (negatively) the same rotational rate, ie constant bearingNot how it worked in the sim, just shove the stick forward accepting whatever rotation until airspeed obtained with the relevant sideslip, then fly to a suitable landing spot. Mind you, sims are not necessarily representative of the real thing, but that's what was being taught by a world preeminent sim training organisation.

[gulliBell]

...Plenty of us here do and have done countless TR drive failures from different speeds and heights - moving the cyclic in a circular fashion to match the rate of rotation is not a recognised or even slightly valid technique.

That's right.

[AnFI]

"match the rate of rotation is not a recognised or even slightly valid technique."That's right.

souldn't mix recognised and valid here. maybe not recognised but obviously valid.

if, by yaw, one keeps the horizontal component of thrust vector directed towards the center of a turn then the acceleration is towards the center of the turn.
no overall horizontal speed increase will occur. The bearing of the main rotor thrust needs to not be allowed to change (too much) with yaw if horizontal airspeed is desired, otherwise the new direction of mr thrust will negate some/most/all the speed increase.

seperately: the increased power consumption comes either from the engine (a move sometimes referred to as a 'sexy mushroom', if height is maintained) or in this case a higher rate of descent than would otherwise by the case. the measurement of speed in a steep nose down attitude is slightly confused by the rate of descent counting as speed wrt the longditudinal axis of the disc plane. that is why a flare is (effectively) possible at the bottom of a steep (funnel like) dive with very little horizontal speed.

i hope that answers the points about recognised methods, physics and flare from dive.


i am intruiged by Scorpygixxer skadi and Non-PC Plod (https://www.pprune.org/members/106966-non-pc-plod) posts, they do point to some other kind of confusion in this case. I suspect they are right.
Do we think this was a straight forward TR loss of thrust? Does seem strange as these 3 point out.
ShyTorque do you think this kind of helicopter has so little 'weather cocking' that it would go to 90 degrees from the cruise? Difficult to believe.
Hands off on autopilot i can see the pilots might get a bit behind events, especially if accustomed to YStab system dealing with normal yaw variations, but surely a pretty modest reduction in lever and a stick displaced to the right would preserve out of balance controlled flight.
Maybe they retarded the engines (classic mistake) as Scorpygixxer implies? (I cant really make out the coning angle on my screen, anyone?)

Can't wait to see the report (bets on 2 years plus?), maybe they just did what their sim instructor showed them after he'd talked to a pilot that once did the same mistake method?

["(Not Vyrnwy but LLyn Peris)" Not LLyn Peris either but Llyn Padarn according to the MOD report. Appendix A, Page 28, of this CAPAP2003_01.PDF is worth a read eg this: "

Shortly after the aircraft appeared to achieve stabilised flight, the nose began to rise and the aircraft decelerated. The aircraft was now close to its critical yaw angle, beyond which airflow separation over the rear fuselage/tail pylon occurs, thereby removing its yaw stabilising, ‘weather-cock’ effect. This angle appears to have been reached after 13 seconds of stable flight, when the yaw began to increase significantly.


" and "that there was a lack of adequate training for such an emergency" (in the RAF? surely not?)]

[SASless]

I am so glad to learn something new....after being involved in the helicopter business since 1967.....and always being a proponent of being able to learn from anyone and everyone no matter their experience level or background....I have to admit AnFi has come up with a new one on me.

Not a single book, article, training course, first hand experience or bar story ever surfaced anything remotely akin to what AnFi is telling us.

I can be convinced of new and innovative techniques.....but it does require some proving.

AnFi ain't there yet.

Care to lay it all out for us?

[Sir Korsky]

I am so glad to learn something new....after being involved in the helicopter business since 1967.....and always being a proponent of being able to learn from anyone and everyone no matter their experience level or background....I have to admit AnFi has come up with a new one on me.

Not a single book, article, training course, first hand experience or bar story ever surfaced anything remotely akin to what AnFi is telling us.

I can be convinced of new and innovative techniques.....but it does require some proving.

AnFi ain't there yet.

Care to lay it all out for us?

I think he's just stirring the pot and has a devious sense of humor. It does seem to rattle the cages of the regulars though and they really should know better to respond.

[ShyTorque]

ShyTorque (https://www.pprune.org/members/23551-shytorque) do you think this kind of helicopter has so little 'weather cocking' that it would go to 90 degrees from the cruise? Difficult to believe

Yes. If the tail rotor drive fails, anything might happen unless the correct immediate actions are taken.
Regarding the Wessex accident mentioned, I do know for a fact that RAF crews did not receive detailed simulator training for tail rotor malfunctions on that type (I flew it early in my career). I later became one of the staff who were tasked to develop a full motion sim. syllabus for training RAF helicopter pilots how to deal with T/R malfunctions on another type. Unfortunately there was no simulator that could be used for the Wessex and no interest, probably because the aircraft was approaching the end of its service life.

[[email protected]]

As ever AnFI - lots of wordy theory backed up with no practical experience.

Glad you spotted my red herring of the wrong Llyn;) At least it made you read the accident report.

The pilot attempted to regain speed - they were doing 60 kts when the driveshaft failed (due to the recoupling of the disconnect coupling and now vastly differing speeds of TR driveshaft and TR) - using forward cyclic but the only way to reduce the rotation was to chop the throttles (you can see in the video that the rate of rotation decreases).

The difficult bit was then judging the point to pull collective to cushion the touchdown whilst spinning - he got it close enough that the impact was survivable for all except, sadly, for some cabin occupants.

I would love to see you you use your 'theory' in a similar situation and manage to be even half as skillful as the pilot was that day.

BTW - who on earth refers to 'a sexy mushroom'????????

[ShyTorque]

I've never heard that phrase before. Maybe a sexy mushroom is a toad's tool?

[AnFI]

SASless
OF COURSE you already know that you need to point the stick in the direction you want to go !!!
Some people here seem to think you point the stick forward in the cockpit, and put the nose down, that is not the same thing when yawing.

We are all open to learning though, but I feel fairly certain that you must already understand this.
Full credit to you if you only just learned this and have the humility to admit it.
Maybe you would explain it for me to some of the Sim instructors here??

SirK
"rattle the cages of the regulars"
Not really. Or at least I don't mean to, other than perhaps with humour and goodwill.
There's one guy in particular here using underhand and unethical means to try to intimidate/insult me etc.
so when he wrongly corrects me I like to point out that he is wrong.
Flight is a science as well as an art.
Some people don't like when their PoF shortfall is exposed.
In the RAF I guess he would just order peoiple to "shut up, that's an order!".
I prefer reasoned physics and logic than the sniping.

Do we really want an echo-chamber of NorthSea, exRAF, where the world view is that Vortex ring is VooDoo, everything must be duplicated, probabilities come second to gut feel, science is just a clever way to bamboozle people who already have all the answers, urban autorotation is a 10^-9 Catastrophe !!?!!?

ShyTorque
You are clearly a genuine, distinguished and experienced pilot.
That makes it really difficult for me to understand your heli-world view:
"anything might happen" really, do you mean as in: "life is like a box of chocolates"?
Do they make helicopters where just anything might happen?
You said something about yawing through 90degrees
I was only asking if that was really what you thought happens, and now its even worse than that.
(some pilots have not even noticed that their TR Drive system failed 30mins previously in the cruise, its a long way from your 90 degrees etc strange world view)
"correct immediate actions are taken." you mean like using the controls for instance?

"crews did not receive detailed simulator training for tail rotor malfunctions" and that means the whole brewery couldn't organise for these guys to maintain SandL with sideslip. ("slowed till no longer yaw stable", "cut the throttles at 150ft") that DOES NOT NEED DETAILED SIMULATOR TRAINING - surely, really?? really??

"one of the staff who were tasked to develop a full motion sim. syllabus" (as was Crab I think??)

"no simulator that could be used for the Wessex and no interest"
So nothing achieved there then? why not just show it in flight?
5mins bar chat might obey the 80/20 rule?? If you actually knew what to say.

Difficult for me to understand how an experienced pilot can say all that, is this a special RAF thing or a 1967 thing?
Can you really believe what you just said, genuinely?
(You once said you were an engineer by training (i think?), but then said bending has nothing to do with shear, strangely)

Crab
"The pilot attempted to regain speed - they were doing 60 kts when the driveshaft failed"
No - you are completely wrong, again:
from the report:
"

Shortly after the aircraft appeared to achieve stabilised flight, the nose began to rise and the aircraft decelerated. The aircraft was now close to its critical yaw angle, beyond which airflow separation over the rear fuselage/tail pylon occurs, thereby removing its yaw stabilising, ‘weather-cock’ effect. This angle appears to have been reached after 13 seconds of stable flight, when the yaw began to increase significantly.


"

You live in a world where when a pilot simulates an emergency with cadet passengers on board(!), causing a TRDS failure, then screws up the response, everyone gets a medal and its a 'training problem'. You live in a fantasy world. Must be nice.

"the only way to reduce the rotation was to chop the throttles" also not true. Fatal consequences, incompetence (ie not competent to resolve a simple (self induced) tail rotor drive shaft failure, whilst in a simple flight regime, S&L. Just useless).





What was the budget of this helicopter unit?
$50m? $100m? and it takes how many people at a highly trained level to fail to carry a heart to transplant op.
Cudda got the nurse's brother's friend to carry it over for a share in the petrol. When is this going to get real?
Another helicopter not saved by having 2 engines.... post institutionalised folk damage civil aviation worldwide.

[Torquetalk]

Got to hand it to you AnFI, you are always good to pep up a thread or two for a few pages until it all gets google-eyed bananas.

You are of course right in one respect in particular: If they hadn‘t been flying that over-designed, overpowered helicopter, they would have had less of a yaw emergency to deal with. But don‘t waste your time here, write directly to the Japanese Police and paint a different, lower risk future.

btw you need to check in more often or pay more attention: Crab flies this type and will know very well how ugly LOTRT issues are in it.

Yours in sport

TT

[Search&Rescue]

Once the fuselage yaws 90 degrees to the direction of travel, the drag increases exponentially and you're an involuntary test pilot and might have little say in what the aircraft does, at least for a few seconds. With a rapidly rotating fuselage, pitch may become roll and roll may become pitch.

I agree! I just (3 days ago) had an opportunity to simulate a coupled cruise flight in A139 Sim (CAE) with a TR shaft failure. If the pilot DOESN’T REACT at all, the helicopter easily turns 90 degrees... 180 degrees... even 270 degrees... pitching and rolling quite violently. At least CAE SIM is modelled so... based on the data from Leonardo... I guess...🤔

Cheers! 😉

[tottigol]

Gents,
The AW-139 has both a FDR and a CVR, let's see what reading those two shall reveal.

[Search&Rescue]

Gents,
The AW-139 has both a FDR and a CVR, let's see what reading those two shall reveal.

It was a good ”time out” call Tottigoll! 😁 It will be interesting and a useful lesson to learn, when the report comes out... 😉

[ShyTorque]

I agree! I just (3 days ago) had an opportunity to simulate a coupled cruise flight in A139 Sim (CAE) with a TR shaft failure. If the pilot DOESN’T REACT at all, the helicopter easily turns 90 degrees... 180 degrees... even 270 degrees... pitching and rolling quite violently. At least CAE SIM is modelled so... based on the data from Leonardo... I guess...🤔

Cheers! 😉

SAR,
Irrespective of what you, the manufacturer and I think, it appears that this AnFI thinks he knows better, as is his way.

[Non-PC Plod]

The most common issue I see daily in the FFS when practising loss of TR thrust in cruise flight is pilots allowing the IAS to gradually bleed off while startled or distracted by looking for a landing site etc. If this happens there comes a point in the power/ airspeed combination when the nose suddenly and rapidly departs to the right. Unless you dump the lever rapido at this point, we are just counting down to the red screen. The yaw rate makes extremely difficult to gain airspeed whatever you try to do with the cyclic.

[AnFI]

I agree! I just (3 days ago) had an opportunity to simulate a coupled cruise flight in A139 Sim (CAE) with a TR shaft failure. If the pilot DOESN’T REACT at all, the helicopter easily turns 90 degrees... 180 degrees... even 270 degrees... pitching and rolling quite violently. At least CAE SIM is modelled so... based on the data from Leonardo... I guess...🤔

Cheers! 😉

I am sure that you are right that the SIM does this.
If the aircraft does this, then how is it allowed to fly?
Who would fly in such an aircraft? Darwinian process at work maybe?

ShyTorque
Yes it is hard to believe, but if you say this aircraft is that bad/dangerous i have to believe you. You say: "...you're an involuntary test pilot and might have little say in what the aircraft does, at least for a few seconds. With a rapidly rotating fuselage, pitch may become roll and roll may become pitch." Either it is that bad or you don't understand this (making you an ideal person to write the book??).

There are accident reports, an H369 in Australia is one, non-event. and a gazelle in UK where the drive shaft failures were bearly noticeable (in the Gazelle for HALF AN HOUR !!)

TorqueTalk
I know you are right. Just sad to have people believe they are buying an extreme safety level with this complextity.


tottigol agree
Non PC Plod quite right, an easy mistake to make

[[email protected]]

When you actually have something of value to say AnFI, then we can debate it but I think you should apologise publicly for trying to tarnish the reputation of a the Wessex pilot with this You live in a world where when a pilot simulates an emergency with cadet passengers on board(!), causing a TRDS failure, then screws up the response, everyone gets a medal and its a 'training problem'. You live in a fantasy world. Must be nice. You have no idea what happened and the fact was that he saved the lives of most of the people on board with some skillful flying following a failure that would have tested any pilot. You should be ashamed.

[AnFI]

You have a point and I really hate criticism of pilots but you are a hypocrite having made a much worse criticism of a similar kind.
One case was incompetence (by system or pilot), with fatalities.
The other you criticise was not the pilot and was a 'success'

There is no evidence for your false assertion: "saved the lives of most of the people on board with some skillful flying".

and I AM NOT really criticising the pilot.
It is quite clear that the training (competence) was not there, as the reports make clear.
(so because the training was not there the pilot was not equipped to apply "Skillful Flying", was he?) .


BUT seriously for a moment:
You teach in this type. We hear from ST how schockingly badly the SIM behaves.
What is the actual behaviour of the aircraft if you fly at zero TR thrust, are you just a passenger in a Forrest Gump world?
Is it like this: "...you're an involuntary test pilot and might have little say in what the aircraft does, at least for a few seconds. With a rapidly rotating fuselage, pitch may become roll and roll may become pitch."
Do you understand this subject yourself?

[PlasticCabDriver]

Unfortunately there was no simulator that could be used for the Wessex and no interest, probably because the aircraft was approaching the end of its service life.

By the mid 90s we were sent down to Culdrose to do TR failures in the Sea King sim. Nothing like a Wessex inside of course, but the blades went round the right way so it at least responded in the correct manner. Not perfect at all, but better than nothing.

SASless
"...maintain SandL with sideslip...”

In a Wessex?

Towards the end the instructor got us to set the aircraft in a particular configuration, then failed the TR without warning (we knew it was coming of course, that was the point of the exercise, but not exactly when). To a man we all crashed. We were then told that this was the configuration of the Wessex when the TR failed. When we repeated the exercise knowing it was coming, and got the throttles chopped smartly, most survived.


BTW - who on earth refers to 'a sexy mushroom'????????

You’ve never seen me naked....

[AnFI]

"in a Wessex?" I presume you disagree with the CAA on this:

"

This depends heavily on the yaw stiffness of the aircraft without TR thrust. For example, the Gazelle, Squirrel, Jetranger, Sea King and Wessex are relatively stable, whereas the Lynx and Puma are relatively unstable.


"
Maybe you are right and they are wrong?

"and got the throttles chopped smartly"
chopping the 'throttles' is normally a really bad idea, lowering the lever does what you need, most of the time, unless you want to lose the RRPM too??

and the Wessex case was not entirely without warning:

"However, the simulated yaw channel runaway manoeuvre involved the application of considerable sideforce, which with the resultant requirement for higher TR thrust, generated a high load on the tail structure. This caused increased bending forces in the tail boom, which tended to stretch the transmission train, and resulted in the minimal engagement of the disconnect coupling being lost. "

have a nice day.

[AnFI]

what's the 'yaw stiffness' on a 139 like? is it really as bad as ShyTorque suggests?

[Search&Rescue]

what's the 'yaw stiffness' on a 139 like? is it really as bad as ShyTorque suggests?

I can only describe, how it is modelled in the Sim... but within 5-6 sec the nose will turn approximately 90 degrees to the right... if the pilots are not doing anything e.g. during cruise flight and the TR shaft failure occurs... and the turning tendency will continue...
Btw. e.g. S76 behaviour was modelled a similar way and AS332L1 (of course the nose was then turning to the left) as well.

Btw. I can understand your description: ”There are accident reports, an H369 in Australia is one, non-event. and a gazelle in UK where the drive shaft failures were bearly noticeable (in the Gazelle for HALF AN HOUR !!)”
Especially concerning ”the Gazelle case”... IMHO. the helicopters with a Fenestron Tail are different... when I got my EC135 TRI training in Germany, the EC TRI Didi B. told me his experience with a TR shaft failure... He could fly level flight with that failure and autorotate later on, when he was close by a suitable landing area. I don’t have any other referencies from pilots, who have experienced a real TR shaft failure.🤔

Cheers! 😉

[skadi]

I don’t have any other referencies from pilots, who have experienced a real TR shaft failure.🤔

Cheers! 😉

Last century, the CEO of the german gummibear factory HARIBO, Hans Riegel, lost the tailrotor of his A109 and managed to land safely at Cologne or Hangelar Airfield. As far as I remember the report, they didnt notice the loss at first....

skadi

[[email protected]]

Still waiting for some detail on your experience in medium twins, either in the aircraft or a full motion sim AnFI.

When you can demonstrate that you have any understanding of what you are talking about then people might listen.

Some of us have been teaching TR malfunctions in aircraft and simulators for many years.......

BTW, the skillful flying was not becoming a passenger and managing to keep the aircraft upright and in a condition where a landing could be cushioned - that is why they didn't all die but you obviously know better......

[Search&Rescue]

Last century, the CEO of the german gummibear factory HARIBO, Hans Riegel, lost the tailrotor of his A109 and managed to land safely at Cologne or Hangelar Airfield. As far as I remember the report, they didnt notice the loss at first....

skadi

Thanx for the additional info Skadi!

Concerning AW139, most of the ATO’s are instructing the pilots to autorotate in case of TR shaft failure during the cruise flight...
And the QRH Emerg guidence is vey clear concerning cruise flight:

Lower collective immediately!


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/1718537a_dd3b_4cbb_b210_3af84ce434b1_f55ef0cf7c1f88a6a80a149 3c122699d4874580e.png

[Non-PC Plod]

Thanx for the additional info Skadi!

Concerning AW139, most of the ATO’s are instructing the pilots to autorotate in case of TR shaft failure during the cruise flight...
And the QRH Emerg guidence is vey clear concerning cruise flight:

Lower collective immediately!


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/1718537a_dd3b_4cbb_b210_3af84ce434b1_f55ef0cf7c1f88a6a80a149 3c122699d4874580e.png
I hate that wording.
If you start farting about "assessing your running landing capability", and think you can carry out a running landing with suitable power and speed", the chances are, its going to be a messy finish!

[Search&Rescue]

I hate that wording.
If you start farting about "assessing your running landing capability", and think you can carry out a running landing with suitable power and speed", the chances are, its going to be a messy finish!

Totally agree with you Non-PC Plod.

[Lonewolf_50]

I hate that wording.
If you start farting about "assessing your running landing capability", and think you can carry out a running landing with suitable power and speed", the chances are, its going to be a messy finish! My gut agrees with you, but (different type and model, to be sure) didn't one of the Brits in Afghanistan manage something like that with an Apache a few years ago? Can't remember if the TR was totally gone or if it was stuck ...
(Not sure of the original thread is on Mil Av or Rotor heads. )

[[email protected]]

I hate that wording.
If you start farting about "assessing your running landing capability", and think you can carry out a running landing with suitable power and speed", the chances are, its going to be a messy finish! I think it is just Ass-covering so the manufacturer can say they offered another option to an engines off landing. We practised stuck TR landings on the 365 up to about 45 kts run on and that was only with about half an inch of left pedal applied - with a complete TR fail you are probably talking 80 kts unless you have a very strong crosswind from the right (for clockwise rotors) to help you keep straight.

ISTR the Apache was a TR drive failure and it was a very fast landing.

[SASless]

MBB pushed the Run On Landing technique for the BK-117 and one Operator I worked for incorporated that into our training and check rides.

When doing a stuck right pedal exercise we found ourselves whizzing down the runway at 110 Knots IAS....I had the temerity to challenge our Chief Pilot's wisdom.

I proposed entering autorotation, pulling the engines to "Off", and landing with no engine power going to the drivetrain and a near zero groundspeed, saying I felt that would be far safer, smarter, and have a much better outcome.....it was not received well.

After all....did not the maker of the aircraft know better than anyone else about their machine?

The thought of doing that kind of landing....at night...with engines and rotor at full chat....with no pedal control....touching down at 110 knots having only collective movement to assist in yaw control......well...that just scared me to death.

I have done lots of touch down autorotations over my career...including two for real....and those are far easier on the flight suit and underwear than the other option would be.

[megan]

I seem to recall a -76 that made a successful run on landing following a T/R drive failure.

[SASless]

As we mention successes....how about failed attempts..... I am sure there are plenty of those to recall.

[Search&Rescue]

I seem to recall a -76 that made a successful run on landing following a T/R drive failure.

Engines OFF or ON? 🤔

[megan]

S&R, from memory it was a write up in "Rotor & Wing" many, many years ago, as to details I don't recall, other than they ran off the side of the runway and came to a stop in the grass without inflicting further damage.

[Search&Rescue]

S&R, from memory it was a write up in "Rotor & Wing" many, many years ago, as to details I don't recall, other than they ran off the side of the runway and came to a stop in the grass without inflicting further damage.

Ok, thanx Megan! I was just wondering... Because I don’t recall any power ON procedures/approaches/landings instructed e.g.
by Flight Safety in case of TR shaft failure... that’s why I was asking. 😉

[tottigol]

https://mainichi.jp/articles/20200206/ddl/k07/040/094000c?fbclid=IwAR1JDySJDloTk06eCklCS3OOrsYT1FT-VSlx2jDqJloX7qBcmzpxuKpzbWI

Latest rumors point to a possible cause for the loss of control...

[SASless]

Might as well be Greek to me!

The photo certainly shows some real interest in the Tail Rotor Drive Shaft doesn't it!

Any other evidence....photos, news articles, that point to that as being the cause?

[tottigol]

Might as well be Greek to me!

The photo certainly shows some real interest in the Tail Rotor Drive Shaft doesn't it!

Any other evidence....photos, news articles, that point to that as being the cause?
I believe there was another photo, I sent you a message on your phone.

[Non-PC Plod]

Google translate on the article refers to a broken TRDS, but also says that part was missing?

[Misformonkey]

Or was it a Sea King?

[Georg1na]

I proposed entering autorotation, pulling the engines to "Off", and landing with no engine power going to the drivetrain and a near zero groundspeed, saying I felt that would be far safer, smarter, and have a much better outcome.....

SAS you are so right!! Been there!

[LSBL]

Am I am translating this correctly, Japan Transport Safety Board published this two days ago:
Unfortunately I cant post the link
TRDS pieces were found 1.5 km from landing site and they suspect that MRB collided with TRDS.
Is there any experience pilot to clarify what is the regime/Nr drop which could get blade to flex that much?

[noooby]

Wowsers!!!

On 25th February, JTSB released a press release which indicates the cause of the accident was fracture of the tail rotor drive shaft by contact with a main rotor blade. The shapes of the dent on the tip of the contacted main rotor blade and a fractured segment of the tail rotor drive shaft found apart from the accident site matched each other.

[A109drvr]

I recently experienced bio-mechanical feedback aka collective bounce in an AW-139 due to a sudden downdraft while I had the collective trigger pulled. I could absolutely believe the oscillations rapidly progressing to the point where the MR could flex down enough to hit the tail boom. If these guys were in heavy turbulence..

[malabo]

The sort of stuff you see on a certification flight, where they are still trying to figure out rotor dynamics, but the 139 is a proven 20 year old mature design. No “Bollettino tecnico” from Leonardo, so still a story to tell, I doubt there is a design issue. The last 2 minutes of FDM could be interesting.

[Arcal76]

I am curious to know how this was possible??? We all fly with strong wind or turbulence. Now if they decide to fly under severe turbulence,it is a different problem. I am curious to know what the FDR is gone say and what wind conditions they had, it does not make sense.

[Washeduprotorgypsy]

Well here’s to hoping they were just using the nearest ridge line to embellish on the “light hearted” joke made in the back.

[Search&Rescue]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x765/0da2c2dc_2d53_464c_99e1_86aa7f75f6f5_0991ff4dac8ff541d32f258 4c6c9ba4da8166945.jpeg

This picture of the TR shaft is interesting... What has made the ”clean cut” on the left end of the TR shaft? The MR has most likely caused the right end damages...but....🤔 Btw. The GPS antenna is located just above the left cutting point of the TR shaft...🤔

[Search&Rescue]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x960/8c013067_716a_4a24_93aa_e921349eebb9_dac86af9c8607735ab28471 a6cf6de90f7811233.jpeg

GPS antenna located above the TR shaft.

[ShyTorque]

I can imagine a scenario where the damaged section of the driveshaft cover was pressed downwards onto the shaft, a score line could easily be formed, such that the shaft broke cleanly across it. These driveshafts are lightweight by design and it wouldn't take much damage to cause it to shear.

I consider myself lucky to have escaped an inclined driveshaft failure on an S-76 when an inadequately secured part of the wiring harness contacted it (a maintenance error). As it happened, it involved the wiring to the TGB chip detector and that shorted out, putting on the chip warning light. I put out a Pan call and inside two minutes I was on the ground at the minor airfield I just happened to passing and talking to. Even by then, although the wiring wasn't heavy in weight, it had badly scored the shaft, which had to be scrapped.

[SASless]

It takes very little to fatally score a drive shift.

Having flown the Chinook with what seems miles of the things....every four hour maintenance break or routine inspection found a crew member and pilot on hands and knees inspecting the Synchronization Shaft (the long multi-sectioned shaft that connects the two Rotor systems together) and running bare hands underneath the shaft and into the coupling wells looking for FOD.

Failure of that shaft was invariably fatal.

I once had an Engineer "lose" his rubber covered flashlight (Torch) inside my S-58T.

During a morning (in the daylight) Daily Inspection I found it for him by peering back into the dark of the engine compartment and seeing a bright line running around the shaft....with a flashlight switch assembly laying atop the shaft.

Had that shaft failed during the previous night's flying....it would have been curtains for us I am. quite sure...Winter, stormy seas, very early days of the Ninian Field being under construction.

I kept the shaft as a souvenir for years.

Keeping a sharp eye on Drive Shafts can be a life saver....that and doing a detailed inspection anytime there is suspicion or suggestion something might be wrong.

[John Eacott]

It takes very little to fatally score a drive shaft.

One dark and stormy night (as were all winter nights on the Brent Field) I chanced the first landing on a new trolley on the Treasure Finder, which put the front of the 212 out over the edge of the deck. During shut down there was a hefty gust of wind which rocked the slowing blades enough for the TR Drive Shaft to be cut through by the tip of one blade. The cut through the drive shaft was as neat as if it was done on a bench with a fine saw, yet there was not a mark on either blade tip.

If something caught on the 139 TRDS it wouldn't have taken much to weaken and sever the shaft IMO.

[Ascend Charlie]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1457x906/phx_chop_02c385ae18a99855ff27eb6948e36b6ff5c8d58b.jpg
Ouch...
The morning DJ on 2-MMM, Doug Mulray, said "Poor old Polair Two - last night they were practising emergency landings, and he cut his own @rse off!"

[megan]

It takes very little to fatally score a drive shift.Friend cranked up a 212, took off, experienced a high freq and promptly landed. A screw driver had been left in the tail rotor tunnel and in that short time had cut half way through the shaft.

[Search&Rescue]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1457x906/phx_chop_02c385ae18a99855ff27eb6948e36b6ff5c8d58b.jpg
Ouch...
The morning DJ on 2-MMM, Doug Mulray, said "Poor old Polair Two - last night they were practising emergency landings, and he cut his own @rse off!"

There might be several reasons for that incident if the intention was a ”all the way down” autorotation... e.g. that the pilot never levelled the helicopter before touchdown... if the tailguard is touching the ground first; the tailboom will ”jump up” and the MR will cut the boom immediately...

[gulliBell]

On that prang they didn't lower the collective on touchdown and the aircraft briefly got airborne again. When the aircraft touched down the 2nd time it rocked forward and in doing so the MRB chopped the tail boom. Two years later they sunk it properly off Sydney heads after an engine failure.

[Search&Rescue]

On that prang they didn't lower the collective on touchdown and the aircraft briefly got airborne again. When the aircraft touched down the 2nd time it rocked forward and in doing so the MRB chopped the tail boom. Two years later they sunk it properly off Sydney heads after an engine failure.

Ok, thanx GulliBell for this additional info... It is a good reminder why the proper pilot techniques are important...

[Ascend Charlie]

Search and Rescue : not on this occasion.
Geez, Gullibell, were you there??? Bet you wasn't.

I was.

We were required by CA$A to do touchdown autos at night to an unlit pad, in order to be allowed to fly below LSALT at night in a single. Everybody was required to do the night checks every 3 months, and one pilot (who sadly is no longer with us) had been ducking and weaving that roster. I surprised him one night and away we went. I demo'd the first one so he could get his eye in.

On his first auto I put on the power and we went around from final, as he hadn't made the "gate" of 100', 60kt and stable approach. On the second one, all looked good, the flare, the pitch pull and nose over to level, waiting to cushion on, but the ground was 6" higher than we expected. Bounce. I took over, tried to ensure level and cushion on, but it bounced again. Never seen that before, we were out of collective and just along for the ride.

Thump onto the ground, sitting a little closer to the grass than normal. Obviously we had spread the skids, and probably rocked the transmission out of limits. Shut it down, advised the tower we would be there for a while to inspect it, stepped out and looked back.

"Oh, pharque!"

The other pilot steps out and looks back. "Ohhh, pharque!" The observer in the back clambers out. "Awwww, pharque!"

The Follow Me jeep comes trundling along a taxiway, and as he turns towards our spot, the headlights play over the machine. He screeches to a stop. "Ohh, Pharque!" and on it went.

I have still got the tail rotor blade, which had dug into the ground next to the stinger, on a wooden plaque on my wall. Yes it did go for a swim a few years later, with a different tail boom.

[gulliBell]

Geez, Gullibell, were you there??? Bet you wasn't.


Nah, I was down the road in Canberra that day. Just heard the story doing the rounds. But, the first hand account is always better.

[SASless]

AC.....now there is a for real "There I wuz" story!:D

Amazing how those sudden onsets of excessive gravity can affect helicopter flight dynamics!

[Search&Rescue]

Search and Rescue : not on this occasion.
Geez, Gullibell, were you there??? Bet you wasn't.

I was.

We were required by CA$A to do touchdown autos at night to an unlit pad, in order to be allowed to fly below LSALT at night in a single. Everybody was required to do the night checks every 3 months, and one pilot (who sadly is no longer with us) had been ducking and weaving that roster. I surprised him one night and away we went. I demo'd the first one so he could get his eye in.

On his first auto I put on the power and we went around from final, as he hadn't made the "gate" of 100', 60kt and stable approach. On the second one, all looked good, the flare, the pitch pull and nose over to level, waiting to cushion on, but the ground was 6" higher than we expected. Bounce. I took over, tried to ensure level and cushion on, but it bounced again. Never seen that before, we were out of collective and just along for the ride.

Thump onto the ground, sitting a little closer to the grass than normal. Obviously we had spread the skids, and probably rocked the transmission out of limits. Shut it down, advised the tower we would be there for a while to inspect it, stepped out and looked back.

"Oh, pharque!"

The other pilot steps out and looks back. "Ohhh, pharque!" The observer in the back clambers out. "Awwww, pharque!"

The Follow Me jeep comes trundling along a taxiway, and as he turns towards our spot, the headlights play over the machine. He screeches to a stop. "Ohh, Pharque!" and on it went.

I have still got the tail rotor blade, which had dug into the ground next to the stinger, on a wooden plaque on my wall. Yes it did go for a swim a few years later, with a different tail boom.

Thanx for sharing your experience AC! 🙏 Highly appreciated! 💪👍😊

[ShyTorque]

Ah, EOLs.....Some years ago, in my QHI'ing days, I was programmed to fly a revision sortie with a student I'd not flown with before, just before his final handling test (and his award of RAF flying badge / "wings"). His training record had temporarily gone missing (!) so I spoke to his usual instructor who told me that he was very steady and competent but had occasionally had a bit of a "brain fart"......

He flew the full FHT profile as briefed to a very nice standard, low level nav to a confined area, circuits, quickstops, spot turns, sloping ground, emergency drills, etc - the lot. The final part of such a sortie was always an EOL, to a full touchdown. I briefed him to carry out a variable flare profile to the grass at Ternhill. He flew a mainly textbook EOL, i.e. "Flare, Check, Level" were all perfectly done. Unfortunately, when it got to the final "cushion" using collective, he inexplicably and rapidly applied full aft cyclic but didn't raise the collective at all! I took control very promptly and managed to gain a little altitude to clear the tail, whilst levelling again and then cushioned on with what little collective was left - it was a firm touchdown, but in the correct attitude. I shut down the rotors and went back to see if there was any damage (TBH I didn't think there would be any) because the Gazelle had been known to crease its tailboom after a very heavy landing. It was fine but looking further back I saw that the "frangible" tail fairing was a bit the worse for wear. I knew I couldn't have done that so I walked back up the field about 75 metres to see slight witness marks in the grass showing that it had just kissed the ground in a "three point" landing with the rear of the skids. Doh!

We did fly the aircraft home, after the engineers had come out fitted a new "frange" but obviously it was my fault.
The student passed his FHT (not with me) and later did very well - he went on to become the squadron commander of that same training outfit.

[Arcal76]

It still does not explained everything ??
Blades are very stiff on the 139. The all tail was chopped touching ground, I don't believe this idea of cutting the drive shaft in flight.
it is not a 206 or a Robinson.
It makes no sense and we need more info's and data to figure out what's happened.

[PlasticCabDriver]

I can imagine a scenario where the damaged section of the driveshaft cover was pressed downwards onto the shaft, a score line could easily be formed, such that the shaft broke cleanly across it. These driveshafts are lightweight by design and it wouldn't take much damage to cause it to shear.

I consider myself lucky to have escaped an inclined driveshaft failure on an S-76 when an inadequately secured part of the wiring harness contacted it (a maintenance error). As it happened, it involved the wiring to the TGB chip detector and that shorted out, putting on the chip warning light. I put out a Pan call and inside two minutes I was on the ground at the minor airfield I just happened to passing and talking to. Even by then, although the wiring wasn't heavy in weight, it had badly scored the shaft, which had to be scrapped.

Similar on a 330. One of the clips securing the GPS antenna wire had failed and the wire sagged just enough to touch the top of the TRDS. No idea how long it had been like that but it had already removed the paint off the shaft.

[wrench1]

I don't believe this idea of cutting the drive shaft in flight. it is not a 206 or a Robinson. It makes no sense...
FWIW: I recall several 212s in the GOM having cut TR DS. One was from a pair of pliers left under the shaft, other was from a coax rubbing on the shaft. Cut them till they failed. A lot of people also don't think a plastic tywrap can cut a SS hydraulic line--it can and very efficiently. Will be interesting to read the explanation for the "cut" on the forward end of the failed shafts.

[ShyTorque]

An A109 (in Ireland if my memory’s correct) suffered a tail rotor driveshaft failure caused by nothing sharper than a cleaning rag.

[RVDT]

To add to the 206 drift:

VH-PHX most often heard on the radio as "PARTILLIKS"

I longlined it out of the harbour with a 205 on to a barge. Being a heavy machine and completely waterlogged we could only get it 2/3rds of the way out of the water on to the beach so we could remove the seats and a whole bunch of other crap then slung it on to the barge just before it got too dark to see!!

It flew again as PHX until retired and sold and became SVW only to have a proper job done on it in the Blue Mountains while fire-fighting. Something about low fuel and only one boost pump operating anyone?

[Ascend Charlie]

RVDT, you might be confusing it with PHW, which Chucky would call "Parteliski", much the same as Bananas would call his BHU as "Brartelform".

[megan]

AC, our Wessex lads used to do night EOL's until one aircraft had its tail wheel modified to a retractable. Practice ceased.

[Ascend Charlie]

Yeah, it was like practising bleeding.

[SASless]

During my time flying Hueys in the US Army, we did EOL's day and night routinely.

Lots and lots of Day EOL's....literally hundreds of them.

Nights....not so many but lots.

We also practiced coping with Tail Rotor failures as well.

There was ample reason for ensuring a high level of proficiency in those skills.....as we were engaged in a War that guaranteed the need for such proficiency.

It paid off when it was needed and greatly reduced the casualty rate from such incidents.

In Peace Time....the cost/risk considerations skew the decision towards not doing as many and then only in very controlled circumstances.

[Sir Korsky]

Some more interesting post crash images here...

Fukushima Police Leonardo AW139 Accident: JTSB Update - Aerossurance (http://aerossurance.com/helicopters/fukushima-police-aw139-ja139f/)