Jump Pilot

[Pilot715]

Wondering what the pay is like for a jump pilot in 206 and 208

[Cessna 200]

It should be as per the award, but sadly very few jump pilots are paid like that. You can't really blame the owner/operator as jump flying is normally seen as a way of building hours quickly and moving on.

[The name is Porter]

There is no award when it's a private operation. i.e. when it's out of a small Cessna, (not a Van) If you are with a decent operator that runs the smaller aircraft you will more than likely get paid 'per load.' No fly, no pay. It's a great first job!

[Ixixly]

There is no award when it's a private operation. i.e. when it's out of a small Cessna, (not a Van) If you are with a decent operator that runs the smaller aircraft you will more than likely get paid 'per load.' No fly, no pay. It's a great first job!

CAN be a great first job, CAN. Definitely don't let yourself get used for nothing and make sure you don't treat it as some burden of a hoop you just need to jump through (Pun intended). Enjoy it, challenge yourself to always be doing better and learn whatever you can along the way.

[Steepclimb]

Best flying ever but no fly no pay. Best years of my life. Barely paid for anything. Wouldn't take it back for any reason.

Flying at it's pureist and some magical moments if you love flying.

But no career, having said that I was pleased to facilitate several great pilots further their career.

You'll end up a great stick and rudder pilot.

[evilducky]

There is no award when it's a private operation.

A convenient interpretation taken by employers seeking not to pay the award.

Prior to a series of capital raisings and average acquisitions which subsequently decimated the share price, the biggest skydive mob in this country had a market capitalisation larger than Rex. And yet almost all of its pilots were ‘independent contractors,’ paid far less than the award, with many struggling to make ends meet.

Share price is now a third of its peak, just warms my heart.

[YPJT]

Well if jump pilots are getting paid these days that’s great. Go back 15 years or so and just about every fcukwit DZ operator was adamant they were doing you favour by giving you free hours.

[Climb150]

Evilducky,
I worked for this company you speak of. I think the award at the tine was about $690 a week gross. As a contractor I made $900 a week gross. Every week flying or not but I averaged 20 hours a week over 8 months. I think I was still better off as a contractor.

Not as bad as yoy say.

[kingRB]

As a contractor I made $900 a week gross

Contractors was a recent thing. Just another way for them to avoid paying super and insurances. I'm assuming you ended up paying all of this yourself under your own Pty Ltd while "contracting" to them.

[Aussie Bob]

Contractors was a recent thing. Just another way for them to avoid paying super and insurances. I'm assuming you ended up paying all of this yourself under your own Pty Ltd while "contracting" to them.

I contract myself to avoid paying either super or insurance, both of which are fraught with risk IMHO :)

[havick]

Isn’t there case law to the effect of if you earn x% of your wage through a company, then you’re deemed to be a full time employee and not a contractor?

[kingRB]

I contract myself to avoid paying either super or insurance, both of which are fraught with risk IMHO

so your obscure opinion on not paying superannuation justifies supporting employers that are actively seeking to erode pay and conditions any way they can. Ok.

Isn’t there case law to the effect of if you earn x% of your wage through a company, then you’re deemed to be a full time employee and not a contractor?

If there is it doesn't seem to stop those willing to accept these rubbish conditions.

[Bend alot]

Evilducky,
I worked for this company you speak of. I think the award at the tine was about $690 a week gross. As a contractor I made $900 a week gross. Every week flying or not but I averaged 20 hours a week over 8 months. I think I was still better off as a contractor.

Not as bad as yoy say.

Award $690 + 25% Casual Loading (or holidays and sick leave) = $862.50. + Supa @ 9.5% = $944.43.
Contractor $900 (they should deduct Supa from that) = $814.50 (ish).

Award will get you other entitlements, such as meal and OT.

So you would have been better off on the Award.

I doubt as an employee, they would have you sitting around while a contractor flew - so still your 20 hours.

[Aussie Bob]

so your obscure opinion on not paying superannuation justifies supporting employers that are actively seeking to erode pay and conditions any way they can. Ok.
Pardon me? Your reading a lot into a little that you know nothing about :) I am the director of a Pty Ltd company I own and my tax is done by a chartered accountant.

[evilducky]

Evilducky,
I worked for this company you speak of. I think the award at the tine was about $690 a week gross. As a contractor I made $900 a week gross. Every week flying or not but I averaged 20 hours a week over 8 months. I think I was still better off as a contractor.

Not as bad as yoy say.

The award for an IFR Caravan driver hasn't been $690 a week in a long time.

Single Engine 3360kg and above - $54,326 annually
Requirement to hold a CIR - $6,316 additional

So the full time award salary would be $60,639 annually or $1,166 per week gross. Go to casual and it's 1/800th of the annual salary plus 25% loading, $94.75 per flight hour. At 20 hours a week that makes $1,895/week, not considering minimum hours pay or other allowances.

Is $1,895/week too much to be paying a skydive pilot? Probably.

Were you better off as a contractor? No.

[Bend alot]

Pardon me? Your reading a lot into a little that you know nothing about :) I am the director of a Pty Ltd company I own and my tax is done by a chartered accountant.

If you are "contracting" as a Pilot, you are in a grey area and possibly very dark grey (Pty Ltd is just an extra layer of obscure for people supplying labour only), if you bring more to the table in way of assets (buildings ,AOC or aircraft) you are in clear colours.

Being a director and using chartered accountants - well a good accountant! as they say - but they are not going to take the fall if the tax man calls. You signed that document the chartered accountant gave you.

That said Pty is far better than using an ABN (unless low income) and always use a chartered accountant, even if just for the extension times they get for submitting.

[kingRB]

If you are "contracting" as a Pilot, you are in a grey area and possibly very dark grey (Pty Ltd is just an extra layer of obscure for people supplying labour only)

this was in essence what the company was doing when it first started "contracting" all staff that were originally under employment by the company. They were told to make provision to become a contractor to the company or look elsewhere for work. All insurance requirements, superannuation etc was now the responsibility of
the "contractor". They did not provide assets, just labour.

Pardon me? Your reading a lot into a little that you know nothing about https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif I am the director of a Pty Ltd company I own and my tax is done by a chartered accountant.

perhaps i've misunderstood what you said, are you saying that you contract as a pilot, providing labour only, flying their aircraft? Who is responsible for paying your super savings?

[Climb150]

To the person who questioned my award pay of $690, I flew the 206 most of the time. They actually had one. Dont always assume.

[evilducky]

To the person who questioned my award pay of $690, I flew the 206 most of the time. They actually had one. Dont always assume.

Ah my apologies, your name clearly suggested you were going to FL150. Although hey the vans rarely get above 10,000ft despite the punters paying for 14,000, so you're right, probably shouldn't have assumed.

Were you better off as a contractor? Still no.

[Climb150]

Ducky,

I disagree. I obviously had to pay tax on my earnings but unlike many I still put the appropriate amount in my super. I will give you an example at 2018 tax rates.

Award $690 per week
Super $59.60
Other taxes $65 (includes Medicare)
So take home $565.40

Contractor $900 per week
Super $78.08
Other tax $120.00 (includes Medicare)
Take home $701.92

Better off as a contractor I say. Thats an extra $6480 a year. Easily makes up for lack of paid holidays or sickies.

I believe the ATO now have strict guidelines on who qualifies as a contractor. I dont think I could do it now unless I worked for multiple drop zones during the year (very possible).

[evilducky]

So we’re clear Climb150, the award for Single Engine 1360kg - 3359kg was last $690 a week full time in 2011. It is currently $899 a week.

Accepting that $690 might have been the full time award, as a casual employee you would have been entitled to $56.23 per flight hour (1/800th of the annual award plus 25% in lieu of annual leave and job security). Still at your 20 hours on average a week this comes out to $1124.50 plus super, or $1231.33.

Even if you were full time, cashing out annual leave accrued adds 11.5% (6/52 of the annual salary) and then 9.5% super. $834.90 per week. Add allowances and you’re on par with your $900, but with a guaranteed income each and every week, job security, sick leave, protection against being dismissed on a whim, renewals, medical, loss of licence and ASIC paid for, no grey area over legal responsibility as a contractor, no time spent doing invoices, no quarterly activity statements to the ATO.

Said company is not employing pilots as contractors because of some altruistic notion that it’s better for the pilots. They are employing pilots as contractors because it saves the company money. If employing them as employees and paying award was cheaper, they would be.

[evilducky]

Wondering what the pay is like for a jump pilot in 206 and 208

Forgot to answer the original question! The big blue pays contractors $23/load for turbines and $18/load for pistons, 3 load minimum. Well at least they did two years ago, but can’t see them getting a pay rise while the share price continues to tank.

[Global Aviator]

I’ll defo be shot down here but fark... So many got a start dropping meat bombs in a quid pro quo type of deal. Yeah how many of us wouldn’t have jumped if we directly paid for a course (yes ok we did pay directly by not getting paid but you know what I mean)? Yes we got a skin full of piss at the end of the day, flew some ****e heaps, the odd scare but heck I look back at the very short short term I did and what I learnt.

Yes it’s different now with the big businesses and it being a more professional set up, pilot costs certainly part of doing business. It’s not like they don’t earn enough. Even way back yonder they made enough to pay but well didn’t cause suckers like us let them get away with it.

Contracting... please who gives a fook if it suits you the individual doing the work? Especially if it’s a stepping stone, the small amount you’ll earn in super means what? Ok if your going to make a career out of dropping meat bombs different story.

[Aussie Bob]

So it works a bit differently if you have a company. I do. Let's call it AB Pty Ltd.

Aussie Bob, as a representative and director of AB Pty Ltd offers the services of a pilot to Joe Jumpalot skydivers for $90.00 per flying hour. Joe agrees.
Joe gets invoiced by AB Pty Ltd for 10 hours piloting in the first weekend, $900.00
Joe pays the invoice to AB Pty Ltd
Aussie Bob decides to work for next to nothing and takes out of AB Pty Ltd as a wage, $200 per week. This is below the tax threshold and no super contributions are required.
AB Pty Ltd now has a bit of money in the kitty and can buy some assets. Perhaps a car, or a plane or whatever.
AB Pty Ltd has only one employee who happens to be the director.

On it goes, totally legally. Come tax time Aussie Bob has not earned a taxable income and owes no super. He doesn't give a fig that there is no insurance or super anyway, all is good in his world. He has had fun and put food on the table.

A simplistic way of putting it, but its totally legal and the way of many. What we hope as company directors is that by the time retirement comes around, the company has enough assets or is saleable to fund said retirement.

If the company earns enough then company tax is payable. In some instances it is less costly to pay a dividend to the the director to lessen the company tax bill and this dividend goes on the directors income so is taxable.

After all that I am lost and need an accountant and an accountant to do the company return is a legal requirement for a Pty Ltd company as far as I am aware. I use one.

[WannaBeBiggles]

So it works a bit differently if you have a company. I do. Let's call it AB Pty Ltd.

Aussie Bob, as a representative and director of AB Pty Ltd offers the services of a pilot to Joe Jumpalot skydivers for $90.00 per flying hour. Joe agrees.
Joe gets invoiced by AB Pty Ltd for 10 hours piloting in the first weekend, $900.00
Joe pays the invoice to AB Pty Ltd
Aussie Bob decides to work for next to nothing and takes out of AB Pty Ltd as a wage, $200 per week. This is below the tax threshold and no super contributions are required.
AB Pty Ltd now has a bit of money in the kitty and can buy some assets. Perhaps a car, or a plane or whatever.
AB Pty Ltd has only one employee who happens to be the director.

On it goes, totally legally. Come tax time Aussie Bob has not earned a taxable income and owes no super. He doesn't give a fig that there is no insurance or super anyway, all is good in his world. He has had fun and put food on the table.

A simplistic way of putting it, but its totally legal and the way of many. What we hope as company directors is that by the time retirement comes around, the company has enough assets or is saleable to fund said retirement.

If the company earns enough then company tax is payable. In some instances it is less costly to pay a dividend to the the director to lessen the company tax bill and this dividend goes on the directors income so is taxable.

After all that I am lost and need an accountant and an accountant to do the company return is a legal requirement for a Pty Ltd company as far as I am aware. I use one.

Enlighten me as to how having no super is a good thing?

[Aussie Bob]

Read the post properly. A mature cmapany may well be worth more than enough for retirement. Isn't that what super is for? A retirement fund is a retirement fund.

[Climb150]

Ducky,

I chose to be on an ABN because it suited me better. The company were happy to put me on fulltime. I did it because I didnt see myself being there for more than a year and this gave them and me flexibility.

The company isnt always out to screw you. I have found most employers in my lifetime to be reasonable when you approach them with a serious proposition about employment arrangements. Admittedly in aviation and especially for your first job some people will do anything. So employers screw them accordingly.

My stance of not working for free or below award probably is to blame for it taking over 2 years to score my first flying job.

[PubliusNaso]

So as a PPL working towards 200 hours and CPL, looking at this as a job that seems, from a flying perspective, to be fun, with no intention of going onwards to airlines or the like - recommended or not?

I'd heard the per load figures; I wasn't even aware that there were full-time positions.

I've pondered the JPA, JPA/Turbine through the AJPA but does it make sense to do those cold and then see who might have work or find the operator first and then do the required?

[spektrum]

My stance of not working for free or below award probably is to blame for it taking over 2 years to score my first flying job.

And you ended up at Skydive Australia? I seriously wish you only good things from here on out.

[evilducky]

So as a PPL working towards 200 hours and CPL, looking at this as a job that seems, from a flying perspective, to be fun, with no intention of going onwards to airlines or the like - recommended or not?

I'd heard the per load figures; I wasn't even aware that there were full-time positions.

I've pondered the JPA, JPA/Turbine through the AJPA but does it make sense to do those cold and then see who might have work or find the operator first and then do the required?

AJPA is Skydive Australia. It’s effectively used as a pay for your job interview and initial training, then if we like you we’ll put you on as a contractor and you thank us for the privilege.

[PubliusNaso]

you thank us for the privilege.

Well it's always nice to be polite I guess?

[megan]

It's interesting how times change. Back in my day, early '60's, jumping was very much a club thing, close knit. Originally we started off with using a C180 from a charter company (Silver City Air Taxis) with the aviating done by the charter company's pilot (Brian Stokel), getting paid whatever his wage happened to be. If he were away on another job it meant no jumping that weekend, as it was the only aircraft in town. Subsequently we had C172 that was available, but no pilot, so I received approval from DCA, as it was then, to do the flying on a PPL. The very best of days.

[Bend alot]

So it works a bit differently if you have a company. I do. Let's call it AB Pty Ltd.

Aussie Bob, as a representative and director of AB Pty Ltd offers the services of a pilot to Joe Jumpalot skydivers for $90.00 per flying hour. Joe agrees.
Joe gets invoiced by AB Pty Ltd for 10 hours piloting in the first weekend, $900.00
Joe pays the invoice to AB Pty Ltd
Aussie Bob decides to work for next to nothing and takes out of AB Pty Ltd as a wage, $200 per week. This is below the tax threshold and no super contributions are required.
AB Pty Ltd now has a bit of money in the kitty and can buy some assets. Perhaps a car, or a plane or whatever.
AB Pty Ltd has only one employee who happens to be the director.

On it goes, totally legally. Come tax time Aussie Bob has not earned a taxable income and owes no super. He doesn't give a fig that there is no insurance or super anyway, all is good in his world. He has had fun and put food on the table.

A simplistic way of putting it, but its totally legal and the way of many. What we hope as company directors is that by the time retirement comes around, the company has enough assets or is saleable to fund said retirement.

If the company earns enough then company tax is payable. In some instances it is less costly to pay a dividend to the the director to lessen the company tax bill and this dividend goes on the directors income so is taxable.

After all that I am lost and need an accountant and an accountant to do the company return is a legal requirement for a Pty Ltd company as far as I am aware. I use one.

If the company earns enough then company tax is payable. In some instances it is less costly to pay a dividend to the the director to lessen the company tax bill and this dividend goes on the directors income so is taxable.

The company must pay 27.5% tax on any and every $ of profit.

Buying a car or a plane with company money requires it to be used for company businesses (not personal or pleasure) - The percentage of personal use is a fringe benefit and taxed at 47% (2% higher than the highest personal tax bracket)

Paying a dividend is from money that has already been taxed at 27.5%, when you get this dividend it gets taxed again at your personal tax rate lets say 19% - so each $ of your dividend has actually had 46.5% tax applied.

$900 gross company income.
$200 wages.
$50 operating costs. (accountant, bank, phone ...)
Company Profit $650.

Tax on profit $178.75
Kitty $471.25

Kitty over 1 year $24,505
$20,000 dividend.
Tax on dividend $3,800

Director gets in pocket $16,200 dividend + 52 x $200 $10,400
Or $26,600 from $46,800 (52 x $900)
Excluding any Fringe Benefits taxes due.

Tax on an employee for $46,800 is $6,757
or $40,043 in the pocket from the same $46,800.

Or better off by $13,443 than a Pty Ltd trying to play a game.

Owning a Pty Ltd than can genuinely accrue assets for more than two years can get profitable and be very legal due to current tax laws, but essentially labouring per hour will not bring big benefits.

[billyboy3]

God, tax implications of being a meat bomber! Timing's a bit ironic in this discussion about money, Dave Duncan was a well known jump pilot back in the day, his murder was all over a few pieces of silver in a garnishee order.

edit: no urls for moi. "body in barrel killer to be deported" might bring up some hits.