Handley Page Heyford accident?

[Argonautical]

Came across this photo of a HP Heyford which appears to show an unfortunate accident. Anyone know what happened? Did he fall from the aircraft?

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x345/handley_page_hereford_2e20b8685288b4f216e2c5285aba5624216674 69.jpg

[Asturias56]

It's not a Hereford - it's a HP38/50 Heyford....


original image is at https://www.pinterest.ie/comrademojo/aircraft/ but I'm not in PINTEREST so can't drill down any further..............

[Asturias56]

I came across this - not the incident above but the RAF was not a safe place in the early 1930's...........

RAFCommands Forums (http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?13889-January-1931-RAF-Accident-List-Can-you-add-any-more-info&styleid=3)

[Argonautical]

It's not a Hereford - it's a HP38/50 Heyford....


original image is at https://www.pinterest.ie/comrademojo/aircraft/ but I'm not in PINTEREST so can't drill down any further..............
No information about it.

[Asturias56]

Is it staged? the only info is that rather odd hose running from the back of the u/c cover to near the "casualty"

There are no visible steps around and the engines don't seem to be running and two of the guys don't seem to be rushing to bend down to check outthe casualty.

And that picture is crystal clear and sharp and beautifully composed. Either the camera man was photographing a line of Heyfords and an accident happened right in front of him or it was staged. I'd expect a lot less precision in the case of an accident................................

[Argonautical]

I wonder if it is a still frame from a film, which could explain the photographer being there just at the right time and the following frames would show the other people rushing over to him.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Is it staged? the only info is that rather odd hose running from the back of the u/c cover to near the "casualty"

There are no visible steps around and the engines don't seem to be running and two of the guys don't seem to be rushing to bend down to check outthe casualty.

And that picture is crystal clear and sharp and beautifully composed. Either the camera man was photographing a line of Heyfords and an accident happened right in front of him or it was staged. I'd expect a lot less precision in the case of an accident................................
Well the photograph might have been taken by the eminent aeronautical photographer Charles Brown. The aircraft in question is from 10 Squadron based at Boscombe Down. In September 1935 'B' Flight from 10 Squadron detached to RAF Catfoss, East Yorkshire to be reformed as 97 Squadron. These two images by Charles Brown of a 10 Squadron Heyford were taken near Catfoss.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Having a few problems with my finger......

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/gettyimages_159137155_2048x2048_ea4d686599227d6c2fc9b30253e3 6d4c4ea5b2cf.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1493/gettyimages_159137237_2048x2048_8a030c8f05f57fd91db5b9413295 4d66bad0cb6b.jpg

[sablatnic]

Came across this photo of a HP Heyford which appears to show an unfortunate accident. Anyone know what happened? Did he fall from the aircraft?

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x345/handley_page_hereford_2e20b8685288b4f216e2c5285aba5624216674 69.jpg
He isn't just messing with an underground fuel system?
But too many people are watching him looking more or less startled.

[Herod]

sablatnic could be right. He seems more to be feeling down a hole in the ground rather than having fallen. Did they have underground refueling systems that far back, or is he defueling into a sump of some kind?

[dduxbury310]

What a very strange looking beastie was the aesthetically unappealing Heyford! I am guessing that this was the predominant RAF night bomber at this time (1935), replacing the last Vickers Virginias in the Home RAF, when that force was made up almost entirely of biplanes. Its unusual configuration was practical in some ways, but it must also have been an on-going physical challenge to the people having to service them, as well as the aircrew members attempting to reach their "work stations"!
David D

[Fournierf5]

What a very strange looking beastie was the aesthetically unappealing Heyford! I am guessing that this was the predominant RAF night bomber at this time (1935), replacing the last Vickers Virginias in the Home RAF, when that force was made up almost entirely of biplanes. Its unusual configuration was practical in some ways, but it must also have been an on-going physical challenge to the people having to service them, as well as the aircrew members attempting to reach their "work stations"!
David D

. . . stuff the aesthetics . . . can't someone build a replica? Taxiable at least!!

[rolling20]

I came across this - not the incident above but the RAF was not a safe place in the early 1930's...........

RAFCommands Forums (http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?13889-January-1931-RAF-Accident-List-Can-you-add-any-more-info&styleid=3)
I seem to remember reading somewhere that it wasn't a safe place for about 6 years, roundabout the autumn of 1939.

[meleagertoo]

Damn! Why are there none of these amazing dinosaurs left?

[Asturias56]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that it wasn't a safe place for about 6 years, roundabout the autumn of 1939.


yes but most (not all) of that was enemy action - the 1931 stats were all self inflicted.................... :uhoh:

[Asturias56]

Looks like the casualty is on his back but it's hard to tell

The RAF Catfoss Facebook page has a picture of the Roll of Honour which is hard to decipher but it looks as if its all WW2 casualties

found another picture



https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/432x294/catfoss_roll_of_honour_f86e96e5d857c46991491571edfe612fefc58 c67.jpg


ASN Wikibase Occurrence # 207067
Last updated: 29 November 2019
This information is added by users of ASN. Neither ASN nor the Flight Safety Foundation are responsible for the completeness or correctness of this information. If you feel this information is incomplete or incorrect, you can submit corrected information (https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/web_db_edit.php?id=207067).




Date: 22-JUL-1937 Time: night Type: Handley Page Heyford Mk III Owner/operator: 166 Squadron Royal Air Force (166 Sqn RAF) Registration: K6875 C/n / msn:
Fatalities: Fatalities: 6 / Occupants: 6 Other fatalities: 0 Aircraft damage: Written off (damaged beyond repair) Location: Broadlee Bank Tor, near Edale, Derbyshire - https://aviation-safety.net/database/country/flags_15/G.gif United Kingdom (https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/dblist.php?Country=G) Phase: En route Nature: Military Departure airport: RAF Leconfield, East Yorkshire Destination airport:
Narrative:
Handley Page Heyford Mk.III K6875, 1666 Sqaudron, RAF: Written off (destroyed) 22/7/37 when crashed at Broadlee Bank Tor, near Edale, Derbyshire. Accoarding to the official Air Ministry announcement in "Flight" magazine (July 29, 1937 page 125 - see link #8):

"FLYING ACCIDENTS
As the result of an accident which occurred at Chapel-en-le-Frith on July 22, to an aircraft of No. 166 (Bomber) Squadron, Leconfield, Beverley, Yorkshire, the undermentioned personnel lost their lives:— Sgt. Newton William Baker, Sgt. James William Barker, Sgt. Charles Patrick Dugald McMillan, A/C.1 Eric James McDonald, A/C.1 William Henry Gray, A/C. 2 Ernest John Musker. Sgts. Baker and McMillan were the first and second pilots of the aircraft".

On the 22/7/37 the 6 man crew of Heyford K6875 were briefed to carry out a night cross country exercise from RAF Leconfield in East Yorkshire, the weather that night was poor, with low visibility. The crew became lost in the cloud were seen to fire flares to illuminate the ground beneath to hopefully see a feature they could recognise, this proved fruitless as the aircraft flew up the Vale of Edale striking Broadlee Bank Tor just below the summit.

The aircraft burst into flames on impact killing all 6 of the crew and destroying the aircraft. It has been stated that the aircraft was some 13 miles off course meaning the aircraft should have been either over Sheffield, Stockport or to the south of Huddersfield or Buxton.

All six crew killed:
Sgt Newton William Baker (aged 35)
Sgt James William Barker (aged 26)
Sgt Charles Patrick Dugald McMillan (aged 26)
AC1 Eric James McDonald (aged 22)
AC1 William Henry Gray (aged 20)
AC2 Ernest John Musker (aged 20)

In 1975, Officer Cadets from RAF Henlow recovered, as a training exercise, some remains of Heyford III K6875: a pair of main wheels, two blades of a propeller and tailplane parts, recovered from its crash site in the Peak District. These were passed to the RAF Museum, and are held in its reserve collection, being the large pieces of Heyford airframe components still in existence.
Sources:
1. Royal Air Force Aircraft K1000-K9999 (James J. Halley, Air Britain, 1976 page 55)
2. http://www.rcawsey.co.uk/Acc1937.htm
3. https://www.peakdistrictaircrashes.co.uk/crash_sites/peak-district/handley-page-heyford-k6875-broadlee-bank-tor/
4. https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/archive-exhibitions/not-quite-extinct/handley-page-heyford/what-do-we-have.aspx
5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Heyford#Survivors
6. https://www.scribd.com/document/24172404/LAST-FLIGHT-OF-THE-HEYFORD-K6875
7. http://aircrashsites.co.uk/pre-war-crash-sites-2/077x/
8. https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1937/1937%20-%202129.html

[Argonautical]

sablatnic has nailed it, I think. The guy has probably swore or something like that so the other people are looking at him.

[VX275]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1875x1281/lw4_4df9ca50b02e7c5397f0e4ba8b072a2544e00e23.jpg
At least one survived into 1940 to be used as the tug for the prototype GAl Hotspur.

[old,not bold]

My father's last flight in a Heyford was on March 3rd 1939; he flew with F/O Robertson from Mildenhall (149 (B) Sqn) to St Athan, and back again on the same day with F/O Fulton. He had converted on to the Heyford in January 1938 after completing his Advanced Training at No 2 FTS. I have a picture somewhere of his Heyford at Mildenhall after a solo flight (maybe this first in that aircraft), fuselage and tail pointing skywards, nose section flat on the ground, the empty seat sliced in two by a propeller. I suspect he braked too hard, but it's only a guess.

He then went on to intensive training on Wellingtons, still with 149(B) Sqn, culminating in the Brunsbuttel raid on September 4th.

I always thought the Heyford had a crew of 2, Ist and 2nd pilots, sitting up there in the open cockpit. Was it really 6, as per the post above? What did they all do? Where did they sit?

[oxenos]

At a guess, 2 pilots, nav, wireless and 2 gunners.

[Fareastdriver]

Post #8 shows you where one of the gunners was.

[old,not bold]

It does, doesn't it; and #9 clearly shows a nose-gunner position. Or might it have been a bomb-aimer's place? I guess the little window might have been where the Nav. and/or the Wop sat.

[Herod]

Would there have been two pilots in that era? Considering that the Lancaster was, at least at the beginning, single-pilot, I find it unlikely. Two extracts from Wiki:

It had a crew of four, consisting of a pilot, a bomb aimer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_(air_force))/navigator/gunner, a radio operator and a dorsal/ventral gunner. Crew: four (pilot, co-pilot/navigator, bomb aimer/air gunner, wireless operator/air gunner.

I doubt it had dual controls. More likely the nav had some rudimentary training to enable him to land it, if he could get the pilot out of the seat.

[Fareastdriver]

Just throw him over the side.

[Fonsini]

Single pilot with a passageway for the bomb aimer/navigator/gunner position. Personally I would have given a DFC to any pilot who flew one at night with an open cockpit and those rudimentary instruments.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/426x600/bcc34434_50d9_4d6a_a248_e631a117a9f6_843889f7a4bacaf1ac48373 84b670bb122c43ac9.jpeg

[dduxbury310]

That seems like a hell of a long tow rope connecting Heyford and Hotspur (would not have recognized the glider, but fortunately I had purchased the Frog kit of this all-but-forgotten aircraft when I was about ten/twelve for some reason!) And looks as though the glider pilot is trying pilot to kill off the Heyford crew too (or is it just the weight of that cable which is causing the poor old Heyford to rear up like that?) Anyway, a remarkable photograph, I have never seen that one before, nor did I know that Heyfords had been required to do hard work like this! Also I am in general agreement that the "man on the ground" is struggling to hook up something underground as already suggested, the stance of the body just looks right for a man attempting such a task to me.
David D

[Asturias56]

Heyfords trialled enclosed cockpits, various types of gun turret, in flight refueling , catapult assisted take-off (!!), took part in the early radar trials, radio trials and glider towing

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x595/large_000000_4fb4a70700e216a928203622b10a577f371e34f1.jpg
Aldergrove - November 1939.

Photo credit Imperial War Museum (HU110312)

[Herod]

As a friend of mine once said, as we were sitting in the cockpit of a Ju52; "What a way to go to war"

[VX275]

looks as though the glider pilot is trying pilot to kill off the Heyford crew too (or is it just the weight of that cable which is causing the poor old Heyford to rear up like that?)
David D

The Hotspur has the original long span wings, original bubble canopy and has jettisoned its undercarriage, so its as slippery as it ever could be. That sag in the tow shows its flying faster than the Heyford, and the maximum speed of the Hotspur was only 150 mph (which was a problem when they later tried Spitfires as tugs). The snatch when (if) the tow ever went taught again would have been interesting - for both pilots.

[FlightlessParrot]

That seems like a hell of a long tow rope connecting Heyford and Hotspur SNIP And looks as though the glider pilot is trying pilot to kill off the Heyford crew too.
David D

I think with that much slack in the cable, the glider would be entirely without effect on the tug. Though all parties would have to be very careful about taking up slack.

[nvubu]

Every time I look at the image in #8 - I think the aircraft is upside down :)

[Icare9]

Glider manufacturers having a better understanding of aerodynamics than powered aircraft manufacturers? After all you couldn't really make the Heyford LESS aerodynamic!

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5IDu6GcJZw

[old,not bold]

Thank you for posting that! I have convinced myself that my Dad was probably flying one of them; he was based at Mildenhall with 149(B) Sqn. But the date in the caption is wrong; I don't know when the Heyford was introduced, but (as per post above) his last flight in one was on March 3rd 1939. In February he flew both Heyfords and Wellingtons (as P/UT). From March 4th onwards he flew Wellingtons as P1. It must have been a welcome change from the Heyford............

[Asturias56]

Wiki:- The Heyford I entered service with No. 99 Squadron RAF (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._99_Squadron_RAF), at RAF Upper Heyford (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Upper_Heyford) in November 1933, and later with No. 10 Squadron and 7 Squadron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._7_Squadron_RAF), re-equipping with the Heyford IA and II in August 1934 and April 1935 respectively. As part of the RAF's expansion scheme, orders were placed for 70 Heyford IIIs in 1936, with steam condenser-cooled Rolls-Royce Kestrel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Kestrel) VI engines. The delivery of these aircraft allowed the RAF to have nine operational Heyford Squadrons by the end of 1936.

These squadrons of Heyfords formed the major part of Bomber Command (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Bomber_Command)'s night bomber strength in the late 1930s. Heyfords flew many long night exercises, sometimes flying mock attacks against targets in France. Disaster struck on one of these long-range exercises on 12 December 1936, when a flight of seven Heyfords of No. 102 Squadron RAF (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._102_Squadron_RAF), flying from Northern Ireland, encountered fog and icy weather conditions as they approached their base at RAF Finningley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Finningley), Yorkshire. Four crashed and two had to make forced landings resulting in three crewmen killed and three injured.

The Heyford started to be replaced in 1937, with the arrival in service of Armstrong Whitworth Whitleys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrong_Whitworth_Whitley) and Vickers Wellesleys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellesley), finally being retired from frontline service in 1939. Some remained flying until 1940 as bombing and gunnery trainers, being declared obsolete in July 1939,[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Heyford#cite_note-donald-13) with two used as glider tugs until April 1941.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Heyford#cite_note-Thetford_AeroII_p65-1) At least two examples found experimental use; one for airborne radar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar) and the other for inflight refuelling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflight_refuelling), and it is reported that one was still stored as late as 1944.

[Wind Sock]

How did the Heyford get its name?

I know aircraft manufacturers liked 'alliteration' when naming aircraft types. Thus Handley Page had the Hampden, Hyderabad, Halifax, Hastings, Hinaidi etc ( all beginning with an aitch)

But what was the relevance of the name Heyford? Was it named after the RAF station in Oxfordshire which was technically UPPER Heyford?
Or was there some other relevance in the name?

[megan]

How did the Heyford get its nameNo idea really, but may it be tied into the fact first deliveries were made to No. 99 Squadron RAF, at RAF Upper Heyford (serious). Or perhaps it was because the tea lady came from there (not serious - but then again).

[Wind Sock]

No idea really, but may it be tied into the fact first deliveries were made to No. 99 Squadron RAF, at RAF Upper Heyford

Seems the most likely explanation I suppose.
Actually since I asked that question I've just realised that another of those Handley Page aircraft I mentioned in a list ( # post 37 above ) was also probably also named after a specific RAF station rather than after a town or a city.
Hinaidi !!
Hinaidi was an RAF station in Iraq in the 1930's.

Are there any other examples of aircraft types that had a name dedicated to a specific RAF station?

[DaveReidUK]

Are there any other examples of aircraft types that had a name dedicated to a specific RAF station?

Presumably the HP Hendon was.