Do you mention amateur flying on your professional cv?

[double_barrel]

Ok, here's a strange one.

If you were to apply for a leadership position in an 'applied academic/research' setting, would you refer to your flying qualifications/experience in an 'outside interests' section?!!

I see a lot of cv's, and people seem to put very dreary things in there - reading books and listening to music seems to be a common one! I personally would be impressed, as I guess most people here would, because it shows some diversity of interest and ability to stick at a task. But I wonder how 'normal' people, who have no idea what is involved in flying would react to such a statement? Maybe they would think I was a rich waster, or wonder why I am adding irrelevant stuff to an application for a serious position?

What do you reckon? Do any of you do this? If it matters, I am a Brit and preparing an application to a US organization and it is likely to be reviewed by American Academic 'suits'.

[OpenCirrus619]

Personally I would say yes ... anything that shows:

Ability to focus / learn new skills
Dedication
...

Personally I include, as hobbies:

Sailing (Royal Yachting Association Yachtmaster Offshore)
Flying (Commercial Pilots Licence, Flying Instructor, Gliding Silver 'C')
Diving (PADI Rescue Diver)

All of which show focus over several years.

OC619

P.S. For you CV don't trust spell checker to catch everything ... "recon" :uhoh:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Yes - I just tailor what and how I say it to the role.

G

[Jan Olieslagers]

I have a minimal mention: "Leisure: travelling by plane and campervan, playing music". It is rarely entered upon during interviews, the one time my leisure activities were discussed it was when the interviewer had an interest common with mine (at that time), editing OpenStreetMap.

P.S. I heartily second OC619's PS. At least over here, spelling is rather important to first line recruiters, it is an easy sieve for them.

[MaxR]

I would suggest that concentrating on things like not using an apostrophe in "cv's" or littering your sentences with exclamation marks may be more likely to create the right impression.

[double_barrel]

I would suggest that concentrating on things like not using an apostrophe in "cv's" or littering your sentences with exclamation marks may be more likely to create the right impression.

Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????

Thanks for your wise advice, but I suspect there is a difference between a post made from a phone via a web browser and a formal document !!!!!!!!

[MaxR]

You're welcome.

[Pilot DAR]

I agree with both themes which have found their way into the replies. Yes, a brief mention of an unrelated skill or licensing achievement can add to the favourable impression the reader takes from your CV. The reference to flying on a CV should be brief, and not self aggrandizing, but enough that if the reader also happened to be a pilot, you now have something more in common.

And, I agree that unless the intent of a written passage is to deliberately convey a casual or humorous approach, its format, grammar and punctuation should be the best you can do. I consider a person's attention to detail in everything that they do. If they write with care, they will fly my plane with care, and apply care to the other things I might ask of them. If they're casual, the care I expect has not been demonstrated yet. Why pass up the opportunity to make the best first impression? I vigorously avoid "LOLs" and other abbreviations in my writing, and thy to either write out acronyms first, or use only those which I'm certain that the audience will understand.

[ChickenHouse]

In academia I reckon it does not matter at all, maybe hurt to mention it. In industry and getting applications for leadership roles I welcome skills showing a certain basic knowledge on decision making, as a private pilot license.

[clareprop]

If you're a proper PPL, you should be able to mention it once on the CV, three times at the interview, daily (should you get the job), and as often as possible at all other times.

[ShyTorque]

Best not to mention it. But talking about the piano playing gigs in the brothel is OK.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Yes - I just tailor what and how I say it to the role.

G

Me too. I once applied for a job in the ship building industry. I provided a brief summary of my flying in the "other skills" section of my CV. The interviewer was a keen PPL and most of the interview ended up talking about flying :cool:. I was offered the job but for a variety of reasons declined

[Sir Niall Dementia]

If you're a proper PPL, you should be able to mention it once on the CV, three times at the interview, daily (should you get the job), and as often as possible at all other times.

:D:D:D:D Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x510/ppl_kit_71ebe1454e62c782317cbe0262efb8ef1270a367.jpg

SND

[Jan Olieslagers]

And what to do if one is an improper PPL?

[Pilot DAR]

And what to do if one is an improper PPL

Explain why to the CAA/EASA/whoever...

[pilotmike]

P.S. For you CV don't trust spell checker to catch everything ... "recon" :uhoh:
Your should always check you own work before your offer you advice to others!

[double_barrel]

:D:D:D:D Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x510/ppl_kit_71ebe1454e62c782317cbe0262efb8ef1270a367.jpg

SND

Well.......I have to confess..........I was pax on a caravan the other day........it may have slipped out.....or the headset immediately plugged into the comms system may have given it away......:O

OTOH, no-one I work with knows about my secret flying activities.

[neilmac]

Wear your PPL wings to interview 😁

[double_barrel]

Wear your PPL wings to interview 😁

Or these?

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x267/halcyon_mark_9_vintage_brown_f010984e315dfb7b4bc5e7dee0a5a49 7a5314892.jpg


But seriously, if I were to see a cv with a PPL (or indeed a YM offshore), I would know the candidate has some commitment and some ideas beyond their work and they would go up in my estimation. But I am not the target for my cv, and it is unlikely that anyone here is either. So I wondered if the 'what a w*****r' reactions would outweigh the 'he must be a decent chap' responses. I want the job and need all the help I can get!

[tmmorris]

We seem to have strayed into 'how do you know there’s a pilot at your party?' territory...

I think a PPL is similar to, say, putting grade 8 piano on a CV - it does prove sustained effort over a long period. The only reason I’d omit it would be if I knew the interviewer would have a problem with it; e.g. they were a known Eco-warrior.

[gantshill]

I think there are a whole bunch of other skills that are relevant and that flying can demonstrate - multi-tasking, working under pressure, being a good communicator, and many others. I would (and do) include it and explain briefly the skills it brings relevant to the job on offer... I personally think that to omit this would be selling yourself short!

[clareprop]

multi-tasking, working under pressure, being a good communicator,
What, like working in McDonald's?

So I wondered if the 'what a w*****r' reactions would outweigh the 'he must be a decent chap'
Thinking that others would believe the latter because of a PPL, tends to answer the former.

[gasax]

When I read a cv, it is because we are looking for appropriate skills and experience, not chaps or chapesses to have a chat and a drink with. Yachtmasters, ppls etc are a double edged sword. Yes, they suggest other skills to people 'in the know' - but equally they show a significant effort outwith professional development. (ask me how I know!).

Anything more than a single line mention would entirely confirm those fears about focus. As would poor spelling, mindless punctuation and text talk.

Hence the middle part of this thread and many the crashing bores, who will regal anyone daft enough to listen, about the high skill levels necessary to keep a C150 in the air

[Jim59]

I put upwardly mobile on my CV...

[FREDAcheck]

A quick mention in a list of leisure activities may be good (provided it's not the only leisure activity), but don't put it on tinder/grindr.

"How do you know when you're half way through your first date with a pilot? He says 'Enough about me, let's talk about flying'"
"Never ask your date if he's a pilot. If he is, he'll soon tell you."

[Whopity]

I once applied for a job with DERA, I was asked at the interview if my flying activities were likely to take priority over the job. Fortunately they did and I found a better job.

[shiningstarofcheso]

Definitely include - It’s useful and mostly effective as a conversation point in seriously executed interviews, which helps immensely when building a rapport with the interviewer and gets you their attention.

In more junior roles it might be useful where industry experience examples are lacking as It corroborates certain traits (decision making, working under pressure etc). In experienced roles though I’d never use that as a lead example unless the question was, or you wanted to make clear, it’s how do you demonstrate an attribute or conduct yourself personally outside the work environment.

A good interviewer will look for relevant examples and if it was a choice between candidates, all things equal, they will go with the most relevant evidence. If it was a business context, and the question is how you change your decision making style in emergencies, you’d pick some one who talked about an example in a business context over someone who talked about declaring a mayday. The advantage you have is that if you gave both they’d go with you.

[ppruined]

I would suggest that concentrating on things like not using an apostrophe in "cv's" or littering your sentences with exclamation marks may be more likely to create the right impression.

Actually it is entirely legitimate to use an apostrophe in cv’s. It indicates that the letters itae are omitted. Not to use one would also be ok. It’s a matter of preference.

On the other hand to describe music and books as dreary, and thus to condemn two of the greatest art forms in the history of humanity, is surely unforgivable...

[mikehallam]

But shirly the 'itae' is already a plural and the plural (or for that matter a possessive " 's ") is redundant.

Actually it is entirely legitimate to use an apostrophe in cv’s. It indicates that the letters itae are omitted. Not to use one would also be ok. It’s a matter of preference.

On the other hand to describe music and books as dreary, and thus to condemn two of the greatest art forms in the history of humanity, is surely unforgivable...

[Innominate]

But shirly the 'itae' is already a plural and the plural (or for that matter a possessive " 's ") is redundant.

Don't call me Shirley...

'Curriculum Vitae' is like 'Court Martial' - the second word complements the first, and the first word changes to show the plural. Thus the plurals are Courts Martial and Curricula Vitae.

[ppruined]

Don't call me Shirley...

'Curriculum Vitae' is like 'Court Martial' - the second word complements the first, and the first word changes to show the plural. Thus the plurals are Courts Martial and Curricula Vitae.
Quite. Vitae is not plural but genitive. And with an abbreviation such as CV it is common to add an s to indicate the plural.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Why not use the (probably old-fashioned) "resume" instead of cv? Solves a few issues, and is clear and unequivocal.

[double_barrel]

On the other hand to describe music and books as dreary, and thus to condemn two of the greatest art forms in the history of humanity, is surely unforgivable...

Indeed it would be unforgivable. But of course I did not describe books and music as dreary, I said that 'reading books and listening to music' is a dreary entry on a cv. I see this on many applications, occasionally I ask people what book they are currently reading and am usually met with startled silence. If a cv that said I enjoy the music of Bach, or I have interest in the magical realism genre, that would have sounded meaningful and might have led to an interesting conversation.

I once interviewed someone in Liverpool whose address was Whitworth Street. I asked them if they knew who Whitworth was and they had no idea. I made a brief attempt to engage them about the importance of a standard thread in enabling the industrial revolution. They showed not a flicker of interest or understanding and, after being rejected, complained to HR about being asked irrelevant questions. I always think that I dodged a bullet by not employing that person, in part because of their lack of awareness of their city's industrial history.

[Chuck Glider]

Why not use the (probably old-fashioned) "resume" instead of cv? Solves a few issues, and is clear and unequivocal.
As long as you use resumé, or even résumé, either of which I prefer to CV.

[OpenCirrus619]

Resumé vs CV - I think this sums it up: cv-vs-resume-difference-and-when-use-which (https://theundercoverrecruiter.com/cv-vs-resume-difference-and-when-use-which/)

OC619

[Jan Olieslagers]

Hehe, that is quite an eye-opener, OC619 - thank you!

[cats_five]

Resumé vs CV - I think this sums it up: cv-vs-resume-difference-and-when-use-which (https://theundercoverrecruiter.com/cv-vs-resume-difference-and-when-use-which/)

OC619

I had to tweak my CV for every job I applied for. Until I took my degree off I didn't get any interviews, though since the job I eventually got required a degree I put it back for that.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Well, this is getting us far from aviation, mods are welcome to prune (haha) as they see fit. With that reserve, regarding I had to tweak my CV for every job I applied for.

A free-lance IT'er, I have been contacted by agencies who wanted to present me to their customers, but required me to tweak my cv/résumé to fit expectations. I have always refused that, saying that it was their client, not mine; and if they wanted to tweak my profile they were welcome, though I'd have to approve whatever they sent out. None seemed to like that, indeed some seemed to not understand. This was especially the case with UK agencies, who were and are quite active on the BE market (and LUX, too); in fact I have worked with quite a number of UK expat IT'ers in Brussels. Nice chaps, generally, and not stupid; but not above average ability either. I often wondered how their marketing got them landed in Brussels in such large numbers, and at quite handsome daily rates too. Brexit now sends them reeling off in all directions, I know of several who requested belgian citizenship recently; a few went the french way.

[Genghis the Engineer]

WIth the modern tendency to do everything with online forms, there's a running joke particularly in academia that the reason it's called a CV is that once you have it populated, it's then a regular process of...

CTRL-C
CTRL-V.

Much truth in jest sometimes.

G

[Recc]

Ok, here's a strange one.
If you were to apply for a leadership position in an 'applied academic/research' setting, would you refer to your flying qualifications/experience in an 'outside interests' section?!!
What do you reckon? Do any of you do this? If it matters, I am a Brit and preparing an application to a US organization and it is likely to be reviewed by American Academic 'suits'.


Do you know what sort of CV are they looking for? I've never seen an academic CV that had 'outside interests' and I don't think it would leave a good impression if it did. For an academic CV keep it to the standard template: education and employment history, skills/ research interests, grants, publications and key talks.

I moved from academia to industry recently but used an academic CV as they were obviously looking for a scientist and it (perhaps) looked a bit more credible. If you wanted something more corporate, then I imagine that there is more freedom to play around with it. Either way, I'd keep outside interests very low-key in any CV but I would think that flying qualifications could demonstrate professionally relevant skills to a much greater degree than some things that people put down.

[double_barrel]

Resumé vs CV - I think this sums it up: cv-vs-resume-difference-and-when-use-which (https://theundercoverrecruiter.com/cv-vs-resume-difference-and-when-use-which/)

OC619

Interesting. In my world we tend to use a cv supported by a fairly detailed covering letter. That link suggests my idea of cover letter is actually very similar to a résumé. So we typically provide both. Personally, when recruiting, I rely heavily on the cover letter/résumé as the format gives the freedom to enthuse about future ideas, opportunities and vision rather than just recounting history.

[MaxR]

Actually it is entirely legitimate to use an apostrophe in cv’s. It indicates that the letters itae are omitted. Not to use one would also be ok. It’s a matter of preference.

I'm not sure I agree with that as, surely, if that was the reason for using the apostrophe (and I'll wager it wasn't) then you'd also have a missing urriculum to locate somewhere or flag up with a second apostrophe.