Late night/early morning rotations? (KL/LH)

[aerobus123]

I see that some airlines, KL and LH in particular perhaps, fly out to smaller airports in the UK, Norway and Sweden in particular (e.g. Durham and Norwich in the UK, Alesund and Kristiansand in Norway, Linkoping and Vaxjo in Sweden) arriving late at night, before the A/C flies back to AMS/FRA very early (like 6 AM) the next morning.

Does it ever happen that the outbound night flight and morning inbound flight is staffed by the same crew? Or how does the rotation work?

To most of these airports, it's two or three daily rotations - with outbound flights at around 8 AM, around the afternoon, and late at night, with inbound flights very early (6 AM), late morning (around 10 AM) and early evening.

I can imagine the crew of the late night outbound flight will work not the early morning flight, but one of the day flights - with the crew of one of those flights working the early morning one?

Am I right?

EDIT: To provide another (perhaps more extreme) example: OS operates a single flight VIE-OSL daily, with VIE-OSL arriving late at night, and OSL-VIE departing very early the next morning. This way it must certainly be the same crew operating both flights? If not, how does the crew operating the morning flight back get to OSL? And the shift in question would be, with departure from VIE at 20:50, landing at OSL at 23:15, departure from OSL again at 06:20 with landing at VIE at 08:50, WAY too long and with clearly insufficient sleep to operate safely and in accordance with regulations. I would be very suprised if they allow pilots to work such long flights with so little sleep in between.

[T21]

I see that some airlines, KL and LH in particular perhaps, fly out to smaller airports in the UK, Norway and Sweden in particular (e.g. Durham and Norwich in the UK, Alesund and Kristiansand in Norway, Linkoping and Vaxjo in Sweden) arriving late at night, before the A/C flies back to AMS/FRA very early (like 6 AM) the next morning.

Does it ever happen that the outbound night flight and morning inbound flight is staffed by the same crew? Or how does the rotation work?

To most of these airports, it's two or three daily rotations - with outbound flights at around 8 AM, around the afternoon, and late at night, with inbound flights very early (6 AM), late morning (around 10 AM) and early evening.

I can imagine the crew of the late night outbound flight will work not the early morning flight, but one of the day flights - with the crew of one of those flights working the early morning one?

Am I right?

EDIT: To provide another (perhaps more extreme) example: OS operates a single flight VIE-OSL daily, with VIE-OSL arriving late at night, and OSL-VIE departing very early the next morning. This way it must certainly be the same crew operating both flights? If not, how does the crew operating the morning flight back get to OSL? And the shift in question would be, with departure from VIE at 20:50, landing at OSL at 23:15, departure from OSL again at 06:20 with landing at VIE at 08:50, WAY too long and with clearly insufficient sleep to operate safely and in accordance with regulations. I would be very suprised if they allow pilots to work such long flights with so little sleep in between.
I used to do something similar many years ago. Paris to Glasgow. We were given hotel rooms and it was valid if called a split duty. I enjoyed doing them as I was back at CDG in time for their hotel breakfast followed by the rest of the day in the city.

[the_stranger]

At KLM the crew who fly the last flight in, usually start the next duty later in the day, i.e. around noon.
The crew who does the first, early flight out, arrived around noon.

They do this 4 or 5 days in a row, so any reduced rest or split duty would be impossible under European rules or the CLA.

[bringbackthe80s]

Almost everybody in europe fly with minimum rest, meaning get to the hotel early afternoon, leave the hotel next morning around 5. repeat. For 4/5 days in a row.

[aerobus123]

Almost everybody in europe fly with minimum rest, meaning get to the hotel early afternoon, leave the hotel next morning around 5. repeat. For 4/5 days in a row.

OK. But how on earth does OS manage the VIE-OSL rotation when there’s only one flight a day?

[Craftydutchman]

Is this really the usual roster of a pilot?

Late night/early mornings all the time?? :ooh:

[Intrance]

OK. But how on earth does OS manage the VIE-OSL rotation when there’s only one flight a day?
Look up split duty under EASA FTL.

[wiggy]

OK. But how on earth does OS manage the VIE-OSL rotation when there’s only one flight a day?.

As others have said look up EASA “split duty”..

in essence it’s a single work period starting with report at base, sector, rest period (which under EASA has to be I think at least 3 hours), then sector back to base. The rest period allows an extension to the normal allowable duty day.

It’s not just a tactic used in shorthaul, I’ve seen in used downroute for Longhaul “shuttle” sectors from one outstation to another to allow an extended “day out”, though that useage is perhaps not as common as it used to be.

[Banana Joe]

It's pretty much normal in short haul cargo ops. We usually fly 2 sectors in the early morning, rest at a hotel during the day and in the evening we do 2 sectors. I think I even had 5 sectors in one day like this.
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[bringbackthe80s]

Is this really the usual roster of a pilot?

Late night/early mornings all the time?? :ooh:

passengers short haul in Europe yes

[Craftydutchman]

Sounds like the sleep patterns of a partying college student.....for your entire life

[simmple]

Sounds like the sleep patterns of a partying college student.....for your entire life


it is but without the fun bit

[bringbackthe80s]

A bloody nightmare😂