CPL / IR / ATPL Question

[SpeedBird22]

Good evening all,

I've got myself slightly confused about the technical differences between CPL and ATPL.

Basically, is it either/or, with the ATPL going further than the CPL by allowing you to fly airliners? I noticed in another post that someone recommended getting both. Is this really necessary?

Sorry if this sounds confusing - but it is because I am too!! Any thoughts would be really appreciated.

Happy flying,

SB22

[Kiltie]

A CPL alone (you are not that "employable" without an IR as well) will allow you to fly as a First Officer on anything subject to type rating, but only COMMAND an aircraft under 5700kg (for the purposes of Public Transport).

The ATPL lifts this last restriction.

We all start with CPLs anyway, and the ATPL follows in due course once you have bagged 1500 hours, all this is assuming you've sat and passed the ATPL papers.

Don't get any ideas about sitting the CPL only papers, the ATPLs aren't much more taxing and open up much more possibilities with your future career.

Good luck either way.

[rolling circle]

Assuming that we are talking about the situation in the UK/europe, it is not possible to gain an ATPL without having first held a CPL (stand fast ex-military pilots). One of the requirements of a JAA ATPL is a minimum of 1500 hrs flight time including 500 hrs in a multi-crew environment, you can't achieve that without holding a CPL and Instrument Rating and passing the ATPL ground exams.

The route is either PPL (with,possibly an IR) - CPL/IR - ATPL or, if you want to spend the money on integrated training, CPL/IR - ATPL.

[foghorn]

My understanding is that you also have to sit a skills test for your ATPL, but it's done on type in the sim along with your rolled into your recurrent type training.

Anyone agree/correct me?

[Landing Gear]

As from June of this year (I think) the CPL will no longer exist. There will only be as I understand it PPL or ATPL and that's your lot.

Once completing an ATPL course you are issued with a Frozen ATPL until you gain 1500hrs allowing you to do F/O duties only, then it gets "thawed out" after 1500hrs and you can now act as Captain should you be lucky enough.

Apart from other goodies attatched to the ATPL as mentioned above there are age limits which differ from the CPL but anyway, no more CPL soon so it's not even worth thinking about.

Hope this helps, good luck.

[Cron]

So when the CPL goes even if you just want to be an instructor you need ATPL?

------------------
London Tower this is Skyflash...

[GJB]

Cron - not exactly, but to be an instructor you must study for the ATPL writtens and complete the CPL module.

Therefore my understanding is that you will have a CPL with frozen ATPL anyway ??



[This message has been edited by GJB (edited 07 March 2001).]

[Cron]

GJB - thanks. Wow, now I'm really condfused, if the CPL will not exists how can one take the CPL module to become an ins? Help anyone?

------------------
London Tower this is Skyflash...

[UKPPL]

Hi Guys,

Landing Gear - The JAR CPL still exists (it's only just being introduced....) I think you are getting confused with the old CAA CPL which is soon to be discountinued.

Cron - If tyou want to be an instructor you need to have passed the CPL (not necessarily ATPL) exams before you can start your FI course. If you want to earn money you must also take/pass yr CPL flying exams.

GJB - you wrote "to be an instructor you must study for the ATPL writtens and complete the CPL module". The JAR CPL and ATPL theory courses and exams are supposed to be different as far as I know, although there are obviously major overlaps with the sylabus on both.

All the best.

[GJB]

UKPPL:

I was going on info from a JAR approved flight training school - they told me that to study for the JAR CPL, first, you must have passed the JAR ATPL writtens. Furthermore to take the FI course, you must have passed the CPL skills test.

This is what I was told, but I am not claiming to be correct.

Good luck!

[TooHotToFly]

GJB - The information you have been given is incorrect. You don't have to do the ATPL writtens, you can do the CPL writtens instead. Furthermore, you only need to complete an approved CPL course and sit the skill test if you wish to be paid for instructing.

[GJB]

TWO people on my case now - I must have been told a heap of bollocks.

I humbly appologise chaps. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif

[This message has been edited by GJB (edited 07 March 2001).]

[Noggin]

Oh dear what a lot of misinformation! A quick read of JAR-FCL1 would answer most of the questions posed here.

To answer BirdSeeds original question:

A CPL is a basic level professional licence to permit remunerated flying including Instruction. The groundschool requirement is either a 200 hour Modular course, or a 300 hour Integrated course. (The 100 hour difference is a credit for having an ICAO PPL)

To add a IR to either a PPL or a CPL there is an additional 200 hour ground school course.

The ATPL groundschool course is 750 hours reduced to 650 for PPL holders. Considerably more and encompassing all of the above.

As RC said you cannot get an ATPL unless you have held a CPL/IR. The so called Frozen ATPL does not exist, there is nothing to be unfrozen, nothing will magically happen when you get 1500 hours, you will still have a CPL/IR. What it means is that you hold a CPL/IR with ATPL level knowledge. You will still have to apply for, and pay for the issue of an ATPL once you meet all of the issue requirements, including 500 hours of Multi-pilot operation.

The ATPL Skill Test is effectively the Type Rating Skill Test on a Multi-Pilot aeroplane.

[low n' slow]

Hey all, Just so you know, I'm in a CPL course. Quite frankly, me and my course- mates find ourselves quite restricted. As I've found, most airlines will only let holders of ATPL licenses send in their application (correct if I'm wrong...). Don't worry about diffrences (unless your in a CPL course...), if you can choose, go for the ATPL as it will take you farther.