I want to be a pilot: please change my mind!

[Gruntilda]

Good evening,

I apologise if this isn't posted in the appropriate section, please move the post if this is the case.

Title says all! But I'm going to get a bit into details. As I'm enjoying the last evening of my summer break and getting ready to go back to work tomorrow...
I'm in my early thirties, born in Europe and moved to Australia ~4 years ago. I work in finance for an amazing company which is doing very well. It's a small business and we all get along, the job itself is the best I've ever had and being a small business I got to help on everything when needed so there's more variety than your typical large company jobs.
I have been treated and rewarded very well. Money is good. But you know, in the end, it's a job. I feel very fortunate.

The thing is: my true passion is aviation. I do plane spotting very often (2-4 times a month). I still feel the same rush and amazement when I hear the ATC say "cleared for takeoff" and few seconds later the roar of the engines... I just wish I was the one in control of the aircraft. It doesn't help that being a female I am also tempted by the sirens of the "diversity" programs at almost every company.

Now back to reality. Honestly, I've done the maths and between the uncertainty and the guaranteed opportunity cost... I know it's not worth it. There's the risk that the novelty wears off and that between rostering and all the issues I've read about, there's only a tiny chance that I end up in a better position that I am at now (if I even get a job in the first place). And it doesn't look to me that the future will be any better.
I've thought about a PPL but in my opinion it would just be setting a foot through the door and I'd be even more tempted to try and change careers. It's also a decent chunk of money for something that would just be a hobby.

Still, even if I reasonably know that it's not worth it, a part of me just cannot let it go.

I guess what I'm looking for is current/former pilots to "talk me out of it". If you had to start over today in your thirties leaving a good career behind, please tell me why you would not recommend it. Or if you've left your pilot career for another one. It would really help.
I wish there were options to travel on the jump seats... But I suppose I was born 20 years too late for this.

Cheers!

[FlightDetent]

As long as you have a career you could return to in case you get cold feet...

If you'd been through enough bad times in life so that you'll be ever aware of the upsides of the piloting job...

The worst case you have a taste and see it was not meant to be your destiny afterall, but gain serenity at heart...

You might be a lost cause, 😉

[AerocatS2A]

The lady who taught me to fly switched from nursing to flying at the age of thirty or so. Ended up instructing, then airline pilot, and now enjoys her life flying a business jet around the world. Does that help talk you out of it?

[Stan Woolley]

If you really want to, nothing will change your mind.

[swh]

First of all, get yourself a CPL initial medical. If that all goes well,, buy yourself a common trainer like a IFR C172. Find a school you feel fits you and pay for the instructors to teach you in your own aircraft. Get your PPL, do your night rating, do your instrument rating. Do some trips away over weekends and holidays touring around. You will end up over two years or so having the experience and exams for a CPL.

You should enjoy your day job better as you will look forward to the flying, you should also enjoy the flying as you don’t have the stress of funding.

You may have a ball, you might not. You will get to see the industry and Australia from a different perspective. You might also hate it as the career brochure you see now may not reflect the reality you experience. Flying is no different from your current industry, a lot of people who start off and get qualified do not end up working in industry.

[OvertHawk]

There are a lot of factors here.

I love aviation, I've been in it since i was 16 and have been a pilot for 20 plus years.

I don't really enjoy my job anymore (and mine is so much better than many)... I still love aviation, but doing it for a living with the increasing administration and politics (and reality) can very quickly blunt that enjoyment.

If you want to be an airline pilot to pursue your love and passion for aviation - then think twice!

Public transport flying is now (probably rightly) a very prescriptive occupation. yes it has many challenges but probably not the ones you're looking for.

If you're imagining golden sunrises, exciting routes and the joy of flight then consider:

Getting up at 04:00; arguing with dispatchers; carrying a five figure debt into the first ten years of your career (at least); having your roster written in pencil and pushed to the limit by software designed to work you to exhaustion; dealing with passengers who are at best indifferent and consider you little more than a bus driver through to at worst aggressive and rude; Getting paid a decidedly average salary for the first decade of your career ( don't forget the debt too!). Getting to "fly" the aeroplane for 5 minutes a sector (if it's your sector)... That's just a few of the issues.

Seriously - I love aviation and i like the money I'm now (after twenty years) getting paid. Would i do it again? - that's an artificial question because no-one has hindsight. I came into it young without a strong career - i had little to lose and much to gain.

If you're asking "should I give up a strong career that I really like, working for a good company in order to start from scratch in aviation?" I would reply - "Are you off your rocker?!?!'

Keep the career stability, get a PPL and go and fly a Tiger Moth at the weekends.

Keep your home life, the potential to have a life outside work that can be predicated beyond 48 hours (and which you will be awake for most of).

It genuinely pains me to write this (and my 26 year old self would be horrified) but you're proposing giving up an awful lot for something which I don't think really exists as you perceive or hope it does.

PM me if you wish to ask more speciifics.

All the best - enjoy your flying!
OH

[felixthecat]

Money is good. But you know, in the end, it's a job. I feel very fortunate.

I started late in life, much as you are thinking of doing. I wasn’t in a well paid career previously though so that is a difference. Now ....many years....later, though I do appreciate my lifestyle and the monetary rewards it brings as a long haul widebody captain, I could also say ‘Money is good. But you know, in the end, it's a job. I feel very fortunate.’

The social side of it and the long nights, with associated jet lag does wear very thin. You are always at the mercy of your next sim check and medical. Whilst I wouldn’t say don’t do it, I would have a long think if it really is what you want. There are many many sacrifices in this career, the biggest being your family. There is a huge difference between getting a buzz out of watching a plane takeoff and land, and sitting over the middle of the ocean at 3am on Christmas Day, birthday, anniversary etc etc.

[goose2111]

I think everyone has made valid points. But I think oh has hit the nail here.
if it's your passion get ppl and cpl and fly around but it you do join commercial flying soon enough you will see the novelty wear thin.
I started young with just the love for flying and without another career to fall back on , ask me now and I wont make the route.
I will leave this below msg that was shared In our pilot group this should give you an idea of the life we lead.

*Typical Day of an Airline Pilot* (Captain).

-Set alarm for 3AM
-Check alarm again to make sure ringer is on
-Make sure you didn't accidentally set to it for PM
-Call hotel lobby to ask for a wake-up call at 3AM
-Pilots believe in redundancy
-Wake up 1.0
-9 minutes later wake up 2.0 (Snooze button is the best)
-Accept your fate that you must get up and get ready
-Crew van pick-up is at 4AM
-Try to remember what city you're in
-Fight the urge to brew coffee in the tiny hotel coffee maker that has a thin layer of dust on it
-Check the weather. Ughhh…it's cold and you left your coat at home .
-Check the airline's phone app to make sure your flight wasn't cancelled or delayed
-Shower. Due to low water pressure, water is trickling out at an agonizingly slow pace
-Brush teeth and hair
-Call front desk for shaving cream as you just ran out as you began to shave
-When hotel representative arrives, open door just enough to receive shaving cream as you're not dressed yet
-Check Iron before ironing your shirt so it doesn't burn it or spew muck onto your shirt
-Put on uniform shirt and pants
-A little more snug than when you were a co-pilot, but still looks good because you have to stay fit as an Officer in the Air Force Reserve
-Socks and shoes on
-Tie on
-Ughhh, forgot to put on deodorant. That could have been bad!
-Take off tie and pull shirt out of your pants
-Apply deodorant, re-tuck shirt, and put tie back on
-Re-check weather, hmmm. It's snowing
-Review company's de-icing procedures
-Try to remember when your next vacation is coming up. Fiji sounds nice
-Gather wallet, ID, pilot hat, passport, etc
-Make sure suitcase and pilot kit bag are packed. It's usually better to pack the night before
-Make sure you have your iPhone, tablet and laptop, and chargers
-Head downstairs for the crew van 10 minutes before pick-up time
-Run into pilots from competitor. Make small talk. How's life at ABC airline?
-Verify with the van driver your Flight number
-Give driver your suitcase and pilot kit bag
-Take a seat and fasten your seat belt
-Van driver worked the overnight shift and just wants to be home, so driving faster than you think he should
-Listen to the Flight Attendants talk about their layover, boyfriends, husbands, kids, etc as you ride to the airport
-Arrive at the airport
-Tip the driver. Co-pilot nudges you to ask for a dollar as he only has a $20 in his wallet
-Driver signals displeasure with your tip by giving you a subtle side-eye
-Next, It's time to go through security
-Get randomly selected for extra screening
-Finally make it through security
-Check the company phone app to figure out which gate the aircraft is parked
-Arrive at the gate. Gate was changed but App wasn't updated. Bummer!
-The need for coffee is Real.
-Too early for breakfast, so stockpile energy bars in my Flight Kit. If not, have to buy a $3 banana at the airport
-Long line at the airport Starbucks, so opt for generic coffee from the Podunk local Grill. :(
-Finally make it to the aircraft
-Flight Attendants aren't very happy as they had a short layover
-Me…Smile and Nod
-Gate agent has a printer jam, so no flight plan yet
-Co-pilot is a millennial, so already sent the flight plan to my Flight iPad :)
-Agent eventually gets the printer working and brings you a hard copy of the flight plan
-Now it's time to verify all the items on the flight plan are correct
-Since it's snowing, you let the co-pilot do the exterior inspection
-Co-pilot gets back to the cockpit covered in snow at which point you hand him/her a cup of coffee
-Now you brief the flight attendants about the flight
-Check the weather again, review the airfield diagram
-Identify where the airport conducts de-icing
-Did I leave my iPhone charger at the hotel? Reach into my bag and whew…it's there
-Boarding is complete and you welcome the passengers onboard over the PA
-Taxi out, get de-iced, Take-off and finally you're at cruise altitude
-You finally remember your co-pilot's name: "Bob"
-So Bob, were you Air Force, Navy or civilian?
-If civilian, ask what airlines he flew with
-If Air Force or Navy, ask if he flew Fighters or Heavies
-If Air Force, play the do you know this guy or that gal from such and such Squadron game
-Eventually you'll have something in common and camaraderie ensues
-Land at destination and repeat last 20 steps 2 or 3 more times that day
-When you land, say farewell to the passengers
-Some say thank you, some are too busy to say anything, some give you fist bumps, some want to take pictures with you
-Sometimes you fly movie stars or sports stars and they're usually incognito
-After the last passenger deplanes, load into the hotel van for another overnight layover
-After a long day, it's great to check-in to the hotel
-Ughhh...get to your room and the key isn't working
-Did I put it next to my phone which demagnetized it
-Back to the lobby for another key. :(
-Try to login to the hotel WIFI. It requires Last name and room number. Last name is pretty easy, but accidentally entered the room number from yesterday's hotel It's Self Critiquing
-Skype with your daughter as it's her birthday and you were too junior to get the day off.
-Tell her to look under her bed and she screams with delight as you left her birthday gift under her bed before you departed on your trip
-Apparently there was a big storm back home and the whole neighborhood doesn't have electricity.
-Big crisis events only seem to happen when I leave for for a trip
-Check out the gym and realize they have one sad looking treadmill, a stationary bike, and some old dumbbells.
-Decide to skip the workout and try to find dinner
-If it's warm, you're in a nice city and have friends or family in town, you can catch up for dinner.
-But today, you're overnighting in Delhi and it's 5 degrees outside, you opt dinner at the hotel
-Finally get to you room, get showered, and in bed
-Just as your head hits the pillow…Knock Knock…House Keeping!
-Ughhh…forgot to put the "Do Not Disturb" Sign out
-Sometimes friends and family find out you were in town and get upset you didn't call. Sometimes, you just wanna get your chill on and rest for the next day.
-I love my friends who ask me what's my route. Just realize, airline pilots don't have a particular route. It's either domestic or international.
-That's mostly it…the glamorous life of an airline pilot

[PoppaJo]

Before starting get the divorce out of the way now.

[Blackfriar]

I agree with some of the above posts. Fly as a hobby Try gliding - real flying, not managing computers - and Australia has great giding conditions and huge amounts of space. Maybe get a job as a part-time ramp agent/dispatcher (weekends?) and get to play with aeroplanes on turn-rounds and stroll around the ramp - although it was more fun when every aeroplane wasn't a 737/320. I got all that aeroplane stuff out of my system with three years despatching in a working museum called Belfast 1980s. Viscount, Vanguard, Herald, F27, F28, DC-9, 737, 747, DC-10, Whistling Wheelbarrow, Bandeirante, Caravelle, CL-44, Belfast (Heavylift) DC-3, 707, 727, HS-748, Heron and even a Bristol Freighter.
But watching stuff coming in on a really bad night, high winds rain, snow etc. I was happier on the ground.

[BluSdUp]

Hi Goose
I love your procedure, mine is much the same, but shorter:
At hotel, after Feet on Deck alarm off at 04:00: S S S Leave!
****
Shave
Shower
Leave ( Nothing Behind)

At Airport:
The 4 Cs:
Crew
Craft
Cerosene ( I know Kerosene , but Kaffi is Coffee were I live , so even steven)
Coffee

Leave ( Nothing behind)

Gertrud
( I need 4 sectors to remember FOs name! Grunthilda?)
Contact MariaThePilot or PilotMaria and they will tell you all about how cool it is.
To sit for 4 to 12 hrs at FL370 and listen to the same old story from old chaps like me that love garlic and coffee.

Give us a progress report , Airbus ,Cessna or not!

Kind regards
Cpt B

[misd-agin]

Listen to an equal amount of the opposing POV that still enjoy the job after 40 years. No, just like sex, it's not as exciting as it was the first time. But most people still enjoy sex after decades and decades. "What? You want to put what where? I've done that thousands of times and it's not worth it.... says almost no one.

Ask the naysayers what they'd be doing instead? Ask yourself - what are the odds of that happening? How long does their alternative take to happen? At one point I thought being a surgeon would be interesting. Now I'm glad I never had to do that as, at least to me, flying is more interesting. I've talked with my surgeons and my surgeries were 'ho hum' to them. "Any professional interest in the surgery?" "Not really." Maybe life saving to me but 'another day, another dollar' to them after 10-15 years of surgery. They had 20+ years to go to retirement....

Learn to fly and figure out if it really interests you.

[Herod]

Long time pilot.

Would I do it again? In a heartbeat. But my time was '65 to 04. In today's environment, no.

Stick with your job, get a PPL and fly for fun. Remember, on an exec-jet or long-haul airliner, the best seats are AFT of the cockpit door; and your present job might get you there.

[taxydual]

OK, you want to be talked out of it. Here goes. In the event of a crash, because you sit at the front of the aircraft, you will be the first person to be hurt/killed. Aircraft do not, knowingly, reverse into mountains etc. The other factor is , are you good enough? My posting name on here says it all, dual I was fine, solo I was crap. Sh*t scared, I never got over it. I knew from that first solo that I would be no good at fulfilling my dream. There are an awful lot of people alive today because I realised that I was no good at aviating. I kept my feet on the ground, albeit still in aviation, and after a 45 year career (smelling the Avtur, Avgas fumes), I knew I had made the right choice.

[Uplinker]

Hi Gruntilda.

I was like you. I had a very good job which I really enjoyed. However, I think it is healthy to change career at least once in your life. I voluntarily jumped ship when the opportunity arose and I started the long road to becoming a pilot. I made it.

The PPL side of things is all very well but it might put you off. It is nothing like flying a modern airliner. Training aircraft, such as Cessna 152 or PA28, are very basic and crude, as is the instrumentation. Flying a modern commercial airliner though is fantastic. Airbus for example have really sorted out the flying experience - it is so satisfying to conduct a flight in an A320/321/330. (I would not relish flying a 737, which have a very cramped cockpit and crude automatics).

You need five things to become an airline pilot: Valid Class 1 medical fitness. Ability to fly. A source of lots of money to pay for your training, (and probably, type rating). Ability to pass all the tests and exams. Getting your first commercial flying job.

The money side to becoming a commercial airline pilot is very significant. You need to seriously research this and ask yourself how much private PPL flying or gliding or aerobatic flying or float plane flying you could do for the money.

If you are going to be bothered by working at odd hours, or getting up at 0300 five days in a row, or being jet lagged, or wanting to have a steady home life, or want to play squash every Tuesday, or bothered by working at weekends and National holidays, or being tired, then airline flying is not for you! You will also have to forego evenings at the pub and parties if you are working the next day.

On long-haul, some people complain about being over the ocean at 0300, but that is part of the job, so what you really need is a positive attitude. When I am there, I look at the stars and the planets, watch the International Space Station going over, do some work, look things up in the manuals, write software, wait for the sunrise.....as well as fly. There is plenty to do if you have the right attitude. Having crossed an ocean at night, the sun comes up and you make a really nice approach and a good landing, which is tremendously satisfying.

As others have said, make sure you have a fall-back position in case it doesn't work out, but good luck !

[joblessPilot]

Hi
1 thing finding an aviation job is a struggle. Finding good pay pilot jobs is almost impossible with low hours unless you have a connection in the industry.

I finished my training in the first quarter of last year and to this day I am still looking for a job in aviation.

[blind pew]

Been flying for half a century...loads of sickness ..twice malaria..lost my license..rock polishing in the french alps in large span sailplanes..paragliding..whilst the world is changing there are still fabulous jobs out there and money isn't everything..the sights can't be beaten.

[misd-agin]

737 = crude automatics? They’re better than the Airbus’ but the comfort of the 320 is much better than the 737.

[Mach E Avelli]

It is better to go to your grave regretting the things you did, rather than those you did not do.
Do it....

[Auxtank]

It is better to go to your grave regretting the things you did, rather than those you did not do.
Do it....

Prey allow me to put it more succinctly;
Better to have been a has been than a never was.
Now Fly you ****er....FLY!!!!
X

[Konev]

Im not goign tot ry change your mind, im going to say do it. if you dont like it, find something else to do. At least you would then know that its not right rather than always wodnering why you didnt try.

[High Viz Vest]

If you enjoy your job and it pays well then fly for fun. Dont do it for a living.

[AlphaVictorFoxtrot]

Having done that about 7 years ago, I would say start with a PPL. Figure out if flying is the thing that captivates you, or if it's the act of observing flight that does it for you. (No shame if it's the second one!)

If after you've got your PPL you're still excited to go flying, then work on your CPL - buying a plane at that point may not be a terrible idea - and start researching what you want to do next. Instructing? Charter? BizJets? Corporate? Airline? Every one of those - other than getting to fly a plane - is basically a different career path. See above as to what happens when you pick poorly (and, unlike with many jobs, once you're in one, the opportunity cost of job hunting is exceedingly high - except maybe instructing, as it seems to be the pipeline into many jobs now)

I was 27 when I left a well-paying, but soul-crushing, job. Through doing a road trip to get my first job, to finding out what a "**** operator" is first-hand, to getting laid off and doing odd jobs for a year while doing yet another cross-country road trip, to getting a 'round-the-clock medevac job, to moving to Australia for love and marriage, to doing odd jobs while converting my license for a year, to job hunting for a job here (just to realize I might have to start at the bottom again)... I've had lots of ups and downs in aviation, but one thing I haven't had was regret of the choice to get into it.

That said, everyone is different. If the above sounds bad to you (and, to be honest, it's not what I thought aviation was going to be), and you decide not to get into it... There's no shame in that either. You've got a career you enjoy, and a hobby you love. That's not a bad place to be!

Hopefully, that makes your decision a bit harder! :)

PS: While I'm not claiming everyone's experience will be as trying as mine... I'm also not claiming to know what your luck is like. Clearly, mine is lousy, so I try not to rely on it!

[Stickshift3000]

Get your PPL first and go from there, you’ll have a better idea of your desires once you’re flying for leisure as pilot in command.

I was in a similar situation to yourself 2 years ago, I did the above and am now considering CPL.

[Octane]

Good friend of mine was a linesman for a power company. Secure job, not bad pay but something was missing. He took up flying, I used to join him on nav exercises. We had some great spur of the moment jaunts.
Fast forward 30 years, he's a senior check and training captain on 787's. He does medium haul trips to locations he enjoys.
My brother was at a loose end. I encouraged him to pursue his interest in aviation. 30 years later he's had a varied and interesting career. Now flies B777's.
Both are very happy with their lot and have no regrets.
Give it a go, if it doesn't work out nothing lost. Better than 20 years down the track thinking I wish I had..
:-)

[mrdeux]

If you have a good career path, stick with it. Learn to fly. Buy an aircraft. Fly where and when you feel like it.

[dr dre]

If your ultimate desire is to have a career as a professional pilot, I think the advice of “get a real job and fly privately on the side for fun” usually isn’t sufficient enough to quell that desire.

I personally think the motivations, achievements and fufillments gained through professional flying aren’t the ones that will be solely satisfied via private flying. And vice versa, there are some who will not be satisfied as professional pilots and would be better suited to restricting their flying to private aviation only.

It’s your task to discover if it’s professional or private aviation that you aspire to, and if it is a career as a professional that you are attracted to then just limiting your goals to private aviation will leave you unsatisfied.

I’m not going to talk you out of being a pilot, if you discover that it is your desire to be a professional pilot then go for it.

[Andre Meyer]

- INSERT NIKE SLOGAN HERE -

[The sod]

You seem to have a terrific job.
Owning an aircraft is not that expensive.
I have owned 3 aircraft and regard myself as a plodder.
I found it difficult to study and pass the ATPL subjects, and went down the private ownership path. I still wish I was up front of an Airliner, but such is life.
If you feel you can pass the medicals and pass the ATPL subjects without too much stress then go for it.
However aircraft ownership is very satisfying, particularly if you have something a little different.
A CPL with Instructor rating would maybe get you some weekend work to satisfy your desire to fly. Best of luck.

[jonkster]

I guess what I'm looking for is current/former pilots to "talk me out of it". If you had to start over today in your thirties leaving a good career behind, please tell me why you would not recommend it. Or if you've left your pilot career for another one. It would really help.
I wish there were options to travel on the jump seats... But I suppose I was born 20 years too late for this.


I did the reverse, left a flying career in my late thirties (not airlines) that I loved, for a more financially secure job.

In the new job I was looked after and was with people I loved working with doing interesting stuff but... sitting behind a desk I gradually felt more and more unhappy as years went by. I tried flying part time but too much to do 2 jobs then as a "hobby" for a while but both hated having to pay for something I was once paid to do and felt frustrated because I knew my skills were losing their edge compared to when I was flying full time.

The desk job helped pay off a mortgage though but after a number of years I started to hate the job, despite the way I was looked after and rewarded.

I have now come full circle and am now back exactly where I was, flying again (for the same company I used to fly with) and am much happier.

Financially not as good, less secure long term but happier.

Depends on what you want in life and how much of an aviation tragic you really are (or discover yourself to be). How important is security and money to you? Do you have people dependent on you? Are you willing to take a risk? Worth trying a flying lesson or two just to see.

NB there are other options than just airline pilot (not as well paid usually - sometimes poorly paid in fact but sometimes very rewarding in other ways).

[Centaurus]

it is so satisfying to conduct a flight in an A320/321/330.For the Airbus, pure flying skill not that essential; although can be useful on rare occasions. But love the instrumentation and all those buttons to push or pull as the case may be. Best of all is the dinky little sliding table that slides out enabling you to eat a meal properly instead of balancing a tray on your lap. The view from the front is the same; whether Airbus or Boeing.

[DeltaT]

When you get to a airline jet job, If the job itself doesn't put you off, the a***holes and egos will.
Especially in Australia.

[olderairhead]

If you want to you will, if you don't you won't. Ask yourself not others. And if you make the correct decision you will be happy for life and if you don't you will be miserable.

Your call mate. Simple.

And if you end up happy, correct call. Go with your gut.

[john stro]

I absolutely love flying and want to pursue a career in piloting. The problem is that I’ve heard being away for so long and constantly takes a massive toll on family and relationships. Is this really true or has it been over reacted? What about flying domestic? Is it really as bad as it’s made out to be? Thanks!

[jafar]

I have been flying for 37 years and am about to quit altogether. I used to love my job but not anymore.
What OvertHawk said is unfortunately correct.
I would recommend you stay where you are.
If you don't want to spend money for a CPL, there is always ultralight fun, cheap and without any of the hassle.

​​​​But the decision is yours and yours only.

Have fun

There are a lot of factors here.

I love aviation, I've been in it since i was 16 and have been a pilot for 20 plus years.

I don't really enjoy my job anymore (and mine is so much better than many)... I still love aviation, but doing it for a living with the increasing administration and politics (and reality) can very quickly blunt that enjoyment.

If you want to be an airline pilot to pursue your love and passion for aviation - then think twice!

Public transport flying is now (probably rightly) a very prescriptive occupation. yes it has many challenges but probably not the ones you're looking for.

If you're imagining golden sunrises, exciting routes and the joy of flight then consider:

Getting up at 04:00; arguing with dispatchers; carrying a five figure debt into the first ten years of your career (at least); having your roster written in pencil and pushed to the limit by software designed to work you to exhaustion; dealing with passengers who are at best indifferent and consider you little more than a bus driver through to at worst aggressive and rude; Getting paid a decidedly average salary for the first decade of your career ( don't forget the debt too!). Getting to "fly" the aeroplane for 5 minutes a sector (if it's your sector)... That's just a few of the issues.

Seriously - I love aviation and i like the money I'm now (after twenty years) getting paid. Would i do it again? - that's an artificial question because no-one has hindsight. I came into it young without a strong career - i had little to lose and much to gain.

If you're asking "should I give up a strong career that I really like, working for a good company in order to start from scratch in aviation?" I would reply - "Are you off your rocker?!?!'

Keep the career stability, get a PPL and go and fly a Tiger Moth at the weekends.

Keep your home life, the potential to have a life outside work that can be predicated beyond 48 hours (and which you will be awake for most of).

It genuinely pains me to write this (and my 26 year old self would be horrified) but you're proposing giving up an awful lot for something which I don't think really exists as you perceive or hope it does.

PM me if you wish to ask more speciifics.

All the best - enjoy your flying!
OH

[Nieuport28]

First of all, get yourself a CPL initial medical. If that all goes well,, buy yourself a common trainer like a IFR C172. Find a school you feel fits you and pay for the instructors to teach you in your own aircraft. Get your PPL, do your night rating, do your instrument rating. Do some trips away over weekends and holidays touring around. You will end up over two years or so having the experience and exams for a CPL.

You should enjoy your day job better as you will look forward to the flying, you should also enjoy the flying as you don’t have the stress of funding.

You may have a ball, you might not. You will get to see the industry and Australia from a different perspective. You might also hate it as the career brochure you see now may not reflect the reality you experience. Flying is no different from your current industry, a lot of people who start off and get qualified do not end up working in industry.

Excellent responce. :ok:

[Kakpipe Cosmonaut]

It is better to go to your grave regretting the things you did, rather than those you did not do.
Do it....

+1

(30 year commercial pilot)

[misd-agin]

I just past 41 yrs of professional flying. Forty seven years in total. It's changed but I'd do it again in a a heart beat but I'm in the U.S. Different countries would have different circumstances. People have given up 777 Captain jobs overseas to return to the U.S. to be 737 FO's. So it's not just the quality of the seat you're sitting in that matters.

People shouldn't think for a second that they'll rapidly achieve the level of success, income, stability, or seniority that long time pilots have. It takes years and years, often decades, to achieve the better level of quality of work life. That's the unknown that each person has to experience themselves to judge if it's worth it. How much income will you forgo to achieve a job satisfaction that you won't know until it's years later? recall reading a new CFI complaining about his job after 6 months and asking if there was some special job that someone could point out to him so that he could rapidly advance to a jet job with the highest pay and most days off. Like tens of thousands of guys wouldn't be telling their buddies about that job but were keeping it quiet waiting to reward some total stranger the job opportunity. At least in the U.S. the opportunity for a decent job, even while you're 'cutting your teeth', has never been better. Other countries will have different career opportunities and payoffs.

[Steepclimb]

You have to love flying.

I wanted to fly from a young age. I used the money from my first week's pay, actually first month to book my first flying lesson. A week's pay wouldn't cover it. On the day I caught two buses and then walked several miles to the flying club where I finally took my first flying lesson. Was I enthusiastic? Absolutely.

​​​​I was hooked. After we landed I was dizzy from the effects of the flight and the excitement. After that I dedicated all my money and time to my dream.

But I gather you haven't even had a flying lesson? I see you're in love with aviation but for the pilot it's all about the flying. It's the compensation for putting up with all the BS as laid out above.

You should at least take some lessons. Aim to go solo. No need to commit to anything. If you find it's a passion and you love to fly. Nothing will stop you.

If not well you tried and made a rational decision that it isn't a sensible career. Then you've only lost a few dollars.

I've come to believe that one of the reasons there are so few female pilots is that women are far more likely to take a cold hard look at the realities. I think your post is an example of that.

But I won't try to talk you out of it. Many pilots wouldn't do anything else and some come to hate it. So you need to get it out of your system. Dip your toes and see what happens. I also wouldn't discount a career in aviation. Lots of opportunities there for the ambitious.

As for me? Fell out of love with flying eventually. Recently a friend dragged to Africa to do some bush flying in his new aeroplane. I wasn't nervous I was bored. He offered me a chance to get checked out in it. I said no.

My 18 year self would be horrified. Not that flying wasn't fun. One day while flying skydivers there was the usual banter during the climb between the tandem instructors and me. One customer spoke out . 'You guys' he said 'have the best job in the world.' For one moment I suppose we did.
​​​​​​

[KRviator]

I gave up flying for a career more than a decade ago for a career driving trains. I've been doing that for 14 years come this Thursday and can't imagine doing anything else. I still get paid to look out a window (Contrary to what my Yr 11 English Teacher said would never happen...) I do work with some deadset morons, but also some top-notch crew whose numbers fortunately outweigh said morons, I've been able to pay off my house, buy a new 4wd as well as build an RV-9 that I fly for fun with my young bloke - and I'm still under 40!

I'm fortunate to have been able to transition to a part-time roster so I only effectively work 107 days a year yet still earn over $100K but get so much more time with the family than I would have ever got with a flying job - but with the RV I can still fly where I want, when I want. If that is 500' down Victor 1 past Sydney at 170 knots, or taking Mini-Me to Temora to see the Spitfire fly, I can. I don't have to deal with dispatchers, passengers or "security". Flying is supposed to be fun and if you make a career out of a hobby, that can wear off all too quickly - I've seen it dozens of times in Rail. "I wanna drive trains..." says the train buff, yet after a year of shiftwork suddenly the appeal has worn off and they are gone. Don't make that mistake if you are in a good career you enjoy already. Fly for fun and enjoy it.

I fly as SLF regularly for work and have occasionally talked to the tech crew when they appear for a potty break, and while all have said they still enjoy what they do, almost universally, they have said they would never do it again were they to have their time over. For the senior Captains, it's typically because flying today "isn't what it used to be", for the FO's and junior Captain's, time away from their family, constant sim checks, the possibility of the airline going under, lack of hand-flying opportunities lest they upset the QAR and get a please explain and sometimes even a perceived lack of progression all got a mention.

[lucille]

Gruntilda said......”I've thought about a PPL but in my opinion it would just be setting a foot through the door and I'd be even more tempted to try and change careers. It's also a decent chunk of money for something that would just be a hobby.”

If you think a PPL is a decent chunk of money, then maybe you’re not earning as much as you imply.

The only thing I’ll say is an airline career (probably 75% of all jobs) is not flying. And with every improvement in automation and technology, it becomes less so. If you “love” flying think long and hard about committing yourself to sitting in an aluminium tube for the next 40 years. But, yes, it does pay well.

The job is easy, not particularly intellectually challenging. What you are selling is your health. Years of constant fatigue from poor rest and broken sleep will take their toll.

But in the end all of the above means little... as someone said ..you only regret the things you didn’t do. So go for it. And the only real way to find out if you’ve made a mistake is to go for it. Drop me a line in 30 or 40 years time telling me how right or wrong I was back in 2020.

[megan]

Gruntilda, would a military career appeal? Learn to fly for free and an opportunity to fly anything from airline type aircraft to fighters. I don't know about currently, but a lady was/is boss of the C-17 squadron, so no limitation on what level or career path you have open to you. The camaraderie on a squadron is something missing in most commercial fields.

Save for four years following school I spent my life until retirement in a cockpit, wouldn't change a thing.

https://www.defencejobs.gov.au/jobs/Air-Force/pilot?entryMethod=e54ef28e-e433-42ee-abb8-a2d2432f7f06

[Asturias56]

I'd say do the PPL - you'll always regret not doing it and it's a lot of fun

Going on to be a professional - Different choices - and not all pilots jobs are Airbus or Boeing taxi drivers.

If you want to get depressed read any of the Qantas or (worse) Cathay forums on here - some very embittered people I'm afraid. But the other forums are full of people who love flying - even when it doesn't pay very much.....

[Gruntilda]

Well I was not expecting so many replies and want to thank all of you. It's been very helpful to read both pros and cons opinions and experiences. Probably a bit more pros than I would have hoped!
I'll try to respond as much as possible.


As long as you have a career you could return to in case you get cold feet...

If you'd been through enough bad times in life so that you'll be ever aware of the upsides of the piloting job...

The worst case you have a taste and see it was not meant to be your destiny afterall, but gain serenity at heart...

You might be a lost cause, 😉

Well I could very well be! One thing I omitted in my original post is that prior moving to Australia I was working for a large company and was quite depressed about it. I felt like a drone. So while I'd always have the option to come back to the finance industry it would probably not be under the same circumstances I am at the moment.

I've read some of those but not really in depth, I'll do that more on my commute.

Again, thanks again to everyone who replied.

I believe I'll take a class 1 medical and see what happens there. Not a huge commitment at this stage!

[SSDK]

11 Years in. 1 GA and 2 different low-cost jobs in Europe - and I'm still quite happy and motivated.

I have another degree and managed to work in an office for a few different companies before pursuing a flying career. I hated it. The 9-5, get up at the same time every day is my personal nightmare. I'm actually one of those rare people who likes what most people hate in the job when it comes to that.

And yes - some days can be horrible with snow, delays, long days and so on. But when I look at how much free time I have in comparison to my old colleagues in the "civil world" and what I get paid to do it it (not that I'm rich), it's totally worth it.

A fed words of advice if you want to "manage your happiness" in this industry:

- Try not to complain too much. Many people complain over the most trivial things in most companies. It will slowly eat you up, and it will become your world view. I'm lucky to be in the left seat. I can set the tone of the day, and I refuse to do/listen to a 10hr "this company sucks" monolog.

- Never put too much financial strain on you life. Everybody wants the biggest house, car or whatever they can get. Keep your life spending at a reasonable level and save up some "OH ****" money for a rainy day. Be sensible!

- Follow the advice from above and try and go part time (70% or even less) when you can. You will do very little actual work in most companies if you can get it. The money will most likely still be ok...

- Think long and hard about getting a job too far away from where you have your life. Friendships etc. needs to be maintained and the more lonely you get, the more you tend to focus on the little details you would normally "sweat" at work. The biggest complainers are always the ones who are most lonely.

- If you don't find flying "your thing" anyway then quit (and try someting else) or try and get a new job. 90% of the time a change of scenery will change your perspective. It did for me - twice.

Anyways. Good luck!

[FlightDetent]

Where is the "follow this person" button ...

[CXDOG]

The biggest difference I’ve found between flying for fun and flying professionally is that as a CPL you no longer get to choose your destinations which as a control freak, can be a bit of a downer. As a GA CPL, I would visit our main destination up to 6 times a day. As a regional turboprop FO, I visited the same airport over 400 times in a year. As a long haul jet pilot I have visited Anchorage, Alaska. The first few times were pretty interesting. After about the 100th visit in the middle of a cold, dark winter, not so much.

[Bravo Delta]

Good evening,

I apologise if this isn't posted in the appropriate section, please move the post if this is the case.

Title says all! But I'm going to get a bit into details. As I'm enjoying the last evening of my summer break and getting ready to go back to work tomorrow...
I'm in my early thirties, born in Europe and moved to Australia ~4 years ago. I work in finance for an amazing company which is doing very well. It's a small business and we all get along, the job itself is the best I've ever had and being a small business I got to help on everything when needed so there's more variety than your typical large company jobs.
I have been treated and rewarded very well. Money is good. But you know, in the end, it's a job. I feel very fortunate.

The thing is: my true passion is aviation. I do plane spotting very often (2-4 times a month). I still feel the same rush and amazement when I hear the ATC say "cleared for takeoff" and few seconds later the roar of the engines... I just wish I was the one in control of the aircraft. It doesn't help that being a female I am also tempted by the sirens of the "diversity" programs at almost every company.

Now back to reality. Honestly, I've done the maths and between the uncertainty and the guaranteed opportunity cost... I know it's not worth it. There's the risk that the novelty wears off and that between rostering and all the issues I've read about, there's only a tiny chance that I end up in a better position that I am at now (if I even get a job in the first place). And it doesn't look to me that the future will be any better.
I've thought about a PPL but in my opinion it would just be setting a foot through the door and I'd be even more tempted to try and change careers. It's also a decent chunk of money for something that would just be a hobby.

Still, even if I reasonably know that it's not worth it, a part of me just cannot let it go.

I guess what I'm looking for is current/former pilots to "talk me out of it". If you had to start over today in your thirties leaving a good career behind, please tell me why you would not recommend it. Or if you've left your pilot career for another one. It would really help.
I wish there were options to travel on the jump seats... But I suppose I was born 20 years too late for this.

Cheers!

I was in a similar position as you some 25 years ago, I love flying but I dropped out of the commercial aspect due to the soul destroying aggression displayed by other participants in the industry.
Eventually the passion will be overtaken by companies you fly for and fellow aviators who will destroy your passion.
Think carefully.
Have you considered becoming a sailing ship commander ?
Im not a big believer in the human effect on climate change but unfortunately the radical left are about to hit the aviation industry.
The future of aviation is about to go through a major reconstruction which will be great for Island nation’s reducing immigration issues.
Future litigation will prevail for Boeing and Airbus similar to those imposed upon Tobacco companies.
Sailing boats are the future Lol

Gulfsream G650 Captain would be the buzz though

[Will IB Fayed]

So you're in your early 30's. Have a think about what the job will be like as you come up to retirement. Do you think technology will change much in the next 30yrs? Still have a job?

If you are still keen, def try the RAAF. They're falling over thmeselves trying to recruit females. After wings, your contract (ROSO) is only like 3 weeks or something (ok, maybe 3/4 years) because apparently it cost less to train you (??).
5 years total, great experience and no debt.

[Steepclimb]

Well I was not expecting so many replies and want to thank all of you. It's been very helpful to read both pros and cons opinions and experiences. Probably a bit more pros than I would have hoped!
I'll try to respond as much as possible.



Well I could very well be! One thing I omitted in my original post is that prior moving to Australia I was working for a large company and was quite depressed about it. I felt like a drone. So while I'd always have the option to come back to the finance industry it would probably not be under the same circumstances I am at the moment.

I've read some of those but not really in depth, I'll do that more on my commute.

Again, thanks again to everyone who replied.

I believe I'll take a class 1 medical and see what happens there. Not a huge commitment at this stage!
Good but take my advice and take a few lessons. You don't need a medical for that. It's not just the flying, you gain an insight into the 'club' you're joining. It's usually very welcoming. As you can see from the replies whether coloured by enthusiasm or bitter experience. We do want to help.

You'll find that a lot.

[dr dre]

If you are still keen, def try the RAAF. They're falling over thmeselves trying to recruit females. After wings, your contract (ROSO) is only like 3 weeks or something (ok, maybe 3/4 years) because apparently it cost less to train you (??).
5 years total, great experience and no debt.

I have a question regarding that. It sounds great in theory, have taxpayer funded training then walk out into a highly paid civilian job after a short obligation, but does it actually work out in practice?

I was under the impression most military pilots only flew a couple of hundred hours per year. So whilst they may meet the minimums for some airline FO jobs with those flying hours they wouldn’t meet ATPL requirements, and they’d be at a disadvantage to civilian pilots who could potentially rack up 2500ish hours in three years of full time flying. So while only being forced to stay in the Air Force for 3 years for female pilots does sound great are they exiting into similar civilian jobs as their counterparts who stayed for the full 10 years are?

Genuinely interested to know

[junior.VH-LFA]

I have a question regarding that. It sounds great in theory, have taxpayer funded training then walk out into a highly paid civilian job after a short obligation, but does it actually work out in practice?

I was under the impression most military pilots only flew a couple of hundred hours per year. So whilst they may meet the minimums for some airline FO jobs with those flying hours they wouldn’t meet ATPL requirements, and they’d be at a disadvantage to civilian pilots who could potentially rack up 2500ish hours in three years of full time flying. So while only being forced to stay in the Air Force for 3 years for female pilots does sound great are they exiting into similar civilian jobs as their counterparts who stayed for the full 10 years are?

Genuinely interested to know

2500 hours of bug smashing doesn't equate to the same type of flying military does. I have mates who aren't much above airline minimums that have walked into direct entry FO jobs at major carriers in Australia after flying with the military. I also have mates in the military that couldn't get a gig. Suspect it more relates to the person, not the hours in the book.

[dr dre]

2500 hours of bug smashing doesn't equate to the same type of flying military does. I have mates who aren't much above airline minimums that have walked into direct entry FO jobs at major carriers in Australia after flying with the military. I also have mates in the military that couldn't get a gig. Suspect it more relates to the person, not the hours in the book.

I’ve got civilian trained mates who have walked into FO positions on a Boeing/Airbus with 200hrs total. Doesn’t really answer the question, has anyone in this reduced obligation period for some pilots been able to exit into a major airline FO job? Or is the program still too new for anyone to have completed it?

[junior.VH-LFA]

I’ve got civilian trained mates who have walked into FO positions on a Boeing/Airbus with 200hrs total. Doesn’t really answer the question, has anyone in this reduced obligation period for some pilots been able to exit into a major airline FO job? Or is the program still too new for anyone to have completed it?

There is no one contracted under that scheme that would be eligible to discharge. That said, I am friends with people who are under it and the more than meet the minimums to leave. I'm sure where the few hundred hours a year thing comes from, aside from the fast pointy things.

[Lookleft]

dr dre you have finally answered my question about your aviation background. If you don't understand the difference between an airline cadetship and an airline direct entry then you really don't understand the system.

[Window heat]

I did 4000hrs in GA, the hardest, most financially destructive time but I learned a lot and had some fun. 25 years in 4 heavy types since and I still love the job but hate the lack of sleep (Longhaul). If you want it, do it. Just go in with your eyes open and be thankful that you have a backup career. My first question to young people looking at a flying career is “do you like to eat rice? Because that is all you will be able to afford”. If you go into an aviation career, it’s because you like flying, any other reason will leave you disappointed.

[Global Aviator]

I did 4000hrs in GA, the hardest, most financially destructive time but I learned a lot and had some fun. 25 years in 4 heavy types since and I still love the job but hate the lack of sleep (Longhaul). If you want it, do it. Just go in with your eyes open and be thankful that you have a backup career. My first question to young people looking at a flying career is “do you like to eat rice? Because that is all you will be able to afford”. If you go into an aviation career, it’s because you like flying, any other reason will leave you disappointed.

Your missing the spam cans & baked beans!!!

I’m a firm believer of no regrets, have a crack.

I’ve fooked up plenty of times with silly decisions but flying certainly wasn’t one of them.

[bigdoggottaeat]

Too Dangerous don’t do it

[OzFerret]

I went the other way, took the safe option, The good job, the secure life. I let the chance slide by.

I wish I had taken the chance, been bold, gone where I was called.

Even if it comes to nothing, do not take the road to regret. Go for it while the chance is there.

OzFerret