View Full Version : Blackhawk down Taiwan
jolihokistix
2nd Jan 2020, 04:35
Top military brass on board.
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3848738
https://japantoday.com/category/world/update-1-taiwan-top-military-official-missing-after-helicopter-made-emergency-landing
jolihokistix
2nd Jan 2020, 06:07
Sad follow-up.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/taiwan-air-force-general-missing-helicopter-emergency-200102024130620.html
Flying Bull
2nd Jan 2020, 16:11
watched a documentary about the blackhawk lately - and that its crash survivability was the reason it won against its rival.
Its a rumor network - and even while they say, weather wasn’t a factor, my rough guess is, that it was CFIT...
To much high ranking personal on board for a normal taiwanese pilot to insist on No... (my guess)
3wheels
2nd Jan 2020, 17:13
and even while they say, weather wasn’t a factor, my rough guess is, that it was CFIT...
you only have to look at the pics here to see what the weather was like...
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3044273/search-senior-taiwan-military-men-black-hawk-forced-landing
aa777888
2nd Jan 2020, 18:02
Why would they not have filed IFR and been on an IFR flight profile?
malabo
2nd Jan 2020, 23:22
Really no structure for IFR, no approaches at destination. Now you or I may have just done a cloud break past the shoreline offshore, but I doubt their ATC system would swallow such a concept. National Military pilots in SE Asia seem unlucky with CFIT, might be for cultural reasons as someone has already hinted.
Here’s some “pichers”. How would you have done it?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1514x1119/e8a3bb12_8736_49df_96de_770c216aa9b2_d9b1d67034d04df66519fe1 b543e3056c5933517.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/480x640/fc03a8e2_93bd_4f73_88c6_e0e638fababf_033778ddbd29aad9db50590 24d471501fa473060.png
gulliBell
2nd Jan 2020, 23:32
Too many Generals aboard the one aircraft. Took a big chunk out of the top brass in one fowl swoop. By the look of the crumpled remains of that 60M it was lucky anybody survived. But then again, it is a BlackHawk. Doubt very much it met its demise through any mechanical fault, particularly in view of the terrain and weather.
gulliBell
2nd Jan 2020, 23:37
...How would you have done it?
Sorry Sir, the weather is ****e. We'll give it a go as soon as the weather improves. In the meantime, Sir, if I might recommend the Kimchi joint across the road....(or whatever).
armchairpilot94116
3rd Jan 2020, 00:06
There are some nice trains they could have taken or they could even have driven. Nice roads to where they were going.
Bad weather and mountains and helicopters often don’t do well together. And in Taiwan bad weather and mountains are almost daily.
Flying Bull
3rd Jan 2020, 08:04
Here’s some “pichers”. How would you have done it?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1514x1119/e8a3bb12_8736_49df_96de_770c216aa9b2_d9b1d67034d04df66519fe1 b543e3056c5933517.jpeg
well, haven’t been there and don’t know the excact conditions on the day - but looking at satellite pictures, initially going east north east until reaching the coast and following it to the south might have been a safer option.
With real low cloud going north directly to the shoreline would have added another 30 min isch to the flight time - but would still be a safer way to accomplish the mission ....
aa777888
3rd Jan 2020, 11:02
Really no structure for IFR, no approaches at destination.Looked at some charts and I see what you mean.
Stay above MSA until at Dongao then a GPS letdown over the sea - then coast in slowly at about 100' asl/agl - or just stay at home.
Flying Bull
3rd Jan 2020, 17:33
Stay above MSA until at Dongao then a GPS letdown over the sea - then coast in slowly at about 100' asl/agl - or just stay at home.
Well, with Taiwan getting and sending goods by ship - the let down height over see needs to be at least 300 feet - or you might just have a CFIS ;-)
Self loading bear
3rd Jan 2020, 21:38
Stay above MSA until at Dongao then a GPS letdown over the sea - then coast in slowly at about 100' asl/agl - or just stay at home.
Are you suggesting operations above extended stretches of water without floats?
jolihokistix
4th Jan 2020, 03:40
All Taiwan Blackhawks grounded.
https://time.com/5758215/taiwan-grounds-black-hawk-helicopters-crash/
FB and SLB - I don't know what the fit of their aircraft is - do they have radar and or floats?
I wasn't suggesting it as an SOP, just as a way of getting down if you were stuck.
SASless
4th Jan 2020, 15:50
Crab is right on this one.
Very similar emergency technique was common down in the Oil Patch in Louisiana and other offshore operations......if you got caught out by the fog or banks.
The letdown was over the sea or over the swamp.....using radar, rad alt, and reduced airspeed....and if so equipped...use the auto-pilot.
In VFR only aircraft with just the basic panel....same technique in an emergency situation.
Ironic that the Time article says the aircraft was one specifically purchased and specc'd for SAR.
armchairpilot94116
5th Jan 2020, 01:22
Chopper crash likely unrelated to mechanical failure, weather: TTSB | Politics | Focus Taiwan - CNA English News (http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aipl/202001040008.aspx)
Very similar emergency technique was common down in the Oil Patch in Louisiana and other offshore operations......if you got caught out by the fog or banks.
The letdown was over the sea or over the swamp.....using radar, rad alt, and reduced airspeed....and if so equipped...use the auto-pilot.
In VFR only aircraft with just the basic panel....same technique in an emergency situationEmergency technique SAS? Everyday standard SOP.
malabo
6th Jan 2020, 00:03
Megan wrote Everyday standard SOP.
Cracked open my trusty North Sea OMA and there it was, fully approved by the regulator for routine offshore operations. SAR brings you down even lower and closer.