The Military Division of the New Year Honours 2020

[Union Jack]

The Military Division of the New Year Honours 2020
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-military-division-of-the-new-year-honours-2020

[RAFEngO74to09]

Congratulations to all.

KBE for the RAF Chief Engineer Air Marshal Julian Young

MBE for F-35B Test Pilot Squadron Leader Andy Edgell

[NutLoose]

Sorry but if it was SAC joe blogs who had spent 20 years servicing aircraft bogs I would have more respect for the awards rather than some wing commander who has been awarded it on the backs of the said SAC or has been awarded it by simply attaining a rank, the system is corrupt and stinks to the core, the Country is full of far more deserving people like those that donate their lives to the care of others, whilst earning a piss poor renumeration.

[Asturias56]

It's a farce

AM = KB
AVM = CB
OBE = Grp Capt, Wing Cdr
MBE = Sq Lead & the common herd

and of course you stand a much greater chance of getting a gong the higher up the greasy pole you are

[Bob Viking]

I’m not saying I disagree with the previous viewpoints entirely and I can’t pretend I care either way. I am content that I am highly unlikely to ever receive such an award and it really does not bother me in the slightest.

Here’s the contentious bit though. And I really am just saying it to play devils advocate not because I really believe it. Maybe those senior officers have earned the honour? Maybe the higher up the pole you get, the more influence you have and therefore the easier it is to earn an honour.

I fly jets. I’ve been doing it for a reasonably long time. But in the grand scheme of things, I am just one pilot doing a common job and my individual contribution doesn’t keep the world turning. Andy Edgell’s contribution on the other hand has had more of an impact, hence the honour.

Now, if SAC Bloggs were to have revolutionised the toilet cleaning role and made a contribution that changes the toilet cleaning world for the better then maybe he could receive an honour. But just like I don’t deserve an honour simply for doing my day job maybe neither does he?

I just can’t shake the feeling that every time the honours list comes out we get the standard sour grapes posts. Just try to be happy for others rather than gnashing your teeth. It’ll save your teeth for starters.

BV

[Asturias56]

I strongly support honours for bravery etc - but for doing your job well? The reward for that should be accelerated promotion (or more money in civie street)

And the clear and very formal association with rank is obvious - are we really saying that EVERY AM and AVM did a better job than EVERY one of the recipients of the OBE? Very very doubtful

[MPN11]

was it not John Major who attempted, with mixed success, to democratise some the processes? ISTR that the 'automatic K' on promotion to 3* went long ago.

As to the rest of it, I have little to argue about. Certainly some/many have greater opportunities for earning extra recognition, and the higher up the tree the greater the opportunity for a national honour.

[BEagle]

I've little time for those with chips on their shoulders who trot out the same old moans every year at this time.

But Honours for luvvies or overpaid people who run, jump, splash about, throw, kick or hit things? Even less.

[Wrathmonk]

Interesting that the new CAS didn't get his 'K'....

[MPN11]

Interesting that the new CAS didn't get his 'K'....Ah, not currant on that! But I get the feeling these top guys have to do a year or so before the K.

As to the sporting/luvvie fraternity/sorority, I guess some are deserved when they do other things (e.g. Charidee) but just getting an honour for being good at sport and winning some medals is, IMO, stupid. Indeed, on that basis, I should have got something!

But I do applaud the long-term successes of Dave Calvert MBE https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/shooting/43567224 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/shooting/43567224)
And my old team-mate Mick Gault OBE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Gault

[Easy Street]

I strongly support honours for bravery etc - but for doing your job well? The reward for that should be accelerated promotion (or more money in civie street)

And the clear and very formal association with rank is obvious - are we really saying that EVERY AM and AVM did a better job than EVERY one of the recipients of the OBE? Very very doubtful

It’s so obvious that it’s actually laid out for the public to see at Annex A to Chapter 4 of JSP761 (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/557785/JSP761_Part1.pdf). Orders of chivalry originated as ways of recognising armed service so I have no difficulty with the concept of very senior officers being knighted for doing their job very well.

How do you give accelerated promotion to a senior officer when the number of available posts is so small? And yes, a AM who has done sufficiently well to warrant state recognition will have done a ‘better job’ than a wg cdr because the span of their responsibilities is so much greater and they are able to make more of a difference to the success of the wider organisation.

Meanwhile the lack of a ‘K’ for the new chief probably stems from the fact that he only became a 3* just over a year ago and the submissions for this list had to be in several months ago, so he wouldn’t have accrued enough ‘evidence’ in a rank eligible for knighthood. Would be very surprising if he’s not on the next list or the one after, though.

Congratulations to all on the list!

[Black Swan]

Interesting that the new CAS didn't get his 'K'....

Over recent years, the CAS have (if not already been awarded a 'K') been awarded a 'K' prior to their appointment as CAS, usually in the NYHL, with them taking over as CAS around July time.

Also, on leaving the CAS role, the incumbent is usually 'upgraded' to either GCB or GBE, if not before leaving post, at the next immediate HL. Interestingly, the last CAS, Sir Stephen Hillier hasn't received an 'upgrade', yet the last 1SL has, in this NYHL.

Maybe the RAF are looking to break with tradition, or there has been a few admin errors!

Either way, congratulations to all receipients

[Richard Dangle]

Wasn't there a well known chap who got a knighthood, OBE, several honorary doctorates, an honorary Green Beret from the RM and assorted honors and awards from every which where...who subsequently (and posthumously) turned out to be a human turd of the first order, and what's more, turned out a fair few people dishing out said awards might have had more than an inkling this was the case.

...so not fan. Never was.

Sour grapes...don't be childish, apart from 27 wonderful years with awesome people, I got myself something a gazillion times more important. It's called a pension.

To those who got given awards n'stuff; very well done. And to those who do wonderful, but often invisible and thankless jobs in all manner of public service...thank you so much, all of you.

[NutLoose]

No pomme frites on my shoulder, I simply think the whole system is corrupted, I was reading about the guy on London Bridge who took on the knife wielding terrorist, the fact he in his past was a murderer has instantly prevented him going to Betty's place to receive an high honour and he may now receive a lessor police award to circumvent the rules. So much so for rewarding bravery, true I realise he murdered a girl in his past, a heinous crime, but that should not detract from the fact he put himself in danger and was a large part of preventing further deaths and should be honour on par with the others involved. Though latest articles seem to now indicate that may change, I hope it does.

[Asturias56]

I'm with you Nut but TBF no awards for civilian gallantry are made instantly in the UK anymore - it took months for the London Bridge/Borough Market awards to come through. They have to make sure everyone is ID'd, that their contribution is correctly documented etc etc - and in the case where there might be a trial (luckily not in this case) they may be delayed until there is a verdict in case it "influences the jury"

I'd suspect it 'll be GM's for several people here tho'.................

[beamer]

I knew a chap in the RAF who went on to very senior rank - AM. Along with each promotion seemed to come yet another appearance in the Honours List. The Officer in question was clearly a capable fellow, and dare I say, a really nice guy, but such a stream of awards was surely unnecessary.

Don't even start me upon sports 'personalities' and artistic luvvies. Thankfully there are still plenty of awards for ordinary people doing extraordinary things for society - long may such awards dominate the lists in terms of numbers if not publicity.

[Bob Viking]

The general disdain for ‘artistic luvvies’ and sportspeople on this forum also baffles me.

I realise their exploits may not be to your taste or in a field you care much about. However, whether you agree or not their exploits bring a lot of pleasure to a great many people (much of it vicariously admittedly) and that is the point of the award.

The local person doing civic deeds is very deserving of an award but probably reaches far fewer people in reality.

Basically, however the system works you’ll never please everyone.

If you hand them out like candy you devalue them. If you make them too hard to get they become pointless. And some people will just never agree with most awards whatever the criteria.

BV

[November4]

Link (https://www.gov.uk/honours)

The honours system recognises people who have:

made achievements in public life
committed themselves to serving and helping Britain

They’ll usually have made life better for other people or be outstanding at what they do.

They must still be actively involved in what you’re nominating them for.

Assume the acting and sports honours come under the "be outstanding at what they do" category.

[MFC_Fly]

Sorry but if it was SAC joe blogs who had spent 20 years servicing aircraft bogs I would have more respect for the awards rather than some wing commander who has been awarded it on the backs of the said SAC or has been awarded it by simply attaining a rank, the system is corrupt and stinks to the core, the Country is full of far more deserving people like those that donate their lives to the care of others, whilst earning a piss poor renumeration.

What's up Nutty, were you missed off the list again? :)

[Thereismore]

Public service employment will never come with the opportunity to make large bounds In pay increment and for a long time now part of ‘the deal’ is the a recognised path towards receiving honours and award of this nature. Where pay is not a lever ; gongs and status a viable tool. As many here have said many times before - it’s not all about the money. Recognition is formalised this way.

[alwayslookingup]

I'm sure it's been said on here before, but as my late Father (ex Mob) used to say at this time of the year, "Officers get OBEs which stands for Other Bugger's Efforts. Other Ranks get MBEs which stands for My Bloody Efforts". I always thought that just about summed it up.

[Tankertrashnav]

Bob Viking - (post #18) - well said :ok:

[DON T]

At least no one got my address.����

[Martin the Martian]

Bob Viking - (post #18) - well said :ok:

Seconded.:ok:

[langleybaston]

If ever anyone deserved a K it is Farage. Without his vision and perseverance the democratic outcome of the Brexit Referendum would have been denied indefinitely.
Regardless of Leave or Remain [we are all Leavers now] his "services to politics" are beyond question.

It will not happen of course.

[The Nip]

The general disdain for ‘artistic luvvies’ and sportspeople on this forum also baffles me.
BV

Maybe it is because the above generally are doing their job, for which they are paid handsomely. They are will possibly receive their own awards by being the best in their chosen field, ie Gold Medal, World Champion or an Oscar. And all the financial rewards that go with it.

If you look upon the first rule of being worthy of an honour is, Service before self, then it can be very simple.
If you spend lots of time making a difference improving people's lives, great. But just for being in a successful film etc doesn't, IMHO, cut it.

[Asturias56]

Farage turned down an Honour according to himself - and the Civil Service don't ask twice..............

[langleybaston]

Farage turned down an Honour according to himself - and the Civil Service don't ask twice..............

Thank you. Any idea when please?

[Asturias56]

No idea - but there was some talk the Tories would buy him off with a seat in the Lords about 6 weeks before the election and the bookies weren't taking odds on him getting a knighthood less than a week agao

Wiki lists him as a refusnik with a reference...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_honour

[langleybaston]

Thank you. Regardless of one's personal politics,difficult to disagree with the proposition that no other single person has had so great influence in recent times.
In Farage's case, twice: once when his UKIP was a major factor in the Referendum being granted, and recently when his Brexit party exerted huge leverage in the MEP election and subsequently.

[pr00ne]

Asturia,

It's not the Civil Service that do the asking! And "they" DO ask twice, I can assure you...

[Jonny956]

I note a number of posts expressing unhappiness at military officers gaining State recognition for their efforts. Such sweeping generalisations are a little unfair, as I doubt the critics know anything about the circumstances behind these awards.

[Asturias56]

They haven't asked me once..... :uhoh:

[NutLoose]

Thank you. Regardless of one's personal politics,difficult to disagree with the proposition that no other single person has had so great influence in recent times.
In Farage's case, twice: once when his UKIP was a major factor in the Referendum being granted, and recently when his Brexit party exerted huge leverage in the MEP election and subsequently.

He certainly has come a long way from that strange man seen hanging upside down in the crashed Wilga aircraft, when no one really knew who he was or what he was about.

[BEagle]

If ever anyone deserved a K it is Farage. Without his vision and perseverance the democratic outcome of the Brexit Referendum would have been denied indefinitely.
Regardless of Leave or Remain [we are all Leavers now] his "services to politics" are beyond question.

It will not happen of course.

Are you completely mad? If Farage deserves any form of 'K', then it should be nothing more than a sound kick in the slats!

[langleybaston]

Are you completely mad? If Farage deserves any form of 'K', then it should be nothing more than a sound kick in the slats!

That reads as coming from a Remainer. We are all leavers now.

If "services to politics" means what it says, I rest my case.

[BEagle]

Weather-guesser, perhaps you should take your politics elsewhere, to wherever the pig ignorant "We've got our country back" little Englanders are enjoying the prospect of a return to their Ladybird book memories of the 1950s.

[Bob Viking]

I think I speak for many on here when I say that you are becoming less pleasant with age.

I realise my comments won’t pierce your rhinoceros like hide but you really need to consider if many of your sentiments really require public airing.

BV

[langleybaston]

Beagle, do calm down before you are a little bit rude.

[Wrathmonk]

their Ladybird book memories of the 1950s

....says the person who constantly bangs their chops about “the good old days”. So are you now saying the good old days weren’t so good.

[langleybaston]

Do leave Beagle alone, he clearly is not feeling too good.

[MFC_Fly]

I think I speak for many on here when I say that you are becoming less pleasant with age.

I agree. I used to enjoy reading Beags learned mutterings, now he just comes across as bitter and sometimes unpleasant :(

[NutLoose]

Cheer up guys, I'm here... :)

[Finningley Boy]

Weather-guesser, perhaps you should take your politics elsewhere, to wherever the pig ignorant "We've got our country back" little Englanders are enjoying the prospect of a return to their Ladybird book memories of the 1950s.

There are some interesting new Ladybird books with a most humorous take on the past. One is; We're off to Brexit Island!

FB
PS Any road up Beags, you're beginning to come across a bit pr00ne-esque?

[BEagle]

I admit that I'm not having the best of times right now and apologise if that has coloured my recent posts.

Nevertheless, I cannot accept that Farage is worth of any honour. However, any further political comments should best be made on Jet Blast, perhaps?

Finningley Boy , those J A Hazeley and J P Morris 'Ladybird Books for Grown-Ups' are indeed excellent! A friend gave me 'The Story of Brexit' as a Christmas gift, which is brilliant - and so true! For example:

The Prime Minister organised the referendum because he was sure everybody would want things to stay exactly as they were.

But it turned out that not everybody was having as nice a time as the Prime Minister.

So the Prime Minister ran away.

It was quiet in the Prime Minister's shed.

There's also A Ladybird Book About Donald Trump, described as:

A charming introduction to the President of the United States, the important jobs he has to do, and the friends he's made all over the world.

Both available from the usual suspects!

Happy New Year to all!

[Lima Juliet]

I voted to leave for a different relationship with the corrupt and crooked €U. However, I cannot stand Farage and there is no way he deserves a K for the vitriol and bile he has uttered in Brussels towards the €urophiles. He is a nasty piece of work, as are many of his followers who are only slightly left of the English Defence League.

As for those on the military list - well done all. I also think that those getting Commendations from CAS and the 3-star DCOMs should get a little more than just a certificate to hang on the downstairs toilet wall. How about a small “Commendation Pin” to be worn on No 1 and No 2 dress? These awards are given out to around 1 in 2,000, so they aren’t exactly common. Just to be clear, I’m not talking about a medal here, just a small pin about the size of a 5p piece.

[Finningley Boy]

Happy New Year to you Beagle, one and all! And as Beagle testifies, look out those particular Ladybird books as New year presents!

FB

[beardy]

Happy New to all.

There is a 'Ladybird Easy Reading, Typhoon Force' in circulation. It's a good read! 🌋
​​​​

[BEagle]

Lima Juliet wrote: How about a small “Commendation Pin” to be worn on No 1 and No 2 dress?

"A pin on your uniform....??"

https://youtu.be/0Dy2fo6E_pI

;)

[GlassCollector]

Happy New to all.

There is a 'Ladybird Easy Reading, Typhoon Force' in circulation. It's a good read! 🌋
​​​​

Yes, most enlightening ;)

[rlsbutler]

Has some sort of policy developed which ends the award of AFC with the New Year and Birthday honours ? In days gone by the AFC would have been the obvious award for someone like Sqn Ldr Andy Edgell.

MPN11 remarked on the John Major policy to “democratise” the honours. I would have thought the reduction in the flow of honours to the armed forces’ VSOs reflects their loss of status in the Whitehall battlefield rather than the shrinkage in the defence demographic.

While Major brought in new gallantry medals, he abolished the BEM presumably because in some muddled way he disapproved of the rank system. It must please some of the posters here that their notional SAC bog-cleaner can only get an MBE, so making parity for him with several star Squadron Leaders and an acting Captain RNR on this list. The mistake of abolishing the BEM was quickly rectified in the civil list. Now the anomaly is that SAC Boggs might well get an MBE while Mrs Mopp most certainly will not. Unintended consequences or what? I noted, in an early honours list after the BEM was restored, that a retired Major in Wiltshire was awarded one. What did he think and why did they bother ?

As one who would wish to take the honours system seriously, I have been distracted by the clerical sloppiness of the published lists, even before the clanger dropped in the Cabinet Office this time. The quasi-citations for the NY 2020 headline recipients are to my eye gushing and undignified.

[BEagle]

The award criteria for the AFC changed in 1993. Before then, many awards were made for meritorious service over a period of time (once described to me as 'A million hours on Chipmunks'), whereas after 1993 the AFC is only awarded for 'an act or acts of exemplary gallantry while flying, though not in active operations against the enemy'.

[NutLoose]

I voted to leave for a different relationship with the corrupt and crooked €U. However, I cannot stand Farage and there is no way he deserves a K for the vitriol and bile he has uttered in Brussels towards the €urophiles. He is a nasty piece of work, as are many of his followers who are only slightly left of the English Defence League.

As for those on the military list - well done all. I also think that those getting Commendations from CAS and the 3-star DCOMs should get a little more than just a certificate to hang on the downstairs toilet wall. How about a small “Commendation Pin” to be worn on No 1 and No 2 dress? These awards are given out to around 1 in 2,000, so they aren’t exactly common. Just to be clear, I’m not talking about a medal here, just a small pin about the size of a 5p piece.

Just bring back the good conduct stripes and use that

[Slow Biker]

A friend was once the armourer attached to the RAF Regt detachment at Salalah where he was awarded the BEM for Gallantry following an incident with a mortar bomb. I'm not sure if such an award is current or has been superseded by the QGM.

[alfred_the_great]

QGM is the level 3 award for gallantry not in the face of the enemy.

[Secret1]

A couple of guys in the dept served in Cyprus a long time ago and have knowledge of the case involving an RAF Police Cpl (WFS - one of 2 brothers in the same unit).
The story is that one evening whilst WFS was sat in the rear of an open top landrover and armed with a loaded weapon ready for action, he noted an individual run towards the vehicle and lob a grenade into it, so WFS promptly picked it up and threw it away, upon which it exploded a couple of seconds later... He was awarded the BEM for Gallantry, with a silver oak leaf emblem on the ribbon. His status as a 'mere' Cpl mean't he was not considered worthy of a 'higher class' award. He retired as a Warrant Officer in the mid 80s.
One of our chaps suggested that had it been a commissioned officer in the vehicle, he would have very likely have thrown himself out of it, leaving the fate of the driver and front seat passenger to God!

[Lima Juliet]

Just bring back the good conduct stripes and use that

I was thinking more of a small pin badge like the “Late Arrivals Club” or “Pathfinder” pin badges? The good conduct stripe looks a bit too ostentatious in my view? Also, I thought the LS&GCM replaced good conduct stripes?


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/563x750/7ddfa8f2_7c5a_4f86_b4da_44ecc07aca10_e72f69599b8f05283a09018 daa421683d0092a3c.jpeg

Late Arrivals Club pin badge on War Service Dress or Battle Dress (which was the only flying uniform it was approved for):

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/797x800/23e492df_704c_4163_aa3b_20d5e6ce1c53_89e2781aec1672f7d5e6fc6 5e78b1b0f4022afef.jpeg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x1491/74738fd6_5f73_40b3_8824_c3e9c526d55d_74723ebfc2854ca88f248ef 6d984a765c3fbf7e5.jpeg

Or the Pathfinder pin worn on Battle Dress or No 1:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/4a30bb62_2d03_4c55_8a63_a3574e285a31_4daff0d1752112ad6aeccec 489857363cdafd692.jpeg

[Lima Juliet]

This is what the RNZAF wear as a pin for a CAF’s Commendation:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x393/acbf2549_200b_4bb5_8e31_869401d6080c_788876ee11a16273c0de3a2 e679e273ca9b63e38.jpeg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1059x454/df8f9ad1_a30a_4df0_9369_08fec0ecbbf4_b66a541f94498ddce1483ee 3f1edccbb89b38509.jpeg

Or the same for the RAAF:


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/255x273/e8e3eb44_4630_42e3_afda_0a69c3bec3f3_038358a344a4166a7e4c40f 428f9ad09921779db.jpeg

Or for the Indian Air Force:


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x500/8336a3c3_5efd_40aa_85ad_0e959c752713_0db05fd49a6a08a2f35e068 d6c9bb6c7180207cf.jpeg
All of our uniforms are similar and so if they can do it then why not us?. The RAF Commendations come with nothing more than a certificate at present, which is a bit pants. A nice discrete pin badge would be a nice way of denoting exemplary service for those that don’t get a gong like QVRM, MBE, OBE, etc...

Wiggy and AT keep barking on about the Next Generation Air Force (#NGAF) on their Twitter feeds, isn’t this sort of modernisation exactly what we need? Millennials and Gen Zs thrive on public recognition according to most social scientists, then surely updating to something more modern, and a nod towards our pervious ethos, is the way ahead?

[Bob Viking]

I find the last sentence of your post odd. Are you saying that officers lack courage?

Maybe Charles Upham or Noel Chavasse might disagree.

BV

[langleybaston]

The single Good conduct badge [stripe] on the sergeant is anomalous ........ NCOs were deemed to be of good conduct. The highest rank entitled was LAC ..... my father wore one home from the war.

[Secret1]

[QUOTE=Bob Viking;10651696]I find the last sentence of your post odd. Are you saying that officers lack courage?

Colleague does have a sense of humour and we think it was evident when he spoke about the incident :cool:

[Could be the last?]

Picking up on previous comments with regards to citations, I would like to think that some may be an interesting read and outline the specifics of what personnel have done and why they have received their award! However, there seems to be a distinct lack of any documentation on the MoD web site or elsewhere on the web. Is there a ‘special place’ where they can be accessed or is there a requirement to submit a FOI request to get a read?

[t43562]

The local person doing civic deeds is very deserving of an award but probably reaches far fewer people in reality.

Famous sportsmen and artists have had their reward, however. They don't need any further recognition to help them do useful things or do things beyond "local." They are already well paid. Similarly with rich people or those of high rank. You can only say that civil servants can be paid less if you can give them status of some other form and that's useful.

Awards are not presents really but a way to empower without having to spend money - or at least I argue that's the most logical thing for them to be. In reality they are about politics of course.

[Easy Street]

Picking up on previous comments with regards to citations, I would like to think that some may be an interesting read and outline the specifics of what personnel have done and why they have received their award! However, there seems to be a distinct lack of any documentation on the MoD web site or elsewhere on the web. Is there a ‘special place’ where they can be accessed or is there a requirement to submit a FOI request to get a read?

See JSP761 (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/557785/JSP761_Part1.pdf) paras 6.12 to 6.18. In summary: for operational awards and non-operational gallantry or bravery awards including AFCs (currently published in spring and autumn) some information may be released through the press. For the Birthday and New Year lists, nothing will be provided. FOI legislation does not apply as the information is treated as ‘personal’. Even the recipient may be refused sight of the full recommendation under an exemption from the Data Protection Act (recipients only receive a drastically shortened citation). You may be able to get hold of recommendations once they have been released to the National Archives but this will obviously be years after the event. The only exceptions to all this are the VC and GC, for which full citations will be published.

Colleague does have a sense of humour and we think it was evident when he spoke about the incident :cool:


It didn’t translate very well to text, I’m afraid.

[MaxR]

It didn’t translate very well to text, I’m afraid.

Made me smile.

[alfred_the_great]

See JSP761 (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/557785/JSP761_Part1.pdf) paras 6.12 to 6.18. In summary: for operational awards and non-operational gallantry or bravery awards including AFCs (currently published in spring and autumn) some information may be released through the press. For the Birthday and New Year lists, nothing will be provided. FOI legislation does not apply as the information is treated as ‘personal’. Even the recipient may be refused sight of the full recommendation under an exemption from the Data Protection Act (recipients only receive a drastically shortened citation). You may be able to get hold of recommendations once they have been released to the National Archives but this will obviously be years after the event. The only exceptions to all this are the VC and GC, for which full citations will be published.



It didn’t translate very well to text, I’m afraid.

there's at least one GC for whom the citation has not been released...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Haberfield

[charliegolf]

there's at least one GC for whom the citation has not been released...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Haberfield

I deduce from the lack of detail that he didn't do much to deserve the GC at all. Probably a mistake.:E

CG

[Union Jack]

A friend was once the armourer attached to the RAF Regt detachment at Salalah where he was awarded the BEM for Gallantry following an incident with a mortar bomb. I'm not sure if such an award is current or has been superseded by the QGM.

QGM is the level 3 award for gallantry not in the face of the enemy.

The QGM was introduced in1974, as Alfred correctly says, to bring an end to the situation whereby an identical gallant action not deemed to merit the award of the GC or GM, hence the "third degree of gallantry", was previously recognised with a CBE for a Captain RN, an OBE for a Commander RN, an MBE for a Lieutenant Commander RN down to Fleet Chief Petty Officer**, and a BEM for anyone of lesser rank or rating. Other equivalent ranks are available for other Services.....:ok:

Jack

** Correct in 1974

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

Slow Biker

Was this person Dave P. ?


Aaron.

[Slow Biker]

Yes. Have exchanged Christmas cards for over 30 years, but nothing this year........

[Tankertrashnav]

Also, I thought the LS&GCM replaced good conduct stripes?

Not so, the RAF LS&GC has been in existence since the formation of the RAF. When I was dealing I once had one, a George V issue, named to a Serjeant (sic) Major, RAF. That must have been a very early award as that rank was superseded by Warrant Officer in the first year or two of the RAF's existence.

[langleybaston]

Not so, the RAF LS&GC has been in existence since the formation of the RAF. When I was dealing I once had one, a George V issue, named to a Serjeant (sic) Major, RAF. That must have been a very early award as that rank was superseded by Warrant Officer in the first year or two of the RAF's existence.

Serjeant major was an Appointment for a Warrant Officer Class I in the army and thus the RFC ....... thereafter I know not.
Curious to know more about superseding in the RAF.
Is there chapter and verse please?

[In the Great War there was institutional confusion re, warrant officer/ sergeant major, in that warrant officer class I [from May 1915] was the overarching RANK of many APPOINTMENTS titled sergeant major. Records, medal inscriptions, and headstones flip wildly from one to the other.]