Re-joiners be aware

[Bannock]

Gents and ladies
Anyone who re-joins the service after completing a pensionable engagement and took resettlement commutation will have to pay it back ( RC). The amount recovered per month is the difference between the full pension you would have received and the reduced pension after commutation untill age 55. In my case, that equates to 160 pound a month over the term of my new service (16 yrs). Even though I am not drawing a pension. Now depending on how long you are signed on for or at what age you re-engaged dictates how much you pay. In my case it equates to 30000 ish !! To put that into context, that means for not drawing a pension for 16 years you will forfeit 224000 in pension payments and pay 30k for the privilege.
This has been challenged twice now and dismissed by SPVA. As stated in their response, this reduction in pay ceases and pension restored if I leave.
Oh ! and by the way it took them 2 years to notify me and for a year, reduced my pay by 500 a month to recover missed payments.

Food for thought?

[weemonkey]

"Jemandem einen Bären aufbinden"

;)* Been taken for a ride?

[Just This Once...]

The message is, as it has always been, get proper pension advice and fully understand your pension before you consider a major career decision.

[heights good]

Gents and ladies
Anyone who re-joins the service after completing a pensionable engagement and took resettlement commutation will have to pay it back ( RC). The amount recovered per month is the difference between the full pension you would have received and the reduced pension after commutation untill age 55. In my case, that equates to 160 pound a month over the term of my new service (16 yrs). Even though I am not drawing a pension. Now depending on how long you are signed on for or at what age you re-engaged dictates how much you pay. In my case it equates to 30000 ish !! To put that into context, that means for not drawing a pension for 16 years you will forfeit 224000 in pension payments and pay 30k for the privilege.
This has been challenged twice now and dismissed by SPVA. As stated in their response, this reduction in pay ceases and pension restored if I leave.
Oh ! and by the way it took them 2 years to notify me and for a year, reduced my pay by 500 a month to recover missed payments.

Food for thought?

OUCH! Thats pretty dire and a great reason to NOT rejoin.

[ShyTorque]

The main reason I decided not to take up the RAF's offer to rejoin at the age of 42 was the negative effect it would have had on my pension, which i was advised would be "abated". Especially as it had been my decision to leave aged 38 in the first place.

[The B Word]

Errr, I don’t think you understand what Commutation is! This sees a reduction of monthly pension until age 55 to pay it back - regardless of whether you re-join, go FTRS/ADC or do something else. The thing that is affecting you as a rejoiner is the abatement rules, which is the same for all public sector pensions. It’s a HM Treasury rule. Also, for those on AFPS05, that rejoin regular or FTRS/ADC, then abatement is 100% of the EDP (ie. you get no payments until you retire again).

So as JTO points out - make sure you read up on this or speak to people like the Forces Pension Society if you can’t be bothered to read it for yourself. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pensions-and-compensation-for-veterans

[Bannock]

I know exactly what is affecting me. I am putting it out there because the re-joiners I have spoken to, do not...yet

[Training Risky]

Rejoin? Who would do that?! The idealism and goodwill of my youth was spent long ago during Telic.

I have been out 4 years now and the grass is 100% greener. Why would I risk my decent pension for a reduced Service offering on a super-MOB?

If the RAF of the 80s-90s was brought back then I would consider it for 5 mins....

[heights good]

Rejoin? Who would do that?! The idealism and goodwill of my youth was spent long ago during Telic.

I have been out 4 years now and the grass is 100% greener. Why would I risk my decent pension for a reduced Service offering on a super-MOB?

If the RAF of the 80s-90s was brought back then I would consider it for 5 mins....

it depends what job you are being offered....

[VinRouge]

it depends what job you are being offered....
Gate guard at High Wycombe as an SO2?

[Richard Dangle]

Service men and women can be curious beasts when it comes to matters of money. Despite being generally smart and aware, some (by no means all) can be over-confident about financial affairs, whilst being blindly unaware of very important issues. Why anybody would make a major lifestyle choice (like rejoining) without being 100% fully briefed on all the implications for one's personal wealth and income is beyond my ken...yet it happens. Go figure :confused:

So much this...

The message is, as it has always been, get proper pension advice and fully understand your pension before you consider a major career decision.

...with the rider..."from a qualified and regulated source."

[gijoe]

As always, Caveat Emptor

[Jambo Jet]

Can anyone explain this a bit more to me? From what I’ve understood, if you leave at your IPP and take a fully commuted gratuity, you repay this monthly on re-joining. Are you further disadvantaged when you leave later on compared with if you hadn’t left/rejoined?

Its pretty simple really. Abatement is assessed on rejoining OR promotion only. So rejoining is not a career push. ie consider carefully any promotion offer!

How much are they offering when you rejoin?

(a) If your pay when you left (adjusted for CPI) is more than your new rate of pay PLUS your uncommuted pension value then there will be abatement so that your pension is reduced so you don’t get paid more.

(b) If you commuted some then you will pay ALL the commuted value back - because you’ve borrowed some of your future pension at a monthly rate. Even if the delta in (a) is less than 5k (11-6 in my example)

Advice : Don’t rejoin as PAS, as Fg Pay is not Pay in the calculation. Then once your back in, apply for PAS.

[alfred_the_great]

Its pretty simple really. Abatement is assessed on rejoining OR promotion only. So rejoining is not a career push. ie consider carefully any promotion offer!

How much are they offering when you rejoin?

(a) If your pay when you left (adjusted for CPI) is more than your new rate of pay PLUS your uncommuted pension value then there will be abatement so that your pension is reduced so you don’t get paid more.

(b) If you commuted some then you will pay ALL the commuted value back - because you’ve borrowed some of your future pension at a monthly rate. Even if the delta in (a) is less than 5k (11-6 in my example)

Advice : Don’t rejoin as PAS, as Fg Pay is not Pay in the calculation. Then once your back in, apply for PAS.

genuine question - what happens if you re-enter and your putative pay is higher than when you left, what happens there?

[Lima Juliet]

Alfred, your pension is 100% abated and you get paid the full amount of pay (even if it’s more than you earned before). The whole rationale for abating pension by the Treasury is so they don’t pay you more for doing the job at the same rank, or lower. However, if you are promoted to a higher rank they are content to pay you at that rank.

[alfred_the_great]

Alfred, your pension is 100% abated and you get paid the full amount of pay (even if it’s more than you earned before). The whole rationale for abating pension by the Treasury is so they don’t pay you more for doing the job at the same rank, or lower. However, if you are promoted to a higher rank they are content to pay you at that rank.

Thanks. I presume whilst the pension is abated, you are also accruing new pension as well - i.e. when you were leave again, your new pension would be higher?

[gijoe]

I think there may be some confusion with FTRS and Rejoin here.

If in receipt of a pension it is stopped on rejoining - simple. There is then a repayment due IF resettlement commuation was taken (APFS75 stuff) because you are not resettling - the MOD has given you your old job back.

FTRS pay is capped at the level that you left at - you cannot earn more than on the last day of service.
If in receipt of a pension then that is used to make up your salary and the MOD tops up to the level that you left - ie you are paying yourself.
Can't see the attraction.
Who wins? Senior officers that take on the responsbility of a junior.
Creating a load of clockwatchers and contract readers...Discuss.

[Lima Juliet]

gijoe

Sorry that is incorrect. You can keep pension on rejoining on AFPS75, however abatement is likely (unless rejoining at a much lower rank). Also, the pay is not abated, it is the pension that is. Your post seems to have that 180 out? Finally, you are not paying yourself, that is nonsense.

PS. Also rejoining if over 55 on AFPS05 works too as then it is a pension and not an EDP.

[Lima Juliet]

Thanks. I presume whilst the pension is abated, you are also accruing new pension as well - i.e. when you were leave again, your new pension would be higher?

Oh yes, and also on AFPS15 which is ‘career averaging’ at 1/47th, which for a rejoiner is good news.

[VinRouge]

gijoe

Sorry that is incorrect. You can keep pension on rejoining on AFPS75, however abatement is likely (unless rejoining at a much lower rank). Also, the pay is not abated, it is the pension that is. Your post seems to have that 180 out? Finally, you are not paying yourself, that is nonsense.


Second Career = New Salary + Pension

Rejoin/stay in past IPP.... Salary = Same salary as you were on before.

IF NEW SALARY > MOD SALARY
{EXIT MOB AT IPP}
//Cash pension, pay off mortgage etc

ELSEIF
{EXIT MOB AT IPP}
//No guard duty at HW

[VinRouge]

Oh yes, and also on AFPS15 which is ‘career averaging’ at 1/47th, which for a rejoiner is good news.

If you can afford the tax bill...

[Lima Juliet]

Second Career = New Salary + Pension

Rejoin/stay in past IPP.... Salary = Same salary as you were on before.

IF NEW SALARY > MOD SALARY
{EXIT MOB AT IPP}
//Cash pension, pay off mortgage etc

ELSEIF
{EXIT MOB AT IPP}
//No guard duty at HW

Not necessarily, if you left a while back then wages have been going up slower than RPI/CPI. So for some it could be a 5-10% pay rise and you don’t pay National Insurance on the pension bits you keep. Also, if you were Wg Cdr or above, or PAS, and come back into the normal Career Stream as a Flt Lt or Sqn Ldr then the new RRP(F) (used to be specialist pay (flying)) could see you being paid up to £20k per year extra.

This Guard Duty at High Wycombe also makes me laugh! “Did the nasty man ask you to cover a temporary shortfall in the MPGS, ah, didums!” :{

[Lima Juliet]

If you can afford the tax bill...

Incorrect (again). The current annual allowance bills are being generated by the legacy AFPS75 portions. If you leave and rejoin that AFPS75 has crystallised and so will have no effect on annual allowance. Now run along and find something else to incorrectly snipe at...:ok:

[VinRouge]

This Guard Duty at High Wycombe also makes me laugh! “Did the nasty man ask you to cover a temporary shortfall in the MPGS, ah, didums!” :{

Sorry, too busy enjoying decent T and C and being valued by my employer, whilst being able to defend the line as a workforce from nonsense such as the above to laugh. It saddens me tbh. It does show how far the MoD has degraded as a place of work that constant cutbacks, erosion of T and C and workplace conditions mean that this is the supposed collective mindset. Which I don't think it is. Its a shame that more "Nasty Men" aren't falling on swords or insisting on cutting output, instead insisting of keeping their gob shut and climbing the greasy pole.

As to pay rises, 20K up on previous salary, no claims that the significant extra perks (gym, health insurance, free dental, cycle to work) are a reason to abate salary/constrain pay rises and 5% up on CPI from when I moved. And no longer getting shafted by negative changes to T and C that in the mob, you have absolutely no ability to defend. It doesn't get away from MoD getting manpower for much less than what they would have to if they gotten a-another in off the street to fill the role. Each JPAN is funded through the resource budget, a set amount dependent upon rank and role; it is purely spiteful to remove something that has been earned, considering that if employed by someone else, the benefit would remain untouched.

Incorrect (again). The current annual allowance bills are being generated by the legacy AFPS75 portions. If you leave and rejoin that AFPS75 has crystallised and so will have no effect on annual allowance. Now run along and find something else to incorrectly snipe at...:ok:

So you are saying that no one under AFPS15 is liable to an annual allowance tax bill then? I wasnt talking about the bill you would incur as a result of legacy 75, I was talking what the swine will fiddle you out of, for your 15 contribution if you rejoin. Genuine question. I thought it was only MPs that managed to accrue 2.5% a year of final salary as a pension for only 13% salary sacrifice and be seemingly untouched by GAD....

[Lima Juliet]

Dude, you obviously never did guard duty at Linton on Ouse in the late 80s with pick axe handles then! Also, I can recall doing guard at Winnipeg whilst the engineers slept and I was the reserve crew on the sweeper Herc. It happens, it’s a temporary arrangement, and if people are going to get seriously bent out of shape about a temporary once-or-twice in a career ask then maybe they aren’t made out to be part of the military team?

Yup, it’s the jump in pension 2 years in rank on AFPS75 that is hammering most people due to the way the ‘rank in the last 2 years calculation’ is made. On AFPS05 it might hit folks at OF-4 or above, but for AFPS15 then this is unlikely to be a factor mainly due to the career average calculation. If you can be bothered you can work it out with this step by step guide: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/step-by-step-guide-for-the-afps-annual-allowance-notification-letter-for-tax-year-201718

Don’t forget that pension tax is not a military thing and if you are provisioning for a pension to pay the same amount as AFPS then the same tax rules will apply if you are a UK resident.

[Jambo Jet]

Thanks. I presume whilst the pension is abated, you are also accruing new pension as well - i.e. when you were leave again, your new pension would be higher?

If you re-join with a 75 pension in payment then you keep it (if it is abated it will return to full value when you retire for the second time) and you start a brand new pension on 15 terms from the day you re-join. This new pension will, if you serve to 60, be a brand new pension to add to your 75 one. If you leave before 60 (even by a couple of weeks) then your second pension doesn't get paid to you until state pension age.

This latter point will be of interest to those who re-joined on 05 second pension terms and who then were forced onto 15 under the NEM, and the associated NEM alignment offer. They needed to serve to 60 to realise the 15 portion of their new pension. Now that the Government have said that all discriminated against AFPS members will revert back to the scheme they were on before 1 Apr 2015 then they can leave at age 55 with a full second AFPS05 pension at age 55. I guess they will have to PVR at 55 though as they have signed on to MEOS 60 by the NEM offer, but when they do they will receive a second pension at 55. Be interesting to see if all those re-joiners leave at 55 or stay on until 60!

Most re-joiners on PAS terms will be much worse off with this reversion to 05, albeit they will be able to claim their second pension 5 years earlier than planned. 55 is young enough to spend 10 years doing something else if they were that way inclined!

[the_worrier]

Please bear with me...I left the Service with an AFPS75 immediate pension and elected to take full commutation. If I did re-join I will automatically join AFPS15, as I had no transitional protection during switch over from AFPS75 to AFPS15.

On re-joining, assuming my pay is even slightly higher than it was when I retired (at same rank it will be due to annual rises for inflation), I will have to re-pay the commutation lump sum I received when I originally retired?

This amount is based on the difference between my original annual pension award and the amount I receive annually having taken full commutation? I will pay this for the duration of my new service until I have repaid the commutation lump sum or re-retire? What about the amount I have already 'forfeited' in the years between retiring and re-joining? (i.e. on retirement my pension award was £16,000 p.a. and after full commutation I receive £13,500 p.a, meaning I have 'forfeited' £2,500 per year for the years since I retired as 'payment' for the commutation lump sum I received).

I am contemplating re-joining but the loss of this (commuted) £13,500 p.a. pension and the need to re-pay the commutation gratuity (even assuming the amount already 're-paid' is taken off/into account) makes for a very unfavourable situation. Can the Armed Forces hope to achieve much success with recruiting ex-regulars back in?!

[alfred_the_great]

Second Career = New Salary + Pension

Rejoin/stay in past IPP.... Salary = Same salary as you were on before.

IF NEW SALARY > MOD SALARY
{EXIT MOB AT IPP}
//Cash pension, pay off mortgage etc

ELSEIF
{EXIT MOB AT IPP}
//No guard duty at HW

You’ve missed some other factors:

Doing stuff that civvies don’t.
Serving your country.
Enjoying Service culture.

[jayteeto]

I had an assessment done by Glasgow before signing back as FTRS. They can tell you financial implications

[the_worrier]

I had an assessment done by Glasgow before signing back as FTRS. They can tell you financial implications

Presumably accessed by calling the JPAC?

[gijoe]

gijoe

Sorry that is incorrect. You can keep pension on rejoining on AFPS75, however abatement is likely (unless rejoining at a much lower rank). Also, the pay is not abated, it is the pension that is. Your post seems to have that 180 out? Finally, you are not paying yourself, that is nonsense.

PS. Also rejoining if over 55 on AFPS05 works too as then it is a pension and not an EDP.

Er....wrong. There is no way you will carry on receiving an AFPS75 IP on rejoin - no way.

I really can’t be arse’d arguing any more.

[Lima Juliet]

Er....wrong. There is no way you will carry on receiving an AFPS75 IP on rejoin - no way.

I really can’t be arse’d arguing any more.



Complete and utter hoop!!

If you retired at an immediate pension point (IPP) on AFPS75 then you will have a pension in payment. You used to, before Apr 05, have to leave for up to 31 days before you re-joined, but after that date the AFPS75 pension scheme closed. So you join the very next day. If you are on AFPS75/05 the same applies but you can’t keep the AFPS05 EDP portion as that is always 100% abated. If you are on AFPS75/15 then you have to leave for 30 days or they will link service. There are also some oddities around transitional protection (all in the link below). Now, if you left at a higher rank than the one that you re-joined at then you will keep the difference between the 2 salaries in pension with the pension being abated accordingly. If you left some time ago and then rejoined at the same rank, then because inflation has been going up faster than the AFPRB pay rises over the past 9 years or so, then you could also keep a part of the pension. Further, if re-join as FTRS then the difference between Regular full-time X-Factor (14.5%) and Limited Commitment (5%) or Home Commitment (0%) can also see individuals keeping parts of their AFPS75 pension. Finally, if you left as PAS and then re-join at the same rank on Career Spine then you keep a lot of your AFPS75 pension plus you get up to £20k of RRP(F) on top as it’s not abated. I know of ex-Level 35 PAS Sqn Ldrs that have rejoined and their combined pay is £63k (basic pay), they keep £23k of their AFPS75 and then get £20k of RRP(F) Tier 2 Level 6 - total £106k per year and they are earning a new AFPS15 pension too.

It’s all in MMP116 if you don’t believe it: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/820103/20160119_MMP116_Re-employment_booklet_MMP_116_Accessible__2_.pdf

I know this works as I’ve left, and rejoined, with an AFPS75 in payment. I now keep about £6,000 of the pension (the rest is abated) having come back to the same rank after 6 years. The abatement will come off, and it will be index-linked, when I finally retire at age 60 and also an extra AFPS15 pension will also be paid. So be a good chap and don’t spread fake news, will you?

[Lima Juliet]

Please bear with me...I left the Service with an AFPS75 immediate pension and elected to take full commutation. If I did re-join I will automatically join AFPS15, as I had no transitional protection during switch over from AFPS75 to AFPS15.

On re-joining, assuming my pay is even slightly higher than it was when I retired (at same rank it will be due to annual rises for inflation), I will have to re-pay the commutation lump sum I received when I originally retired?

This amount is based on the difference between my original annual pension award and the amount I receive annually having taken full commutation? I will pay this for the duration of my new service until I have repaid the commutation lump sum or re-retire? What about the amount I have already 'forfeited' in the years between retiring and re-joining? (i.e. on retirement my pension award was £16,000 p.a. and after full commutation I receive £13,500 p.a, meaning I have 'forfeited' £2,500 per year for the years since I retired as 'payment' for the commutation lump sum I received).

I am contemplating re-joining but the loss of this (commuted) £13,500 p.a. pension and the need to re-pay the commutation gratuity (even assuming the amount already 're-paid' is taken off/into account) makes for a very unfavourable situation. Can the Armed Forces hope to achieve much success with recruiting ex-regulars back in?!

You need to remember that commutation is effectively a low interest loan to bolster your tax free lump sum, so if your abated pension is less than this amount then they will take it back from your pay. So in your case, if you are 100% abated then they will claw back that commutation loan from your pay. It’s a loan and so you must pay it back.

Don’t forget that ‘the package’ for being in the military is much more than the monthly pay - by far the biggest portion is the non-contributory pension that would cost the average Sqn Ldr around £3,500/month after tax. So you need to factor that into your decision process when you do your sums. :ok:

[Lima Juliet]

If you re-join with a 75 pension in payment then you keep it (if it is abated it will return to full value when you retire for the second time) and you start a brand new pension on 15 terms from the day you re-join. This new pension will, if you serve to 60, be a brand new pension to add to your 75 one. If you leave before 60 (even by a couple of weeks) then your second pension doesn't get paid to you until state pension age.

This latter point will be of interest to those who re-joined on 05 second pension terms and who then were forced onto 15 under the NEM, and the associated NEM alignment offer. They needed to serve to 60 to realise the 15 portion of their new pension. Now that the Government have said that all discriminated against AFPS members will revert back to the scheme they were on before 1 Apr 2015 then they can leave at age 55 with a full second AFPS05 pension at age 55. I guess they will have to PVR at 55 though as they have signed on to MEOS 60 by the NEM offer, but when they do they will receive a second pension at 55. Be interesting to see if all those re-joiners leave at 55 or stay on until 60!

Most re-joiners on PAS terms will be much worse off with this reversion to 05, albeit they will be able to claim their second pension 5 years earlier than planned. 55 is young enough to spend 10 years doing something else if they were that way inclined!

Jambo. One small addition. If you leave under AFPS15 terms between 55 and 60 then you can take an actuarily reduced pension. This can be calculated on the online pension calculator. Beware though, if you were getting an AFPS15 pension of say £20k at age 60, then at 55 the reduction would be roughly 50% to £10k. But it is possible to retire between 55 and 60 without having to wait for an AFPS15 pension. :ok:

[Sandy Parts]

for gijoe - I can safely say you CAN receive (some) AFPS75 IP even after re-joining. As others have said, due to Military Salary not keeping up with CPI while I've been out, my expected full pension abatement actually became a £30 per month AFPS75 pension payment. The maths is that Re-joining Wage + £30 AFPS75 IP = less than my wage on initial retirement ADJUSTED FOR CPI over the intervening years. Just got to survive and serve to 60 to get the nicely building AFPS15 second pension. While we are talking about 'things you might not know about pensions' - important to realise there is a 2 year qualifying period for AFPS15. So if you do re-join and leave again inside 2 years, you get nowt for that period of service at state retirement age.

[Grumpy106]

Would an AFPS15 pension be abated? I'm approaching 60 and if I left, got my 15 pension and then re-joined as FTRS (age limit 65) would I still get my full pension, as I seem to recall reading the AFPS15 cannot be abated?

[ForcesPensionSociety]

You're right, AFPS 15 pensions are not abated.

[Jambo Jet]

Would an AFPS15 pension be abated? I'm approaching 60 and if I left, got my 15 pension and then re-joined as FTRS (age limit 65) would I still get my full pension, as I seem to recall reading the AFPS15 cannot be abated?

Grumpy 15 pensions are not abated.

However, you are approaching 60 therefore you won't be on AFPS 15 unless you were younger than 52 years old on 1 April 2019. (Protected rights when 15 introduced given to those aged 45 or older on 1 April 2012). So as you are approaching 60 I suspect that you will on retirement be entitled to a purely AFPS 75 or AFPS 05 pension, which if you rejoin could be abated!

[Richard Dangle]

Blimey, getting further work with the mob sure appears complicated!

My last job interview (conducted by text and coincidentally, two years ago yesterday - I'm still there :)) went something like this...

Boss Man "can you do xxxx for us?"
Me "maybe, what'll it pay?"
Boss Man "xxxx"
Me "OK, when do I start"
Boss Man "meeting in 30 minutes, join by Hangouts"
Me "OK"

Nobody abated nuffink

Aircrew, engineers, and many other military types are (nearly always) amazingly talented people. There is a wonderful, rich and varied world out there, desperate for your talents and skills - maybe give it a shot?

[Sandy Parts]

Dangle - a lot of us did and enjoyed it for many years. Now some of us are back doing what we enjoyed even more....Horses for courses, each to their own etc etc

[Richard Dangle]

Absolutely! Wherever the journey takes you! Just enjoy it and always appreciate your own value and opportunities.

[Grumpy106]

Grumpy 15 pensions are not abated.

However, you are approaching 60 therefore you won't be on AFPS 15 unless you were younger than 52 years old on 1 April 2019. (Protected rights when 15 introduced given to those aged 45 or older on 1 April 2012). So as you are approaching 60 I suspect that you will on retirement be entitled to a purely AFPS 75 or AFPS 05 pension, which if you rejoin could be abated!
I left the Regulars in 2013 on AFPS75 with an immediate pension. I have been FTRS initially on RFPS05 for 18 months and then AFPS15 from 15 onwards. Both parts of the new pension are payable at age 60, so by my reckoning I can leave at 60 and then get another FTRS job at 60+1day and get an unabated pension for 5 years.

[Just This Once...]

I'd take professional advice Grumpy as I suspect that is not what would happen.

[Thereismore]

There are unfortunately so many reasons why attracting talent back is stacked against the services; this is just another. The marketplace of people is highly fluid especially when it comes to high quality ones.
I have been approached several times and looked into it seriously one one occasion (on a part time basis) but the offering is so far below the competition that it barley makes a shortlist even if you take an altruistic element/ being part of something/ giving back into account.
It doesn’t matter what the treasury rules about pensions are : asking someone to hand in some family income so that they can take a job is a really bad start.

[Haraka]

Two things to appreciate when considering rejoining after a few years "out"
Firstly, inevitably, the Service will have moved on.
Secondly, so will you as well .

[jayteeto]

Late answer, but yes, contacted JPAC