Flybe FO Pay

[thelowflyer]

Hi all,

I've been lucky enough to be accepted on to the Flybe MPL scheme with L3 and now have the task of organising the funding. I believe my route will be to organise a secured loan, and so that I can present a potential lender with a well thought out repayment structure, ideally I need to know how much I am likely to earn in years 1-5 with Flybe. I've had a search online for this but not sure how accurate the info is I've been finding. If anyone is able to give a solid estimate on year 1 and average increases thereafter including sector pay etc I'd really appreciate it!

Cheers!

[Bhavrageaverage]

Hi all,

I've been lucky enough to be accepted on to the Flybe MPL scheme with L3 and now have the task of organising the funding. I believe my route will be to organise a secured loan, and so that I can present a potential lender with a well thought out repayment structure, ideally, I need to know how much I am likely to earn in years 1-5 with Flybe. I've had a search online for this but not sure how accurate the info is I've been finding. If anyone is able to give a solid estimate on year 1 and average increases thereafter including sector pay etc I'd really appreciate it!

Cheers!

You should be able to find a rough estimate of salaries on Glassdoor where they have written via submissions from anonymous pilots 'The typical Flybe First Officer salary is £28,973. First Officer salaries at Flybe can range from £28,648 - £36,428. This estimate is based upon 3 Flybe First Officer salary report(s) provided by employees or estimated based upon statistical methods. When factoring in bonuses and additional compensation, a First Officer at Flybe can expect to make an average total pay of £28,973 . See all First Officer salaries to learn how this stacks up in the market.'

Hope this helps

Bare in mind that a lot of pilots of any airline isn't allowed to publically display their earnings and bonuses

[LanceHudson]

Hi,

I did look at applying for this scheme too so I have done a little research with regards to pay. As you'll be flying the Q400 the pay scales can be found here: https://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Flybe_(Turboprop) and are up-to-date.

So starting at £29,000 and rising to £50,000 year 11 fo. Captains (probably likely to get after 6/7 years, I'm not too sure) start at £70,000 and rises to £82,000.

Edit: Seems to have been cleared out. Can use this: https://web.archive.org/web/20190929171928/https://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Flybe_(Turboprop)

[thelowflyer]

Thanks, appreciate the info! :)

[MrZed]

Basic is £29k, however there are decent working day off / nightstop / fda payments which take you nearer £35k+. Each year your basic goes up as well.

Side note...

Personally I would not go to L3 - whilst Flybe (and other airlines) like integrated schools as its all under one roof they charge around 60k more than they should, and it isn't the be all and end all. Despite being expensive in the past, the genuine support and good will that came your way isn't as strong unless you are coughing up excess cash since L3 arrived on the scene. Lengthy delays (what's the point in doing integrated when you will be delayed?), some questionable attitudes towards cadets and poor organisation all contribute to my opinion - I am not alone in this boat who have experienced their nonsense.

All the best! 👍

[BombasticAce]

Sorry to diverge from the topic, but if one had the option of Flybe at a local base verses Ryanair but having to up sticks, for a low hour newly qualified pilot what route would you lean more towards?

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Hi Bombastic,

for what it's worth I've worked for Ryanair and sat alongside many colleagues to my right. I've seen many very good candidates who came in via a cadetship with no airline experience but would always feel slightly more comfortable with one who had "served some time" on TP's. I've also had conversations with Dispatchers looking for their first job on the flight deck and have always given them one piece of advice - "If you can then fly a turboprop first". My main reason for that was that WHEN an airline the size of FR goes pop there will be around 3000 FO's with the same rating as you UNLESS you have experience on another type in which case you will have a slight edge. I'm not sure how this helps you but you can replace the term TP for any other type as in small jet. Just my own opinion of course.

[Citationcj2]

Hi Bombastic,

for what it's worth I've worked for Ryanair and sat alongside many colleagues to my right. I've seen many very good candidates who came in via a cadetship with no airline experience but would always feel slightly more comfortable with one who had "served some time" on TP's. I've also had conversations with Dispatchers looking for their first job on the flight deck and have always given them one piece of advice - "If you can then fly a turboprop first". My main reason for that was that WHEN an airline the size of FR goes pop there will be around 3000 FO's with the same rating as you UNLESS you have experience on another type in which case you will have a slight edge. I'm not sure how this helps you but you can replace the term TP for any other type as in small jet. Just my own opinion of course.

The day an FR goes bust is an end of aviation, or when robots take over..It will never happen.

They used to say back in the day when there was no jobs, if you start on the props you'll remain on the props, but this has since changed. Nowadays TurboProp experience gives you zero to no advantage in the recruitment world.. And TP guys would give their souls to fly a jet.

[Salexandrou]

Hi,

I am going for the FlyBe MPL program assessment with L3, and I am wondering how the assessment is?
I will appreciate if you can give me a brief description, or how to prepare

thank you

[rotorwills]

Having a great deal of commercial experience prior to my aviation roles, the Ryan Air business model is the most stable on the world of aviation supply to the traveling public. Not admiring them, but you got to give credit when it's due, not that they require any credit.

[MaverickPrime]

You’re never too big to fail, bigger they are harder they fall, pride is more fatal than death, never say never, so on and so forth..... Ryanair could fail someday you just never know in this industry or life for that matter.

The salary at flybe may not be as much, but they cover everything like uniforms, training, hotels, flights, medical, PHI, LOLI.... If you work at ryanair you need fo factor in the possibility of renting and food if you are going to commute, by the time you factor that in, the FR salary may not look too good anymore!

You take whatever job you can get to get started in the industry, once you’re in, look very carefully at where you want to go in life and what your priorities are. You need to look at the whole package any potential job offers you, not just the headline salary or what the equipment is.

[flocci_non_faccio]

Sorry to diverge from the topic, but if one had the option of Flybe at a local base verses Ryanair but having to up sticks, for a low hour newly qualified pilot what route would you lean more towards?

Ryanair every single time. I wouldn't give good odds that Flybe will still be here this time next year. A Dash type rating is utterly useless, whereas the 737 is obviously a very useful rating to have on your licence.

[Citationcj2]

Ryanair every single time. I wouldn't give good odds that Flybe will still be here this time next year. A Dash type rating is utterly useless, whereas the 737 is obviously a very useful rating to have on your licence.

I would have to disagree with you there. 737 rating at the moment is not a good rating, with Airbus rating being worth the gold and the prospects for 737 guys aren't good. Market is flooded with 737 pilots with all looking for a job and clearly any 737 jobs out there will be given to preferably rated pilots.

Dash rating is very strong rating too, the short haul business is booming, time to command is quick and the job is rewarding.
Also bear in mind that money is not that different in comparison to RYR. The new guys in RYR are on the lowest possible salary to fly a jet aircraft, and as longest they are accepting those conditions, the salary and T&C will decline even further. As its the case with Buzz.

[Meester proach]

Nah,
Take the 737....may be a bit of a lull now but there are 10000s of them around the world. There’s not as many dash’s.

Whats more if you want to go 787 or such like you need Boeing experience , not TP

[VariablePitchP]

https://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Ryanair

Take a good look at this and the argument is settled really. Money wise you are effectively paying 25K a year for the privilege of flying a Dash 8 over Ryanair. Same pay I’d still take the jet job as you’ll get hours faster, can bounce into TUI etc whenever you like.

Ryanair will treat you like garbage, yes totally agree. But it’s a fixed pattern roster and will have you in the LHS or a better company pretty sharpish. FlyBe may be a bit more fluffy and nicer to you as an employee, but you really are paying for it.

Turboprop vs jet hours though? No one really cares, just as likely to get DEP onto the 380/777 somewhere like BA or Emirates with either, they just care that it’s ZFT eligible.

[jonesy05]

Basic is 29, some bases do a lot of night stops, this boosts pay packet nicely. Expect up to 36-38k in Year One if you night stop regularly.

[thelowflyer]

Ryanair every single time. I wouldn't give good odds that Flybe will still be here this time next year. A Dash type rating is utterly useless, whereas the 737 is obviously a very useful rating to have on your licence.

Flybe have been bought over by a consortium including Virgin Atlantic and will be rebranded as Virgin Connect this year- the days of Flybe being at financial risk should be long behind them now, particularly given they will be moving to a model connecting regional routes with the current Virgin long haul.

[thelowflyer]

Flybe have been bought over by a consortium including Virgin Atlantic and will be rebranded as Virgin Connect this year- the days of Flybe being at financial risk should be long behind them now, particularly given they will be moving to a model connecting regional routes with the current Virgin long haul.

Jeez, looks like I spoke too soon :/ not a good thing to see after just being accepted by them.... glad I haven't parted with any cash yet!

[LanceHudson]

Jeez, looks like I spoke too soon :/ not a good thing to see after just being accepted by them.... glad I haven't parted with any cash yet!

This is not good news at all. I do think you should seriously be considering whether or not to take this route, assuming they get past these talks, especially as this is an MPL.

I am going to withdraw my application with FTE for this very reason...

[thelowflyer]

This is not good news at all. I do think you should seriously be considering whether or not to take this route, assuming they get past these talks, especially as this is an MPL.

I am going to withdraw my application with FTE for this very reason...
You're absolutely right, especially when my parents are using their house as the security for the finances...
I've got a call with L3 tomorrow so will see what information/assurances (if any) they can provide me. As much as this is very disappointing for myself and obviously for you also to have so much doubt cast over what should be a fantastic opportunity, it must be sickening as a current employee for them. I can only hope they resolve the situation... and quickly.

[magicmick]

Sadly L3 will not be able to offer you any guarantees, your ATPL written exam results and any flying training that you do in an aircraft can count towards CPL and MEIR qualification if Flybe collapse and you can transfer over to CPL and MEIR training but a Flybe MPL is useless anywhere other than Flybe. Obviously if Flybe collapse and you transfer over to CPL training you will have no airline place on completion of the course and hundreds of experienced and rated Flybe pilots will be out there looking for work ahead of you.



Unfortunately the public are now aware of Flybe’s troubles so will be steering clear of the company regardless of how rescue talks go, they will book flights with other more financially stable airlines which will add to Flybe’s woes. If you’re looking to start a Flybe MPL now then I would be extremely surprised if Flybe is still around when you qualify.



Please consider your next move extremely seriously as your parents house is up for grabs if you cannot pay back the loan and do not wear ‘training blinkers.’ L3 will not care about your parents property one little bit and will make all sorts of non-promises that will not commit them to anything to get your money.



I genuinely do not envy your position and I wish you well in whatever you decide but please be objective and include your parents in the decision making process.

[ShamrockF]

I would caution against doing an MPL course in general,but especially with a financially unstable airline like FlyBE. You have very limited options if you need to change jobs with less than 1,500 hours, and even less still if you struggle with training.

[BombasticAce]

Welp now Flybe looks like its going under guess it only leaves me with RYR! Does anyone have any insight as to approximately how much a YR1 FO based at Stansted could earn after basic+flight pay etc?

[Honeyman5123]

Hello "thelowflyer".

I finished training with L3 last year and the delays are pouring. Furthermore with the state of Flybe nowadays I woulnd`t recommend no one to start an MPL Training with them/L3.
What I advise you is to go to spain/italy and see some schools that are getting their students trained really fast. Just as an example I had over 30 colleagues that changed school and finished faster than me whilst their training cost was half of what we were paying. This is just my 2 cents but your next moves will be delicate and important. Choose wisely.

[thelowflyer]

Hello "thelowflyer".

I finished training with L3 last year and the delays are pouring. Furthermore with the state of Flybe nowadays I woulnd`t recommend no one to start an MPL Training with them/L3.
What I advise you is to go to spain/italy and see some schools that are getting their students trained really fast. Just as an example I had over 30 colleagues that changed school and finished faster than me whilst their training cost was half of what we were paying. This is just my 2 cents but your next moves will be delicate and important. Choose wisely.
I am genuinely moving towards removing my application if I'm honest but out of interest - when you say delays, do these generally apply to the MPL/airline cadets too? I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that generally the MPL students take priority to keep the airlines happy, whilst the ATPL students may take the hit when it comes to delays. Also, when you say delay, how long do you mean? If there were delays of say 3/4 weeks between stages I could live with that but if it's more than that and takes the training over 2 years, I would definitely not be keen. Also, I take your point about not recommending an MPL with flybe's situation - I was also of that opinion until I found out they had been bought over by connect airways and rebranding, to me that meant they were moving forward and had financial stability but I guess that is not the case :/
Cheers & congrats on finishing the course!

[LanceHudson]

thelowflyer - did you call L3 today?

if so, I’d be interested to see what chat they gave you...

[thelowflyer]

thelowflyer - did you call L3 today?

if so, I’d be interested to see what chat they gave you...
I did, they know no more than what has been reported (as expected). The general vibe I got is that they wish to proceed with the process as normal until any more news is heard on the contrary, however I won't be giving them any cash until I know what the state of play is. I also asked what would happen should they recover the situation at the moment but go bust prior to completion of the MPL. Wasn't given a firm answer but they are going to find out, the presumption being that I would be transferred onto the ATPL wings programme. At the end of the day they want to be paid so they aren't going to discourage people from continuing if they can avoid it.

[Honeyman5123]

I am genuinely moving towards removing my application if I'm honest but out of interest - when you say delays, do these generally apply to the MPL/airline cadets too? I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that generally the MPL students take priority to keep the airlines happy, whilst the ATPL students may take the hit when it comes to delays. Also, when you say delay, how long do you mean? If there were delays of say 3/4 weeks between stages I could live with that but if it's more than that and takes the training over 2 years, I would definitely not be keen. Also, I take your point about not recommending an MPL with flybe's situation - I was also of that opinion until I found out they had been bought over by connect airways and rebranding, to me that meant they were moving forward and had financial stability but I guess that is not the case :/
Cheers & congrats on finishing the course!

Well I have no information regarding MPL`s but regarding CPL`s I waited 6 months for MEP/IR and 1 month for IR. It was obnoxious and I was paying rent every month.

[Antonio Montana]

Welp now Flybe looks like its going under guess it only leaves me with RYR! Does anyone have any insight as to approximately how much a YR1 FO based at Stansted could earn after basic+flight pay etc?
You would be very lucky to get STN base, more likely when Ryanair start recruitment again, it will be for LaudaMotion, Buzz and Malta Air. I don't have the details, but you would be incredibly lucky to get a UK base. There will be a lot of people in front of you.

[thelowflyer]

Well I have no information regarding MPL`s but regarding CPL`s I waited 6 months for MEP/IR and 1 month for IR. It was obnoxious and I was paying rent every month.
that is pretty brutal! :o

[Wing Commander Fowler]

You would be very lucky to get STN base, more likely when Ryanair start recruitment again, it will be for LaudaMotion, Buzz and Malta Air. I don't have the details, but you would be incredibly lucky to get a UK base. There will be a lot of people in front of you.

That's it Antonio - they are moving towards that now. Driving T's and C's down.

As for Ryanair never going bust - if I had a Euro for every time I got that particular reply from my FO I would be very rich. Never say never. The guys at Shearson Lehman bank thought that on their last Friday at work! All it takes is for the run of good luck to end for ANY airline and it's goodnight Vienna (or anywhere else for that matter).

[magicmick]

I though that I might chip in a note of caution regarding L3 in particular and MPL courses in general, I should point out that I have never received any training from L3 and I have absolutely no axe to grind with L3 or any L3 employee.



My son is a member of the RAF section of the Combined Cadet Force at his school, recently he was part of a group that went to visit an Air Experience Flight unit hoping to get some training flights in Grob Tutors. Sadly the weather was too bad to fly, but being a social type and an aviation geek he had a wander around the unit and talked to some of the people working there. One person he spoke to is going through his CPL training with a local modular school. He has three other students going through CPL training with him all of whom started training with L3 self sponsored but quit due to training delays, he mentioned that they were getting 3 or 4 hours training in 3 months.



More disturbingly he mentioned one of their friends at L3 who was on the Easyjet MPL course, he completed the course after incurring a six figure debt and contacted Easyjet to get his start date and was told that he was no longer required. The MPL is taught using destination airline procedures throughout and is next to useless in any airline other than the intended destination airline. This individual now has a six figure debt, no job and a licence that is next to useless other than with Easyjet who do not want them.



L3 have met their commitment in that they have delivered the training and have received their money. Obviously neither L3 or the airline care about the hardship endured by the cadet if the job does not materialise at the end of the MPL. I am sure that this would be true of any training provider (not just L3) and of any airline MPL (not just Easyjet).



This poor individual now has a couple of options, either walk away and find work to service a six figure debt for a career that they will never have or build up flying hours (I think that MPLs do about 70hrs flying) and then CPL, MEP, MEIR and APS MCC and then take their chances with every other unemployed freshly qualified pilot. If they take the second option then their total spend is likely to be North of £150k with the possibility of no career at the end of it, not a situation that anyone should face. In an ideal world the MPL course loan would have some sort of insurance built in to pay the loan if the job isn’t there on completion.



In the past L3 have relied heavily on Easyjet taking their self sponsored candidates but if Easyjet are rejecting graduates of their own MPL course what chances have self sponsored graduates got of getting in with them?

[LanceHudson]

[QUOTE=magicmick;10667144
In the past L3 have relied heavily on Easyjet taking their self sponsored candidates but if Easyjet are rejecting graduates of their own MPL course what chances have self sponsored graduates got of getting in with them?[/QUOTE]

I somehow doubt this is true. eJ are still running an MPL programme, so it is likely that cadet will have been placed in a hold pool? I think the only reason eJ would not be interested at all in the candidate is if they achieved poor GS results or had poor flying ability.

[magicmick]

Hi Lance, I can only pass on what was told to me, the language used was that he was no longer required. If their GS and or flying skills were poor then I would assume that they would have been rejected earlier in the course rather than allowed to finish before rejection. The story was only related to me a few days ago so it may well be that this individual is from the latest MPL that is currently going through.

[VariablePitchP]

It is likely that they messed up something in a big way. Granted to do the whole course then get dropped isn’t ideal but if you were to make a total mess of the type rating then you’re going to get dropped at the end :(

In terms of axes to grind, I went through L3 during its identity crisis from CTC to L3. I didn’t have any delays and got through it all fine but I can 100% say I still wouldn’t go near them again with a barge pole. Utterly shambolic attitude to running the ground school whilst I was there. Total, total disregard for anyone’s individual issues or concern, just a total overriding effort to get as much money out of us for the least amount of input/hassle.

it was very much, thanks for your 100k. Now sit down and shut up and you’ll get your licence.

And this was BEFORE the delays/faf/broken promises.

If there’s one major thing I could change about my life choices so far it was choosing those bunch of amateurs.

if your lad wants to do a civvie course, great. I assume because he’s having these chats he’s looking at it. Please steer him WELL CLEAR.

[magicmick]

Hi VP, many thanks for the honest appraisal. My son would love to train but he has problems with astigmatisms and is outside the class 1 limits. After his eyes have stopped developing he could get them lasered as CAA accept certain laser treatments. My wife and I have left him in no doubt that if he wants to train then he does so with his own money and we will not be offering any security even if he is offered an airline tagged course. At the moment he has an assessment day for a degree apprenticeship as an Aerospace Engineer with Airbus, he has also passed the online degree apprenticeship assessments for Leonardo and BAe Systems so we will see where that takes him. If the degree apprenticeships don’t happen then he has provisional offers from several universities to study for Aerospace Engineering BEng.

[Contact Approach]

Hi VP, many thanks for the honest appraisal. My son would love to train but he has problems with astigmatisms and is outside the class 1 limits. After his eyes have stopped developing he could get them lasered as CAA accept certain laser treatments. My wife and I have left him in no doubt that if he wants to train then he does so with his own money and we will not be offering any security even if he is offered an airline tagged course. At the moment he has an assessment day for a degree apprenticeship as an Aerospace Engineer with Airbus, he has also passed the online degree apprenticeship assessments for Leonardo and BAe Systems so we will see where that takes him. If the degree apprenticeships don’t happen then he has provisional offers from several universities to study for Aerospace Engineering BEng.


Very supportive MM...

[magicmick]

Hi CA, Many thanks for your input, seven years ago our son passed the entrance exam for an expensive public school. At the time my wife and I gave him a choice we would support him through to completion of A levels at the private school or he could attend the local dire state comprehensive and we would put the public school fee money in an account and later in life he could choose what to do with it either fund a degree, deposit on property or pay for flying training once his eye problems have been addressed. Having visited the local comprehensive he chose the public school, over the seven years fees plus extras like school meals, bus fares to and from school, field trips etc I reckon we’ve stumped up about £100k give or take a few grand and given him the privileged education that neither my wife or I ever experienced so I reckon my offspring support credentials have been pretty well established thanks.

[dobby88]

To be fair, your original reply gave the impression you were just being unsupportive for the sake of it. With that context, that's very fair.

[Rottweiler22]

Even during my time at a big school, there were horror stories of tagged easyJet MPL cadets getting to the end of their training and being let go. This was always because of sub-standard performances though, and nothing to do with easyJet not needing people. The MPL schemes will go on forever. It’s good business. The schools make money and get to advertise their airline connections, the airlines get a flow of motivated cadets who pay for type ratings, and the cadets get their jobs. Everyone’s a winner.

As for flyBe, I don’t quite know what to make of them. Too many wobbles in such a short space of time leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Under no circumstances would I sign up for an MPL with them. As it stands, that seems like a risk of unprecedented proportions. Like said, £100k down the road flyBe could go bust and the school won’t care. Yes, they’ll let you finish your training, but afterwards you’ll be in the job queue. Behind god knows how many hundred ex-flyBe pilots. Take it steady and go modular.

Uncertainty breeds more uncertainty, so flyBe must be in a bit of state as it stands. Bookings must be down, and staff must be leaving in droves. If you were a newly-qualified pilot it would be worth applying to, as there must be a few vacancies.

[magicmick]

Very true, no doubt there will be lots of people leaving Flybe leaving vacancies for new hires, trouble with that is if some of those leaving are Line Training Captains who will be well regarded elsewhere but are needed to put the new hires through their company training before releasing them as qualified line pilots. If there are no/ few LTCs then the new hires cannot progress so there are too few qualified crews to operate all the aircraft so aircraft get grounded, flights get cancelled, income falls but even hangered aircraft require expensive calendar based maintenance so the money problems escalate. Disgruntled customers have tickets for flights that are not happening so they go elsewhere, a decent reputation takes many years and lots of effort to build up but can be destroyed in no time at all, look at the Boeing reputation with the 737Max.