Aircraft off runway at LPL

[B787register]

Lots of local news coming in that a light aircraft has come off the runway at LPL in the last 30 minutes.
Will update further once confirmed

[B787register]

Emergency services are on scene, appears to be a private jet with four on board. No fatalities. Flights are being either cancelled or diverted

[B787register]

C6618/19 notamn
q) egtt/qfalc/iv/nbo/a /000/999/5320n00251w005
a) eggp b) 1912110602 c) 1912111100
e) airport closed due to aircraft accident

[B787register]

9H-VJM Global 6000 VJT850

Stuck in grass. Airport closed until 1100 at least

[KelvinD]

That's going to be a disappointment for the Blue Air flight currently over the Blackburn area and descending.

[LGW Vulture]

That could well be the LFC bosses on their way over from Boston.....just putting two and two together like.

[B787register]

The blue air and the iom flight both diverted to Manchester

[B787register]

Further news.
Two crew
One steward/stewardess
One passenger

[ehwatezedoing]

LPL!? ahhhh ok, Liverpool.....

[KelvinD]

Re LFC owner; could be near the mark. The aircraft flew from Newark to Hanscom field, not far out of Boston, then to Liverpool.
https://planefinder.net/flight/VJT850/time/2019-12-10T20:55:00.000Z/speed/1

[ETOPS]

The playback maybe holds a clue - nice radar circuit with a 5nm line up but just a tad high. Speed appears to be under control but still slightly high over the threshold.
Will have to wait for the report but haven't heard of many Global 6000 brake failures :rolleyes:

[Joe le Taxi]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-50740693 Looks like it's off the side, not the end.

[B787register]

Looks like the high speed turn off to me, perhaps too quick and skidded? It wasn't cold last night here, well no frost on the car in Kirkby which is about 12 miles away

[ETOPS]

Curiouser and curiouser..........too fast for the RET usually ends up at the upwind side of the curve. Will just have to have patience and see what AAIB comes up with.

[foxmoth]

Looks a bit low down where the main gear should be, could be the camera angle but if a gear leg has collapsed - cause or consequence?

[spekesoftly]

According to the link in post#12, the AAIB have OK'd aircraft removal, and a specialist removal team is on site.

[The Mad Russian]

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/bombardier-bd700-global-express-vp-crc-29-january-2008

There have been previous moments with GLEX brakes... caused a fair amount of damage this 2008 event.. may of course be totally unrelated to this incident.

[KelvinD]

And there we are: the passenger was one of LFC owners, Mike Gordon, here or a "regular" meeting. Nothing regular about this one!

[Old King Coal]

For what it's worth, RET (Rapid Exit Taxiways) at larger airports have a design speed (i.e. the maximum speed in which one can turn into them) of 50 knots in the wet.

See section 1.3.17 of the ICAO Aerodrome Design Manual / Part 2 / Taxiways, Aprons and Holding Bays (https://skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/3090.pdf) and for which one would assume (based upon similar aircraft types listed that tome) that a Bombardier Global 6000 is likely classified as a 'code 3' type of aircraft with respect to RET design criteria.

[B787register]

Looking at the maps it dies indeed look like the high speed exit.
I note however a Ryanair from AGP, EI-FTD is inbound is she going to be diverted or is this the return to operations

[Flap 80]

Maybe the incident was caused by the crew failing to follow the RET centreline when vacating the runway and instead hugging the Northern edge on the RET only to encounter the notch in the RET where concrete suddenly becomes grass.
The notch is clearly visible on the AIP plates and Google Earth.
If this were the case it is similar to the incident to a Gulfstream at Biggin Hill in 2014 which commenced its takeoff run on 03 from the edge of the paved surface and then ran into the grass.
Just don’t tell Greta Thunberg it only had one Transatlantic passenger!

[sellbydate]

Maltese registered to Vistajet

[B787register]

Looks like the airports open now

[phiggsbroadband]

Looks like the Rabbit Exit Taxiway does run out of Tarmac just after the curved part...
****** (Switch to Satellite Maps if you get a white screen.)*******

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-2.854/centery:53.334/zoom:19 (https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-2.854/centery:53.334/zoom:19)

[standbykid]

Looks like the Rabbit Exit Taxiway does run out of Tarmac just after the curved part...
****** (Switch to Satellite Maps if you get a white screen.)*******

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-2.854/centery:53.334/zoom:19 (https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-2.854/centery:53.334/zoom:19)

Accident waiting to happen?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/969x422/capturel_5947fa0cec812029ab4f681f64df98004b5a19a5.jpg

[paperHanger]

Thats ... quite a big aircraft for a single pax ...

[Good Business Sense]

Accident waiting to happen?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/969x422/capturel_5947fa0cec812029ab4f681f64df98004b5a19a5.jpg

You know everyone bangs on about health and safety and risk assessments - the construction of that turnoff is insane - simply unbelievable !!!

[B787register]

I would love to see if that sudden end to the tarmac played a part in this, we would need over head shots though

[Magplug]

Not much point in painting a yellow centreline on that RET if pilots don't follow it.

Looks like someone was taking the 'racing line' hugging the RH edge of the RET for a quick right turn down taxiway 'A' to the GA apron :sad:

[Airbubba]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/968x681/private_jet_liverpool_airport_ffa6fb22ee0188fb4304bf2e928119 03dc8ce856.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/660x371/_110089037_merrick1_ddaeb951f2bc000c031e70b4002b08d10d98c22e .jpg
Photos from social media, the first one apparently taken by Thom O'Donnell.

I would love to see if that sudden end to the tarmac played a part in this, we would need over head shots though

I'd say that missing pavement is a prime suspect according to the pictures above.

[filejw]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/968x681/private_jet_liverpool_airport_ffa6fb22ee0188fb4304bf2e928119 03dc8ce856.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/660x371/_110089037_merrick1_ddaeb951f2bc000c031e70b4002b08d10d98c22e .jpg
Photos from social media, the first one apparently taken by Thom O'Donnell.



I'd say that missing pavement is a prime suspect according to the pictures above.
True but if you stay on the centerline its not an issue B744 to C-150...........

[Water pilot]

I wonder how a self driving Tesla would have handled that particularly brilliant example of lane striping. The notch isn't the worst part, the worst part is the white lane marker that disappears. You know that is going to get somebody.

[B787register]

Looking at the local TV news it's looks like it is a full 30-40 foot to the right (basically a full taxiway width I would say) of the actual taxiway so have they lost control under braking perhaps??

[Joe le Taxi]

Difficult to conceive why anyone would deliberately taxi way off the yellow line, close to the edge of the tarmac.

[MAN777]

BBC Look North West reporting that there is no guarantee the airport will open tonight.

Not having a go but Why is it taking so long ?

[Airbubba]

BBC Look North West reporting that there is no guarantee the airport will open tonight.

Not having a go but Why is it taking so long ?



Latest estimate in this cryptically formated NOTAM is the airport will be closed until at least 7:30 pm.

C6636/19 NOTAMR C6633/19 Q) EGTT/QFALC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/5320N00251W005 A) EGGP B) 1912111803 C) 1912111930 E) AIRPORT CLOSED DUE TO AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT

Wonder if the gear is stuck in the turf off the pavement and they are trying to move the aircraft without causing millions more in damage?

[LookingForAJob]

Not having a go but Why is it taking so long ?Down to two reasons really, in a case like this. First the Air Accident Investigation Branch is likely to have to give its approval before the aircraft or any debris can be moved/removed - if there is any question of a mechanical failure contributing to the event it is likely that permission will not be granted until someone from there has seen the aircraft in situ. Second, there may be a need to get special lifting equipment on site to remove the aircraft without causing further damage. Although most airports will have some aircraft recovery equipment, the reality is that it is primarily suited to moving a wrecked aircraft, chopping it up, if necessary. And if the aircraft is recoverable intact, it will usually need the agreement of insurers before anything is done (but I guess this is true for an obvious write-off too, it's just that the insurance company(ies) will want to ensure that a repairable aircraft is removed in a way that satisfies them and their technical experts).

[LookingForAJob]

Pathetic.Maybe so in your view, but it's the way it is. In response to a question, I was simply explaining a couple of the issues that the airport operator will have to deal with, and which will take time.
Promptly moving the plane out of the way is a safety issue.If there is nowhere else for an inbound aircraft to go, agreed, otherwise it is a business issue.
Depleting a number of airliners' fuel reserves is a bad idea. Unplanned holding/diversions are not good.Well, empirically, it is true that an aircraft with 1 kg more fuel on board is more safe than the same aircraft with 1 kg less, in most situations, anyway. But, then again, the reserves are there for just such an eventuality.
Not an insurance issue...I beg to differ, especially if there is any more damage done to the aircraft - someone will be liable and no-one wants it to be them if it's not necessary. I've been there and done that and I couldn't even get anyone to attach a tractor to the aircraft to tow it off the runway until insurance waivers were signed and in the handling agent base manager's hand. Your profile indicates that you fly something substantial - does your company not have certain expectations of you if you are the commander of one of their aircraft that is disabled in some way on an airport?
....and not an AIB issue either.That you would have to take up with the AAIB. However, I'm not a lawyer but I think regulation 996/2010, article 13, para 2 is fairly clear.
Political correctness again. UK leads in this field, sad people.Not really sure where political correctness comes in, but it's been like this for the last 40+ years since I started in this business.
lets bulldozz the heap of junk into the mersey, its costing everybody timne and moneyWhat we need is Joe Patroni. Still like that film.

[foxmoth]

So, if the delay is for the insurance company to avoid more damage will they be paying the bill for the diversions and loss of revenue to the airport?? Really it should be up to them - move the aircraft with damage costs you £xx, keeping the airport closed while you move it with less damage £xxxx/hour while it is closed!

[alfaman]

A second hand Global 6000 retails at over $50 mil: I doubt very much that a couple of hours worth of diversions come anywhere close to the cost of writing it off...

[ivor toolbox]

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/bombardier-bd700-global-express-vp-crc-29-january-2008

There have been previous moments with GLEX brakes... caused a fair amount of damage this 2008 event.. may of course be totally unrelated to this incident.


More likely a nose wheel steering failure, that's a more common Global Express issue.

[hawkerxp]

A second hand Global 6000 retails at over $50 mil: I doubt very much that a couple of hours worth of diversions come anywhere close to the cost of writing it off...

in what universe? A brand new global 6000 is about $43-48m depending on the time of year you buy it. Pre owned 6000 would be below $40m

[Fursty Ferret]

YFor what it's worth, RET (Rapid Exit Taxiways) at larger airports have a design speed (i.e. the maximum speed in which one can turn into them) of 50 knots in the wet.

There wouldn’t only be skid marks on the runway if someone tried that with me.

The nose-wheels losing traction at moderate speed is a thoroughly unpleasant experience.

[Joe le Taxi]

From the short distance into the grass, it doesn't look like they were going fast - just maybe not looking where they're going.

[H Peacock]

More likely a nose wheel steering failure, that's a more common Global Express issue.

But if the nosewheel steering ever does fail it simply defaults to castoring. It's very straightforward then to steer through the differential brakes!

[ivor toolbox]

But if the nosewheel steering ever does fail it simply defaults to castoring. It's very straightforward then to steer through the differential brakes!

Sounds straightforward, but believe me, taxi-ing a Global on brakes is quite tricky, you need some deft footwork to keep it going where you want it.

ttfn

[Jet Jockey A4]

Sounds straightforward, but believe me, taxi-ing a Global on brakes is quite tricky, you need some deft footwork to keep it going where you want it.

ttfn

Never had an issue taxiing with no nose wheel steering on a Global.

Had a nose wheel failure after engine start on a quick turnaround on the last leg on our way to home base (a 15 minute flight).

We taxied, made the takeoff and then landed and taxied to our ramp at home base without any issues... Was it a smooth as when using the nose wheel? Of course not. However if you kept the aircraft rolling and used differential braking it was not an issue.

[Guy of Gisborne]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x1334/img_20191212_wa0000_7f221d961d70b59927b553f23bc6b0465982a4b8 .jpg
Looks a premature turn off to me
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x1334/img_20191212_wa0001_0852a207f1a3bc1cfe17d56798453dccf6c5b908 .jpg

[Airbubba]

Looks a premature turn off to me


Wow, looks like that missing taxiway pavement would not have helped in this case.

[H Peacock]

Appears to have left the taxiway to the right of the RET prior to the narrowing taxiway. Also no sign of any Flap or even Slat extension; can't believe they'd have retracted them all after the event with all that mud in the system!!

The Global has a very short and tough maingear - I'm sure it'll buff out.

[CaptainProp]

High speed exit while running checklists (as flaps up) and not enough focus on manoeuvring aircraft.....?

Let’s see what report comes out with.

CP

[B787register]

Well she's still on the ground now at Liverpool so I'm guessing our lovely mud did some damage. I wonder how much responsibility Liverpool airport will need to take with that sudden ending of the tarmac as I bet you a pound that will be at least partial blame despite the pilots not being towards the centre line. That is assuming they haven't had another issue

[Maninthebar]

Well she's still on the ground now at Liverpool so I'm guessing our lovely mud did some damage. I wonder how much responsibility Liverpool airport will need to take with that sudden ending of the tarmac as I bet you a pound that will be at least partial blame despite the pilots not being towards the centre line. That is assuming they haven't had another issue

Tracks suggest that both nose gear and right MLG were in the mud prior to the black stuff turning green.

[KelvinD]

Maybe Liverpool airport will give the operators a bill: "You ruined our mud and we had to get the gardeners in"!
The whole thing reminds me of the opening of the current Jeddah airport (OEJN) in 1981. I seem to remember the new airport differed from the old (downtown) airport with the taxiway lighting. The old had lighting in the centre but the new one had the lighting on the edges. The lighting didn't extend down the full length of the taxiway but appeared at corners or bends. In addition to the nice big runways and taxiways, the new airport featured monsoon drains alongside the paved surfaces (who would have imagined that? Monsoon drains in the desert!) These drains were about 4 feet deep and perhaps 8 feet wide with sloping concrete walls. Within the first couple of days, there were 2 incidents in which a couple of flights (Swiss Air and BA) came unstuck. They had started following the blue lights and realised at the last second the lights were leading them into the monsoon drain. They both stopped but had to get assistance to back off and get back on track. A minor inconvenience! However, a few nights later, I was in the tower, finishing a long day's work, having a fag and a cuppa with the duty controller, when a Sudan Air 707 arrived. It was dark, about 22:30, and the controller gave the newly arrived 707 instructions for the taxi to the stand. A few minutes later, the controller remarked that he was taking his time getting to the gate, so he called him and asked if all was well, did the driver need any assistance such as a Follow Me truck etc? The pilot replied he was OK. This happened a couple of times with still no sign of the aircraft. The controller even asked me to look out of the tower window to see if the aircraft had parked (the allocated gate was just below the tower). Nothing there. I eventually went home with still no sign of the 707.
When I came into work the next morning, I was walking up the steps at the entrance to the tower when a the Sudan Air pilot appeared on his way out of the tower, with a Saudi Air Force policeman on each arm. I will never forget the look on the pilot's face; he had a huge silly grin across his face as if he hadn't a care in the world. When I got to my office, I asked my mate who was an ICAO advisor in the office next to mine what was going on? He took me back out to the tower entrance and pointed across the tarmac to a rather battered Sudan Air 707. At least a couple of engines were wrecked, there were scratches and scrapes on the belly and each wing. It was a mess! It seems the pilot had fallen for the confusing blue light trap and, rather than call for help, he decided he could tough it out and took his aeroplane off-roading!

[Klimax]

Good morning. Any updates on this VistaJet incident last year? Is there a report out yet? Cheers.

[parkfell]

Good morning. Any updates on this VistaJet incident last year? Is there a report out yet? Cheers.

AAIB website update 2 July ~ still under investigation

[Klimax]

AAIB website update 2 July ~ still under investigation

Many thanks for the hint.

[spekesoftly]

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-investigation-to-bombardier-bd-700-1a10-global-6000-9h-vjm