Australian Defense Force lists its bushfire response

[mickjoebill]

List of assistance to fire services by the Australian defence force.

Is this typical of the type and degree of help provided in recent years, or has it risen as a result of this year’s dramatic early start to the fire season?

https://news.defence.gov.au/national/defence-continues-bushfire-support

[junior.VH-LFA]

Probably more than normal but not unusual given the severity of the fires so far. Logistical support and limited observation has been done in the past, not just for fires but also cyclone relief etc.

[iron_jayeh]

I am all for the air force helping out. This is great.

[Lantern10]

The firies on the ground need all the help they can get. Exhaustion will be setting in soon, and there will be no respite until we get plenty of rain.

[601]

List of assistance to fire services by the Australian defence force.

I wonder if Q&A/RMIT will use this info to check some of the claims on last Monday's CC and anti Federal Govt rant?

[Wunwing]

601
I fail to see how how a person making a comment on Q&A on Monday night could know that related announcement was being made on Thursday morning?

Wunwing.

[601]

I fail to see how how a person making a comment on Q&A on Monday night could know that related announcement was being made on Thursday morning?

I am thinking that the RAAF release is as a result of the negative and demanding attitude expressed on Q&A.
From my observations, the Armed Forces, in these situations, generally go about these operations without any fanfare.

[dr dre]

The firies on the ground need all the help they can get. Exhaustion will be setting in soon, and there will be no respite until we get plenty of rain.

There’s no significant rain forecast until May. (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/no-rain-until-may-forecasters-warn-that-there-will-be-no-significant-rainfall-for-six-months-as-experts-warn-of-worst-bushfire-season-ever/ar-AAK004U) Looks like it’ll be a bad summer. And firies on the ground are already quite exhausted, as the bushfire season started in NSW in August.


Probably more than normal but not unusual given the severity of the fires so far. Logistical support and limited observation has been done in the past, not just for fires but also cyclone relief etc.


It’s probably worth a discussion about adapting the reserves or transitioning some of them into a dedicated national emergency/fire relief role. With more dedicated aircraft permanently based here.

I am thinking that the RAAF release is as a result of the negative and demanding attitude expressed on Q&A.


No, the “negative and demanding attitude” as you call it was actually expert opinion that was given as far back as April (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/we-saw-it-coming-former-fire-commissioner-says-government-was-warned-on-bushfires-20191114-p53agj.html) and ignored. And given the conditions on the ground and the exhaustion they’re encountering I think the firies have every right to demand help.

[Squeaks]

No, the “negative and demanding attitude” as you call it was actually expert opinion that was given as far back as April (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/we-saw-it-coming-former-fire-commissioner-says-government-was-warned-on-bushfires-20191114-p53agj.html) and ignored.

Interesting how dr dre and the SMH/Age infatuate with Greg Mullins while conveniently overlooking that he is a member of the 'Climate Council' under the chair of the discredited "it'll never rain again to fill the dams" Tim Flannery.

Some balance from dr dre is long overdue as he leaps in to any and every possible thread and turns it into a climate action rant.

Enough is enough.

[dr dre]

Enough is enough.

Ignoring expert opinion on bushfire prevention?

I agree.

And nowhere on this thread did I call for “climate action”. All I’ve said is to look at buying more firefighting aircraft and look at possibly a better integration of fire/emergency/reserve/aviation assets to combat the fires.

You’re the one who started the “climate rant” on this thread my friend.

[junior.VH-LFA]

It’s probably worth a discussion about adapting the reserves or transitioning some of them into a dedicated national emergency/fire relief role. With more dedicated aircraft permanently based here.


Sorry but it's really not the ADF's role to do those things. Of course when things are quiet and the State's require assistance, Defence Civil Aid to the Community is a good option, but it should neither be relied or planned upon. A whole of government approach at both the state and federal level is required to future proof the response to bushfires which are only going to get worse as the climate warms.

[Squawk7700]

It is the Defence forces job to do whatever the Government of the day tells them to do.

Saying it’s not their job is like saying conscription will never happen again!

[TimmyTee]

More importantly, for every one war or combat situation they may or may not see, there will be 20 odd fire seasons that they could be utilised on. So why ISN’T the well paid armed forces used this way every bushfire season, instead of relying on volunteers?

[junior.VH-LFA]

Because the Defence Force wasn't created and isn't funded to fight fires. That's what the State's respective fire services are for. For that exact reason is why the Government hasn't clicked it's fingers and decided to give fighting bushfires to the ADF as yet another role to fill. There is a huge difference between offering spare capacity under DACC as opposed to having people available all the time for a core role.

You're getting upset at a non event. If you want more funding for fire fighting assets, give the states more money. The ADF doesn't have them, and getting them would require more money... which you could just give to the States, who already have the experience and infrastructure framework to do something with it.

When the ADF has spare logistical capacity to support DACC, it does. There's literally a DACC Medical Evacuation happening right now to bring Australian's home from NZ. Logistics, AME and airlift are core functions of the ADF. Firefighting is not. Burning people out so that they can't fulfill their core job role isn't really conducive to having that capability ready when you need it either. The argument about the ADF operating water bombers (not mentioned here in this thread) is also getting exhausting, if for no other reason than it implies that the ADF has the spare capacity to take on more work than it already has; there are considerably more expertise operators available world wide than throwing some make shift system into a Herc that is already being used at its full rate of effort per year with aircrew that are already getting flogged.

[601]

All I’ve said is to look at buying more firefighting aircraft and look at possibly a better integration of fire/emergency/reserve/aviation assets to combat the fires.

What is this then
The National Aerial Firefighting Centre NAFC (http://www.nafc.org.au/)
AFAC is the Australian and New Zealand National Council for fire, emergency services and land management.

I remember Canadair was looking at bringing two CL215 to Australia in 1980 for a trial.
A trial was finally conducted in the early 90s. Canadair published a paper detailing how the CL 215 and 415 could support the fire services. I had a detailed study of al the available water sources and the amount of water and retardant that could be dropped in a 3 hr period.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/51589267

https://www.flightglobal.com/australian-firefighters-want-to-test-fly-canadair-cl-415s/11221.article

As for the former Fire Chiefs, we could have had a fleet of aircraft if it was not for the reluctance of some Fire Chiefs back in January 2003. https://fbeu.net/.../03/media-release-elvis-over-koperberg/ (https://fbeu.net/2002/01/03/media-release-elvis-over-koperberg/?fbclid=IwAR26W1Au0_I37DuHjlp2OITrJ9sPgoCNJrUY2zd6ChoFu7Ziys aCnueRUCM)