QF 380 Issues

[Bad Adventures]

4 380’s currently out of action (third of the fleet)

OQG in Dresden- reconfig
OQJ in Abu Dhabi C Check
OQF in Singapore for 3 days with No 2 Engine fail to start.
OQK now stuck in LA with VFG fault.

Doesn’t inspire much confidence for the Festive season.

[TWT]

What about OQB ? Is it still waiting for the door repair ?
mmm
mmm
mmm

[EastMids]

So in other words two are on planned hangar inputs while two (1/6th of a fairly small fleet) are AOG. Whether the two AOG are so because of inherent problems with the A380 or possibly just lacking parts is something that needs to be considered too before drawing any conclusions.

[Capn Bloggs]

OQK now stuck in LA with VFG fault.

AIP can be downloaded from the AsA website for free.

[Asturias56]

Maybe they should have bought more of them..... hat, coat , taxi!!!

[dragon man]

Like most of the aircraft in the Qantas fleet they are flogged, there are inadequate spares and engineers to fix them and lastly they don’t have enough ground time for rectifications.

[Bad Adventures]

Trying to continue to run a full schedule with 2 aircraft not available and no back up, not prudent I would have thought.
Some flights now running up to 48 hours behind schedule.

Todays cancellations. QF7 Dallas (2nd time this week) and QF1 to London now not operating.

[No Idea Either]

Don’t worry Bloggs, some of us got the joke:O

[dragon man]

And no 747 spare capacity since OJU left. Brilliant, give the man $24 million.

[The name is Porter]

AIP can be downloaded from the AsA website for free.

Does it explain how Class E works?

[Capt Colonial]

And no 747 spare capacity since OJU left. Brilliant, give the man $24 million.

No, you are all wrong!
AD said this is all the fault of Climate Change!

Now, where is my cup of KoolAid?

[VH DSJ]

Don’t worry Bloggs, some of us got the joke:O

I got it, which sadly shows our age. Back in the good ol' days when there was only two classes of airspace. CTA and OCTA :)

[ernestkgann]

Does it explain how Class E works?

No one understands Class E (to be fair I don’t understand most classes).

[Bad Adventures]

OQF stuck in Singapore until Dec 1 awaiting a new engine. You’d think SQ would have a few spare donks sitting around.

[morno]

OQF stuck in Singapore until Dec 1 awaiting a new engine. You’d think SQ would have a few spare donks sitting around.

Different donks I think

[Sunfish]

The trouble with the silo mentality: been counters meet KPI’s by cutting maintenance, spares to the bone and outsourcing everything they can.

Operations have no spare aircraft.

Marketing can’t meet market share KPI’s because too many inconvenienced passengers say “Qantas, never again”. I know I did. All it took was a defective spoiler actuator (with no spare in Melbourne) on pushback to turn me right off ever using them by choice again.

Friend last week said ”jetstar, never again/.” After her hobart - melbourne flight got cancelled, costing her an extra night in Hobart.....And she is a well connected marketing professional who will spread the message.

Neither of our “never again” decisions will show up in any KPI’s, nor will the thousands of others who do the same.

Useless airline kept in business by flying public servants around and entertaining politicians in the chairman’s lounge.

Open the skies completely, domestic and international.

[TWT]

SQ A380's have RR Trent 900's, same as QF

Can't imagine SQ would have a spare $25m donk just lying around that they could afford to give up either.
mm
mmm
mmm

[Chris2303]

The trouble with the silo mentality: been counters meet KPI’s by cutting maintenance, spares to the bone and outsourcing everything they can.

Operations have no spare aircraft.

Marketing can’t meet market share KPI’s because too many inconvenienced passengers say “Qantas, never again”. I know I did. All it took was a defective spoiler actuator (with no spare in Melbourne) on pushback to turn me right off ever using them by choice again.

Friend last week said ”jetstar, never again/.” After her hobart - melbourne flight got cancelled, costing her an extra night in Hobart.....And she is a well connected marketing professional who will spread the message.

Neither of our “never again” decisions will show up in any KPI’s, nor will the thousands of others who do the same.

Useless airline kept in business by flying public servants around and entertaining politicians in the chairman’s lounge.

Open the skies completely, domestic and international.

And in the meantime the call centre staff are copping abuse from the passengers. That's why I retired earlyish.

[Sunfish]

SQ A380's have RR Trent 900's, same as QF

Can't imagine SQ would have a spare $25m donk just lying around that they could afford to give up either.
mm
mmm
mmm

‘Those engines are modular, but it’s doubtful that QF and Sin modules would have the same modification status, let alone how you could work out an engine/module hourly rate to price such a swap going forward. Economists and bean counters never understand the complexities of what they think is a simple “swap”.

[Rated De]

Power by the hour....

Outsourced engines.

Penny wise pound idiotic.

[Stationair8]

Hopefully no management bonuses will be adversely affected by this little glitch!

[Toruk Macto]

Bonuses will be affected ! By the time costs are counted ( add on administrative fees ) loss of income and damage to reputation the claim against manufacturers will bring a tidy profit and performance bonuses will reflect it nicely .

[Tom Sawyer]

OQF stuck in Singapore until Dec 1 awaiting a new engine. You’d think SQ would have a few spare donks sitting around.

Not heard of an engine being in the IATA Pool (if QF-SQ have a pool agreement) as a loan item due to engine lease and/or ownership constraints, and even if it was it would be a pretty expensive exercise to do an engine change for one sector, take it off the wing and then pay overhaul/re-certification costs when sending it back to SQ.

On the other hand, RR have a service centre in Singapore, but maybe their spare has been used too.

[Asturias56]

Waiting for a Black Friday deal probably

[whatever6719]

Waiting for a Black Friday deal probably
L O L !!!!

[Capt Fathom]

Power by the hour....

Outsourced engines.

So it’s up to RR to get another engine on the wing!

[Slezy9]

So it’s up to RR to get another engine on the wing!

So how’s that working out for Air NZ? They will have as many as 4 787s AoG as of January. Rolls Royce kicking goals everywhere!

[Rated De]

So how’s that working out for Air NZ? They will have as many as 4 787s AoG as of January. Rolls Royce kicking goals everywhere!


To the spreadsheet driven idiots it saves expense.
That is to say it looks fine on paper, generates short term focus for short term incentives.
Longer term it is another expensive error, knowing the price of everything yet the cost of nothing is an extremely short sighted way to run a long term business.

[Global Aviator]

Power by the hour, rented bits on wings...

Ok so your saying if QF still had an engine shop they would have a spare modular unit ready to go? Would Air NZ have oh I don’t know say 8 engines ready to go?

You do seem very angry at airline management RD however there some arguments that are not quiet balanced.

I am not advocating out sourcing everything.

There are plenty of airliners sitting around waiting for horses to be put back on the wings!

[Toruk Macto]

Maybe if they had of kept their engine shop the engine would not have failed ? Maybe if they still had all those knowlagble engine people they could repair other people’s engines ?
Who knows but many big companies are moving away from short term bonuses , they don’t work long term ( like closing down engineering depts in airlines )

[Bad Adventures]

Engine arrived over night from Sydney on an SQ freighter.

[tdracer]

While there may be many things to criticize about the way Qantas is being run, I don't think "Power by the Hour" qualifies. Large parts of the industry are moving to Power by the Hour - and the engine companies are encouraging it for a number of reasons. First of all, it greatly simplifies spares - when the engine company owns the spares it can locate them strategically all over the world, so that when you need an engine in a hurry there is likely one close by, instead of at the operators home base which may be halfway across the globe. Plus if an operator has a run of bad luck, they won't run out of engines while another operator has three or four sitting unused. The current generation of on-board engine monitoring equipment downloads real time (or at worse at the end of every flight) - and the engine companies process that with fancy computer algorithms that can predict failures before they happen and alert the operator they need to get an engine off-wing before it actually fails. Preventive maintenance is nearly always cheaper than waiting until failure, and getting an engine off-wing prior to failure is an obvious benefit for ETOPS.
If just scratching the surface of why Power by the Hour makes good sense for many operators - especially those with smaller fleets.

[C441]

The current generation of on-board engine monitoring equipment downloads real time (or at worse at the end of every flight) - and the engine companies process that with fancy computer algorithms that can predict failures before they happen and alert the operator they need to get an engine off-wing before it actually fails.
In this case, unfortunately, this did not happen. My understanding is even after the engine failed to start, Rolls Royce could not offer any data that pointed to the cause of the failure. There were none of the parameter shifts that indicate a pending or existing problem. Thus a period of troubleshooting, including a boro, was necessary before the evidence lead to the requirement to replace the donk.

[Toruk Macto]

The engine goes into an engine shop when it comes off the wing . Why can’t that engine shop be in Australia ? Qantas in partnership with engine manufacturers can run engine maintenance/ repair .
Having power by the hour may be cheapest and generate more profit for investors and provide a bonus to certain managers but we as a industry gain nothing . I can hand my savings to professionals to manage , on paper I’m getting richer but I learn nothing and become reliant on them .
what happens if we fall out with trading partners ? Call me old fashioned but better to invest in self sufficiency.

[Sunfish]

​​​​​TDracer, I see you’ve read the commercial about “power by the hour”. I suspect the reality is slightly different based on my own experience.

In particular the bit about strategically placed spares, RR have bean counters too and they probably don’t like the idea of spare engines sitting around at remote airports either. Furthermore there is the question of the modification status of each module - this doesn’t always go with that, the question of matching life limits on modules to avoid frequent engine changes, and of course if it’s a generic spare, it would have to be “dressed” to suit the aircraft customisation.

I love the idea, but I suspect the reality is different.

[VC9]

Thankfully RD and numerous other people on this forum do not run the airline that I work for.

[tdracer]

The engine goes into an engine shop when it comes off the wing . Why can’t that engine shop be in Australia ? Qantas in partnership with engine manufacturers can run engine maintenance/ repair .

When you're talking a small fleet of aircraft/engines, it simply isn't cost effective for an operator to have a dedicated engine shop for a small number of engines. Twelve A380s, so 48 engines plus a few spares is simply too small a fleet - unless you're talking a joint venture with a few other A380/Trent operators to get up to a reasonable number of engines (at least 100), the fixed costs become killer.

Sunfish, I'm not over familiar with the Rolls power by the hour programs - nearly all my experience was with GE. But my experience with the GE program was rather impressive. They have algorithms to determine how many spare engines they need based on the fleet size, age, and utilization - and where to park them to make sure a spare is nearby when needed.
The engine monitoring routines are good, but they are not perfect. Used properly, they can and do reduce the number of engine related issues - including shutdowns - but they won't catch everything. St. Murphy is very difficult to predict.

[Toruk Macto]

Is it worth having a small fleet ? Small population ? Where does it finish . If you wanted to make money then give all the 380’s to China southern and let their economies of scale keep costs down . Can’t beat Chinese wages for pilots , engineers and they probably get RR to answer on first ring .
Keep them in Qantas colours but operated by China southern on the side .
they will increase the price each year , priories their operation and we forget how to fly .
but lots of short term bonuses and profit for investors .

[Street garbage]

Thankfully RD and numerous other people on this forum do not run the airline that I work for.
...as opposed to an Airline that sell everything for short term selective gain (KPI's), lines the pockets of those in upper management and the CEO asks for wage freezes whilst lining his pockets with $100 million dollars...
If you are deluded in thinking anything done by current management has be designed for the Long Term Restructuring and Long Term Viability of Qantas, then pity on you.

[Toruk Macto]

Centre of excellence , we got some of the best people . Take some vision and give up short term thinking , results would be after my time and senior managements . We want to be the smart country not paying one man $$$$ and aircraft stuck all over the place relying on lowest bidder to get around to it .
coat hat long walk time .

[Rated De]

Little Napoleon deemed engineering non-core.
Rather amusingly, insurance and gym memberships are.

Scale reduction in maintenance capacity saw engineering made redundant as the fleet size made continued investment "unprofitable" With that exercise process control was lost.
Qantas became reliant on an outside party.
It is a regular occurrence that QF aircraft (and other competitor customer aircraft) slide down the priority list at maintenance providers offshore....Funny that.

When QF32 suffered the stub pipe fracture within the engine, the airline were not aware of the pending Rolls Royce modification, consequently grounding their A380 fleet until they could work out which aircraft were and were not modified. No doubt it saved them a fortune short term; all those engineers made redundant, a union reduced in power and the like.
It was not Rolls Royce and its logo that fell to Earth and was splashed all over the media, it was Qantas.

The reputational risk for Rolls Royce was limited to a "compensation" payment. A hull loss for an airline through lack of process control, reduction in corporate knowledge and spreadsheet management can have far longer reaching implication.

[cattletruck]

Bimbo style management is now endemic in big business. I am not surprised.

[The name is Porter]

Dood, for a small period of time in Australia's history a political team had a vision of the 'clever' country. We were and are far from smart and have continued to be the 'lucky country.' That's about it and all it will ever be.

[dragon man]

Dood, for a small period of time in Australia's history a political team had a vision of the 'clever' country. We were and are far from smart and have continued to be the 'lucky country.' That's about it and all it will ever be.

Personally I think the luck is running out.

[The name is Porter]

Personally I think the luck is running out.

Yup. Lucky due incompetence has a timeline.

[Joker89]

Unfortunately QF international now one of the worst products on the market.

As for Australia, lucky, clever?? Neither

[morno]

Dood, for a small period of time in Australia's history a political team had a vision of the 'clever' country. We were and are far from smart and have continued to be the 'lucky country.' That's about it and all it will ever be.

That’s because you’re all now so frigging expensive that people the world over have no problem beating you in price

[Rated De]

That’s because you’re all now so frigging expensive that people the world over have no problem beating you in price

Sorry, was that in reference to the executive remuneration?
Or was it in reference to labour unit cost?
If the latter, it is incorrect.

[Sunfish]

Engineering is “non core” right up to the time when it isn’t. However by then the executives responsible will have taken their bonuses, shares and superannuation and retired.

I was offered this “bargain “ - think short term and be handsomely rewarded for it, by my first employer, Exxon. I quit when I realised that I was the patsy if there was an accident on my watch.

If the proverbial hits the fan, we have no engineering capacity in this country, just like 1939.

[Rated De]

Engineering is “non core” right up to the time when it isn’t. However by then the executives responsible will have taken their bonuses, shares and superannuation and retired.

I was offered this “bargain “ - think short term and be handsomely rewarded for it, by my first employer, Exxon. I quit when I realised that I was the patsy if there was an accident on my watch.

If the proverbial hits the fan, we have no engineering capacity in this country, just like 1939.


Precisely Sunfish.

A horribly unprepared Australia had practically zero heavy engineering capacity at the outbreak of World War two.
Time and geography allowed an escape. Talk to anyone in Darwin during the War to see how undefended it was north of the Brisbane line.

The reason Qantas had apprentice schools, heavy engineering and power plant facilities under government ownership, was in part, national interest.
The same applied to the car manufacturing industry, whereby production could be switched to producing military equipment with sufficient expertise to actually do so.

With 19 days of strategic fuel reserve and a privatised Qantas, national interest is only a flag of convenience.

[cessnapete]

It doesn’t seem financially sensible to have a dedicated engineering facility and a new build, specialty hanger, for small fleet of just 12 A380. BA have large facilities at Lhr and Cardiff for heavy maintenance on all their other types.
The 3 yearly heavy maintenance for the 12 strong fleet is carried out at present in Manila, by Lufthansa Technik. The planned aircraft is positioned there after scheduled service into Singapore. The aircraft previous off maintenance ex Manila ,then operates the service Sin Lhr. Seems to work well.( An after maintenance test flight having taken place the day before)
Unscheduled engine changes, just ferry a replacement on site by large Russian freighter!!
I don’t think the A380 cleared for 3 engine ferry as we did with the B747 if required.

[Tom Sawyer]

I don’t think the A380 cleared for 3 engine ferry as we did with the B747 if required.

A380 is certified for 3 engine ferry. A certain ME airline did one from Sydney to their homebase earlier this year after a failure.....which begs the question......why didn't QF 3 engine ferry SIN-SYD? No suitable crew trained/available?

[Street garbage]

It doesn’t seem financially sensible to have a dedicated engineering facility and a new build, specialty hanger, for small fleet of just 12 A380. BA have large facilities at Lhr and Cardiff for heavy maintenance on all their other types.
The 3 yearly heavy maintenance for the 12 strong fleet is carried out at present in Manila, by Lufthansa Technik. The planned aircraft is positioned there after scheduled service into Singapore. The aircraft previous off maintenance ex Manila ,then operates the service Sin Lhr. Seems to work well.( An after maintenance test flight having taken place the day before)
Unscheduled engine changes, just ferry a replacement on site by large Russian freighter!!
I don’t think the A380 cleared for 3 engine ferry as we did with the B747 if required.

The heavy maintenance is not done in Manila, hasn't been for about two-three years.
Heavy maintenance is in Abu Dhabi, refurbishment (config) is done in Germany.

[Street garbage]

A380 is certified for 3 engine ferry. A certain ME airline did one from Sydney to their homebase earlier this year after a failure.....which begs the question......why didn't QF 3 engine ferry SIN-SYD? No suitable crew trained/available?
Just because something is legal (3 eng ferry is in the A380 FCOM) doesn't make it safe...2 engine inoperative on the same side would be exciting I think...or Maybe it's cheaper to rent hangar space, freight the engine and complete the engine change there rather than ferry it home.

[Street garbage]

It doesn’t seem financially sensible to have a dedicated engineering facility and a new build, specialty hanger, for small fleet of just 12 A380. BA have large facilities at Lhr and Cardiff for heavy maintenance on all their other types.
The 3 yearly heavy maintenance for the 12 strong fleet is carried out at present in Manila, by Lufthansa Technik. The planned aircraft is positioned there after scheduled service into Singapore. The aircraft previous off maintenance ex Manila ,then operates the service Sin Lhr. Seems to work well.( An after maintenance test flight having taken place the day before)
Unscheduled engine changes, just ferry a replacement on site by large Russian freighter!!
I don’t think the A380 cleared for 3 engine ferry as we did with the B747 if required.

P.s There was no test flights the day before ex Manila, I just talked to a mate that picked one up from there a few years ago.

[Global Aviator]

The heavy maintenance is not done in Manila, hasn't been for about two-three years.
Heavy maintenance is in Abu Dhabi, refurbishment (config) is done in Germany.

Pretty sure saw a QF 380 in the MNL Lufthansa shop not long ago...

[mrdeux]

P.s There was no test flights the day before ex Manila, I just talked to a mate that picked one up from there a few years ago.

I picked them up a number of times. You are correct. There is no test flight.

[Street garbage]

Pretty sure saw a QF 380 in the MNL Lufthansa shop not long ago...
No, OQJ is in Abu Dhabi for a C Check, Manila hasn't be used by QF for 2 1/2 years.
You must have seen a Korean.
Scroll up to Post #1

[cessnapete]

I was referring to British Airways Manila Maintainence for their 12 strong fleet. Def a maintenance flight before enters service. Pos to Clark AB the day before pax service ex Sin.

[Rated De]

It doesn’t seem financially sensible to have a dedicated engineering facility and a new build, specialty hanger, for small fleet of just 12 A380

Precisely why scale was never a part of the plan.
Firstly, Fort Fumble "competitively tendered" engineering between itself and John Holland. Strangely convicted felon and then QF CFO Gregg was simultaneously on the board of the Leighton Holdings..No conflict there.

Having lost the "tender" QF engineering lost a few people, then of course Fort Fumble undertook said fleet reduction.
Said fleet is never again to be a scale that would economically justify (let alone national interest) a heavy engineering structure.

[Redpanda]

I thought QF built a 380 capable hangar in LAX?

[Toruk Macto]

Building hangers in America ? Changing engines in Singapore ? Maintence in Manila ? Why not be a partner in building new airport in Sydney ? We know airports are profitable . Future proof Qantas !