how many never get there?

[liquidhockey]

hi
please could anyone tell me how many people actually don't make it with the airlines (self sponsered or not)?
iv been told that if you want it you will make it but i was looking for a more specific answer.
I will have done everything up to my frozen atpl by the time i am 19.
any help would be appreciated
cheers
Dave

[RTO]

well...make it...
It's all a question of time. If you cant afford to maintain your licence and skills through 5-8 years of unemployment, you probably should not to it.
There are pilots out there that have waited 10-15 years without getting hired. Needless to say, keeping a frozen ATPL/Multi that long is expensive.

[liquidhockey]

10-15 years?!?!?!?!
iv been told that i am most likely to be waiting a year maybe 2 at most til i get my first job!
please could someone else with experience in this matter give me some more insight?
were the people who told me 1-2 yrs talking about when i have a full atpl?
cheers
Dave

[Skyjob]

Can't help you with your problem, but can give you an answer to your question.

As far as I am aware about 80% of my course which started in March 1999 has now got a job somewhere as a pilot for some company or other. However, not all of them have good ones. Several, fortunately, have gotten into airlines and are flying shining jets around the busy skies of Europe and some even beyond.

Don't pin yourself down on sales people telling you your first job will be within 2 years after graduation. The airline market is flexible and times are constantly changing. What prospects there may be today might be gone by tomorrow.

However, if you want to do it and get that job, do so, you won't regret it.

Good luck

[Luke SkyToddler]

Out of 19 people that completed my full time commercial pilot training course (which started in April '95), I'm aware of 5 that are still in the industry. Two instructing (including myself), one parachute dropping, one flying BN2's down in Africa, and the first one of us just finally cracked the first real job, on the Airbus with Cathay Pacific.

In other words, that's 14 fully qualified CPL/IR holders dropped out along the way, SINCE THEY QUALIFIED!! The slippery slope is normally financial reasons, they just take on that little day job to pay the rent and think they can fly on the weekends to keep the hours ticking over.

Moral of the story is, that the battle is only just begun when you walk out the door of that flying school with that IR pass in hand ... it IS a lot harder, and takes a lot longer, than any flying school spin merchant would have you believe.

[DeltaTango]

Hey Luke....thanks for that, I needed that litle kick......

DT

[Luke SkyToddler]

Sorry DT - it's just been one of those days! I'm not normally a miserable git, honest ;)

[cokehead]

Well..out of around 20 or so people who were at Prestwick doing the upgrade course when I was (about 6 years ago), I can't think of any who don't have jobs. Two at Virgin, four at BA, three at Airtours, two at JMC, one at Cathay, several on turbo's, a Go Captain, two at Britannia etc etc. Guesss it's just a matter of timing.

[Macman]

Similar story from me.....

Everybody on my upgrade course at Prestwick back in 96 got a job. I think the longest wait was about a year. Airlines who hired us were BRAL, Brymon, Easyjet, GB Airways, BA, Britannia, Jersey (British) European and there must be some I don't know about. Most guys who were on turboprops for their first job are now on A320 / B757 / B737 / B767. I think 5 to 8 years of unemployment in the present climate is unrealistic!

[skianyn vannin]

I'm afraid its just a matter of keep applying. It took me just under 2 years to get a job. I'd given up hope and though it would never happen when I got the phone call.

Everyone on my course had been waiting for that first job for at least a year regardless of their experince levels.

[springbok449]

Hi I have to say that out of 13 people on my course at Cabair 11 have got jobs and pretty similar on other courses.
Regards.

[Cypher]

I take it this is all in Europe..

try 5-10 years on average for your first real airline job in Australia/New Zealand, and thats just flying as F/O on a bandit...

[Flight Stimulator]

As a bit of an old git just starting out on the ATPL route I am worried. How much does it cost to keep current after qualification. I am concerned that I will be fighting you young kids for a post.

[Slick]

Skyjob I have been out of initial flight training for almost longer than I care to remember, however during my time I don't recall sales people talking me into parting with vast sums of money, because the flying job market was (in there opinion) boyant. Is this the norm now ?.

As far as looking for your first job goes if you are prepared to travel, international boundries, visas permiting (again its been a little while I'm afraid) I think its fair to say you will get somthing, might not exactly be your idea of plum, however...

As far as the UK job market goes I don't think anyone would argue that it's never been better, though it might not feel that way especially if you are low on time.

I can't see the current situation changing anytime soon, airlines will have to start recruiting pilots with lower levels of experience in larger numbers, whether this happens tomorrow or in five years time, pass. It will happen though.

Bottom line guys and gals, never give up you will get there in the end, look back and laugh, I think its fair to say nearly all of us have a story to tell when it comes to exams, jobs etc, and it tends to involve money and tears !. I have kept all of my rejection letters, I have a very thick file which I dig out sometimes and read, it keeps me straight if you know what I mean.

[Tor]

I believe that there probably are, and will be, fever that will never make it.

This asumption is based on the JAA requirement for maintaining a license. In my country there used to be a requirement for you to fly atleast 70 hrs (20 IFR) to maintain your CPL and IR. Furthermore every 6 month the equivalent to a PFC.

Today the hour requirement is 0 (zero!). All you have to do is pass your PFC once a year.

That's a substantial reduction in the costs of maintaining a license. Most probsbly give up due to financial reasons, however, today I can maintain my license for the equivalent of 250£ for the PFC, some 100£ in license fees and another 100£ for my anual medical. Everybody can afford that.

[Skyking]

Hi everyone , well just FYI , I secured my aus CPL/IR in 1997 , then came back home and converted the license in 1998.Have been trying to get a break ever since in India , were nothing but influence,corruption and kissing a** works.Anyway Its currently May 2001 , I have been working for the last 1.5 yrs as a ground staff with an international airline here , had to give that job up yesterday as they were not willing to give me leave to renew my license on loss of pay the fact being that i had used all my leave to attend a Jet Airways exam with 600 other unemployed pilots , some X-airforce with a **** load of experience.I have also received 25 rejection letter from SQ alone and many thereafter from Jet Airways , BD etc etc.This is life , U need to be patient and ready when the oppertunities come . Being a wannabe is not too bad , u must look at the +ve side of it and the many things u learn that wil help you once u get the job.All I can say is NEVER give up , NEVER and remember the impossible is made possible only by communion between god and yourself my friends . So hang in there and keep shooting.IT WILL COME , I BELEIVE IN THAT.

Warm Regards

Skyking

[kebabman]

how old are you now? im 17 and hoping to progress the same as you. good luck, kebabman

[ronchonner]

took me 3 months...but!!!!
but it was crap jobs, flight instructor,
skydiver, flight instructor again!, pilot for an owner, pilot for a crap company, flight instructor again...,....,.....
total time: around 2000h, ATP FAA.

[Tor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Ronchonner

took me 3 months...but!!!!
but it was crap jobs, flight instructor,
skydiver, flight instructor again!, pilot for an owner, pilot for a crap company, flight instructor again...,....,.....
total time: around 2000h, ATP FAA.</font>

There really is no problem in getting a job as flight instructor in Europe either. Except for financial ones perhaps and that in Europe you actually need education to become flight instructor http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif. Skydiving is not really considered a job in Europe (ranks at level with sightseeing, arial photography etc.). One of the latter mentioned jobs you can land within a week if in season. The problem for many is that the pay is too low.

[gdb1973]

To quote;

"Skydiving is not really considered a job in Europe (ranks at level with sightseeing, arial photography etc.). One of the latter mentioned jobs you can land within a week if in season. The problem for many is that the pay is too low."

Okay, well get me a Plane and a CPL and i'll do it. No joking. How much money? How do I qualify? I don't want to fly airliners, I want to fly air-taxi and photography. Money is not the issue for me, aviation is.

Now, i'm serious. How much would CPL/IR cost me? If getting a job is as easy as you say it is, i'm up for it.

Anyone need a Hanger rat with a degree in journalism (kinda), a heap of IT experiance and boundless love of winged things?

Give me an Email! Tell, you what. How about someone to operate a camera on photography jobs? Amuse sightseers? Kick out reluctant parachutists (Kidding!) anything? I just want to fly for a living. ATPL is out due to slight vision damage, co CPL it will be. Which suits me fine. If I wanted to fly a computer all day, i'd be running FS2000! LoL!

[little red train]

gdb1973:-

The Medical requirements are the same for both ATPL and CPL holders, (Class 1)

you may want to print of this page:

http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.220.htm

And see your local eye-checker for an indication, alot cheaper than going to the CAA.

Geez.. Roncho sure does get fired alot!! :)

[Tor]

gdb1973, as said it's not really a job and you wouldn't be able to make a living of it (unless you live at your folks or is on social security at the same time).

Usually the person holding the camera is a pilot and they switch halfway through the day.

[P. Jacobsen]

I know it's hard to land the first real job. I've been there, and remember it well. If, for a real job, you are talking about airlines, charter operators, cargo or taxi (not necessarily in that order), my experience is that you have to be able to produce a log book with some experience; btw 1000-1500 TT, whereof part of it in multicrew operation plus some turboprop experience. Why not give a Crew Leasing Agency a call. They know what's going on around the world. If you check out www.cockpitforum.com (http://www.cockpitforum.com) you will find links to these people. Good luck.

[v1rotate]

Interesting topic "How many never get there", I shudder to think the thought. Failure is NOT an option. I've been looking for nearly 2 years and I've just started flying a C206 for a skydiving outfit and in a holding pool with CTC for the turbo prop scheme. It will happen, I'm determined about it.

------------------
"Jerry, just remember, it's NOT a LIE if YOU believe it." - George Costanza

[HollyDog]

Well folks
The bad news is - we'll get there one day.
The good news is - Ronny will be with us along the way to keep us smiling. Hope we all get an invite to his FS2000 sim pass party

[smith]

Jacobsen: What you said sounds really good but how can one get the first thousand hours, multi-crew and turboprop experience? If you can answer that, it really helps the wannabes.