Jetstar A320 base in Perth

[Lator]

I've heard that Perth based Network Aviation will receive up to 12 A320s from the Jetstar fleet, to replace ageing F100s. Apart from that, does anybody know how many Jetstar A320 aircraft/pilots are based in Perth now, and what the forecast for the next 5 years looks like?

[f1yhigh]

I've heard that Perth based Network Aviation will receive up to 12 A320s from the Jetstar fleet, to replace ageing F100s. Apart from that, does anybody know how many Jetstar A320 aircraft/pilots are based in Perth now, and what the forecast for the next 5 years looks like?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is the beginning of the end for QF mainline 737s. In the manner that the 787 was claimed to be a growth aircraft and sooner realized it's a 747 replacement, the opposite goes for Network. The A320s are not just replacements for F100s, they will eventually have Network bases in other states over the years and watch Network take over domestic mainline 1 A320 at a time. A good indicator of future behavior is past behavior. I truly hope I'm wrong.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Effectively 2 airframes based there with around 10 captains and 10 F/Os.

They do bali 3 times a day, one of which continues on to Singapore. The Jetstar brand does well on leisure markets so I doubt they will close the base, especially given that they have allocated new command and F/O positions recently.

Would be be more likely that Network will start doing transcontinental flying in place of qantas 737s.

[crosscutter]

More 320’s may go to Network.

More Network bases are possible I guess.

Network (add any other subsidiary) taking over Mainline domestic is a strategy a well resourced mgmt would have implemented long ago...if it was that simple.

Im not going to rant again why such statements are nothing short of uninformed scaremongering.

Back to the topic, QF just gave an investor briefing. Nothing from that briefing is contradictory with what is suggested by the thread author. If the 320s can do the job better than F100 then why not do it when replacement JQ320s arrive.

[Blueskymine]

Yep, taking over the world, one J series at
a time.

I’m sure the troops can’t wait to see the other 2 go too.

[aussieflyboy]

I’ve heard it been called scaremongering before. However QF 737s used be a regular on the PER - BME route and now they’re a rarity. Replaced by nice cheap crew flying A320s. What’s stopping QF from flying PER - BNE red eyes with A320s.... then BNE - SYD and then the virus could just continue...

The moment someone gets too expensive they’ll look for something cheaper to replace it. Ask the ex-DRW based 717 crews...

[Blueskymine]

The Darwin 717 crews were only ever there while there was good will in the contract. IE it can be taken away whenever the commercial reasons are valid.

Mainline on the other hand IS Qantas.

[dr dre]

Oh here we go again, more “Network is going to take over the world” fearmongering.

We’ve heard these rumours for years now.

They have no basis in reality.

I've heard that Perth based Network Aviation will receive up to 12 A320s from the Jetstar fleet, to replace ageing F100s.

That’s the one rumour that sort of makes sense. 12 320’s would be a similar seat count to 17 F100’s, it would also resolve NA crewing issues. There won’t be much further expansion of NA to cannibalise mainline or JQ beyond that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is the beginning of the end for QF mainline 737s. The A320s are not just replacements for F100s, they will eventually have Network bases in other states over the years and watch Network take over domestic mainline 1 A320 at a time. A good indicator of future behavior is past behavior. I truly hope I'm wrong.

Nonsense. They could’ve done it years ago with Eastern, Sunstate or National Jet. They didn’t.


Would be be more likely that Network will start doing transcontinental flying in place of qantas 737s.


Not with the aircraft they have now. Anyone with knowledge of the situation would know this.


I’ve heard it been called scaremongering before. However QF 737s used be a regular on the PER - BME route and now they’re a rarity. Replaced by nice cheap crew flying A320s. What’s stopping QF from flying PER - BNE red eyes with A320s.... then BNE - SYD and then the virus could just continue...
The moment someone gets too expensive they’ll look for something cheaper to replace it. Ask the ex-DRW based 717 crews....


Those 737’s are now doing the BNE, SYD and MEL that used to be done by 330s.

The ex DRW 717 crews were replaced (initially) by mainline 737s actually. Who weren’t cheaper.

I think a lot of the fearmongerers need to read up on a little thing called “transmission of business laws” and “pilot supply and demand”.

In reality there’s nothing stopping Network operating A350/B777Xs, might as well start that rumour as well. Or maybe Sunstate, EFA, or JQ Pacific. Or perhaps Aeropelican, they have an RPT licence don’t they....

[Ratherbefishintoday]

I've heard that Perth based Network Aviation will receive up to 12 A320s from the Jetstar fleet, to replace ageing F100s. Apart from that, does anybody know how many Jetstar A320 aircraft/pilots are based in Perth now, and what the forecast for the next 5 years looks like?

Sounds like it’s EBA negotiating time and the QF management trolls are hard at work! Good luck👍

[Lookleft]

The Jetstar brand does well on leisure markets so I doubt they will close the base,

Really? Why wouldn't they close the base especially with the optimiser and the number of crew already overnighting in Perth. Not sure how long you have been in Jetstar EAC so you may not remember the closure of HB, ADL and DRW. If they think they can save $1 by closing the base then it will happen in the blink of an eye. The first warning PTH crew will get will be a visit by the CP and HR.

[RU/16]

Replace a 100 seat (on a good day) aircraft with a 180 seat aircraft?
Has the WA market grown that much?
Will they not be supplementing the F100 not replacing them?

[Jc31]

Oh here we go again, more “Network is going to take over the world” fearmongering.

We’ve heard these rumours for years now.

They have no basis in reality.



That’s the one rumour that sort of makes sense. 12 320’s would be a similar seat count to 17 F100’s, it would also resolve NA crewing issues. There won’t be much further expansion of NA to cannibalise mainline or JQ beyond that.



Nonsense. They could’ve done it years ago with Eastern, Sunstate or National Jet. They didn’t.



Not with the aircraft they have now. Anyone with knowledge of the situation would know this.



Those 737’s are now doing the BNE, SYD and MEL that used to be done by 330s.

The ex DRW 717 crews were replaced (initially) by mainline 737s actually. Who weren’t cheaper.

I think a lot of the fearmongerers need to read up on a little thing called “transmission of business laws” and “pilot supply and demand”.

In reality there’s nothing stopping Network operating A350/B777Xs, might as well start that rumour as well. Or maybe Sunstate, EFA, or JQ Pacific. Or perhaps Aeropelican, they have an RPT licence don’t they....

what crewing issue? Seems to be a common thread that network struggles to crew flights when in reality we could do a heap heap more flying if required.
also the busses are growth not replacement. No plan to retire the Fokker as they make them too much money. In regards to the fact that qf could have done it years ago? So you’re saying that because something could have happened before it means it is to never happen in the future?

[dr dre]

what crewing issue? Seems to be a common thread that network struggles to crew flights when in reality we could do a heap heap more flying if required.
also the busses are growth not replacement. No plan to retire the Fokker as they make them too much money.

Crewing from a perspective of taking over an entire other airline’s flying, which is what some posters here allude to. Plus there’s a quite a few NA crew on the mainline hold file, and probably a lot more who want to go. Not many mainline pilots applying for other airlines.

No retirement plans for the F100 but can’t keep them around forever. Getting quite long in the tooth now, a lot manufactured almost 27 years ago and Fokker haven’t exactly been providing product support lately. Dispatch reliability not as good as mainline. OK for FIFO but not transcon RPT. No secret that JQ weren’t exactly sad to palm off those specific 320s to NA as well.

As far as growth goes where exactly will that growth be too? The only growth I can see is DRW-ASP and at the end of the day that was ultimately at the expense of the Cobham DRW guys. I’d say any more growth for NA would be at the expense of those guys more than anything else.

In regards to the fact that qf could have done it years ago? So you’re saying that because something could have happened before it means it is to never happen in the future?


Anything could happen on the future, but the likelihood of NA taking over all mainline flying as some have suggested is so remote it’s not worth worrying about. Far greater chance of NA remaining static, to the point where it’s all absorbed into mainline.

[SandyPalms]

You've gotta love these guys who come on pprune and spout off this rubbish as though this is something new. I'm tellin ya fellas, we've heard it all before, and we're still here.

[f1yhigh]

They never needed to do it before, but now that the 737s will need replacing in the not so distant future, what do you folks suppose will replace them? You have to look at current orders and what's available to replace 737s for the QF group. It sure as heck isn't going to be the NMA and/or A220. A320s are the future for domestic mainline, and them going to NA is just the beginning. As I said before, I sure hope that's not the case (for your sakes), but if I had to bet my mortgage on what I envision the future at QF is going, that would be my bet.

[SandyPalms]

They never needed to do it before, but now that the 737s will need replacing in the not so distant future, what do you folks suppose will replace them? You have to look at current orders and what's available to replace 737s for the QF group. It sure as heck isn't going to be the NMA and/or A220. A320s are the future for domestic mainline, and them going to NA is just the beginning. As I said before, I sure hope that's not the case (for your sakes), but if I had to bet my mortgage on what I envision the future at QF is going, that would be my bet.

Just about everything in that post is rubbish. But thanks for you thoughts.

[morno]

Predictions like that from f1yhigh have been around since Qantas first bought Impulse back in 2001. Those that make the predictions obviously don’t understand how the SHEA works and when it applies. Network may certainly expand in the number of A320s it operates but there is a certain number that it can’t exceed without Qantas breaching the SHEA. If you don’t know the number then you shouldn’t be commentating.

Geez you’re all a sensitive bunch aren’t you.

Maybe those clauses need to be removed from the EA’s so Qantas can go about its business freely

[Lator]

Replace a 100 seat (on a good day) aircraft with a 180 seat aircraft?
Has the WA market grown that much?
Will they not be supplementing the F100 not replacing them?

The FIFO mining market seems to be picking up, is what I heard.

Skywest had been using 1 or 2 A320s to supplement the F100s, but indeed unfortunately the little Fokkers are reaching EndOfLife. Maintenance of the RollsRoyce engines was always quite expensive, more and more electronics parts are hard to find now, having to cannibalise. 80s electronics is *ancient*.

[f1yhigh]

Just about everything in that post is rubbish. But thanks for you thoughts.

No offense taken. Happy to be proven wrong as time continues.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

That theory falls over when you consider that the Network contract being based on 65 hours a month and the Jetstar contract being based on 75 means network guys get paid more per hour than JQ.

[f1yhigh]

The clause prevents Qantas expanding a subsidiary and completely replacing mainline at cheaper costs.

Is there a clause in the JQ EA that prevents Qantas from going about it’s business freely and increasing Network’s fleet of A320s and thus take over JQ flying? Suspect there isn’t. Perhaps JQ pilots have more to worry about with Network A320s than mainline.

Was there such a clause for cabin crew and ground crew as well? The likes of QCCA and QGS subsidiaries taking over come to mind.

[morno]

The clause prevents Qantas expanding a subsidiary and completely replacing mainline at cheaper costs.

Is there a clause in the JQ EA that prevents Qantas from going about it’s business freely and increasing Network’s fleet of A320s and thus take over JQ flying? Suspect there isn’t. Perhaps JQ pilots have more to worry about with Network A320s than mainline.

Are any other businesses in Australia hamstrung by such nonsense? I dare say not many

[Industrie]

Not going to receive the big pay rise outside of the QF group wages policy.

[SandyPalms]

So, there are individuals in this thread who would prefer 700 Australian pilot jobs be replaced by 700 other pilot jobs, but with 1/3 the pay. Just so the QF guys get screwed. What great bunch of people we have here.

[Transition Layer]

So, there are individuals in this thread who would prefer 700 Australian pilot jobs be replaced by 700 other pilot jobs, but with 1/3 the pay. Just so the QF guys get screwed. What great bunch of people we have here.
Just morno’s standard anti-QF rhetoric. It’s getting tiring and boring :yuk:

[Clipster]

There’s always going to be that 1%. Everyone else is hoping that we can ALL improve our terms and conditions. The 1% can be a bit noisy though.

[morno]

Just morno’s standard anti-QF rhetoric. It’s getting tiring and boring :yuk:

Bit like Rated De’s “Little Napoleon” theme isn’t it.....

It’s called a balanced view buddy, just because it doesn’t agree with your point of view it doesn’t mean it’s Anti QF or anything like that.

Why is aviation special? What makes it any different to any other industry that you deserve special clauses to protect your jobs?

[CurtainTwitcher]

It’s called a balanced view buddy, just because it doesn’t agree with your point of view it doesn’t mean it’s Anti QF or anything like that.

Why is aviation special? What makes it any different to any other industry that you deserve special clauses to protect your jobs?




Sorry morno, I must have missed the existence of these special clause that protects jobs embedded in Qantas group EBA's. Perhaps you could please point out, preferably with references to the clauses in the documents.

Of course, there is the law of the Land, the Fair Work Act, which does indeed contain provisions against the transmission of business to prevent unscrupulous employers abusing their power. But that is an act of Parliament, not industrial negotiation.

[aussieflyboy]

There was an A320 in Broome at lunchtime yesterday. That exact flight (Sunday Broome Lunch) used to be a B737. How are they allowed to do that?

Approx same number of pax, same size plane but cheaper crew

[Lator]

There was an A320 in Broome at lunchtime yesterday. That exact flight (Sunday Broome Lunch) used to be a B737. How are they allowed to do that?

Approx same number of pax, same size plane but cheaper crew

A Network A320?

[crosscutter]

This thread is embarrassing a couple of posters...maybe the 10th on this issue in recent times. FFS spend some time reviewing the FWA and get educated. Or ring your association/union if you can’t be arsed.

The correct answer has been planted numerous times over the years explaining why Network, Cobham or any subsidiary has been able to grow. They may continue to grow. They may do routes traditionally done by Mainline. It doesn’t mean the demise of Mainline or Jetstar.

[ebt]

There was an A320 in Broome at lunchtime yesterday. That exact flight (Sunday Broome Lunch) used to be a B737. How are they allowed to do that?

Approx same number of pax, same size plane but cheaper crew


Simple - it's part of a deal with the state government for cheaper fares - https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/McGowan/2019/05/Perth-to-Broome-Qantas-special-fares-to-continue.aspx.

I may be wrong, but I understand that it operates in the JQ all-economy layout, so there is some increase in the number of seats against the 737.

[Toruk Macto]

Transfer of business to reduce costs is all Australian airlines do now . Long gone are the days of building airlines into something great .