REX Screws Australian Pilots Again

[Dark Knight]

Rex gets DOHA approval for 482 visa pilots: NOVEMBER 11, 2019

Rex says it will still preference local pilots, instructors and engineers despite getting approval to hire workers on visas.
Regional Express Airlines has struck a deal with the Department of Home Affairs that will allow the carrier to hire pilots, maintenance engineers and flight instructors from overseas.
Under the five-year labour agreement, foreign workers would be recruited under a subclass 482 temporary skills shortage visa, and could apply for permanent residency after three years.
The deal would allow them to work anywhere in the Rex network which includes 60 destinations throughout regional and remote Australia.
A statement from Rex said the airline “commended the Department of Home Affairs for putting this scheme in place, which will go a long way towards addressing the critical shortage of pilots, aircraft maintenance engineers and flight instructors that has severely impacted the Rex Group and the whole aviation industry in Australia over recent years”.

Rex deputy chairman John Sharp said at the same time, the airline would continue its search for skilled workers in Australia and was 100 per cent committed to supporting local employment.

“The employment of Australian workers will take precedence over skilled workers from overseas,” Mr Sharp said.

“For example, Rex has gone to extraordinary lengths to overcome the critical shortage of pilots by establishing a pilot academy over 10 years to train local cadets to be airline pilots with Rex.”

But he said the labour agreement would provide much needed assistance in helping Rex fill vacancies for pilots and engineers so that it could continue to provide regular public transport services to remote and regional communities.
“The agreement also allows accessibility to more flight instructors and this will bolster our capability to produce more pilots at our state-of the-art pilot academy based in Wagga Wagga, thereby perpetuating the cycle of pilots to meet the needs of the Rex Group and the broader aviation industry in Australia,” said Mr Sharp.

Rex expected to recruit about 20 workers a year under the agreement.

The deal comes as Rex and the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP) await the outcome of a federal circuit court hearing into a letter the airline sent to prospective cadets.
The AFAP claimed the letter constituted “adverse act*ion, coercion and misrepre*sen*tation under the Fair Work Act, and should be retracted with Rex ordered* to pay civil penalties”.
The letter sought to have cadets submit a handwritten letter explaining how they would give back to the company by volunteering to undertake various activities and actions.
AFAP argued this included staying at cheap accommodation, and committing to remaining with Rex for at least seven years.
The matter was heard over three days before Judge Karl Blake in the Federal Circuit Court in Melbourne last month and a decision reserved.

“For example, Rex has gone to extraordinary lengths to overcome the critical shortage of pilots by establishing a pilot academy over 10 years to train local cadets to be airline pilots with Rex.”
Rubbish! Similar to other aviation operators in Australia the have connived, manipulated the system preventing them from spending money on training.

Similarly; set the employment standards high or refuse to lower them enabling them not to train qualified pilots who are more than able to be trained becoming successful airline pilots.

In the past pilots with as little as 275 hours, no twin time or an Instrument rating have been hired, trained to become highly successful multi engine jet transport captains.

When the Global Shortage takes further effect in overseas pilots home countries or the salaries overseas continue to increase do these operators really think the expat pilots will stay here?

Similarly, the time expat pilots spend here will be highly influenced by the high cost of living here (compared to other countries) rapidly declining infrastructure, facilities and general standard of living.

[hawkerxp]

Aussie dollar will make it pretty unattractive to anyone really. Europe and the US are both experiencing a shortage of pilots too so not sure where they think they are going to be coming from.

[altocu]

Aussie dollar will make it pretty unattractive to anyone really. Europe and the US are both experiencing a shortage of pilots too so not sure where they think they are going to be coming from.

South America and South Africa.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Easy way to get residency which is the real prize.

[AmarokGTI]

The problem is (and has been for a while) *suitably qualified* people to hold commands and who want to live where the commands are based.

Typically external people who hold the DEC hours aren’t applying for the jobs, they are looking at JQ, VANZ, VARA, Network etc as FO or QF VA as SO.

Its not possible to argue with the fact that as an absolute minimum to get checked to line as a CPT you need an ATPL and the required hours. If internals don’t have that (or at least the exam component - Rex can issue ATPL as part of 217) and externals aren’t applying, a solution is needed. There is not a shortage of FOs there now.

[transition_alt]

Will be interesting to see what happens when Jetstar take another 50% of their pilots in the next few months after the applications close.

[Left 270]

Aren’t they just doing the same as what their competitors have done already? Lots of accents across the props now.

[Ladloy]

This never works out well for Rex.

[wheels_down]

More pilots for Jetstar to nab. Win Win.

[Berealgetreal]

Aussie dollar will make it pretty unattractive to anyone really. Europe and the US are both experiencing a shortage of pilots too so not sure where they think they are going to be coming from.

Couple of big airlines failed in Europe recently I don’t think there is a shortage there.

[rodney rude]

There's a ton of pilots who join second and third level operators, take all the training (costs) and then happily scarper to bigger and better within months. Ive seen too many pilots doing the screwing. I'd like to see you run recruiting or in an operation like this Dark Knight - see if you have the same thoughts about unilateral screwing then.

[Ladloy]

There's a ton of pilots who join second and third level operators, take all the training (costs) and then happily scarper to bigger and better within months. Ive seen too many pilots doing the screwing. I'd like to see you run recruiting or in an operation like this Dark Knight - see if you have the same thoughts about unilateral screwing then.
Rex love screwing. The current operation is a toxic nightmare and the last time we had American and Swedish imports they all left within two years, not because they wanted better things but because Rex refused to pay for the continuation of their visa.

[neville_nobody]

Good to see the selective capitalists at work again. Surprised they haven't wheeled out the old 'Airlines are poaching our pilots' mantra yet.

I always love how pilots have to wear 'market forces' when the employment market is against them with little ability to go anywhere overseas but when the market turns the employers just go and change the rules.......

Funnily enough if REX made it a worthwhile place to work, brought back some country bases to lower cost of living, got rid of temporary bases they might actually retain some staff. I suspect though they aren't really interested in retaining staff.

[deja vu]

There's a ton of pilots who join second and third level operators, take all the training (costs) and then happily scarper to bigger and better within months. Ive seen too many pilots doing the screwing. I'd like to see you run recruiting or in an operation like this Dark Knight - see if you have the same thoughts about unilateral screwing then.
Oh boo hoo, do you really think a young pilot goes through years of training, expense and anguish to spend their life working for the likes of REX?, who make it clear from day1 that they are not valued and are treated that way. Time to get real! Explain to us why they don't stay, bigger maybe, better definitely.

[TBM-Legend]

Why the whinge? REX is a Singaporean company really. Also insurance companies set minimum pilots requirements not the company generally...

[73qanda]

Hmmmm, just when the market is about to behave like a market and increase salaries to attract and retain........the market gets tampered with.

[rodney rude]

Dejavu - you really do have a **** attitude. My point is NOT about loyalty to Rex or any other 2nd or 3rd level operator. My point, which you have totally missed is that its not just airlines doing the screwing. Pilots are good at it too and it goes both ways. GET IT? And its not just at the lower levels - I know 2 guys who have been with one of our jet carriers for just 6 months but are not based where they want to be, so they are both doing interviews now for another airline. So they have no qualms about screwing over the airline that just trained them. Is that right or wrong???????? That's not my point - my point is that for every pilot screwed by an airline as Darky accused Rex of, there is a pilot screwing the other way. Get my point now Deja??? So take your boohoo and stick it up your arse.

[KRUSTY 34]

Nicely said Rodney!

I can see a padlock coming?

[beached az]

Rex deputy chairman John Sharp said at the same time, the airline would continue its search for skilled workers in Australia and was 100 per cent committed to supporting local employment.

“The employment of Australian workers will take precedence over skilled workers from overseas,” Mr Sharp said.


Horse :mad:

With 2700 hours TT mostly Multi crew above 5700 and time on type, I can't even get an Interview :ugh:
I guess if you can't beat em, join em. Sadly time to apply for the E3.
This country is :mad:ed!!

[The name is Porter]

Horse https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif

With 2700 hours TT mostly Multi crew above 5700 and time on type, I can't even get an Interview https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies2/eusa_wall.gif
I guess if you can't be em, join em. Sadly time to apply for the E3.
This country is https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gifed!!

Sums it up perfectly. I doubt you'll regret getting out of this backwater. E3 won't be sad for you!

[Dark Knight]

Also insurance companies set minimum pilots requirements not the company generally...
I would highly question this; Insurance companies interest extends only to hull losses, loss of life and accidents/incidents resulting in hull damage, etc. Of course, not forgetting protesting their own interests!
Any link to pilot employment standards would only be a consideration if/when it can/could be shown this is a significant, continuing contributing factor.

Supply/employment of pilots is subject to the laws of supply and demand where airline operators have had a very good time since Frank Lorenzo and his ilk, the accountants, bankers and of course Airline Mangers (i.e. Clerks) took over running the industry where all airline workers (including pilots) have been right royally screwed with their salaries, working conditions very significantly reduced. Airlines have never had any compulsion or pilot considerations when furloughing, retrenching or reducing pilot numbers.

And let us not start on the effect of HR!

This without noting the above managers, bankers and accountants have ensured their salaries, conditions have continued to improve significantly.

Pilots similar to any other workers will (and should) continuously assess the quality of their salaries, working conditions when applying for a position and thereafter; should better opportunities a be available it becomes their decision whether they will move and improve their lifestyle and the lifestyle of their families.

It is incumbent upon airline operators to provide attractive working conditions and salaries to enabling them to hire and keep good people.

As previously pointed out airlines in the past have employed pilots with minimum hours successfully training them to become highly competent multi-engine jet captains accepting this was a cost of running an airline (that is until Lorenzo etal)

There are airlines today who employ people to be pilots train them and put them in the right hand seat with a bare 250 plus hours.

Why are Australian airlines operators no longer capable of doing this?

What makes Australian airline operators so different from other airlines around the globe?

[717tech]

Rodney Rude. Wouldn’t these Pilots be bonded in some way? So they’d have to pay the residual bond if they were to leave early in the chase for their preferred base. If that’s the case, the company recovers their investment (albeit probably not all) and moves on.

[Ladloy]

Rodney Rude. Wouldn’t these Pilots be bonded in some way? So they’d have to pay the residual bond if they were to leave early in the chase for their preferred base. If that’s the case, the company recovers their investment (albeit probably not all) and moves on.
DE guys at rex must pay the endorsement, cadets have their loan and scholarshop bonds for 7 years. Some cadets have left and paid over 100k to fly for another airline before their 7 years , that shows how much people want to leave. Rex get their tidy sum, the cadet gets a job that pays 3 times their rex wage (if an FO). As someone said before, the market was on the side of the employee but rex changed the rules. Wage stagnation and the revolving door continues.

[TBM-Legend]

I'm lost on this. If you don't like the company rules then don't join. Rex should not be paying for your training if you don't intend on staying. If you leave then like any institution you pay what you owe. Go to Uni and use HEX then you pay it back.

[AmarokGTI]

DE guys at rex must pay the endorsement, cadets have their loan and scholarshop bonds for 7 years. Some cadets have left and paid over 100k to fly for another airline before their 7 years , that shows how much people want to leave. Rex get their tidy sum, the cadet gets a job that pays 3 times their rex wage (if an FO). As someone said before, the market was on the side of the employee but rex changed the rules. Wage stagnation and the revolving door continues.

I feel like this post implies financial outlay - in fact the type rating is covered by the company and the crew member is legally “bonded” as per many other places for 2 years, with the amount required to pay back reducing over that period. Stay two years, you owe zip and can leave at will.

[JPJP]

Rex gets DOHA approval for 482 visa pilots: NOVEMBER 11, 2019

Regional Express Airlines has struck a deal with the Department of Home Affairs - “For example, Rex has gone to extraordinary lengths to overcome the critical shortage of pilots by establishing a pilot academy over 10 years to train local cadets to be airline pilots with Rex.”.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x731/4bf962b7_9e71_4096_9697_bbd5c9aa2efc_bab28afb2c9871f7ebd898f b050653be513b0622.jpeg



Absolute and complete gibberish.

No pilots in Australia ? Or, no Australian pilots who will work for the junk wages at Regional Express Airlines (REX) ?

[lucille]

What exactly are the wages at REX?

[deja vu]

Dejavu - you really do have a **** attitude. My point is NOT about loyalty to Rex or any other 2nd or 3rd level operator. My point, which you have totally missed is that its not just airlines doing the screwing. Pilots are good at it too and it goes both ways. GET IT? And its not just at the lower levels - I know 2 guys who have been with one of our jet carriers for just 6 months but are not based where they want to be, so they are both doing interviews now for another airline. So they have no qualms about screwing over the airline that just trained them. Is that right or wrong???????? That's not my point - my point is that for every pilot screwed by an airline as Darky accused Rex of, there is a pilot screwing the other way. Get my point now Deja??? So take your boohoo and stick it up your arse.

What a charmer! But there you go, this is what you should expect with a culture like REX. And I am the one with the attitude? But I have to admit some of my posts do apparently rub when they hit close to home. I don't apologise for that as I can't help myself when it comes to fawning sycophants who come to a pilot forum and want to run down pilots.

Things have changed a little recently, market forces if you like, and those who have had it their way for so long want to cry its unfair when the boot is on the other foot.

A couple of pilots choose to leave after 6 months on "their jets" and this is the end of the world, maybe Mr Rude it demonstrates incompetence in the recruiting department. Then again Mr Rude gets dicked about by Virgin, WTF! this is the end of the world when he is travelling the world, for work, surely they know who he is, I mean 35 years in Aviation, wow. But yes, I get it, big fish in small pond syndrome.

[Ladloy]

59-72k from year 1 to 10 as FO
98-119k Captain

FOs loaded in every base so little to no overtime.
Captains are few and far between but they won't upgrade anyone because no one wants to move to Sydney.

[Bend alot]

Rodney Rude. Wouldn’t these Pilots be bonded in some way? So they’d have to pay the residual bond if they were to leave early in the chase for their preferred base. If that’s the case, the company recovers their investment (albeit probably not all) and moves on.
I have not looked into it but I would be sure that the visa holder is held to the employer for the duration up until PR is granted.

An application for PR is possible after 3 years - and a grant can take a long time (years) and you are still tied to the old visa conditions until PR is granted or the old visa expires.

This can be far worse than any financial bonds imposed on top.

[wheels_down]

Please tell me there is more to that $59k FO figure?

59k? That’s it? Flight Pay?

Single would be a bit tight let alone a mortgage with family.

[JohnnoP]

I'm sure they throw in hefty Christmas bonuses as well....

[marreeman]

I must be missing something, 10 years of aapa running & 20 plus coarses run & 223 cadets graduated. In the spill for aapa many moons ago, aapa was born to stop Rex having a pilot shortage!

[transition_alt]

Please tell me there is more to that $59k FO figure?

59k? That’s it? Flight Pay?

Single would be a bit tight let alone a mortgage with family.

Year 1 = 60k plus DTA (Average 15-20k) plus allowances.

A standard year for a first year FO (DE) will earn 75-80. Hasn’t been unheard of guys earning 100k+ In recent times...

Some year 3+ Captain’s pushing 160k-180k.

Not as bad as it seems, but they work unnecessarily hard for it. There definitely needs to be some sort of pay rise.

[ao767]

Beached AZ is spot on.
6 years ago with 15,000+ hours including 12k+ jet command and Saab endorsed when they were complaining about no pilots in Australia and having to try Russian pilots I applied offering 2 years and did not even get the benefit of a reply other than a bounce back email that application had been received. Their recruitment department is as useless as ..... They have no one to blame but their lack of respect to actually reply to qualified potential crew.

[zanthrus]

Rex's ASIAN owners need to be held to account by Australia and FORCED to pay decent wages and PRIORITISE AUSTRALIAN Pilots over foreign imports. F#CK those Singapore C#nts!
Before someone flames me be honest, you are all thinking it. Just that no one has the guts to say it!

[Ladloy]

Year 1 = 60k plus DTA (Average 15-20k) plus allowances.

A standard year for a first year FO (DE) will earn 75-80. Hasn’t been unheard of guys earning 100k+ In recent times...

Some year 3+ Captain’s pushing 160k-180k.

Not as bad as it seems, but they work unnecessarily hard for it. There definitely needs to be some sort of pay rise.



True that is base salary. The addition allowances for FO is probably only for Sydney as they're stacked in all other bases. I'd say 10k max addition now. Captains working full hours would be pushing 160+ but sacrificing any sort of lifestyle. The overtime is not sustainable as you can see by the current captains burning out and the company struggling to cope.

[lucille]

Pay is not as bad as I thought - unless you’re Sydney based. As far getting burned out? Overwork, min rest and chronic fatigue is the new normal all over the world. I blame efficient computerised rostering systems for this.

Sadly, it’s got to the stage now that pilots have only one commodity to sell - their health.

[Berealgetreal]

Dejavu - you really do have a **** attitude. My point is NOT about loyalty to Rex or any other 2nd or 3rd level operator. My point, which you have totally missed is that its not just airlines doing the screwing. Pilots are good at it too and it goes both ways. GET IT? And its not just at the lower levels - I know 2 guys who have been with one of our jet carriers for just 6 months but are not based where they want to be, so they are both doing interviews now for another airline. So they have no qualms about screwing over the airline that just trained them. Is that right or wrong???????? That's not my point - my point is that for every pilot screwed by an airline as Darky accused Rex of, there is a pilot screwing the other way. Get my point now Deja??? So take your boohoo and stick it up your arse.


I’ve observed that pilots are very loyal initially but over time get nailed one to many times and at a certain point decide it’s going to go back the other way.

Vast majority however are very loyal and do whatever they can to make the place a success. What airlines get away with wouldn’t be tolerated in other industries.

Having said that some of the sick rates wouldn’t be tolerated in other industries, so it’s a two way street.

[DropYourSocks]

Horse :mad:

With 2700 hours TT mostly Multi crew above 5700 and time on type, I can't even get an Interview :ugh:
I guess if you can't be em, join em. Sadly time to apply for the E3.
This country is :mad:ed!!

Come on over Beached Az, the water is warm :ok:

[bafanguy]

I guess if you can't be em, join em. Sadly time to apply for the E3.

Yep...at least give it a serious look. :ok:

[transition_alt]

True that is base salary. The addition allowances for FO is probably only for Sydney as they're stacked in all other bases. I'd say 10k max addition now. Captains working full hours would be pushing 160+ but sacrificing any sort of lifestyle. The overtime is not sustainable as you can see by the current captains burning out and the company struggling to cope.

10-15k is still the average travel allowance for the 3 big bases. Forget anything near that if you’re in Queensland. Perth may come close.

FO figures I quoted are still relevant. The overtime just isn’t there at the moment. Over the past 2-3 years they could’ve expected 20-30k additional overtime. That’s how they were earning over 100k. Some guys got to 130.

Captain’s in all bases are definitely getting burnt out. But only the ones who choose to do the work. But hey, money is a huge driver. If crewing call and offer you to pax to Sydney for a 2 sector overnight instead of your 6 sector overnight in your home base for an extra $1000, while sitting in the back of a 737 for most of the time, why wouldn’t you?

The Sydney captains are getting very smart. They manage to make all this extra money by working days off and getting taken off rostered shifts as a result. Some are actually working LESS than what was originally rostered while earning more cash.

[Ladloy]

10-15k is still the average travel allowance for the 3 big bases. Forget anything near that if you’re in Queensland. Perth may come close.

FO figures I quoted are still relevant. The overtime just isn’t there at the moment. Over the past 2-3 years they could’ve expected 20-30k additional overtime. That’s how they were earning over 100k. Some guys got to 130.

Captain’s in all bases are definitely getting burnt out. But only the ones who choose to do the work. But hey, money is a huge driver. If crewing call and offer you to pax to Sydney for a 2 sector overnight instead of your 6 sector overnight in your home base for an extra $1000, while sitting in the back of a 737 for most of the time, why wouldn’t you?

The Sydney captains are getting very smart. They manage to make all this extra money by working days off and getting taken off rostered shifts as a result. Some are actually working LESS than what was originally rostered while earning more cash.

You sound like an ADL Capt, those who get the best deal out of anyone in the network. What Sydney captains? There are little to none left.

[wheels_down]

If it’s so good in Sydney then why does nobody want it? Is it the house prices? It’s not much different to Melbourne now

[transition_alt]

If it’s so good in Sydney then why does nobody want it? Is it the house prices? It’s not much different to Melbourne now

Its not good in Sydney, that’s why.

Work harder than any other base for the same pay. A pilot doing 50 hours a month in say Perth will earn the same as a Sydney captain doing 90 hours per month.
You’d be stupid to bid for a Sydney command when you can bid for another base, get the command and be in Sydney 3 weeks of the month anyway and not be forced to work your a** off.

[niksingh13]

Year 1 = 60k plus DTA (Average 15-20k) plus allowances.

A standard year for a first year FO (DE) will earn 75-80. Hasn’t been unheard of guys earning 100k+ In recent times...

Some year 3+ Captain’s pushing 160k-180k.

Not as bad as it seems, but they work unnecessarily hard for it. There definitely needs to be some sort of pay rise.


Hi mate, thanks for the info above. I was thinking about entering as a cadet at REX. On their faq's page they say to look at the 2014 enterprise bargaining agreement to find salaries for FO's and Captains. But considering it is 2022, I was wondering where I can find the payscales and yearly incremental salaries - like the ones you have listed above. That would be a great help in allowing me decide whether to pursue the cadetship.
Thanks

Kind Regards
Nik

[Double_Clutch]

Think there is enough info on here to steer away from REX….. my suggestion, look elsewhere

[Ladloy]

Hi mate, thanks for the info above. I was thinking about entering as a cadet at REX. On their faq's page they say to look at the 2014 enterprise bargaining agreement to find salaries for FO's and Captains. But considering it is 2022, I was wondering where I can find the payscales and yearly incremental salaries - like the ones you have listed above. That would be a great help in allowing me decide whether to pursue the cadetship.
Thanks

Kind Regards
Nik
That's the EBA they're currently on. It's several years expired and the company refuses to negotiate.