Speculation at QF

[f1yhigh]

Rumour has it that QF 737s will get replaced by the older JQ Airbuses as JQ get the new aircraft on order. What's more curious is that some seem to believe that Network will slowly take over domestic mainline. If there is any truth to this, how much life is remaining in the JQ Airbuses? Are they a good replacement for the 737s?

[dr dre]

Rumour has it that QF 737s will get replaced by the older JQ Airbuses as JQ get the new aircraft on order. What's more curious is that some seem to believe that Network will slowly take over domestic mainline. If there is any truth to this, how much life is remaining in the JQ Airbuses? Are they a good replacement for the 737s?

Zero truth to that rumour that has floating around for a while and has been debunked before.

Network can barely crew and keep a handful of geriatric F100’s and JQ’s hand me down 320s in the sky let alone replace an entire domestic airline.

We might as well spread a rumour that Airlines of Tasmania will be receiving 99+ A321XLRs to be operated on a below award wage contract...

[beached az]

We might as well spread a rumour that Airlines of Tasmania will be receiving 99+ A321XLRs to be operated on a below award wage contract...

Actually that part is true :) :) :)

[600ft-lb]

No this is the actual fact.

Jetstar will be getting the a380's and they are pulling out the recent reconfig and making the whole thing economy so they can ship out 700 bogans to bali at a time, the 787 just isn't cutting it.

[777Nine]

No this is the actual fact.

Jetstar will be getting the a380's and they are pulling out the recent reconfig and making the whole thing economy so they can ship out 700 bogans to bali at a time, the 787 just isn't cutting it.

That actually made me LOL.

[Blueskymine]

Well I wouldn’t be surprised if QF did take the older ones to get a beachhead going until the new ones start arriving.

If QF didn’t get 320s, they’d be getting some Max’s very very cheap. Which would be very short sighted, as the 321 xlr would be a fantastic addition to the fleet.

The hopes may be pinned on the 797, but that really could just turn out to be a 767 max.

[unobtanium]

Zero truth to that rumour that has floating around for a while and has been debunked before.

Network can barely crew and keep a handful of geriatric F100’s and JQ’s hand me down 320s in the sky let alone replace an entire domestic airline.

We might as well spread a rumour that Airlines of Tasmania will be receiving 99+ A321XLRs to be operated on a below award wage contract...

Why not? Offer enough $ and people will sign up, and entire airline can be created quickly, from pilots to engineers, all wearing the Qantas ID with their various contracting company at the bottom.

Still cheaper and more productive than an ageing legacy workforce. Everything is in QF colors so the flying public will not notice. This has been proven time and again, Qantas Link, Network, Cobham, people still think they're flying Qantas.

[Oriana]

Boeing will make Qantas 'an offer they can't refuse' and basically sell them 737 MAX for fire sale prices.

No need to retrain a whole fleet.

[Bootstrap1]

Does anyone have any gossip about the 1200 middle management jobs to as per Nine news, yet the the company has debunked that number with nothing to back it up.

1200 managers is a good start. Anyone in an operational area knows that the place runs like clockwork over Xmas when middle management is away so why stop at 1200?

But seriously does anyone have anything to add to the news that is not news.

[AerialPerspective]

Well I wouldn’t be surprised if QF did take the older ones to get a beachhead going until the new ones start arriving.

If QF didn’t get 320s, they’d be getting some Max’s very very cheap. Which would be very short sighted, as the 321 xlr would be a fantastic addition to the fleet.

The hopes may be pinned on the 797, but that really could just turn out to be a 767 max.

I'm a big Boeing supporter but I've always thought that the A320 being used in large numbers at JQ (not far off the number of 737-838s operated by QF), that it would make sense for QF to buy the A320neo and A321neo XLR, if only from a Group commonality point of view. I still prefer the Boeing but the prospect of A320s with ULDs is a much better proposition than bulk compartment on the 737 with magic carpet.

[Australopithecus]

Why not? Offer enough $ and people will sign up, and entire airline can be created quickly, from pilots to engineers, all wearing the Qantas ID with their various contracting company at the bottom.


Offer me 8% more on the same terms and I would even sign up. Oh wait.

[Australopithecus]

I'm a big Boeing supporter but I've always thought that the A320 being used in large numbers at JQ (not far off the number of 737-838s operated by QF), that it would make sense for QF to buy the A320neo and A321neo XLR, if only from a Group commonality point of view. I still prefer the Boeing but the prospect of A320s with ULDs is a much better proposition than bulk compartment on the 737 with magic carpet.

The other only problem with that is the Boeing offer is the snakebitten Max. Who really wants to operate a 1965 piece of crap in 2045? Not a huuuuge fan of the Airbus, but it beats the 737 by any metric except training costs. Which would likely be offset by ground handling savings in 8-10 years. Not many pilots are giddy with excitement to go from a 320 to a 737.

The A321 NEO has no Boeing equivalent anymore (757). The current thinking on the NMA aircraft is a revamped 767-400, despite the lack of a suitable engine. Boeing bet the company with the 787, lost the bet, and were then unable to make a new narrowbody. It looks like the resulting 737 Max debacle will in turn render them unable to make any wholly new type for a very long time, if ever.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Rumour has it that QF 737s will get replaced by the older JQ Airbuses as JQ get the new aircraft on order. What's more curious is that some seem to believe that Network will slowly take over domestic mainline. If there is any truth to this, how much life is remaining in the JQ Airbuses? Are they a good replacement for the 737s?


You’d be forgiven for thinking it’s EBA time.

[unobtanium]

Offer me 8% more on the same terms and I would even sign up. Oh wait.

Havn't been contracting much have you?

[vee1-rotate]

No this is the actual fact.

Jetstar will be getting the a380's and they are pulling out the recent reconfig and making the whole thing economy so they can ship out 700 bogans to bali at a time, the 787 just isn't cutting it.

Can the bogan A380 flight's just be one way though?

[Australopithecus]

Havn't been contracting much have you?

Not for a few decades. It was an EBA joke.

[AerialPerspective]

The other only problem with that is the Boeing offer is the snakebitten Max. Who really wants to operate a 1965 piece of crap in 2045? Not a huuuuge fan of the Airbus, but it beats the 737 by any metric except training costs. Which would likely be offset by ground handling savings in 8-10 years. Not many pilots are giddy with excitement to go from a 320 to a 737.

The A321 NEO has no Boeing equivalent anymore (757). The current thinking on the NMA aircraft is a revamped 767-400, despite the lack of a suitable engine. Boeing bet the company with the 787, lost the bet, and were then unable to make a new narrowbody. It looks like the resulting 737 Max debacle will in turn render them unable to make any wholly new type for a very long time, if ever.

Sorry, the "only problem with that is the snakebitten Max"... I thought I was saying go for the A320 or A321 or a mix. i.e. I believe I was agreeing with you...

[packapoo]

Can the bogan A380 flight's just be one way though?

Well if you stuff their bags full of what that bogan chick took with her, it could probably turn out that way.

[Australopithecus]

Sorry, the "only problem with that is the snakebitten Max"... I thought I was saying go for the A320 or A321 or a mix. i.e. I believe I was agreeing with you...

I see now that you were. Allow me to then be on record as agreeing with you.

[Buster Hyman]

No need to retrain a whole fleet.
It's worked well so far...:oh:

[Going Boeing]

My own speculation.

There are currently 18 A321 LR's and 36 A321 XLR's on order (firm) for the Qantas Group. The majority of these will go to JQ to replace the B787-8 on Asian routes - the B787's will transfer to mainline as replacements for the older A330's which are coming up for retirement but there has been no announcements about ordering more A330's or looking for a replacement. It's a good way to get mainline to pay for the heavy maintenance checks on the B787's.

At least 15 of those A321 orders will probably go to mainline to replace the 15 B737-800's that were ordered after the Ansett collapse, these are the oldest in the domestic fleet. This will give mainline an aircraft sized between the B737-800 & the A330-200 - they have been missing the B767 ever since they retired that fleet. Once the A321's have established themselves in mainline operations, the rest of the B737 fleet will be replaced by A320's & A321's over a 15 year period.

Mainline Domestic will eventually be an all Airbus operation and International will be all Boeing (after 2027) as the B777-8/9's will be ordered to replace the A380's and B787-10's will be ordered to replace the remaining A330's (the B747's have already been replaced - APPARENTLY).

There will be many that disagree with this but, time will tell.

[Going Boeing]

The two reasons that I’ve heard why the B777 will get the Sunrise gig:

The cost benefits of the B787/B777 single endorsement are more significant (& longer) than the A330/A350 cross crewing. The A330 will be retired by 2025 and there is quite a technology difference between the two Airbuses.

Also, the current QF management have a bit of an anti Rolls-Royce thing going and that’s the only engine available on the A350.

The fact that the A321’s have been already ordered indicates that the B737 Max won’t be chosen, irrespective of how good a deal Boeing offers. The Max is also very poisoned in the minds of the travelling public.

[AerialPerspective]

My own speculation.

There are currently 18 A321 LR's and 36 A321 XLR's on order (firm) for the Qantas Group. The majority of these will go to JQ to replace the B787-8 on Asian routes - the B787's will transfer to mainline as replacements for the older A330's which are coming up for retirement but there has been no announcements about ordering more A330's or looking for a replacement. It's a good way to get mainline to pay for the heavy maintenance checks on the B787's.

At least 15 of those A321 orders will probably go to mainline to replace the 15 B737-800's that were ordered after the Ansett collapse, these are the oldest in the domestic fleet. This will give mainline an aircraft sized between the B737-800 & the A330-200 - they have been missing the B767 ever since they retired that fleet. Once the A321's have established themselves in mainline operations, the rest of the B737 fleet will be replaced by A320's & A321's over a 15 year period.

Mainline Domestic will eventually be an all Airbus operation and International will be all Boeing (after 2027) as the B777-8/9's will be ordered to replace the A380's and B787-10's will be ordered to replace the remaining A330's (the B747's have already been replaced - APPARENTLY).

There will be many that disagree with this but, time will tell.

That sounds pretty logical actually. The only small disagreement I'd have is that the shorter range (-10s) and some of the -8s will probably be used on Domestic as well if they are replacing the A330s so I would expect the narrow body mainline QF domestic fleet will be A320/A321neo and the wide body trans-continental duties will be performed by either 787-8 or 787-10 which will give the flexibility of a small or large 787 type wide body to operate in domestic and international. The original plan when the 115 orders/options for 787-8/787-9 was that the -8s would go to JQ and a mix of -8/-9 would go to QF and replace ALL of the A330s and 767s.

As I said in another post, I prefer Boeing but the proposition of the A320/21 and the ULD aspect as well as the efficiency of the aircraft is compelling and will probably win the day. Looking at it from a Group perspective then, "Qantas Group" will have essentially three main aircraft types in numbers - A320/A321, B787-8/-9/-10 and B777-8 or 9. One would expect the A220 will then replace all the F100s and B717s.

[Going Boeing]

Yeah, I agree with your summary AP, the A220 looks the obvious choice for replacing the B717 & F100 fleets.

The B787-10 range is about 1,000NM shorter than the -9 so it’s still enough to reach all the Asian destinations with a full payload. I’ve heard that Boeing is offering a MBRW for the -10 that is a few tonnes higher which will give it more flexibility.

The possibility of domestic flying for the B787 was one of the reasons why AIPA insisted that MDC be retained despite very strong efforts by QF management to get rid of it.

[swh]

II still prefer the Boeing but the prospect of A320s with ULDs is a much better proposition than bulk compartment on the 737 with magic carpet.

No one ever mentions how expensive the 737 really is when you factor in the compo payouts for that manual loading.

[Lapon]

Yeah, I agree with your summary AP, the A220 looks the obvious choice for replacing the B717 & F100 fleets.
.... except Qantas wont pay what Airbus can and are asking for them. Joyce basically said as much in the media release.

My money is on the 737 max (surely they will be giving them away for a while) complemented by Embraer (Boeing) for the 717. The F100s probably replaced with more high time 320s ex Jetstar.