View Full Version : Flying into MEL? Beware......
ymml h3992/19 obst groups of trees at flw locations: 478ft amsl
brg 304 mag 1.3nm fm arp infringes trans sfc by up to 0.3ft
465ft amsl brg 305 mag 1.2nm fm arp infringes trans sfc by
up to 2.6ft. 370ft amsl brg 178 mag 1.1nm fm arp infringes
apch sfc by up to 3.6ft. 561ft amsl brg 326 mag 1.8nm fm
arp infringes horiz sfc by up to 43.63ft. Amd en route sup
australia. 27 aug 07:18 2019 until perm. Created: 27 aug
07:18 2019
ymml h3997/19 obst groups of trees at flw locations: 439ft amsl
brg 018 mag 0.9nm fm arp infringes transitional sfc by up
to 3.9ft. 434ft amsl brg 022 mag 0.9nm fm arp infringes apch
sfc by up to 0.328ft. 551ft amsl brg 328 mag 2.0nm fm arp
infringes horizontal sfc by up to 33.8ft. 459ft amsl brg
291 mag 1.8nm fm arp infringes transitional sfc by up to
2.9ft. 27 aug 09:25 2019 until 28 nov 04:00 2019 estimated.
Created: 27 aug 09:25 2019
The Banjo
4th Nov 2019, 10:21
Birdstrikes can be a bigger problem if the bird is it's nest at the time of impact.
Capn Bloggs
4th Nov 2019, 10:58
Kogan has good prices on chainsaws at the moment.
wheels_down
4th Nov 2019, 11:23
ymml h3997/19 obst ice cream man r16 app lights 5ft bware if dhead pilot ushoots by 1000 might hit van
BuzzBox
4th Nov 2019, 11:26
Better watch out for those damned trees in PER too:
YPPH H5210/19 RWY 06 APPROACH SURFACE INFRINGEMENTS TREE 131FT
AMSL BRG 242 MAG 0.94NM FM ARP TREE 170FT AMSL BRG 242 MAG
1.27NM FM ARP TREE 146FT AMSL BRG 245 MAG 1.07NM FM ARP TREE
147FT AMSL BRG 246 MAG 1.10NM FM ARP TREE 143FT AMSL BRG
248 MAG 1.03NM FM ARP TREE 126FT AMSL BRG 250 MAG 0.94NM
FM ARP TREE 146FT AMSL BRG 249 MAG 1.10NM FM ARP TREE 124FT
AMSL BRG 252 MAG 0.95NM FM ARP TREE 139FT AMSL BRG 253 MAG
1.07NM FM ARP RWY 24 APPROACH SURFACE INFRINGEMENTS TREE
100FT AMSL BRG 54 MAG 1.12NM FM ARP TREE 104FT AMSL BRG 55
MAG 1.15NM FM ARP. 31 OCT 10:23 2019 UNTIL 31 JAN 09:00 2020
ESTIMATED. CREATED: 31 OCT 10:23 2019
YPPH H5211/19 MULTIPLE TREES INFRINGING TRANSITIONAL SFC TREE
BRG 018 MAG 1.03NM FM ARP 85FT AMSL TREE BRG 041 MAG 0.90NM
FM ARP 97FT AMSL TREE BRG 042 MAG 0.93NM FM ARP 101FT AMSL
TREE BRG 042 MAG 0.95NM FM ARP 108FT AMSL TREE BRG 043 MAG
0.92NM FM ARP 94FT AMSL TREE BRG 044 MAG 1.01NM FM ARP 98FT
AMSL TREE BRG 044 MAG 1.01NM FM ARP 96FT AMSL TREE BRG 045
MAG 1.05NM FM ARP 92FT AMSL TREE BRG 045 MAG 1.13NM FM ARP
111FT AMSL TREE BRG 056 MAG 0.65NM FM ARP 101FT AMSL TREE
BRG 057 MAG 0.72NM FM ARP 100FT AMSL TREE BRG 058 MAG 1.10NM
FM ARP 105FT AMSL TREE BRG 059 MAG 1.15NM FM ARP 114FT AMSL
TREE BRG 060 MAG 1.27NM FM ARP 133FT AMSL TREE BRG 194 MAG
1.31NM FM ARP 120FT AMSL TREE BRG 194 MAG 1.36NM FM ARP 102FT
AMSL TREE BRG 204 MAG 1.92NM FM ARP 159FT AMSL TREE BRG 247
MAG 0.48NM FM ARP 103FT AMSL TREE BRG 248 MAG 0.44NM FM ARP
115FT AMSL TREE BRG 249 MAG 0.41NM FM ARP 110FT AMSL TREE
BRG 249 MAG 0.42NM FM ARP 111FT AMSL TREE BRG 250 MAG 0.4NM
FM ARP 108FT AMSL TREE BRG 268 MAG 0.67NM FM ARP 128FT AMSL.
31 OCT 10:37 2019 UNTIL 31 JAN 09:00 2020 ESTIMATED. CREATED:
31 OCT 10:37 2019
wheels_down
4th Nov 2019, 11:28
I sniff Lawyers!
BuzzBox
4th Nov 2019, 11:37
If they were actually concerned about safety, maybe they’d cut the f@#kers down (or at least prune them) instead of issuing bullish!t NOTAMs!
wishiwasupthere
4th Nov 2019, 12:02
Wasn’t one of the outcomes of the Air Canada near landing on a taxiway at SFO too many unnecessary NOTAMs?
If you are low enough to hit those trees, I think you may have bigger problems going on than a few trees!
Global Aviator
4th Nov 2019, 20:22
Cannot see the wood for the trees.........
dr dre
4th Nov 2019, 21:25
The Problem Of BS Notams (https://ops.group/blog/the-problem-of-bull****-notams/)
j3pipercub
4th Nov 2019, 21:55
Briefing Package 63 pages. Of that 63 pages, 38 pages of notams. Of that 38 pages, the relevant notams could have fit on 2 pages max. Still had to dig through and find them. The Opsgroup are onto something.
j3
Chronic Snoozer
4th Nov 2019, 22:12
A simple diagram would be much more useful.
That’s why I get the FO to plot them all before flight😉.
Typical Australian bul!5h/t as usual🤬, very embarrassing.
pinkpanther1
5th Nov 2019, 00:35
Nothing more pathetic than these sorts of notams. Goes to show the emphasis is on ass covering rather than providing relevant info to crew. The chances of missing an important NOTAM are exponentially increased when amongst this rubbish.
Talk about a pet hate! 😩
triadic
5th Nov 2019, 00:49
The RAPACs have raised this a number of times and ASA says that their software system at this time cannot do what is being asked. eg: in NAIPS the pilot should be able to ask for NOTAMs that are applicable to his/her flight. eg: Class D/G below A100 or 50nm either side of track. Guess we have to wait.
and yes, it is for legal but covering that we see so many that are basically irrelevant.
VR-HFX
5th Nov 2019, 01:29
Thought that's what the crash axe was for. Short handled version for shredding NOTAMS and with the extension handle for ppruning.
Chocks Away
5th Nov 2019, 04:40
If they were actually concerned about safety, maybe they’d cut the f@#kers down (or at least prune them) instead of issuing bullish!t NOTAMs!
BuzzBox, don't be stupid.
Don't you know the Greenies and Leftards are running this country now and infiltrated all levels of Bureacracies from State Govt; Councils etc including Airport Boards... heck they haven't even done a THIRD of the hazard Reduction & Winter back-burning they were meant to have done and that fact was only realeased on a FOI request, as they've tried to hide it from the public in Victoria. All other States are just as bad and hiding the truth. There's some type of frog in those trees, I bet :ugh:
Buster Hyman
5th Nov 2019, 07:08
So, if the airlines had to increase sign on times in order to allow for these 'extensive' NOTAMS, would there be some motivation for the aforementioned airlines to be proactive in this instance?
(Or, is this just as silly as suggesting they cut them down?)
Berealgetreal
5th Nov 2019, 07:34
I’ve observed the majority don’t read them and no longer have any idea of the latest manual changes as they update hit update on the iPad. Electronically bombarded with huge amounts of information much of it completely irrelevant to the role.
Pilots not only lost control of their conditions but also the way their job is done. Magenta generation, ARBEY time, COBT and ordering vacuuum cleaner batteries for cabin crew whilst doing take off figures. Ludicrous, zero leadership.
The work creation schemes continue.
The Butcher's Dog
5th Nov 2019, 20:17
I’ve observed the majority don’t read them and no longer have any idea of the latest manual changes as they update hit update on the iPad. Electronically bombarded with huge amounts of information much of it completely irrelevant to the role.
Pilots not only lost control of their conditions but also the way their job is done. Magenta generation, ARBEY time, COBT and ordering vacuuum cleaner batteries for cabin crew whilst doing take off figures. Ludicrous, zero leadership.
The work creation schemes continue.
So true! And for those that do carefully scroll through the garbage to find the relevant with the resultant pressure it puts on an on-time departure - you can see how it all unfolds that most just don't bother and it becomes the new lowered norm. Our NOTAM service is like reading through the terms of End User Licence Agreement! Riveting!!
I’ve observed the majority don’t read them and no longer have any idea of the latest manual changes as they update hit update on the iPad. Electronically bombarded with huge amounts of information much of it completely irrelevant to the role.
Pilots not only lost control of their conditions but also the way their job is done. Magenta generation, ARBEY time, COBT and ordering vacuuum cleaner batteries for cabin crew whilst doing take off figures. Ludicrous, zero leadership.
The work creation schemes continue.
On the subject of iPads as EFB - do you have NOTAMs displayed in Jeppesen Flight Deck Pro ? The app organizes them by the applicable chart and decodes them into plain English. It doesn’t completely solve the problem. But it makes it more manageable.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x2000/1dd22129_79e5_4a11_9def_d59c68c6b9a8_45e20c96a309158783dcdfb 5d7765c284aa936cf.jpeg
73qanda
5th Nov 2019, 21:45
I agree it’s a safety issue. I make a point of reading all the info that the regs require me to read. I do it quickly and as efficiently as I can. I then walk as expeditiously as I can through security and to the gate, this takes between 15 and twenty minutes. By now I am about ten minutes behind the companies timing schedule.
At the gate a young employee of a third party contractor checks my ID to make sure I’m not an imposter and then I can make my way down the aerobridge. When I do this I meet a direct employee of the Airline who often theatrically looks at their watch or comments on their desire for an on time departure. In one ( unusual) case she actually put her hand on my back and pushed me towards the aircraft in an attempt to speed up my walking pace. They normally have a clipboard and note down the time I board the aircraft where I meet my crew for the first time.
Having been thoroughly trained in the importance of teamwork and leadership I call the crew together to brief the day ahead. This is a major cause of frustration for the gate staff as there is an expectation that boarding will commence as soon as I step foot on the aircraft. Briefing is kept brief, perhaps one minute to ensure everyone is fit ( as per the regs).
Most of the time my crew are happy to come together and the tone is set to relax and go about our jobs at a sensible pace, sometimes, the pressure ( from emails and ground staff) has been too much for them and they are already rushing before the first sector.
Most of the time I get away on time, sometimes I’m a few minutes late.
Conflicting Standard Operating Procedures has been a known hazard for thirty years yet they are alive and well with no attempt to rectify as long as the KPI is OTP.
CurtainTwitcher
5th Nov 2019, 21:47
Right on the money Berealgetreal.
The issue of excessive NOTAMs was a contributing factor in the KSFO Taxiway OverflightAir Canada Flight 759 incident (NTSB report (https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AIR1801.pdf)), a hair's breath away from being the greatest accident in aviation history.
Airbubba
5th Nov 2019, 21:49
Wasn’t one of the outcomes of the Air Canada near landing on a taxiway at SFO too many unnecessary NOTAMs?
It was indeed a finding of the NTSB investigation. NTSB Chairman Sumwalt is a retired USAir captain.
NTSB chairman Robert Sumwalt called the Notam system in the U.S. “messed up” this week during a hearing on the July 7, 2017 incident at San Francisco International Airport (SFO) in which an Air Canada Airbus A320 nearly landed on a crowded taxiway. The crew mistook the taxiway as their cleared runway—28R—because Runway 28L was closed. The pilots failed to catch that note on page eight of the 27-page list of the SFO Notams.
After acknowledging the “crew didn’t comprehend the Notams,” Sumwalt then read a verbose and complicated entry that limited a portion of a taxiway to aircraft with a wingspan of 214 feet or less. “Why is this even on there?” he asked. “That's what Notams are: they’re a bunch of garbage that no one pays any attention to,” adding that they’re often written in a language that only computer programmers would understand.
Sumwalt also relayed a recent experience he had flying the jumpseat into North Carolina’s Charlotte/Douglas International Airport, saying, “There were pages and pages and pages of Notams, including one for birds in the vicinity of the airport…when are there not birds in the vicinity of an airport?”
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-09-28/ntsb-chairman-calls-notams-garbage (https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-09-28/ntsb-chairman-calls-notams-garbage)
Capn Bloggs
6th Nov 2019, 02:20
So, if the airlines had to increase sign on times in order to allow for these 'extensive' NOTAMS, would there be some motivation for the aforementioned airlines to be proactive in this instance?
(Or, is this just as silly as suggesting they cut them down?)
Cutting them down isn't silly, Buster. Have a look at the huge swaths of land around airports that are bulldozed, with thousands of trees flattened, for big warehouses. Nobody blinks an eye at that...
benjam
6th Nov 2019, 06:58
If they were actually concerned about safety, maybe they’d cut the f@#kers down (or at least prune them) instead of issuing bullish!t NOTAMs!
As opposed to PPruning them - like we are here :)
That’s why I get the FO to plot them all before flight😉.
Typical Australian bul!5h/t as usual🤬, very embarrassing.
what? You think Australia is the only Country issuing stupid Notams like that!!!
Global Aviator
7th Nov 2019, 10:52
As opposed to PPruning them - like we are here :)
Give that man a beer!!!
OMAAbound
8th Nov 2019, 06:32
I see the trees have finally grown back after emirates did the council out of a job in 2009!
I would like to know how they got the height of the twigs and leaves to 2 decimal places, when the don't know how far away they are.
I suppose they surveyed them all on a calm wind day...?