UK think tank threatens private jet ops

[ETOPS]

I realise that study pieces like this don't nescessarily result in action being taken but you can see the way politics could use issues around GA to win votes.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/04/call-for-ban-on-uk-private-jets-by-2025-as-flight-traffic-soars

[ShyTorque]

Banning private ops in UK because the return trip might be empty? Could result in a lot of higher rate tax payers taking a one way trip out of UK.
Hopefully if Komrad Corbyn ever comes to power, he'll hitch a lift..

[His dudeness]

That serves 2 things simultaneously, so could be a very real thing in a not so far future:

serves the envy and makes some small brained people think it would change something in connection with "the climate". The hysteria is unbelievable, a few weeks ago "Der Spiegel" online had an article headlined: "humanity to loose its command of the climate". As if we ever had it. This is one of the most respected news outlet in Germany.

[Good Business Sense]

All ok as long as all the cheap holiday flights can't fly if you can't fill all of the seats both ways - of course, there is not much more polluting that empty trains, busses and ferries, et all - which happens to be most of the time !

[733driver]

All ok as long as all the cheap holiday flights can't fly if you can't fill all of the seats both ways - of course, there is not much more polluting that empty trains, busses and ferries, et all - which happens to be most of the time !

These "whatoubatisms" won't help us at all. This has nothing to do with empty economy class seats on holiday flights, of which there are not many, in my experience (empty seats that is), or less than full trains, busses or ferries (Do you have statistics do back up your claims by the way?)

There is no getting away from the fact that private jets, are very, very wasteful in terms of fuel and it can't be good for the environment, regardless of the climate debate. Empty legs even more so. I could drive my car for many years with the fuel burned on the positioning fights I do in just one week. So let's not try to deflect form that but acknowledge it instead. I don't think private aviation will be going anywhere soon but it will have to get ready for some tough questions and be part of the solution.

[EatMyShorts!]

The amount of fuel used by private aviation is insignificant, compared to the airlines.

Just give us synthetic aviation fuel and we will be green again.

[Cambridge172]

All of business aviation globally is responsible for about 0.04% of global emissions. UK business aviation alone is probably 0.000...%, whatever, you get the drift. This is an unworkable, farcical, almost certainly illegal, pointless proposal. Just ignore - political bull stoked up by the crazy times we're living in here.

Far better to make 'UK plc' global leaders in development of hybrid powerplant technologies, electric motor and battery technologies, biofuel and alternative fuel systems and mass production technology, eVTOL development etc. etc. Some of all that is here already, but it could be so much more and it could certainly be accelerated. Financial investment, incentives - 'carrots' for the world's foremost expertise in these sectors to be based and concentrated in the UK and be led by the UK, is what is required, not this claptrap about banning anything. Put Government money where your mouth is - if you are in power that is. Current lot have stumped up some millions recently, but what is needed is billions. Cancellation of HS2 should do it - a good $100 Billion saved in a flash.

[pax britanica]

I can understand the reaction tot his and living close to Farnborough I understand Corporate Aviation can also benefit communities through jobs and local expenditure- crew layover accom etc.
However in today's world you do have to be aware that you are a pretty easy target, on things like emissions per person on many corporate jets are a lot higher than airlines for obvious reasons and when you start looking at 737/A319 sizes it is a huge difference pretty indefensible to claim its a business tool. As indeed it is when you see a lot of bizjets from US heading to Caribbean islands
So while I have sympathy and understanding for your position and like aviation anyway I think the corporate sector needs to prepare some defences , a lot more popular to attack the rich than weekenders going to Amsterdam on Easyjet.

[Good Business Sense]

These "whatoubatisms" won't help us at all. This has nothing to do with empty economy class seats on holiday flights, of which there are not many, in my experience (empty seats that is), or less than full trains, busses or ferries (Do you have statistics do back up your claims by the way?)

There is no getting away from the fact that private jets, are very, very wasteful in terms of fuel and it can't be good for the environment, regardless of the climate debate. Empty legs even more so. I could drive my car for many years with the fuel burned on the positioning fights I do in just one week. So let's not try to deflect form that but acknowledge it instead. I don't think private aviation will be going anywhere soon but it will have to get ready for some tough questions and be part of the solution.

Actually, I do have copious amounts of data - been dealing with this now for over 15 years due to the operation I run. Been to court as well. Had Ministers of Transport quote our operation as an example of sustainable transport. A great deal of the work we've done is quoted worldwide.

Much of this is about zealots pursuing their strongly held views to extremes - they don't like aviation. Some of the claims have truth in them but the hypocrisy is shocking. Having fought many challenges legally I have found that, with these groups, the truth is that they don't like your mess but their mess is ok and that any lie is ok to win the argument. That's where the whataboutism, if that's what you wish to term it, comes in. We can all do better.

As for ferries and trains etc etc - out of peak times (daily or seasonal or worse, both) they're off the scale per person, in terms of pollution. If you live in remote areas and/or with a low population the numbers are even worse. To make matters worse - add on the transport subsidies these areas normally receive (n.b. the activities which created the wealth to provide the money for the subsidies).

Comparisons need deep scrutiny and the whole system and associated infrastructure needs to be taken into consideration - for example, with cars you need roads, bridges etc etc - concrete/steel etc etc (concrete 8% of worldwide emissions with aviation 2.5%) ??

Best

[megan]

Comparisons need deep scrutiny and the whole system and associated infrastructure needs to be taken into consideration - for example, with cars you need roads, bridges etc etc - concrete/steel etc etc (concrete 8% of worldwide emissions with aviation 2.5%)I've seen a figure of 7% for human respiration contribution to CO2 production, wonder if Comrade Corbyn has any suggestions.

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/media.afreeride.org/documents/Jet+Set+Go+Summary.pdf

[sellbydate]

Rough benchmark - one light executive jet doing a short 300 mile trip is roughly resulting in 2 tonnes of CO2 which does same amount of damage as one cow year (in methane). With six passengers, then that's two cow month's damage per passenger on the trip. Meanwhile, you can offset the CO2 with audited, gold-standard trade schemes for a little more than £1/tonne of CO2, so a £2 premium and the trip's impact is offset, neutralised.

Rather than ban things, offer to go vegan for a few months, or prove you've over-offset by say 200% !

[McDoo]

A Ferrari is more polluting than a small hatchback. Let's ban Ferraris and solve climate change 🙄

[ShyTorque]

The pollution is caused by world overpopulation and the excessive demand for meat.
The only answer is cannibalism..

[EatMyShorts!]

Best post so far!

[Good Business Sense]

The pollution is caused by world overpopulation and the excessive demand for meat.
The only answer is cannibalism..

Brilliant ! Therein lies the argument in a nutshell ! We need people like you in parliament !

[ShyTorque]

Brilliant ! Therein lies the argument in a nutshell ! We need people like you in parliament !

Vote for Shyte

......there is no other choice! :ok:

[His dudeness]

The pollution is caused by world overpopulation and the excessive demand for meat.
The only answer is cannibalism..

How do you taste ? Just askin...

[ShyTorque]

Old, quite tough and very gristly....

[Fly Aiprt]

My grandmother told me that human flesh tastes "like pork, a little bit less salty".
Never thought of questioning my grandmother's knowledge...

[megan]

Your GM is correct, Dad dined with head hunters in New Guinea pre war and during the war and said the same.

[His dudeness]

Never thought of questioning my grandmother's knowledge...

Guess one better should not upset your granma then... @shy: I´ll pass then, no offence intended...

[172510]

François Hollande (ex French President) said that when elected he would take the train whenever possible. Elected in May 2012, he took the train twice as far as I remember. In January 2013 he took a jet from Paris to Lille (220 km).

[DirtyProp]

Careful when someone wants to have you for dinner...

09TAIcCqFpg

[angelorange]

Talk to the researchers and profs at UK Universities who specialise in studies into sustainablity and global emissions - they are saying cloud computing emits more than all global aviation emissions combined.

Time to stop the internet, goggle searches, muzak and video streaming, twatter, faceache and pruning!

Fridays4futures should take note - on recycled paper of course, not on latest (throwaway in 2 years ) iphones!

[Private jet]

Computing power given over to "mining Bitcoin" perhaps? We live in interesting times, plenty of manoevers going on behind the scenes. I know that for a fact but it's all "smoke & mirrors" to the electorate, a global one.

[His dudeness]

AUS: private flight to be banned (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/627618-private-flight-banned.html#post10628985)

[Asturias56]

Just a made up "what might happen" post on the Australian thread - do not take serioulsy