VC10 Swept Wing Growth Poster

[Miles Magister]

Guys,

I have been trying to explain swept wing growth to a child of the magenta line and recall that there used to be a very good flight safety poster back in the day which showed the problem using a VC10. Would any of you descent chaps have a copy of the image by chance please?

Thank you

MM

[212man]

Some info here: https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Wing_Tip_Clearance_Hazard

Any incident involving it here: https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/FA7X,_London_City_UK,_2016

Although the references are to the AAIB report, it was in fact almost a copy and paste of the report I wrote for our internal investigation. Watching the CCTV of the event gave as strong an illustration possible of what wing growth looks like in practice!

[k3k3]

Over the years NATO E-3As had a number of incidents where a wingtip and hangar had a coming together, twice at Cold Lake and once at Leuchars that I am aware of, there may well have been others..

[Herod]

I would have put money on it being in "Handling the Big Jets", but looking through my 1973 edition (yes, I'm that old) there is no mention of it.

[Miles Magister]

I have the same edition of HtBJs!! Thank you for the Skybrary links, I have used them but I just seem to remember that that RAF flight Safety poster explaining it with the VC10 was the best picture I have seen.

MM

[RAFEngO74to09]

MOD IFS (RAF) Flight Safety poster Accense 2-71 '"Swept Wing Growth":

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNQIl1PdrRw_yzy6Xsre588Dj-Awnw%3A1572797130039&sa=1&ei=yvq-XbD0AcPatQWAtJGIBA&q=raf+flight+safety+poster+accense+2-71&oq=raf+flight+safety+poster+accense+2-71&gs_l=img.12...0.0..120422...0.0..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz-img.mwU5FxPxyX8&ved=0ahUKEwiwgfXxtc7lAhVDba0KHQBaBEEQ4dUDCAY#imgrc=lrNkfhVW3 xo5gM:&spf=1572797251703

[morton]

Let Google be your friend!
https://www.google.com/search?q=swept+wing+growth+poster+VC10&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitia6xts7lAhW1TxUIHR67CJEQ_AUIEigB&biw=1536&bih=723#imgrc=lrNkfhVW3xo5gM:

Ah! RAFEng posted whilst I was typing. I remember a XV Squadron Buccaneer managed to break its Speedbrake on a HAS whilst turning with wings folded. Beware of swept tail growth?

[jimjim1]

When turning with nose wheel steering, no differential brakes or thrust -

The tightest radius of turn occurs for points abeam the main gear.

Points ahead of the main gear have a larger radius of turn but pull away from objects to the outside as soon as the turn starts. With a swept forward wing you would have the opposite issue. You would need to account for obstructions INSIDE the turn before turning.

Points behind the main gear also have a larger radius of turn but initially move torards the outside as the turn starts. Some busses have a large rear overhang behind the axle and suffer the same effect.

To visualise the effects consider the limiting case with the nose steering wheels at 90 degrees to the direction of travel and with some magic propulsion system that didn't care about that - A tug for example. The size of the effect varies continuously between the two extremes, zero degrees and 90 degrees. In this case the aircraft pivots about the point between the two main landing gears.

Demonstrate it with a vehicle without wings. Much simpler to visualise and the effect is identical.

As ever it been YouTubed already.

Tail Swing Safety for School Bus Drivers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8J-RKh25eI

[Tankertrashnav]

Not VC10s, but Victors - memories of peering out of my little window when taxying at unfamiliar airfields and advising the captain "clear starboard" with my fingers crossed, hoping that we really were :eek:

[Union Jack]

Guys,

I have been trying to explain swept wing growth to a child of the magenta line and recall that there used to be a very good flight safety poster back in the day which showed the problem using a VC10. Would any of you descent chaps have a copy of the image by chance please?

Thank you

MM

Surely at least one major contributor has a copy in the downstairs cloaks....

Jack

[Jhieminga]

The poster was most likely based on this graphic. I'll have to see if I have other examples somewhere.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/821x557/screenshot_2019_11_04_at_14_57_52_4beec8780ee12a7d63c19fbd5d 9f9de066fe4bcd.png

[Miles Magister]

Thank you. The nosewheel track is also a subject which I have had to train too many times and that diagram is useful

[Capn Bloggs]

The nosewheel track is also a subject which I have had to train too many times and that diagram is useful
"Judgemental Over-steer". Google is your friend.

Beware of swept tail growth?
IIRC, with the 146-300, the tail was the issue, with it scribing a wider arc than the wingtip during a min radius turn.

[Jhieminga]

Here's another one, with the VC10 out of service, at least it can serve a purpose in training young 'uns.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/955x615/screenshot_2019_11_10_at_21_53_26_c5e9dd1ce1995f31f0c4443e89 6f9f730361dc8e.png