Is There Any Evidence The RAAF Has A Positive Attitude To GA?

[Sunfish]

Just asking. If the answer is no, then the next question is are the RAAF part of GA's problems?

[DynamicStall]

Sunfish, where on earth do you dream up all this nonsense?

[BigPapi]

You're a very balanced man Sunfish, got a chip on both shoulders.

[Sunfish]

do you have anything in evidence??

[Squawk7700]

Just wanted to post before this thread gets deleted.

[junior.VH-LFA]

Just wanted to post before this thread gets deleted.


I almost took the bait. Then I had my morning coffee and moved on with my life!

[Piston_Broke]

Mr. Doom and Gloom strikes again.

If he won the lottery he'd wring his hands and complain about something .... and blame CASA, ASA, ATSB, RAAF .....

[j3pipercub]

You aren't drawing a long now.

You're cutting down the yew tree so you can craft the longbow yourself.

JFC

j3

[YPJT]

You really are losing the plot

[josephfeatherweight]

I'd swear the bloke drinks too much, but apparently he doesn't touch the grog.
Can you imagine waking up in the morning and deciding to post something like that??
What a miserable existence...

[junior.VH-LFA]

For what it’s worth, perhaps only for interest sake only, a significant number of RAAF leadership past and present have owned and operated their own aircraft. Binskin (previous Chief of Defence Force) and Skidmore (previous Air Commander Australia) own a Birddog and CT-4 respectively. Plenty of GA flying clubs on RAAF bases, with flying lessons, aircraft hire etc, they’re even open to civilian membership. RAAF sponsorship of the cadets, paying for their brand new Diamond DA40’s, and paying for the gas, exposing literally thousands of young kids to flying with FREE trial instructional flights; I can tell you right now the vast majority won’t become RAAF (hopefully some do). There’s even a substantial number of RAAF drivers volunteering their time to fly them (for no pay), spending weekends away from home in a job where I’m already away a lot of the time, going to regional locations to take people flying to give them “the bug.”

All of these things seem to indicate it isn’t that bad Sunfish.

[megle2]

So from the responses there is no evidence that the RAAF is anti GA. Alternately can you show where the RAAF is GA positive

[junior.VH-LFA]

So from the responses there is no evidence that the RAAF is anti GA. Alternately can you show where the RAAF is GA positive

See directly above.

[megle2]

Point taken, I’ll have to speed up my posts

[chance]

GA aircraft make great target practice indicators for the Super Hornet attack radar - we love GA, much better than chasing around Lear 35s.

[YPJT]

For many years RAAF Pearce hosted a flying club on the base. For a number of reasons they had to relocate to Gingin but still supported to an extent by RAAF

[gchriste]

Just asking. If the answer is no, then the next question is are the RAAF part of GA's problems?

Maybe Sunfish it is your constant negative attitude towards ANYTHING that is part of the problem with GA yeah?

[Chronic Snoozer]

Why do you need evidence? What would this evidence look like?
What do you think GA's problems are?
Do you think the RAAF is part of GA's alleged problems?

[Atlas Shrugged]

Is There Any Evidence The Sunfish Has A Positive Attitude To GA?
They're ya go Sunny...... I've fixed the title for you.

Your welcome....

[Sunfish]

Thank you VH-LFA, so the RAAF has a positive attitude to non-RAAF, non - RPT flying. I wasn’t sure that they were part of GA problems or not.

[jonkster]

The RAAF also will pay for their pilots, when they are on duties where they are not getting a lot of hours, to keep their flying skills up, in GA.
Pilots are getting civilian endorsements, doing training, hiring aircraft etc, from GA operators, encouraged and paid for by the RAAF, so putting money back into GA. Good for their pilots, good for GA.

[Ascend Charlie]

Sunfish, I knew General Aviation when he was still Cadet Aviation in the military. He was good then, and still is.

[Sunfish]

Thank you once again for your positive responses. I will now shut up on this subject.

[Double Asymmetric]

We can only hope.

[VH-MLE]

Unfortunately Sunfish has been brainwashed by Australia’s very own expert in all things aviation Leadsled AKA Figjam...

[Chronic Snoozer]

Good robust survey.

[Squawk7700]

Good robust survey.

LOL, I was trying to think of the right words to use to say that myself.

One person writes something positive and that was enough to convince him!

[YPJT]

VH-MLE,
funnily enough the originator of this thread is often referred to as the illegitimate love child of who you refer to.

[LeadSled]

Unfortunately Sunfish has been brainwashed by Australia’s very own expert in all things aviation Leadsled AKA Figjam...
MLE,
I wouldn't want you to be disappointed, so I will throw in my two bob's worth.

The military in Australia, mostly the RAAF, has a very negative effect on ALL aviation in Australia, but particularly light aviation, because of the vast tracts of restricted airspace.

By any comparison, US, Canadian or UK/Europe, the extent of military restricted airspace in Australia is simply ridiculous, even without any consideration of the extent of military traffic, which, in Australia, is minimal, compared to, say, the US.

Or the extent in UK, and don't forget, the UK largely fits on two 1:500,000 topos.---- then have a look at RAF/RN activity.

As I will never forget, at a meeting in Canberra on the subject, quite some time back, the RAAF position was made very clear, I quote: "We won World War II, it all belongs to us".

And, to this day, legislatively this remains fundamentally the case, again in total contrast to almost every country, which would normally be compared to Australia.

The comparison with US is stark, again, a little while ago (and I doubt anything has changed) it was a correct statement to make: There is more military restricted airspace ar Williamstown/Richmond/Nowra, alone, than the whole of the USA.

Tootle pip!!

[Squawk7700]

The military in Australia, mostly the RAAF, has a very negative effect on ALL aviation in Australia, but particularly light aviation, because of the vast tracts of restricted airspace.

What year / century are you referring to?

LS, when was the last time you flew as PIC in a light aircraft through military airspace in Australia and were you denied a clearance that time or any previous times?

If you’re talking “very light” aircraft such as RA-Aus, the RAAF have worked very closely with RA-Aus to implement some VFR routes to open up such airspace to make it easier and arguably safer to navigate through it. That is an overwhelmingly positive result.

I say again, the good old days from your own words on many of your previous posts, weren’t so “good.”

[Slippery_Pete]

I will now shut up on this subject.

Why just this one subject?

If fellow Ppruners didn’t have to read any of your glass completely empty ramblings, nor more “Tootle Pip”, the world would surely be a better place.

[BigPapi]

Why just this one subject?

If fellow Ppruners didn’t have to read any of your glass completely empty ramblings, nor more “Tootle Pip”, the world would surely be a better place.

In the words of Terry Gene Bollea, "Hell yeah, Brother!"

[Sunfish]

Why just this one subject?

If fellow Ppruners didn’t have to read any of your glass completely empty ramblings, nor more “Tootle Pip”, the world would surely be a better place.



You and your ilk are too stupid to realise that we live in a dynamic world (“dynamic = characterised by constant change). What I am trying to explain to all you boiling frogs is that the glass wasn’t always completely empty. It doesn’t have to be empty in future either.

The boiling frog doesn’t know it’s being boiled because the temperature change is gradual. So has been the loss of your aviation freedoms. ASICS, the continual attempts at encroachment by bureaucrats on your basic operations in the name of “safety”, the use of the criminal code, capricious enforcement, etc., etc. and you think this is normal??? Perhaps to you it is. I remember different times - and that allows me to think of different possibilities for the future.

You are obviously content with the status quo, I see a trend to even more authoritarianism in the future, for example, how would you like your stupid little “e-health” record to be automatically shared with CASA Avmed? That is only the beginning of how “big data” is potentially going to change your life and freedoms.

And now the days of just walking into a hangar without an ASIC are gone on some airports, then there is the OH&S crowd, then there is what has been done Angel Flight and Glen Buckley, and you sit there, Pangloss like, and think you live in the best of all possible worlds? You have been conditioned like one of Pavlov’s dogs, to enjoy your captivity!

To put it another way, how horrified would you be to learn that when I was a kid, I carried my military rifle to school or the range on public transport. Think of it! Whole cities would be in lockdown if that happened today! There would be social justice warriors crying in the gutters over the outrage. Then feminists would demand to know why only boys did this. Then the transgender lobby would swing in. FFS, there is nothing sacred about aviation as an activity except to CASA.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Calling people 'stupid' will open doors for you I'm told and is good way of encouraging spirited and honest communication.

[wishiwasupthere]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/554x554/image_99fb8568c6b0618adb4a1e670c696b4fc60563b0.jpeg

[flighthappens]

You and your ilk are too stupid to realise that we live in a dynamic world (“dynamic = characterised by constant change). What I am trying to explain to all you boiling frogs is that the glass wasn’t always completely empty. It doesn’t have to be empty in future either.

The boiling frog doesn’t know it’s being boiled because the temperature change is gradual. So has been the loss of your aviation freedoms. ASICS, the continual attempts at encroachment by bureaucrats on your basic operations in the name of “safety”, the use of the criminal code, capricious enforcement, etc., etc. and you think this is normal??? Perhaps to you it is. I remember different times - and that allows me to think of different possibilities for the future.

You are obviously content with the status quo, I see a trend to even more authoritarianism in the future, for example, how would you like your stupid little “e-health” record to be automatically shared with CASA Avmed? That is only the beginning of how “big data” is potentially going to change your life and freedoms.

And now the days of just walking into a hangar without an ASIC are gone on some airports, then there is the OH&S crowd, then there is what has been done Angel Flight and Glen Buckley, and you sit there, Pangloss like, and think you live in the best of all possible worlds? You have been conditioned like one of Pavlov’s dogs, to enjoy your captivity!

To put it another way, how horrified would you be to learn that when I was a kid, I carried my military rifle to school or the range on public transport. Think of it! Whole cities would be in lockdown if that happened today! There would be social justice warriors crying in the gutters over the outrage. Then feminists would demand to know why only boys did this. Then the transgender lobby would swing in. FFS, there is nothing sacred about aviation as an activity except to CASA.

nice. None of which is to do with the RAAF.

The vast majority of the RAAF restricted airspace is offshore, where I imagine that most light GA traffic aren’t interested in going.

[Atlas Shrugged]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x286/bloke_b8bd96d6a6bafc4815a41b93b41a59c88f465eff.jpg

[Darwinism]

You and your ilk are too stupid to realise that we live in a dynamic world (“dynamic = characterised by constant change). What I am trying to explain to all you boiling frogs is that the glass wasn’t always completely empty. It doesn’t have to be empty in future either.

The boiling frog doesn’t know it’s being boiled because the temperature change is gradual. So has been the loss of your aviation freedoms. ASICS, the continual attempts at encroachment by bureaucrats on your basic operations in the name of “safety”, the use of the criminal code, capricious enforcement, etc., etc. and you think this is normal??? Perhaps to you it is. I remember different times - and that allows me to think of different possibilities for the future.

You are obviously content with the status quo, I see a trend to even more authoritarianism in the future, for example, how would you like your stupid little “e-health” record to be automatically shared with CASA Avmed? That is only the beginning of how “big data” is potentially going to change your life and freedoms.

And now the days of just walking into a hangar without an ASIC are gone on some airports, then there is the OH&S crowd, then there is what has been done Angel Flight and Glen Buckley, and you sit there, Pangloss like, and think you live in the best of all possible worlds? You have been conditioned like one of Pavlov’s dogs, to enjoy your captivity!

To put it another way, how horrified would you be to learn that when I was a kid, I carried my military rifle to school or the range on public transport. Think of it! Whole cities would be in lockdown if that happened today! There would be social justice warriors crying in the gutters over the outrage. Then feminists would demand to know why only boys did this. Then the transgender lobby would swing in. FFS, there is nothing sacred about aviation as an activity except to CASA.


The question was 'Is There Any Evidence the RAAF Has a Positive Attitude to GA?' and your response consists of, to put it kindly, complaints about ASICs, e-health, Avmed, OH&S, taking a rifle to school, feminists, the transgender lobby and CASA. Now I can't see the connection with the RAAF or am I a little too dumb and conditioned to be able to follow your logic?

[Sunfish]

I got a positive answer to the question I asked and responded at post#20. The rest is ad hominem BS.

To put it another way “Darwinism”, you obviously haven’t read the discussion.

[Slezy9]

Ignore this angry old man. He has had his day and is desperate for attention. Don't feed the troll!

[Flaming galah]

There would be social justice warriors crying in the gutters over the outrage. Then feminists would demand to know why only boys did this. Then the transgender lobby would swing in. FFS, there is nothing sacred about aviation as an activity except to CASA.


I love this. I really do. But I’m struggling to follow what relevance it has to carrying a rifle on public transport. Or the RAAF’s attitude to GA. Is it referenced by Prof Sun just to show there’s a vast liberal conspiracy? And why doesn’t climate change get referenced?

[Darwinism]

I got a positive answer to the question I asked and responded at post#20. The rest is ad hominem BS.

To put it another way “Darwinism”, you obviously haven’t read the discussion.
What? So please do explain 'Sunfish' the relevance of your ranting post #33.

[Sunfish]

My point is that what some young folks think is "all right" today in terms of restrictions on freedom to do things is not OK to previous generations who had less restrictions. However the younger folk wouldn't know this because they never experienced it and therefore cannot see the slow deterioration. Everywhere you look, there is the encroachment of Orwellian authoritarianism, not least in Aviation, but younger folk are blind to it.

Do you now understand?

[gassed budgie]

My point is that what some young folks think is "all right" today in terms of restrictions on freedom to do things is not OK to previous generations who had less restrictions. However the younger folk wouldn't know this because they never experienced it and therefore cannot see the slow deterioration. Everywhere you look, there is the encroachment of Orwellian authoritarianism, not least in Aviation, but younger folk are blind to it.

Do you now understand?

.......yup, +1 for Sunny.

[Flaming galah]

I understand. Social justice warriors, feminists and the transgender lobby are organs of a totalitarian state hell bent on stamping out school boys catching trams with rifles.

[Cloudee]

My point is that what some young folks think is "all right" today in terms of restrictions on freedom to do things is not OK to previous generations who had less restrictions. However the younger folk wouldn't know this because they never experienced it and therefore cannot see the slow deterioration. Everywhere you look, there is the encroachment of Orwellian authoritarianism, not least in Aviation, but younger folk are blind to it.

Do you now understand?
Well said Sunny. Not sure what it has to do with the RAAF attitude to GA though. I don't think their attitude to GA has changed much at all over the years.

[LeadSled]

.The vast majority of the RAAF restricted airspace is offshore, where I imagine that most light GA traffic aren’t interested in going.


flighthappens,
Do you understand that most of the "promulgated" restricted airspace beyond the 12 mile limit has absolutely no legal standing, another Australian conceit, it is international airspace.
You are probably not aware that US forces frequently make the point by operating in this airspace without a "clearance". They politely advise of their intentions, but do not request any permissions.
Put another way, they treat Australia exactly the same way as China within international waters/airspace in the South China Sea.
Tootle pip!!

Sqawk7700,
You miss the whole point, most of the on shore restricted airspace should not be restricted at all, eliminating most of the need for the negotiations, to which you refer.
You are grateful for being thrown crumbs ---- sad.
Just have a look at the standard size for a US or NATO/RAF zone, compared to here.
As to "light", GA, RAOz, and all the other alphabet soup orgs.
And to further disappoint you, my RAOz membership and medical is all up to date.

[flywatcher]

You and your ilk are too stupid to realise that we live in a dynamic world (“dynamic = characterised by constant change). What I am trying to explain to all you boiling frogs is that the glass wasn’t always completely empty. It doesn’t have to be empty in future either.

The boiling frog doesn’t know it’s being boiled because the temperature change is gradual. So has been the loss of your aviation freedoms. ASICS, the continual attempts at encroachment by bureaucrats on your basic operations in the name of “safety”, the use of the criminal code, capricious enforcement, etc., etc. and you think this is normal??? Perhaps to you it is. I remember different times - and that allows me to think of different possibilities for the future.

You are obviously content with the status quo, I see a trend to even more authoritarianism in the future, for example, how would you like your stupid little “e-health” record to be automatically shared with CASA Avmed? That is only the beginning of how “big data” is potentially going to change your life and freedoms.

And now the days of just walking into a hangar without an ASIC are gone on some airports, then there is the OH&S crowd, then there is what has been done Angel Flight and Glen Buckley, and you sit there, Pangloss like, and think you live in the best of all possible worlds? You have been conditioned like one of Pavlov’s dogs, to enjoy your captivity!

To put it another way, how horrified would you be to learn that when I was a kid, I carried my military rifle to school or the range on public transport. Think of it! Whole cities would be in lockdown if that happened today! There would be social justice warriors crying in the gutters over the outrage. Then feminists would demand to know why only boys did this. Then the transgender lobby would swing in. FFS, there is nothing sacred about aviation as an activity except to CASA.


I am with sunny on this one. If you go to Switzerland at the right time of the year you will see thousands of assault rifles on trains, trams buses, motor bikes, push bikes and the like when the Swiss nationals, who are trained to use them go to do their annual accreditation training. Incidentally, there is no armed crime in Switzerland and very little crime of any sort, who would break into a dwelling that had a fully loaded assault rifle with 24 rounds of ammunition and a person who is trained to use it?

[Slezy9]

I am with sunny on this one. If you go to Switzerland at the right time of the year you will see thousands of assault rifles on trains, trams buses, motor bikes, push bikes and the like when the Swiss nationals, who are trained to use them go to do their annual accreditation training. Incidentally, there is no armed crime in Switzerland and very little crime of any sort, who would break into a dwelling that had a fully loaded assault rifle with 24 rounds of ammunition and a person who is trained to use it?

You mean like in the USA? Yeah, very safe there...

[Slezy9]

flighthappens,
Do you understand that most of the "promulgated" restricted airspace beyond the 12 mile limit has absolutely no legal standing, another Australian conceit, it is international airspace.
You are probably not aware that US forces frequently make the point by operating in this airspace without a "clearance". They politely advise of their intentions, but do not request any permissions.
Put another way, they treat Australia exactly the same way as China within international waters/airspace in the South China Sea.

You are probably not aware, it's called Due Regard and the military's of many nations do it. RAAF aircraft operate inside controlled airspace and foreign restricted daily without a clearance. How is it conceited to promulgate restricted airspace? Many other countries do it outside of the 12 mile line.

[The name is Porter]

You mean like in the USA? Yeah, very safe there...

It's blatantly obvious it's not 'like in the USA'

[deja vu]

The RAAF is not even a part of aviation, not real aviation.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Incidentally, there is no armed crime in Switzerland and very little crime of any sort, Rubbish. 14 people were shot dead in parliament (Zug massacre) no less.

[The name is Porter]

Rubbish. 14 people were shot dead in parliament

Politicians?

[The name is Porter]

I'm just a lay person, not a 'jet transport pilot' even. But I'm tipping there's some pretty sophisticated **** on board the F aircraft the RAAF operate? So why the need for all this restricted airspace when there's not a chance in hell they'd smash into you? Obviously some of the restricted stuff, they'd want to protect some ground secrets etc.

[arketip]

Rubbish. 14 people were shot dead in parliament (Zug massacre) no less.

18 years ago

[Wizofoz]

I am with sunny on this one. If you go to Switzerland at the right time of the year you will see thousands of assault rifles on trains, trams buses, motor bikes, push bikes and the like when the Swiss nationals, who are trained to use them go to do their annual accreditation training. Incidentally, there is no armed crime in Switzerland and very little crime of any sort, who would break into a dwelling that had a fully loaded assault rifle with 24 rounds of ammunition and a person who is trained to use it?

Switzerland has a robust social security net and excellent public education, so has less desperation and poverty than, say, the USA.

Now, if the NRA wanted to back those type of measures, plus introduce the type of licencing and training that goes with gun ownership in the Switzerland, I'm sure gun deaths would plummet.

Doesn't seem to be the average NRA members agenda, however......

[Sunfish]

The point is that we used to trust people in Australia. Apparently not any more. We are back in the old days where the Government treats us like convicts.

[Wizofoz]

The point is that we used to trust people in Australia. Apparently not any more. We are back in the old days where the Government treats us like convicts.

Just an idea to ponder, Sunfish- it isn't the world that's changed, it's your perception of it.

Remember when you where young, older people complained about the world today and reminisced about the good old days?

Now look in the mirror......

[flighthappens]

flighthappens,
Do you understand that most of the "promulgated" restricted airspace beyond the 12 mile limit has absolutely no legal standing, another Australian conceit, it is international airspace.
You are probably not aware that US forces frequently make the point by operating in this airspace without a "clearance". They politely advise of their intentions, but do not request any permissions.
Put another way, they treat Australia exactly the same way as China within international waters/airspace in the South China Sea.
Tootle pip!!

Sqawk7700,
You miss the whole point, most of the on shore restricted airspace should not be restricted at all, eliminating most of the need for the negotiations, to which you refer.
You are grateful for being thrown crumbs ---- sad.
Just have a look at the standard size for a US or NATO/RAF zone, compared to here.
As to "light", GA, RAOz, and all the other alphabet soup orgs.
And to further disappoint you, my RAOz membership and medical is all up to date.

yep. Aware of the 12NM territorial limit, yet the Australian FIR extends far beyond this.

I’m also aware that the US has many ‘W’ airspace areas outside of 12NM. Within their FIR.

I’ve heard you trot out this ‘fact’ many times. Personally I never seen, nor heard, of a US aircraft conducting essentially what is a FONOP through Australian ‘R’ designated offshore airspace. It is completely counter to why they come to visit (enhance cooperation, integration, and build relationships). If it is as frequent as what you say I’m sure you will provide some good evidence....


im still struggling to see how and why your average GA guy is effected by this? :rolleyes:

[Chronic Snoozer]

The point is that we used to trust people in Australia. Apparently not any more. We are back in the old days where the Government treats us like convicts.
Yeah...nah.

[Flaming galah]

The point is that we used to trust people in Australia. Apparently not any more. We are back in the old days where the Government treats us like convicts.

Aided and abetted by social justice warriors, feminists and the transgender lobby.

[Sunfish]

Just an idea to ponder, Sunfish- it isn't the world that's changed, it's your perception of it.

Remember when you where young, older people complained about the world today and reminisced about the good old days?

Now look in the mirror......

When I was young, the oldies were complaining about our laissez faire attitudes; if it feels good do it!

These days I'm more concerned that we have bred a nation of conformists.


I get the sarcasm about LBGTQ - I've had gay friends of both sexes for forty years and been part of the wedding party on a ground breaking same sex wedding. What concerns me is the SJW's are focussing on trendy issues and not poverty, homelessness, unemployment, corruption and lack of investment in anything but property just for examples.


...but we are way off topic.

[Wizofoz]

When I was young, the oldies were complaining about our laissez faire attitudes; if it feels good do it!

These days I'm more concerned that we have bred a nation of conformists.


I get the sarcasm about LBGTQ - I've had gay friends of both sexes for forty years and been part of the wedding party on a ground breaking same sex wedding. What concerns me is the SJW's are focussing on trendy issues and not poverty, homelessness, unemployment, corruption and lack of investment in anything but property just for examples.


...but we are way off topic.

Then you need to meet new SJWs. Those things are absolutely the kind of things people who might ALSO hold progressive social views care about.

[jonkster]

The point is that we used to trust people in Australia.

well, unless you were from Asia in which case you were not allowed in so it didn't matter I guess.

Or were aboriginal, or part aboriginal or looked a bit too brown in which case you were not an appropriate person to raise your own kids.

Or female in which case you were expected to resign your job if you got married and would be arrested if you sat with a cool bevvie in the front bar (even if you were married).

Or if you wanted to do consensual things in the privacy of your own bedroom that didn't fit the required mold.

Or you wanted to go to a pub and have a drink after 6pm, or wanted to have a wager on the nags if you weren't at the track, or play poker for money, or wanted to read a particular book by D.H.Lawrence or one by Jackie Collins because you might have their morality corrupted, or wear a bikini at the beach (not that I ever have, OK... look, that was an accident and there was only that one time), or watch TV or listen to a radio without a licence (well up until 1974 when that socialist pinko Gough decided to abolish them :( and they didn't even reimburse the poor law abiders who had paid for theirs before the 18 september!! https://www.nfsa.gov.au/latest/radio-and-tv-licences), or wanted to open your shop after 5pm or criticise Joh in Qld or... god knows.

Other than that, yep, you were more trusted.

Well OK you were unless you possessed more than 50kg of potatoes and you were in WA and it was after 1946... well, actually that is still a law, you still can't possess more than 50kg of potatoes in WA (Think that is still the case) so I guess that kind of undermines my argument a bit.

Anyway I personally would like us to go back to the 60s. People back then didn't keep whinging about everything was going downhill and it was better back in the day. Well OK they did. But the briefing offices the government provided gave out free charts and you could submit a flight plan over the counter and discuss it with the briefing officer so there was that. Even if that was a little bit socialist.

Strewth... that felt good. :)

Seriously though... does CASA need an overhaul? emphatic yes.
Could things be made better? emphatic yes.
So is the world (and aviation in particular) going to hell because of woman and gays and people believe in climate change influencing the government and RAAF and CASA?... nah, sorry, not buying.

All of which of course will change no one's mind hear* but I have enjoyed having a spray! :)

* especially the spelling nazis... oh god... I have invoked Godwin's law :eek:

[Flaming galah]

Jonkster what a great post! I’m going to have to weigh my spud stash....

And on spelling, there was the fantastic recent irony of someone who’d corrected another poster making an error themselves on another thread at around the same time.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Other than that, yep, you were more trusted.

You forgot to mention getting petrol on a weekend in WA was a nightmare, couldn’t be trusted, and no one could go to see an R-rated film on a Sunday because, you know, you either should have been in church, be on the way to church, or had just come from church with a fresh dose of brainwashing, homosexuals were banned from the armed forces and so were women in combat roles, including flying!

[LeadSled]

The point is that we used to trust people in Australia. Apparently not any more. We are back in the old days where the Government treats us like convicts.
Sunfish,
Quite some time ago, the then FAA Administrator (Admiral) Donald Engen, paid a visit to Melbourne.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.
Tootle pip!!

[Pinky the pilot]

the then FAA Administrator (Admiral) Donald Engen, paid a visit to Melbourne.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.

I have a dream!!:eek: That Admiral Engen is offered the job as head of CASA with supreme authority and given one instruction; Clean out the place and put in some sensible Regulations. And given 2 years to do so.:ooh::=

And that is probably all it ever will be; A dream!:mad:

[gerry111]

I have a dream!!:eek: That Admiral Engen is offered the job as head of CASA with supreme authority and given one instruction; Clean out the place and put in some sensible Regulations. And given 2 years to do so.:ooh::=

And that is probably all it ever will be; A dream!:mad:

Sadly it will only ever be a dream, Pinky.
Vice Admiral Donald Engen (Ret.) was killed in a motorised glider accident in Nevada on 13th July 1999. RIP.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Sunfish,
Quite some time ago, the then FAA Administrator (Admiral) Donald Engen, paid a visit to Melbourne.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.
Tootle pip!!
That's twice you've used that quote in the past 6 weeks with a slight difference this time. Do you have a source? Just curious. The visit would have been between 1984 and 1987 I presume. To whom was the remark made?

[arketip]

On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"


Like they did with Bob Hoover?

[Wizofoz]

Sunfish,
Quite some time ago, the then FAA Administrator (Admiral) Donald Engen, paid a visit to Melbourne.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.
Tootle pip!!

You've clearly not gone through security at JFK in a Pilots uniform recently...….

[Squawk7700]

You've clearly not gone through security at JFK in a Pilots uniform recently...….

Probably 20-30 years ago.

[Slippery_Pete]

You and your ilk are too stupid to realise that we live in a dynamic world (“dynamic = characterised by constant change). What I am trying to explain to all you boiling frogs is that the glass wasn’t always completely empty. It doesn’t have to be empty in future either.

The boiling frog doesn’t know it’s being boiled because the temperature change is gradual. So has been the loss of your aviation freedoms. ASICS, the continual attempts at encroachment by bureaucrats on your basic operations in the name of “safety”, the use of the criminal code, capricious enforcement, etc., etc. and you think this is normal??? Perhaps to you it is. I remember different times - and that allows me to think of different possibilities for the future.

You are obviously content with the status quo, I see a trend to even more authoritarianism in the future, for example, how would you like your stupid little “e-health” record to be automatically shared with CASA Avmed? That is only the beginning of how “big data” is potentially going to change your life and freedoms.

And now the days of just walking into a hangar without an ASIC are gone on some airports, then there is the OH&S crowd, then there is what has been done Angel Flight and Glen Buckley, and you sit there, Pangloss like, and think you live in the best of all possible worlds? You have been conditioned like one of Pavlov’s dogs, to enjoy your captivity!

To put it another way, how horrified would you be to learn that when I was a kid, I carried my military rifle to school or the range on public transport. Think of it! Whole cities would be in lockdown if that happened today! There would be social justice warriors crying in the gutters over the outrage. Then feminists would demand to know why only boys did this. Then the transgender lobby would swing in. FFS, there is nothing sacred about aviation as an activity except to CASA.

Okay, I’ll bite. You want to know what your problem is Sunfish?

You fit into a profile not dis-similar to Dick Smith when it comes to using this forum to try and gain traction for political agendas.

That MO goes something like this:
1. Start a post about something you are genuinely already convinced about and in which your view can not be swayed
2. Disguise it, using the title of your post as a question as if you want feedback and to hear what others have experienced or feel
about this area.
3. Attempt to systematically destroy or minimise evidence or view points which contradict your original one
4. Here’s the pièce de résistance... Introduce a false dilemma type argument - the old “you’re either completely with me, or completely against me”. For example, in a thread about RAAF promoting GA, discuss whether people in Switzerland should be allowed to take their military service rifles on public transport.
5. Wrap it all up with some sorrow and attempt to illicit sympathy and garner support that way from the people you’ve stereotyped and belittled in the first place (“I was once in a gay wedding ceremony”).

Other, even more juvenile techniques you’ve tried to successfully employ include:
- throwing of insults (“boiling frogs”)
- hands in the air Helen Lovejoy style (“ I will now shut up on this subject.“ followed by nothing of the sort)
- segregation (assuming anyone who doesn’t agree with you is LGBTI)
- talking down (“dynamic = constantly changing” - thanks for explaining that little gem to the peasants, sure to get people on side)

So a little advice from this heterosexually married with three kids whom you’ve branded as being with “them”, you know the social justice, LBGTI, govenrment captives...

1. Don’t ask questions about things on which you are SURE you already have the answer. This is the most important piece of advice - you’re setting yourself up for anger and heartache every time.
2. Don’t attack and shoot down people who don’t give you the answer you’re looking for. Again, see point 1 to avoid this.
3. Avoid false dilemma arguments.

You asked if the RAAF promote GA. And several of the posters have indicated they do, such as
- supporting and encouraging pilots to fly GA on weekend when their hours are low
- Pearce flying club (which unfortunately had to be relocated)
- Highly ranked Air Force officers with obvious personal interest in GA and private aircraft ownership

I’ve never been in the forces. But thanks to the responses to your post, it would appear to me that the RAAF is most definitely not anti-GA.

Thanks for clearing it up 👍

[BigPapi]

Okay, I’ll bite. You want to know what your problem is Sunfish?

You fit into a profile not dis-similar to Dick Smith when it comes to using this forum to try and gain traction for political agendas.

That MO goes something like this:
1. Start a post about something you are genuinely already convinced about and in which your view can not be swayed
2. Disguise it, using the title of your post as a question as if you want feedback and to hear what others have experienced or feel
about this area.
3. Attempt to systematically destroy or minimise evidence or view points which contradict your original one
4. Here’s the pièce de résistance... Introduce a false dilemma type argument - the old “you’re either completely with me, or completely against me”. For example, in a thread about RAAF promoting GA, discuss whether people in Switzerland should be allowed to take their military service rifles on public transport.
5. Wrap it all up with some sorrow and attempt to illicit sympathy and garner support that way from the people you’ve stereotyped and belittled in the first place (“I was once in a gay wedding ceremony”).

Other, even more juvenile techniques you’ve tried to successfully employ include:
- throwing of insults (“boiling frogs”)
- hands in the air Helen Lovejoy style (“ I will now shut up on this subject.“ followed by nothing of the sort)
- segregation (assuming anyone who doesn’t agree with you is LGBTI)
- talking down (“dynamic = constantly changing” - thanks for explaining that little gem to the peasants, sure to get people on side)

So a little advice from this heterosexually married with three kids whom you’ve branded as being with “them”, you know the social justice, LBGTI, govenrment captives...

1. Don’t ask questions about things on which you are SURE you already have the answer. This is the most important piece of advice - you’re setting yourself up for anger and heartache every time.
2. Don’t attack and shoot down people who don’t give you the answer you’re looking for. Again, see point 1 to avoid this.
3. Avoid false dilemma arguments.

You asked if the RAAF promote GA. And several of the posters have indicated they do, such as
- supporting and encouraging pilots to fly GA on weekend when their hours are low
- Pearce flying club (which unfortunately had to be relocated)
- Highly ranked Air Force officers with obvious personal interest in GA and private aircraft ownership

I’ve never been in the forces. But thanks to the responses to your post, it would appear to me that the RAAF is most definitely not anti-GA.

Thanks for clearing it up 👍

Bitten, chewed, spat out.

Well done Pete, nail smashed on the head.

[Wizofoz]

Slippery_Pete- The problem with your post is it makes people like me wonder why I bother posting when people like you do it so much better.:D

[Squawk7700]

To put it another way, how horrified would you be to learn that when I was a kid, I carried my military rifle to school or the range on public transport. Think of it! Whole cities would be in lockdown if that happened today!

If they actually trusted you like you say they did, they would have given you ammunition. Now you’re just giving ammunition to everyone else, to use on you.

That was probably back when they had conscription; they don’t have that any more. That’s why they gave you the rifle, to make you feel important, thus it’s easier to send you off to war to your early death because you believe they trusted you to protect the country. You don’t realise it Sunfish, that nothing has actually changed over time! Nor have you...

[amberale]

Could people please desist from quoting Voldesled.
I have gone to the effort of blocking his contributions and it does no good to my blood pressure to have his rubbish appear.
PoodleTip

[Piston_Broke]

You want to know what your problem is Sunfish?
<snip>So a little advice from this heterosexually married with three kids whom you’ve branded as being with “them”, you know the social justice, LBGTI, govenrment captives...

1. Don’t ask questions about things on which you are SURE you already have the answer. This is the most important piece of advice - you’re setting yourself up for anger and heartache every time.
2. Don’t attack and shoot down people who don’t give you the answer you’re looking for. Again, see point 1 to avoid this.
3. Avoid false dilemma arguments.4. Take a break from PPRuNe, and go and sniff the roses.

[LeadSled]

That's twice you've used that quote in the past 6 weeks with a slight difference this time. Do you have a source? Just curious. The visit would have been between 1984 and 1987 I presume. To whom was the remark made?
Chronic Snoozer,
Source --- Me. Hence minor variations due memory, but the message was there. Date, as I said, years ago, exact date, too hard.
The remark was made to the operating crew of the aircraft, including the Captain.
As I recall, the reason he was even in Australia was not aviation, but guest speaker at a major annual function held at the Royal Melbourne Golf Club.
Tootle pip!!

PS: Crew treatment at any Port of New York Authority airports has always been dreadful, long long before 9/11 ---- and is nothing to do with FAA, just as security here is nothing to do with CASA.

[Sunfish]

If they actually trusted you like you say they did, they would have given you ammunition. Now you’re just giving ammunition to everyone else, to use on you.

That was probably back when they had conscription; they don’t have that any more. That’s why they gave you the rifle, to make you feel important, thus it’s easier to send you off to war to your early death because you believe they trusted you to protect the country. You don’t realise it Sunfish, that nothing has actually changed over time! Nor have you...

You could buy ammo anywhere, and at the range it was free. The MCC rifle club offered me a brand new .303 jungle carbine (short barreled .303 with flash suppressor) still in its cosmoline for $10.00. I happened to have $10 in my pocket, but thought that Mum might not approve. A mate bought one and we tried it next weekend - kicked like a horse and a very loud bark - not useful for target shooting.

The rifles went home with us because it was the easiest way to store them at the time. Bare in mind that it was also your patriotic duty to have a .22 and shoot rabbits - for which you got a bounty.

Lest you think I'm joking about "lockdowns" this is what happened to a star wars fan who left the butt of a toy ray gun sticking out oh his backpack in 2008:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/the-force-was-against-him/news-story/f5f481c3f887b2ac9a1fb8ebcca5bcb0?sv=ec6389fd172f1aeccb5cd1b4 f0071ac1

[Sunfish]

If they actually trusted you like you say they did, they would have given you ammunition. Now you’re just giving ammunition to everyone else, to use on you.

That was probably back when they had conscription; they don’t have that any more. That’s why they gave you the rifle, to make you feel important, thus it’s easier to send you off to war to your early death because you believe they trusted you to protect the country. You don’t realise it Sunfish, that nothing has actually changed over time! Nor have you...

You could buy ammo anywhere, and at the range it was free. The MCC rifle club offered me a brand new .303 jungle carbine (short barreled .303 with flash suppressor) still in its cosmoline for $10.00. I happened to have $10 in my pocket, but thought that Mum might not approve. A mate bought one and we tried it next weekend - kicked like a horse and a very loud bark - not useful for target shooting. I was about 14 at the time.

The rifles went home with us because it was the easiest way to store them at the time. Bare in mind that it was also your patriotic duty to have a .22 and shoot rabbits - for which you got a bounty.

Lest you think I'm joking about "lockdowns" this is what happened to a star wars fan who left the butt of a toy ray gun sticking out oh his backpack in 2008:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/the-force-was-against-him/news-story/f5f481c3f887b2ac9a1fb8ebcca5bcb0?sv=ec6389fd172f1aeccb5cd1b4 f0071ac1

[Wizofoz]

You could buy ammo anywhere, and at the range it was free. The MCC rifle club offered me a brand new .303 jungle carbine (short barreled .303 with flash suppressor) still in its cosmoline for $10.00. I happened to have $10 in my pocket, but thought that Mum might not approve. A mate bought one and we tried it next weekend - kicked like a horse and a very loud bark - not useful for target shooting.

The rifles went home with us because it was the easiest way to store them at the time. Bare in mind that it was also your patriotic duty to have a .22 and shoot rabbits - for which you got a bounty.

Lest you think I'm joking about "lockdowns" this is what happened to a star wars fan who left the butt of a toy ray gun sticking out oh his backpack in 2008:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/the-force-was-against-him/news-story/f5f481c3f887b2ac9a1fb8ebcca5bcb0?sv=ec6389fd172f1aeccb5cd1b4 f0071ac1

Right. So the laws regarding firearms have changed due to two massacres perpetrated by white, male Australians. This was done by a conservative government and widely supported by the community.

Now, what are the other great impositions on freedom you are complaining about?

[BigPapi]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x507/the_latest_nfl_stadium_mess_or_old_man_yells_at_cloud_142418 6090_d7c57dd1f0ae97842b7ec8738051fe618c2fb20a.jpg

[junior.VH-LFA]

This thread has really been a good time for me.

[Sunfish]

Right. So the laws regarding firearms have changed due to two massacres perpetrated by white, male Australians. This was done by a conservative government and widely supported by the community.

Now, what are the other great impositions on freedom you are complaining about?

I’m not complaining about that “imposition on freedom”, I’m highlighting the change in community standards. .. .Some for the better like LBGTQQQ and women’s rights, some for the worse, like political correctness.

[LeadSled]

. The MCC rifle club offered me a brand new .303 jungle carbine (short barreled .303 with flash suppressor) still in its cosmoline for $10.00.
Bare in mind that it was also your patriotic duty to have a .22 and shoot rabbits - for which you got a bounty.

Sunfish,
That really takes me back. I have still got the Mk5, SMLE built version, bought brand new, in the grease, but I paid 15 quid at Mick Simmons.
I was probably 16 or 17 when I exhausted the savings account on the Mk5. Great for pigs.
I only found out many years afterwards that the really big recoils probably meant you had some ammunition intended for Brownings in aircraft, not for rifles.
And my re-barreled (.22) full wood Mk2, for potting rabbits.
Tootle pip!!

[Flaming galah]

I’m not complaining about that “imposition on freedom”, I’m highlighting the change in community standards. .. .Some for the better like LBGTQQQ and women’s rights, some for the worse, like political correctness.

But it’s the transgender lobby and feminists that stop schoolboys taking rifles on trams.

[Wizofoz]

I’m not complaining about that “imposition on freedom”, I’m highlighting the change in community standards. .. .Some for the better like LBGTQQQ and women’s rights, some for the worse, like political correctness.

We've always had political correctness. How would that cadet on the tram have reacted if someone said "Fvck the Queen" or tried to explain that Marxism was nothing like Soviet Communism?

There were protests outside the initial staging of Jesus Christ Superstar because It was blasphemous, and Bob Menzies didn't just ban Lady Chatterley's Lover, he banned the book detailing the trial that got it's ban lifted in England. He was GOING to ban "Hair" outright, till a photo emerged of Princess Anne dancing on stage at a West End production of the show.

Stifling free speech was a staple of conservatism- it is now, unfortunately, largely the preserve of the left- but the right only squeal about free speech because THEIR days of censorship are over.

[AbsoluteFokker]

About 7 years ago, the wankers at RAAF Pearce made me made me drive (rather than fly) an engineer to Gingin after my aircraft developed an issue with others flying it, PAN call and landed there. And made it extremely difficult to fly out of there too. Complete wankers.

There were no military ops happening at Gingin at all.

Pearce Flying Club also "appropriated" remaining AVGAS in drum too for no compensation. Thanks so much.

[tartare]

The constant negativity in this particular branch of the forum is an ongoing source of amusement alternating with bewilderment.
Glad to see some of the chronic whiners are finally being called out.