Tcas

[QDMQDMQDM]

I fly a Super Cub in North Devon, usually fairly low, and on weekdays I switch Mode C on so that any fast jets might see me on their TCAS and avoid.

Is this worthwhile or is it just a vain hope? Should I continue to do so?

And don't tell me to fly well above 500 feet -- you can't see anything from up there. ;)

QDM

[The Ugly Fend Off]

No frontline fast jets with TCAS at the mo. It's a bit of a hot potato as to whether or not they should have it. Best bet is the old adage of 'good lookout.'

[ShyTorque]

QDMx3

Really good idea to Squawk mode C if you have it, please keep on doing it. If it's there and paid for, it's best to use it for everyone's safety.

An increasing number of aircraft have TCAS; unfortunately (and as usual) the military lag well behind the civvy world in this respect. For example, most Police and EMS aircraft now have TCAS. So do many corporate aircraft, operating outside controlled airspace both VFR and IFR.

Aircraft transponding but without mode C give unnecessary TCAS alerts due to the lack of altitude info; the box defaults to range and closure rates only.

It causes a great deal of hassle to continue to look for an alerted "target" aircraft that can't actually be seen because it is very well separated in height and actually no factor. I've got grey hairs to prove it.....

[QDMQDMQDM]

Thanks for the info. Well, I'm bright yellow anyway, not that that's much help.

It would be interesting / useful to know what most of the sorties being flown around here in North Devon are. I've heard that some are practice bombing sorties on a bridge on the Taw river. I've also heard that they use Bellevue airfield as an IP for that sorties, but I don't know how true that is. How can I find out?

It's a mix of mostly Harriers / Tornados, with the odd Jetstream low-level and occasionally Hercules from, I presume, Lyneham.

QDM

[sycamore]

Sorry to be a wet blanket QDM,but if you are operating low level,or trying to bounce an FJ,you are right in the altitude bracket for mil low-flying.If you are working ,ie photography,then you should inform the low-flying cell at West Drayton?? to effect a CANP which will warn all low level a/c of your op. area.Not that you don`t have as much right as any mil. a/c to operate wherever,remember ANO Rule5,and you need an exemption to operate outside of it;mil a/c have the authority to operate down to 250 ft.agl/msd.Mode C can work for or against you;there are also a lot of other radars about that can follow your every move!That said,if you have landing lights on the Cub,put them on and keep your eyes ",peeeled",;Whilst steam should give way to sail,it is "See and be seen",and if you see one FJ,then there are probably a couple more ,well spread,and they may not have seen you.:p

[Facilitator]

QDMQDMQDM

You'll be glad to know that the much berated J-Model Hercules is TCAS equipped. Indeed it even has E-TCAS (not that we're allowed to use it!?) which means that it can interrogate all the traffic out their squawking Mode 3 and once interrogated displays each individual squawk on the NAV/RADAR display. If a certain target is of interest to the crew (assuming of course that they have enough capacity to deal with the extremely high workload - EESDL take note) the squawk(s) (up to 10) can be loaded in the kit. If the target(s) are within the HUD Field of View (FOV) a ring appears around where they are in the sky accompanied by a velocity vector showing the rate of closure; if outside the FOV a strobe(s) point to where they are. I shall look forward to the feedback from the J crews when they start low level ops in two weeks (single ships for two weeks, thereafter two ships) as to the usefulness of the system. It will be particularly useful during the run-in to IMC drops when someone accidentally strays into the NOTAMed area!:p

[QDMQDMQDM]

Very interesting, Facilitator. I'm guessing those are your Hercules I see down in the valley opposite my house in North Devon then?

QDM

[L J R]

Flying a yellow aircraft - Well Done
Putting landing light on - Well Done
Flying with all SSR modes on - Well Done
Being concerned while at low level - Well Done
Instigating a chat in this forum on your activity - Well Done


However - Read the bit about FJ at low level - Think about that CANAP if you have a good reason to bee there.


Educate your buddies who also do the same activity.

[sycamore]

Facilitator
You might not be allowed to use it(E-CAS) BUT IS THAT ANY EXCUSE for not using it.??Get on with it you big girls blouse!! :p

[BEagle]

Presumably you J-folk will be using ETCAS with IFF Mode S to designate your formation members? I'm told that the '10 is also due to receive Honeywell ETACS with the Raytheon SIFF; I haven't seen full details yet, but I certainly expect it to be cleared for the formation designation and rendezvous capability if the displays are good enough.

PS. Dear sycamore, 'facilitator' merely said that the 'E' part of ETCAS wasn't cleared for use yet. The conventional ACAS II element, such as used by civil airliners, is indeed in use.

[extpwron]

QDMQDMQDM

So you’re the guy that whazzes down Devon beaches at zero feet prompting members of the public to reach for the phone and report a crashing aircraft to the Coast Guard.

Remember the time we followed you back to Bellevue airfield and the ‘interview’ you had with my winchman?

Although we have been scrambled for you more than once, I must confess it hasn’t happened recently – was it the fireaxe the winchman was carrying that finally convinced you?

[Facilitator]

BEagle

The J is capable of IMC formation by three different methods:

1. CAPS/SKE - Coordinated Aircraft Positioning System/Station Keeping Equipment: An enhancement to the traditional SKE C system used by the K model and USAF. The system allows up to 36 ac (we only have 25) to automatically formate and drop in IMC ie, auto-pilot/auto-throttle engaged throughout. Basically, followers enter their desired formation parameters in the FMS and engage the automatics (can be used manually if it gets too boring); whatever the lead ac does the followers are maintained in the same relative positions throughout. The workload is so high when employing CAPS that all the currencies will be maintained in the simulator on a 6 monthly basis!

2. Skin Paint (SP) - One of the six modes on the APN-241 radar. If CAPS/SKE fails or is switched off for EMCON reasons the SP facility can be employed on the J. Since it's a two channel radar SP can be displayed on one NAV/RADAR display, whilst WX (weather) or MAP (DBS Ground Mapping) can be displayed on another. The maximum power output of the radar in this mode is in 10s of Watts.

3. E-TCAS - I believe the reason it cannot be used, unless specifically authorised by ATC is that if a certain amount of ac are using it within a certain area, civil radar displays can be affected? Honeywell told me that - I would appreciate any more info from anyone? However, the bottom line is that if we had to use it, we would anyway.

[BEagle]

Thanks for that. My understanding of ETACS limitations is very sketchy at present; hwoever, I shall be quizzing Honeywell on this in October. However, I would imagine that the increased survellance volume in Enhanced or Rendezvous mode - and transponder power levels associated with it - may be the cause of the restriction.

[raytofclimb]

QDM, why not try to contact your nearest station, St Mawgan for example (or even a RNAS) and ask for a Low Flying Chart (LFC). This will give you a better idea of which areas we can operate in and around, and which areas we have to avoid as mil FJs.

As far as I'm aware, Joe Pubilc are largely unaware of the UK Low Flying System and how we have to book into a specific area for a specific time and provide a record of route which is filed for when people complain about us.

A LFC will display everything relevant on the ground and up to 10,000ft. Its what we fly around reading from, during training at least, and the charts are ammended regularly, daily even, with CANPs and NOTAMS.

Every flying club would benefit from one pinned up in the crewroom. Even better, contact a Station Nav Officer, or a particular Sqn and arrange a visit for your flying club/flying mates to come and see how we plan low level sorties.

Ray.

[QDMQDMQDM]

So you’re the guy that whazzes down Devon beaches at zero feet prompting members of the public to reach for the phone and report a crashing aircraft to the Coast Guard.

extpwron,

Sadly not. Anyway, I wouldn't dare go through your danger area on Saunton Beach without calling 130.2 first. ;) I'm based at Eggesford, not Bellevue, and then only since the beginning of July.

Not guilty.

On a separate point, while I haven't actually done this, it does sound like a helluva lot of fun. If the beach is empty or it is done a reasonable distance offshore and the 500 foot proximity rule isn't broken, is this a sin? What kind of society do we live in if all VFR flight is expected to take place on quadrantal headings, minimum 2,000 or 3,000 feet agl and any flight which might break that convention should be notified 'to the relevant authorities'?

QDM

[QDMQDMQDM]

Read the bit about FJ at low level - Think about that CANAP if you have a good reason to bee there.

Sorry, what's a CANAP?

QDM

[brit bus driver]

BEagle,

Ref E-TCAS; with whom, and where, will you be speaking to Honeywell in Oct? A certain allied nation is also looking to have E-TCAS fitted to their upcoming Tanker, but details seem sketchy. Can it replace the Air-to-Air Tacan? as we (they) are being told that the ARN-139 is no longer in production, therefore not sustainable. All that is being offered is an "airborne" TACAN; gives the rxs range and bearing to 80 DME, but absolutely no nfo tothe tanker.

Also be interested in the operational use of E-TCAS, wrt Mode 4 etc, obviously within the confines of a public forum.

Are the Tr-Stars getting the E-TCAS too?

Cheers, BBD.

[extpwron]

QDM

Whoops - sorry. The guy we tracked was in a yellow high winger and landed at Bellevue,

[BEagle]

I will be asking Honeywell and also the ARC IPT.

We managed for years with simple air-to-air TACAN which gave distance only. That we regard as essential. Presumably the Germans are going to have it in their A310 tanker/transport?

Operational use of ETCAS is something I don't wish to discuss in a public forum - partly because I don't yet know enough about it and partly because I don't want to disclose capabilities which we may or may not have.

As far as I'm aware, ETCAS is currently fitted to C-17 and C-130J and SIFF will be fitted to other RAF large ac shortly.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Whoops - sorry. The guy we tracked was in a yellow high winger and landed at Bellevue,

No worries. There used to be a yellow 90HP cub at Bellevue.

QDM

[brit bus driver]

BEagle,

Fair point on the ETCAS discussion, my working knowledge of it is still fairly rudimentary too. No, the Germans will have no air-to-air tacan. The tanker will have no DME info from the receiver whatsoever. To my mind, this is a fundamental design flaw, hence my question about the availability and sustainability of the ARN-139 or similar.

[BEagle]

Personally I would consider it vital for both Canadian and German A310 Tanker Transports to have A/A TACAN. Otherwise they'll have to rely upon ATC or AWACS to a far greater extent. RV B and RV D become impossible without A/A TACAN - unless ETCAS can give a read out of receiver range in all circumstances.

Not fitting A/A TACAN would be a serious blunder, in my view.

[BEagle]

There is now some doubt that Honeywell's Military system will be fitted to the '10 - it may end up with just TCAS, not ETACS...

The original Honeywell proposal to BWoS' Request for Proposals was for the military system, but it seems that 't Bungling Baron has been at it again. Currently, Questions Are Being Asked!!

[Bassett]

Beag and BBD

On the C130J we are certainly planning on using ETCAS for tanker RVs. It presents guidance in the HUD which includes 3d vectoring, and once within a mile, a high resolution count down of distance to go which gives a good pointer to rate of closure. I believe it to be a great improvement over the old air to air TACAN game.

[BEagle]

Fine for the receiver - but for that to happen, surely both tanker and receiver need to have ETCAS?

[brit bus driver]

Encouraging words....as long as ours has the ability to select that sort of range. My concern is.........what if the kit goes t!t$ up, you still can't beat the old air-to-air tacan. And, how will it work in the tactical environment...(rhetorical, given the open nature of the forum).

[Thomas coupling]

QDM: you don't need to squawk just switch your transponder on, simple as that, mode 'C' is icing on the cake. As long as we pick you up on TCAS then it's one less to worry about.
We fly a police EC135 in a fast jet / puddle jumper environment and this is some of the more sinister experiences we have experienced and subsequently confirmed:
Fast jets on the whole, do not transpond when they are doing training sorties even though they tell you they do!
Puddle jumpers have been known to switch their transponder off so that they can't be picked up by some lurking ATC while they do some 'low level' flying :eek:
TCAS is a godsend, spread the word to your colleagues:
switch transponder on as often as you can.
Get a transponder fitted if not already equipped.

[Facilitator]

Beagle

A tanker only requires M3 for an E-TCAS equipped receiver to interrogate and RV with it.

[TURD]

Mr Coupling,

Speaking as a fast Jet operator and I realise that in your post you did say that we'd say this but I think you'll find you are wholly mistaken regarding FJ ops in low level without SSR. I have walked in from several sorties for just such an unservicability. Apart from the obvious Flight safety implications if you get caught breaking low flying regulations an unbelievable amount of natural fertilizer descends from Ministerial level which tends to have career ending implications.

[sangiovese.]

For all your e-tcas answers check out:


http://www.honeywelltcas.com/faq/whitepapers/etcasdescription.html

Also have a look at the ACAS/TCAS home link, for lots of lovely pics

[raedwald]

ETCAS is a good idea.

Unfortunately, the current ETCAS version switches off the algorithms which limit interference with civilian secondary radar when switched from TCAS to ETCAS. For this reason, I believe, the FAA does not allow ETCAS to be used over the Continental USA. A version of TCAS with a Rendezvous mode that does not interfere with the civilian secondary radar system may be offered soon, but whether it is worth the extra cost needs some thought.

TCAS on fast jets is also a real requirement but it is not so easy to provide a useful system. There are several problems that need to be solved. However, lots of people are working on the idea, so we may be lucky enough to see a system enter service in our lifetime. Meanwhile, TCAS equipped aircraft have no problem picking up fast jets operating their IFF. TCAS certainly helps situational awareness.

[Albert on Tour]

Oh no its double triple groundhog day

[SALAD DODGER]

Air to Air Tacan is a great peice of kit but there is a new boy on the block. The USAF and UK C17's also have the Radar Beacon facility which is great for tanking and has considerable range.

You enter the radar beacon code into your kit of the aircraft you wish to RV with, then you watch in awe as the clever thing locates and displays the aircraft on your radar or nav display well outside of the normal identification range. The only problem is that this will not work if the aircraft is behind you, but if that happens I guess you have already screwed up the RV.

So when combining TCAS, primary returns, Mk.1 eyeball, Radar Beacon and Tacan you can sleep a little better at night and RV like a sky god.

Have to agree that the SA that TCAS gives is just awesome and have seen it work in Anger and hope to never fly without it again. It is not quite as good at low level as it has the tendancy to scare the living s*!t out of you by screaming "COLLISION" as you fly below an aircraft without mode C (or over a parked one on the ground) , having last minute pop ups can be a capacity drain and over-taking or passing another jet down a valley can cause irritating warnings, however I would not turn it off as is in my opinion the best peice of kit they have designed in years and a pilots best friend.