Why don’t many low cost airlines offer ZED fares or ID90s

[CaptainJim]

Particularly in Europe many low cost airlines don’t offer ID90s or ZED fares? It is one of the reasons I stopped working in Europe as commuting is too expensive. In addition to that there is no airline wide jumpseating program like CASS in the US.

I genuinely believe beside pay and taxes, it’s one of the reasons many pilots like myself don’t return to work in Europe as if a base closes or your airline goes bust you’re stuck with a tiring and expensive commute.
I would be very interested to hear management's point of view as it hurts both the pilots and the airlines, as the pilots want more money to justify an expensive commute and the airlines lose some albeit very small additional revenue with fees and ancillary revenue.

[Meikleour]

The answer is simple: ZED and ID90 fares have to be reciprical between airlines!

[CaptainJim]

The answer is simple: ZED and ID90 fares have to be reciprical between airlines!
I understand that but there is no loss to either airline giving out standby tickets.

[EAM]

I think you are actually right, it doesn't really matter as you only go on when a seat is available . And on my last company a ZED ticket was even more expensive than a normal ticket, if you booked that a bit in advance. So the company could probably even make some money on it.
But one reason might be, that most LCCs are not IATA members, which isn't a requirement for Staff travel, but it seems like most IATA members have ZED/ID90 non members don't.

[NoelEvans]

I have made very, very little use of airline staff travel when I have had it available to me for the simple reason that it is so very unreliable. Airlines are doing everything that they can to fill seats with confirmed bookings so the chances of getting a 'spare seat' are very rare. Having spent 11 hrs on a cabin-crew jump-seat and many nervous hours wondering if I would get a seat, for a price that is the same as, if not more than, the cost of a confirmed seat booked 'on-line', that cheap confirmed seat is "worth" far, far more than any ID90 ticket.

The airline world has changed. If you plan carefully, cheap seats are available. ID90s are now just far too unreliable to have any real value.

[EAM]

In a certain way that is true. ID Travel is not anymore for going on holiday with your family. Confirmed tickets cost little more, but a lot less stress.
ID tickets are more used to commute with some options available and they simply give you the flexibility in case of roster changes.

[Intrance]

I have made very, very little use of airline staff travel when I have had it available to me for the simple reason that it is so very unreliable. Airlines are doing everything that they can to fill seats with confirmed bookings so the chances of getting a 'spare seat' are very rare. Having spent 11 hrs on a cabin-crew jump-seat and many nervous hours wondering if I would get a seat, for a price that is the same as, if not more than, the cost of a confirmed seat booked 'on-line', that cheap confirmed seat is "worth" far, far more than any ID90 ticket.

The airline world has changed. If you plan carefully, cheap seats are available. ID90s are now just far too unreliable to have any real value.You must have had some bad staff travel agreements or have been traveling on underserved routes that were always full... In 4 years with ID travel available to me I've saved thousands of euros for myself and even traveling with friends. Recently I flew halfway around the world for €70 on a full service carrier and back in business for €200 (normal price €3800 or thereabouts). You have to be a bit more flexible for sure, but to say it has no real value... Even low-cost long-haul carriers couldn't beat those prices. If you apply your careful planning to the ID tickets you can usually go a much longer way for the same or less money ;).

[NoelEvans]

Are you retired? Just wondering how the flexibility fits in with time available.

For us the certainty of a confirmed seat is worth the price (and often cheaper if you end up with unplanned hotel costs added on top of your staff travel ticket cost).

We have travelled right around the world on confirmed tickets booked well in advance at a good price when we did have staff travel (with one of the major Alliances -- there's a clue!) available to us, Many asked us if we were going to use staff travel and we said that we were specifically ruling that out because we didn't want to risk wasting time and money with the uncertainty. We wanted that certainty to help us enjoy the trip.

[matt283]

One thing I don’t understand here, ID 90 is standby, but I thought ID50 is confirmed?

[Intrance]

Are you retired? Just wondering how the flexibility fits in with time available.

For us the certainty of a confirmed seat is worth the price (and often cheaper if you end up with unplanned hotel costs added on top of your staff travel ticket cost).

We have travelled right around the world on confirmed tickets booked well in advance at a good price when we did have staff travel (with one of the major Alliances -- there's a clue!) available to us, Many asked us if we were going to use staff travel and we said that we were specifically ruling that out because we didn't want to risk wasting time and money with the uncertainty. We wanted that certainty to help us enjoy the trip.

Not retired, I just plan my vacation with a buffer day or maximum two on each end and usually plan travel via airports with scheduled traffic from multiple of the airlines that we have agreements with (not too hard to do, without detours mostly). But I have not yet encountered a completely full flight once. Actually, that's a lie. I had an overbooked flight once due to an earlier flight getting cancelled. That did mean a 5-hour wait, but that is what the flexibility is for. We do also have a few partners that allow "confirmed" ID tickets. A bit more expensive but a bit more certainty as well. Have only used it once though.

In terms of hotels, I either budget for whatever period I am planning to stay and/or book stays with free cancellation until shortly before arrival. If I end up arriving a day later, too bad but no real money "lost" in my view. I guess the value in ID90 tickets is there for this kind of approach. I can also see your point of view, believe me, I just thought it was kind of harsh to say it has no value.

[Lepo]

Apparently it's more of a Europe thing. Most major low costs in Europe like Ryanair/EasyJet/Norwegian/Wizz Air don't have ID/ZED agreements with other airlines. The only exceptions I remember are Germanwings and Vueling, but because they're part of Lufthansa Group and IAG respectively.

But if you think on a worldwide perspective there are quite someLCC with ID/ZED available.

Canada: WestJet
USA: Southwest, JetBlue, Frontier
South America: GOL, SkyAirline
Asia/Oceania: Jetstar, Flydubai, Tigerair

[ShamrockF]

It basically boils down to the fact it costs money to run a Zed arrangement and requires some administration expenses, time to co-ordinate deals etc. There's no incentive for them to do this when it's seen as an additional, unnecessary cost.

[Alpine Flyer]

Not retired, I just plan my vacation with a buffer day or maximum two on each end and usually plan travel via airports with scheduled traffic from multiple of the airlines that we have agreements with (not too hard to do, without detours mostly).

While that might work traveling as a couple or alone, it get's pretty nerve-wrecking with a family unless everyone is old and mature enough to be sent and wait alone and maybe even do part of the trip alone. It has admittedly become a lot easier with online ticket booking but even traveling alone I've ended up on the last jumpseat and prefer a bit more expensive booked staff tickets. A day here or there for flexibility is quite a lot if summer vacation is limited to two weeks. Airport fees are quite a big part of ticket costs here (and charged for SBY as well), which reduces the difference between SBY and confirmed.

[CaptainJim]

It basically boils down to the fact it costs money to run a Zed arrangement and requires some administration expenses, time to co-ordinate deals etc. There's no incentive for them to do this when it's seen as an additional, unnecessary cost.

I understand that but as I originally stated it is an excellent tax free salary incentive that would make everyone’s life easier. They still gain some extra revenue and they already have staff working in their own staff travel departments. Euro LOCO is just that crazy and very short sighted. Raising salaries over 100k only gives more money to the taxman.

There must be a more logical reason.

[TBSC]

In 4 years with ID travel available to me I've saved thousands of euros for myself and even traveling with friends. Recently I flew halfway around the world for €70 on a full service carrier and back in business for €200 (normal price €3800 or thereabouts).
There is the answer. A LCC have no interest to give it away for 70 but would have sold it to someone for 3800 or thereabouts.

[CaptainJim]

There is the answer. A LCC have no interest to give it away for 70 but would have sold it to someone for 3800 or thereabouts.

That’s not an answer. Its STANDBY! No airline would never give it away for free.

[NoelEvans]

... as I originally stated it is an excellent tax free salary incentive that would make everyone’s life easier. They still gain some extra revenue and they already have staff working in their own staff travel departments. Euro LOCO is just that crazy and very short sighted. Raising salaries over 100k only gives more money to the taxman.

...I understand that in at least one European country discounted staff travel is taxable.

[TBSC]

That’s not an answer. Its STANDBY! No airline would never give it away for free.

Well it would be quite hard to get a standby ticket e.g at Wizz Air where no such category exist. If there are no free seats left you can't book a ticket. If there are empty seats then your booking (be it positioning, christmas ticket, bonus ticket or any kind of company travel) is OK and confirmed. You learn to appreciate this when the average load factor reported is over 90%.

[giggitygiggity]

I understand that but there is no loss to either airline giving out standby tickets.

That's not true, there could easily be quite a large imbalance between loss of revenue...

For example. many would want a Virgin Atlantic/Easyjet travel swap. The Virgin guy could reasonbly commute on easyjet easyjet staff travel (upto 2 flights a week?) but for the easyjet guy, it would just be for a holiday maybe once a year on Virgin.

If the VA guy is using easyjet twice a week, that's potentially a massive loss in revenue at easyjet. Of course, staff travel swaps would probably account for most of those circumstances anyway but it would certainly be a net loss for easyjet.

I'm an easyjet captain and would of course love one of these schemes, our staff travel is pretty good tbf. You can often get confirmed tickets and if you book a standby, confirmed staff travel tickets are regularly released so it could possibly convert into a confirmed. Also, our confirmed staff travel tickets (EXACTLY the same price as a standby) are privy to EC261 compensation which is incredible tbh for a ticket that's £5+taxes.

In the US, a far larger number of pilots commute from their hometown to whatever major hub they've been shoved in so a better commuter scheme is more valuable there.

I realise that it's lovely to have reciprocal travel arrangements in place, but that kind of undermines the entire stratagy of low-cost, which is to disrupt/defeat the legacy carriers legacy.

[Denti]

I understand that but as I originally stated it is an excellent tax free salary incentive that would make everyone’s life easier.

That depends on country. In Germany it is not tax free in general, there is a personal tax break for discounted stuff (including all discounted things because of work), but if you go above that you have to pay taxes.

That said, i did enjoy staff travel with either direct reciprocal discount or ZED tickets all over the world, and especially so the chance to use business travel on longhaul flights as that makes longhaul flights bearable to begin with. Now working in an airline that has no deal with any other airline (we have internal staff travel though, both standby and confirmed bookings) i have to adjust there and search for normal tickets like anybody else in the general public, and that is no problem either.

[Intrance]

That's not true, there could easily be quite a large imbalance between loss of revenue...

For example. many would want a Virgin Atlantic/Easyjet travel swap. The Virgin guy could reasonbly commute on easyjet easyjet staff travel (upto 2 flights a week?) but for the easyjet guy, it would just be for a holiday maybe once a year on Virgin.

If the VA guy is using easyjet twice a week, that's potentially a massive loss in revenue at easyjet. Of course, staff travel swaps would probably account for most of those circumstances anyway but it would certainly be a net loss for easyjet.The point of standby tickets is that you are not going if there is no empty seat for you (jumpseat rides excluded)... How is there a loss in revenue if the seat is otherwise empty, or better put, not sold? In case of a jumpseat ride it is even extra revenue as you usually can't sell that seat (until one of the LCCs catches on to that idea :p).

[hunterboy]

How do certain ID90 travellers seem to avoid paying APD and PSC from the London terminals? In many cases that dwarfs the cost of the ticket that the airline receives.

[bringbackthe80s]

They don’t offer that (and many other things for that matter) because they do not care about employees one bit, not so hard to work out.

[CaptainJim]

The point of standby tickets is that you are not going if there is no empty seat for you (jumpseat rides excluded)... How is there a loss in revenue if the seat is otherwise empty, or better put, not sold? In case of a jumpseat ride it is even extra revenue as you usually can't sell that seat (until one of the LCCs catches on to that idea :p).
It seems to be a difficult concept for the LOCO pilots to grasp. Really they’re just trying to justify the reason that don’t have access to ZED fares by knocking them. I’m sure staff travel at Wizz Air and EasyJet is much better than ZED fares.

[Tinstaafl]

Working for a UK Oneworld airline I had:
* ID90 standby on any Oneworld flight
* Could buy ID90 tickets for multiple routes to my destination & return, and get a full refund for unused tickets when I got back. (We also had a BA reservations PC in our office so when it wasn't being used I could hop on and look at flights and predicted/historical loadings ;-) ).
* ZED confirmed seat with other carriers
* Applied to spouse/partner etc

Working for a US airline - also Oneworld - I have:

* Free standby travel on any company/company branded flight ie mainline + regional partners.
* 6 per year higher priority standby tickets (full route to destination, with even higher priority for connections)
​​​​​​* ZED standby on other carriers
* above applies to spouse/partner, kids, parents.
* Cockpit jumpseat/spare cabin seat with pretty much every US carrier. JS priorities apply to own company, wholly owned subsidiary, contractor, or other.


I really missed staff travel in the period between UK airline and US airline employment.

[rog747]

The whole point of Loco carriers was to keep costs down, so they have no interline agreements for staff or duty travel nor any agreements with legacy airlines for through ticketing/interlining baggage etc
Thus any staff travel on Loco is for in-house staff only.

The days of everyone helping each other out on staff travel and/or mutual aid is dwindling but some carriers are still very nice to staff - In the main BA TUI and Virgin still look after staff I find.

[giggitygiggity]

The point of standby tickets is that you are not going if there is no empty seat for you (jumpseat rides excluded)... How is there a loss in revenue if the seat is otherwise empty, or better put, not sold? In case of a jumpseat ride it is even extra revenue as you usually can't sell that seat (until one of the LCCs catches on to that idea :p).

I didn't say the seat would be empty. The commuter or holidayer will instead buy the ticket for a modest amount (hopefully still affordable as it's lowcost after all). For easyjet, nobody but operating/positioning crew can sit on a jumpseat so that wouldn't make any difference. If they did allow it, it would be £5 earned by the airline which would probably just about break even for the cost of fuel/time processing them.


It seems to be a difficult concept for the LOCO pilots to grasp. Really they’re just trying to justify the reason that don’t have access to ZED fares by knocking them. I’m sure staff travel at Wizz Air and EasyJet is much better than ZED fares.

I've got staff travel arrangements with 2 other major British airlines which is nice, but a hell of a lot more stressful when using rather than my companies internal scheme which usually involves confirmed tickets with the same rights as any other full fare paying passenger.

[sarah737]

That's not true, there could easily be quite a large imbalance between loss of revenue...

For example. many would want a Virgin Atlantic/Easyjet travel swap. The Virgin guy could reasonbly commute on easyjet easyjet staff travel (upto 2 flights a week?) but for the easyjet guy, it would just be for a holiday maybe once a year on Virgin.
....
I realise that it's lovely to have reciprocal travel arrangements in place, but that kind of undermines the entire stratagy of low-cost, which is to disrupt/defeat the legacy carriers legacy.

If your company pays, a modest fee, you can have access to myID tickets, there is no need for reciprocal arrangements. We have access by paying, without offering anything. The only reason you don’t have them is because easyJet refuses to pay for it.

Many years ago, I worked for easyJet and the “confirmed staff travel’, was nothing more than standby as you were the first one to be kicked off, in case of overbooking, without any rights whatsoever.
They was also no staff travel after retirement at easyJet.