The Red Poppy

[Prawn2king4]

Trouble is, at my age, your opinion tends to be regarded as a tad old fashioned … not to mention fossilized.

I disagree with the decision to include “all civilians affected by conflict or terrorism” in regard to the red poppy being used as an act of remembrance. To my mind, the poppy commemorates those who died actively fighting for their country (without regard to the political decisions that resulted in conflict).

However, I would be interested in the opinions of current members of the armed forces; the views of whom perhaps reflect more “up to date” thinking.

[OvertHawk]

I hear what you're saying, I think - It's to commemorate those who fought the good fight rather than those who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Trouble with that is - How do you differentiate between, for example, civilians who chose to stay in the cities and face the blitz in order to keep the country running or put out the fires vs conscripts who given any choice might not have been fighting at all? A victim of war is a victim of war.

For me - Remembrance is a personal thing. What it means to me is what it means to me. What it means to someone else is up to them and does not affect how i feel on the 11th day of the 11th month (or any other day for that matter) unless they are being openly disrespectful (which i don't think this is).

There are enough arguments going on in the world right now - I don't see the need for this one.

All the best!
OH

[Chugalug2]

No argument from me, other than about the ever earlier Poppy Twitcher sightings each year. The British Legion, who administer the Poppy Appeal, declare on their site that on Remembrance Sunday:-

Starting at 11am, the service honours the service and sacrifice of our Armed Forces community, the British and Commonwealth veterans, the Allies that fought alongside us and the civilian servicemen and women involved in the two World Wars and later conflicts.

As to the Poppy Appeal itself:-
Poppies are worn as a show of support for the Armed Forces community.

Their Fund so their call to my mind, though I once replied to a German Air Stewardess's question as to, "Why are you wearing that flower?", that it was to remember the dead of all wars. Upon reflection that still works for me, though it was simply being politick at the time. :ok:

You pays your money and you makes your choice...

https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/remembrance/

[golfbananajam]

I agree with the sentiment of OvertHawk , for me the poppy is s sign of remembrance for those that gave their lives for the country, be they civilian, military or whatever. While it may have started as a way of remembering war dead, we've been in far too many conflicts that have not been "war" that we're in danger of losing sight of those who've given their lives since WWII. Personally, I use it as a day to remember friends and colleagues who perished in both NI and FI.

The only thing I don't like, is the white poppy

[weemonkey]

"Remembrance is a personal thing."

Indeed. Some of us may wish to remember their fallen comrades away from the mass herd instinct (and those hypocrites that are politicians) who wear their poppy as nothing more the dress code of the day.

[Davef68]

I've always worn mine to particulary commemorate my great grandfather, a soldier who died in WW1 and my uncle, a merchant seaman lost due to enemy action in WW2. Later conflicts tend to be on anniversaries rather than 11/11

But I've stood at war memorials which honour both service personnel, civillians killed on active duty (Merchant Navy, Fire services etc) and civillians killled as a result of enemy action (local air raids).

What I do find distasteful is both the 'oppy police' demanding everyones wears a poppy, and the obvious placement of poppies on everyone appearing on TV shows to prevent them

[Tashengurt]

I think it's fair to designate the poppy as commemorating all those who fell in conflicts. Sacrifice after all, has many faces.
There was a buffoon on another site recently ranting that only those who'd been shot at were true veterans.
A quick check showed he'd been on 31sqn during GW1 and had been on the receiving end of s few Scuds. About the same as your average Israeli Grandmother then.

[NutLoose]

Have a heart Tash, he was on 31 Sqn, so he should be pittied. :E

[treadigraph]

Poppies have appeared on lamp posts around my area in the last few days - a month in advance. I appreciate the council's desire to ensure people recognise and respect Remembrance Day but as with Christmas it is creeping slowly forward and dilutes focus on the day itself.

[NutLoose]

"Remembrance is a personal thing."

Indeed. Some of us may wish to remember their fallen comrades away from the mass herd instinct (and those hypocrites that are politicians) who wear their poppy as nothing more the dress code of the day.

And the press/ newsreaders/ general dogbodies pertaining to be experts etc who get berated on TV if they don't, that is sort of wrong and degrades the meaning behind it, to have a producer slap one on them to be seen to conform, loses the meaing behind it all..

[Tashengurt]

Poppies have appeared on lamp posts around my area in the last few days - a month in advance. I appreciate the council's desire to ensure people recognise and respect Remembrance Day but as with Christmas it is creeping slowly forward and dilutes focus on the day itself.

Everything is too early and too much. Events lose something through over exposure.

[DODGYOLDFART]

I am always surprised about how picky we can be when remembrance or commemoration is involved. One such is the seeming lack of appreciation for the guys and girls on the ground who kept the Spits and Hurricanes in the air during the Battle of Britain and gave their lives in the process. Not all were in the military and I am reminded in particular of two GPO engineers who were killed whilst reconnecting the vital telephone line between a Battle of Britain airfield to Fighter Command HQ. I will happily wear my poppy for them and all the others who gave their lives in order to stop me having to live under the Nazi cosh.

[langleybaston]

who are/were
............................ the civilian servicemen and women ...................

Is that not a contradiction in terms?
Or is it police, fire, ambulance, RWVS, Merchant Navy, Boy Scouts and Girl Guide messengers, ?

[Army Mover]

As far as I'm concerned, I wear a Poppy to remember all those who died in armed conflict throughout the ages. It is not a political gesture as far as I'm concerned, just something to focus my mind on and think of all those who have passed on in such terrible times.

[Bill Macgillivray]

Army Mover,

I have to agree with you, I wear a Poppy (generally from 4 Nov.) for the same reasons and as a mark of respect for my Father & Grandfather (both world wars) and for all those who have given their lives for this Country in war-time, be they civilian or military (NB - for this Country!). We should ignore the politicians (by and large) and certainly the TV "people" who seem to compete in who is first! As for White poppies - my only comment is that (at the moment!) we are a free country - for reasons go to Line 1 !

Bill

[LoeyDaFrog]

Alongside my former service, I've also been active with the Legion for a fair few years. There is only one 'rule' and that is too wear your poppy with pride.
​Everything else is a personal choice.

[Jackonicko]

I'm way out of step. I wear mine in remembrance of all those who fell (especially those in the fighting services who were killed in action) but also as a sign of respect to all of those who volunteered and served in pretty well any capacity - even if they were lucky enough to survive the experience. Both of my Grandfathers fought on the Western Front in the Great War, and both survived it, though being gassed (and wounded badly enough to be hospitalised about a dozen times) meant that the remainder of my paternal grandfather's life was short and painful and a Military Medal was no real compensation, and I wear my Poppy in memory of them. And of my Dad, who lost his front teeth when his Lib crash-landed on Sumburgh, but who then lived for 64 years after VE Day, seeing action in several small wars thereafter!

And because it's ok for the Poppy to mean different things to different wearers, we really don't need white ones.

[Tankertrashnav]

we really don't need white ones.

They always puzzle me. I have never seen a satisfactory explanation as to why they have appeared in recent years. I suspect that the wearer is indicating the occupation of some spurious moral high ground, but I may be mistaken. I do agree that the red ones are appearing far too early - 1st November is plenty early enough for me.

[NutLoose]

They are for peace and to show one is a pacifist I believe whilst still showing your support and respecting those that paid the ultimate sacrifice.

[megan]

Why are they selling poppies mother, selling poppies in town today?
The poppies child are flowers of love for the men who marched away.
But why have they chosen a poppy mother, why not a beautiful rose?
Because my child, men fought and died in fields where the poppies grow.
But why are the poppies so red mother, why are the poppies so red?
Red is the colour of blood, my child, the blood that our soldiers shed.
The heart of the poppy is black mother, why does it have to be black?
Black, my child, is the symbol of grief, for the men who never came back
But why, mother dear, are you crying so?
Your tears are like winter rain.
My tears are for you, my child, for the world is forgetting again.

[Bergerie1]

I wear my poppy for my grandfather and two great uncles who were killed at Ypres. I wear my poppy for my father who survived a Japanese prisoner of war camp. I wear my poppy for all those who were killed on both sides, whether combatants or non-combatants. I wear my poppy for all these whose lives have been torn apart by war. And, above all, I wear my poppy to remind us all never to do it again.

And, no, I am not a pacifist. I am too old now, but if I was younger, I would still fight for peace.

[Mead Pusher]

I wear a poppy to remember all of the fallen in conflict, regardless of how they were killed or what side they were on. I'm happy for the donation to benefit our own veterans with the RBL, but the act of remembrance itself is much wider than that for me. When I was in Afghanistan we held a remembrance ceremony every week, and the names of the fallen for that week were read out regardless of the flag they served under. The Canadians also use a poppy for remembrance, so it's not just us, and they also did some nifty poppy patches that were ideal for PCS - perhaps the RBL could consider that idea.

I think remembrance is more important than ever in a world where hatred and suspicion seems to be growing, but I fear that the real meaning of "we will remember them" and "lest we forget" are being lost.

[Tankertrashnav]

They are for peace and to show one is a pacifist I believe whilst still showing your support and respecting those that paid the ultimate sacrifice.

Yes I guess so, but I suspect that a large number of those red poppy wearers who did fight are now pacifists too, having experienced the harsh reality of war. "Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori?" - it certainly isn't. I sometimes have an uneasy feeling that I have had an easy ride in this respect. I had an enjoyable time in the RAF and look back on it with pride, but then I reflect that ultimately my job was to go out and kill my country's enemies, or be killed by them, and I thank goodness that I was never put to the test.

[Prawn2king4]

Thank you for your thoughts. Illuminating. On deeper reflection I think I am associating the red poppy solely with the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior – a tribute that if enacted today causes me to wonder if the gesture would reflect a wider field.

Apropos nothing in particular, I would recommend George Macdonald Fraser’s (yes, the author of the Flashman series) book, “Quartered Safe Out Here”.

[TLDNMCL]

As a previous poster said, remembrance for him is a personal thing, which I also agree with. A lady from overseas once asked "Why so many people wearing flowers?" It was explained to her, and she declared that she was going to buy one too, which I thought was lovely. We all have our reasons.

[falcon900]

Going back to the question posed at the start of the thread, I too would be of a fairly liberal disposition regarding broadening the scope of those remembered by the wearing of the poppy. What I would be less liberal about however would be any attempt to broaden the claims on the funds raised by the poppy appeal. There is little enough to go around military charities as things stand, and any dilution would be unwelcome.

[Prangster]

Going back to the question posed at the start of the thread, I too would be of a fairly liberal disposition regarding broadening the scope of those remembered by the wearing of the poppy. What I would be less liberal about however would be any attempt to broaden the claims on the funds raised by the poppy appeal. There is little enough to go around military charities as things stand, and any dilution would be unwelcome.

On a warming June morning in 2016 I stood below Polygon wood with a battlefield guide who casually mentioned that between the main road which I think was the A17 and the treeline on a 2 thousand yard front there were an estimated 7000 bodies still lying in the soil. I bent and picked a poppy truly enriched by the blood of man. I keep that June morning in mind every time someone denigrates the vast sacrifices made. Wear it with pride and remember what we are honoring individual courage and sacrifice not political stupidity I fully concur that funds should support the service charities only