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kit344
15th Oct 2019, 23:36
I'm trying to find records of an incident in the early 80s it was probably 82 or 83, but could have been 81

I think it was a Hawk, possibly Red Arrows, en route to Lossiemouth or Kinloss

I think it was a bird strike or wire strike at low level.

I think the rear seat occupant ejected, but the pilot landed.

That's all I can remember, but I haven't been able to find a report of the incident.

Help please.

Darwinism
16th Oct 2019, 01:57
Hi Kit344, I was Lossie air traffic when it happened and seem to remember it being a Buccaneer which came back sans nav. Pretty sure it was a fairly massive birdstrike after which the nav lost comms with the pilot and decided to leave the seemingly out of control jet much to the pilot's surprise.

ShyTorque
16th Oct 2019, 07:51
There was also an incident in a Bulldog where the aircraft could not be recovered from a spin during a dual sortie. The QFI ordered the student to bail out (JUMP, JUMP, JUMP) but the latter opened the (slide back) canopy in the normal way, rather than using the canopy jettison lever. He then jumped out. The aircraft then came out of the spin. The QFI flew it back and landed.

clarkieboy
16th Oct 2019, 08:44
The Buccaneer involved was XV863, it was late 83 or 84, I think 84. Nav ejected after a birdstrike which broke the canopy and the blast screen. It was on 16 at the time, I think, landed at Lossie.
I only remember because I replaced the blast screen and repaired the fuel tanks where the bits of canopy went through.
It, and me, ended up on the OCU, CC was its code in 85.
Hope that helps.
Cheers.

Fareastdriver
16th Oct 2019, 09:07
In India on Shiksha in 1963 a Javelin overpitched and went into a spin. The navigator ejected, the recoil from the seat pushed the nose down which caused the aircraft to auto-recover and be flown back to the airfield.

mcdhu
16th Oct 2019, 12:47
Didn't an Arrows (Gnat) back seater eject after a wirestrike during a practice in Scotland some time ago?

cheers,
mcdhu

megan
17th Oct 2019, 03:38
Some pilots ejected and the aircraft landed them selves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M2XZEYqIpQ

RAAF Mirage in Darwin. Compressor stall and loss of thrust in circuit, Ejection 1,000 feet 200 knots. Aircraft even remembered to pull the drag chute. Now in museum with remarkable few dents, which I suspect were caused by the recovery operations.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x453/mirage_a3_36_photo_via_sid_mitchell_a_2_sized_11723bd78dd9ea 3b197d3fe938e350f67e6ed8cd.jpg

chevvron
17th Oct 2019, 08:26
I remember reading in 'RAF Flying Review' about a Hunter (single seat) belonging to the RNAF; the pilot ejected (engine failure I think) and the aircraft, trimmed for straight and level; actually landed on its home airfield.

India Four Two
17th Oct 2019, 08:53
I remember reading in 'RAF Flying Review'...

Dating yourself there, old chap! ;)

dixi188
17th Oct 2019, 11:13
I knew a Belgium AF Starfighter pilot who ejected on short finals due to a fire warning and saw his aircraft land on the runway and stop in the barrier. No damage.

Also saw the F4 nav eject in 1986 at a Bournemouth airshow when the left tyre burst on take off. The aircraft got airborne from the grass and landed safely at Boscombe Down. I think a lot of the crowd thought it was part of the show.

chevvron
17th Oct 2019, 11:57
Dating yourself there, old chap! ;)
Obviously you remember it too.
Never the same when it became 'Flying Review International'.

Fareastdriver
17th Oct 2019, 13:52
There was some naval jet fighter, sans pilot, that was left staring at the approach to Gan's runway when the fuel calculations went wrong.

old,not bold
17th Oct 2019, 16:35
My mother, married to a Lancaster pilot, told anyone who cared to listen that she was told by him that a battle-damaged US 4-engine bomber flew by itself all the way across England during WWII, to crash from fuel starvation either in Wales or the in the Irish sea, after its crew had decided to abandon ship over Norfolk.

I never found out if it was true. But I bet someone can tell us.

kit344
17th Oct 2019, 20:17
Didn't an Arrows (Gnat) back seater eject after a wirestrike during a practice in Scotland some time ago?

cheers,
mcdhu

I think this may be the one that I am thinking of, but it was 81 or later, so Red Arrows would have been operating Hawk, not Gnat.

I think it was in the vicinity of Loch Ness, during a transit to Lossiemouth or Kinloss, during the airshow season.

I was at Lossiemouth from January 81 to January 84


​​​​

LOMCEVAK
17th Oct 2019, 20:58
The Red Arrows incident was a Hawk heading northerly up the Great Glen. It was a wire strike at the southern end of Loch Ness and I think the aircraft may have diverted into Inverness. The pilot was a friend and later a squadron colleague of mine.

The Buccaneer at Lossie was a Laarbruch aircraft operating against Garvie Island. It was a high speed (500+ kts) birdstrike which shattered the canopy. The nav thought that the pilot had been incapacitated as his head appeared lowered, there was too much noise for voice comms and the aircraft started to descend so he ejected. I watched it land at Lossiemouth! Also, the same pilot had another interesting incident when he was on the OCU at Honington. At the start of the take-off roll the aircraft did a very sharp turn (nosewheel steering problem) and departed off the edge of the runway with full power pointing towards the HASs so the nav ejected. One pilot, two navs jumped out; now that must be a record!

kit344
18th Oct 2019, 21:07
The Red Arrows incident was a Hawk heading northerly up the Great Glen. It was a wire strike at the southern end of Loch Ness and I think the aircraft may have diverted into Inverness. The pilot was a friend and later a squadron colleague of mine.

The Buccaneer at Lossie was a Laarbruch aircraft operating against Garvie Island. It was a high speed (500+ kts) birdstrike which shattered the canopy. The nav thought that the pilot had been incapacitated as his head appeared lowered, there was too much noise for voice comms and the aircraft started to descend so he ejected. I watched it land at Lossiemouth! Also, the same pilot had another interesting incident when he was on the OCU at Honington. At the start of the take-off roll the aircraft did a very sharp turn (nosewheel steering problem) and departed off the edge of the runway with full power pointing towards the HASs so the nav ejected. One pilot, two navs jumped out; now that must be a record!

Thanks very much, that fits with my memory of the incident.

Please could you try to point me towards the accident report, the aircraft registration, or the date ?

I searched fairly thoroughly before I posted this thread a few days ago.

Bonkey
19th Oct 2019, 08:08
Thanks very much, that fits with my memory of the incident.

Please could you try to point me towards the accident report, the aircraft registration, or the date ?

I searched fairly thoroughly before I posted this thread a few days ago.

I think the aircraft serial is stated in a reply early on up-thread,

sablatnic
20th Oct 2019, 10:00
I remember reading in 'RAF Flying Review' about a Hunter (single seat) belonging to the RNAF; the pilot ejected (engine failure I think) and the aircraft, trimmed for straight and level; actually landed on its home airfield.

I don't know if it happened i the RNAF, but it did in the RDAF.

chevvron
20th Oct 2019, 10:57
I don't know if it happened i the RNAF, but it did in the RDAF.
Yes I could be wrong; it was over 50 years ago I read it! (that's my excuse)

Wig Wag
20th Oct 2019, 19:38
'One pilot, two navs jumped out; now that must be a record!'

He affectionately acquired the nickname 'Skids' thereafter!

possel
24th Oct 2019, 10:45
The Red Arrows incident was a Hawk heading northerly up the Great Glen. It was a wire strike at the southern end of Loch Ness and I think the aircraft may have diverted into Inverness. The pilot was a friend and later a squadron colleague of mine.
They did indeed divert to Inverness. The technician in the back seat suffered serious injuries after his ejection and (IIRC) was invalided out, receiving no compensation as he had not been commanded to eject.

It was good to work for such a logical and compassionate employer. :(

Haraka
24th Oct 2019, 15:57
Some might recall the incident when a Navigator ( who had already lost an eye in a previous Canberra incident) found himslelf skidding alone and inverted down the main runway at Bedford in a Hawk ,following a pilot ejection. IIRC his bone dome was ground down to the top of his skull in the process. Amazingly he carried on flying regardless and I last saw him at Wyton on Canberras in the late 80's .

DaveReidUK
24th Oct 2019, 18:00
They did indeed divert to Inverness. The technician in the back seat suffered serious injuries after his ejection and (IIRC) was invalided out, receiving no compensation as he had not been commanded to eject.

When you've hit a wire at 40' AGL, I'd have thought that banging out was a fairly prudent course of action.

chevvron
25th Oct 2019, 03:42
Some might recall the incident when a Navigator ( who had already lost an eye in a previous Canberra incident) found himslelf skidding alone and inverted down the main runway at Bedford in a Hawk ,following a pilot ejection. IIRC his bone dome was ground down to the top of his skull in the process. Amazingly he carried on flying regardless and I last saw him at Wyton on Canberras in the late 80's .
Never heard of that one; they never had a Hawk on the fleet at Bedford so it must have been a visitor.

DaveReidUK
25th Oct 2019, 06:38
Never heard of that one; they never had a Hawk on the fleet at Bedford so it must have been a visitor.

The Hawk was acting as a camera/chase aircraft for the A&AEE's Britannia, which was circuit-bashing at Thurleigh as part of wake turbulence trials. The Hawk lost control in the Brit's wake, just over the threshold, and flipped inverted.

Ironically, the pilot, who did eject (sideways), received severe injuries whereas the nav escaped with a few cuts and bruises.

Wake turbulence caused Hawk crash (https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1984/1984%20-%200205.html)

wiggy
25th Oct 2019, 07:07
Never heard of that one; they never had a Hawk on the fleet at Bedford so it must have been a visitor.

It did indeed happen as DRUK describes.

As a result post crash images of the Hawk crop up quite frequently in presentations/lectures on the dangers of wake vortex encounters.

Rory57
25th Oct 2019, 16:53
My mother, married to a Lancaster pilot, told anyone who cared to listen that she was told by him that a battle-damaged US 4-engine bomber flew by itself all the way across England during WWII, to crash from fuel starvation either in Wales or the in the Irish sea, after its crew had decided to abandon ship over Norfolk.

I never found out if it was true. But I bet someone can tell us.

Possibly this B24 that crashed in Herefordshire? Bomber Crash at St Margaret?s Common, Christmas Day 1944, St Margarets, 1944, Ewyas Lacy Study Group (http://www.ewyaslacy.org.uk/St-Margarets/Bomber-Crash-at-St-Margaret-s-Common-Christmas-Day-1944/1944/gc_stm_2002)

possel
25th Oct 2019, 18:29
When the Hawk happened, I was doing a BoI at Wyton on the Canberra which had been wheels up at Bedford! I can still recall the navs name in that Hawk - he had a camera on his lap!

DaveReidUK
25th Oct 2019, 19:13
Possibly this B24 that crashed in Herefordshire? Bomber Crash at St Margaret?s Common, Christmas Day 1944, St Margarets, 1944, Ewyas Lacy Study Group (http://www.ewyaslacy.org.uk/St-Margarets/Bomber-Crash-at-St-Margaret-s-Common-Christmas-Day-1944/1944/gc_stm_2002)

Though according to that account, and Joe Baugher's, the crew actually baled out over the French/Belgian border before the aircraft flew itself over the Channel and finally came down in Herefs.

"Bold Venture III" was Ford-built B-24J 42-50675.

sandiego89
28th Oct 2019, 14:52
I always liked this F-14 story and picture.

Eject on a familiarization hop | Tales | F-14 Tomcat (http://www.f-14association.com/tales/eject-on-a-familiarization-hop.html)

Lesson being don't hang on to the black and yellow handle to adjust yourself in the seat.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x421/f_14_a34962c20fa052067c7b1473a1cd62f038c5f6ac.jpg

k3k3
29th Oct 2019, 00:08
In 1979 a Hunter had an engine failure, the pilot pointed the aircraft out to sea only to see it turn and fly inland eventually skidding along a street in Tintagel.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/148721

India Four Two
29th Oct 2019, 06:37
... and neatly parked itself between two houses!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/300x324/iu_10_84ed4c9d3f7513981de2a86c95cdf0817c4cb2fd.jpeg

DaveReidUK
29th Oct 2019, 08:09
Long and fascinating account by the pilot.

Bagheera S
1st Nov 2019, 16:51
Didn't an Arrows (Gnat) back seater eject after a wirestrike during a practice in Scotland some time ago?

cheers,
mcdhu
It definitely happened to a Gnat as twenty five plus years ago I briefly worked with the chap who rode the seat;- he was ground crew and somewhat embarrassed by the circumstances. I canít remember if it was a Reds related event or not.

possel
1st Nov 2019, 17:14
It definitely happened to a Gnat as twenty five plus years ago I briefly worked with the chap who rode the seat;- he was ground crew and somewhat embarrassed by the circumstances. I canít remember if it was a Reds related event or not.
I can't say it never happened to a Gnat, but they were retired by 1979 (which is a lot more than 25 years) and the Reds event along Loch Ness was definitely a Hawk, as above.

Bagheera S
1st Nov 2019, 18:50
I can't say it never happened to a Gnat, but they were retired by 1979 (which is a lot more than 25 years) and the Reds event along Loch Ness was definitely a Hawk, as above.

Red Arrows, 1976, Gnat XR987, pilot Dudley Carvell (Red4), Sergeant Terry Whelan ejected during an air test following an aileron rerig, when he was unable to talk to the pilot due to intercom failure, and believed Dudley had lost control while on approach(?). Terry made a successful touchdown under the silk, while Dudley made a successful landing on the Dunlopís. Not sure of the precise date or location.

I worked along side Terry in about 1993-4.

Firestreak
2nd Nov 2019, 05:30
Two other incidents from years ago, apologies if my memories arenít spot on!

Whilst going through the Lightning OCU at Colt, a Canberra landed with a big hole behind the cockpit, ejection seat gun tube sticking out of said hole. The story was it was a student crew carrying out slow speed/stalling practice. During this they entered cloud, nav not too happy so departed.

A TWU Hawk (Brawdy I think) was doing some sort of affil off the east coast with I believe a fighter controller in the back (W**** P******?). Without warning, rear seater departed, after some persuasion, he did admit he might have been fiddling with the seat handle.

Wander00
2nd Nov 2019, 14:14
Firestreak, if that was a T4, 1966-67 ish that would have been the 360 aircraft from Watton when the observer(RN) ejected when a practice EFATO (again) went TU. Sadly the observer, Lt Norman Lake RN, was killed. Different aircraft on the fleet had different hatch fits (frangible or solid) and different hatch switchery. Norman ejected through a solid hatch and was killed. Many years later I was OC Admin at Wyton when similarly a practice EFATO went wrong and the station commander and the instructor and navigator were killed.. The similarity of the two accidents was chilling.

Firestreak
3rd Nov 2019, 04:07
Wander00, can’t be the same incident, the one I referred to would be late 68, early 69. Coincidentally, the pilot of that incident and the CO of Wyton were QFIs at Linton at the same time.

Pontius Navigator
3rd Nov 2019, 07:01
F4 in the States, 1960s, span in from high altitude zoom climb. Pilots couldn't recover and banged out. It pancaked on the desert floor.

USMC F4 with PD radar also landed intact on beach in North Vietnam. By the time a strike came to destroy it there was no trace and the Russians had a PD radar.

Wander00
3rd Nov 2019, 15:49
Firestreak - OK thanks

4mastacker
25th Dec 2019, 23:36
They did indeed divert to Inverness. The technician in the back seat suffered serious injuries after his ejection and (IIRC) was invalided out, receiving no compensation as he had not been commanded to eject.

It was good to work for such a logical and compassionate employer. :(


I've just come across this thread. I don't think the technician was as seriously injured as you indicate. He walked into Supply Sqn a couple of days after the incident to sort out his loan card for his flying clothing. He was also the only member of the Sgts Mess entitled to wear the MB tie - a ticket to many free beers. I believe he was still on the Reds when I left Scampton some time afterwards.

The aircraft involved was XX227. I remember that one quite well as my boss tasked me with raising the write-off paperwork for the damage to the aircraft and Scottish Hydro's powerlines - t'was an eye-watering amount.